Thermal Accumulator by phattpiggie

[General Disaster]

Specific heat is an extensive property. It extends with the quantity of matter.

I've no formal scientific education so I may be wrong but I think you're describing 'heat capacity' which is quantity related, rather than 'specific heat' which is unit-mass based instead.

ZrO2 being denser than boro, there is more mass in a Zirconia filled head than a boro one.

Which is why I was asking if density had a direct relationship with specific heat or whether it had a separate effect of it's own, not asking what density means.
So I assume that density has little direct relationship to specific heat, as you've only used it to calculate the mass, and used specific heat to calculate the energy?

Also keep in mind that specific heat value depends on the measurement protocol and results vary depending on the technic used.

Um, are you really sure about that?
The unit of specific heat is Joules per gram per degree Celsius. All of those three values are absolutes. The weight doesn't change (unless you leave the surface of the planet), the energy change is a set amount, the temperature is the temperature - how can these vary? What different protocols would give different values?

The point of specific heat is it's not conditional to anything but those three absolute values, there's only one specific heat for a particular substance I believe, you don't see a number of different specific heat values for one thing, that I've ever noticed. Granted certain parameters have to be fixed or within a range, such as temperature and pressure, but this is the same as for most standard attributes, like B.pt and M.pt, and many (most?) other physical attributes, it's just part of the definition of these properties of a substance.
"... technic used." - not heard that word before, did you mean technology? Or something else?

Let's do the math.

Must we?

What does that means ?

Pretty much what I described with words instead of numbers? Or were you saying something different?
But the numbers don't do a great deal, in the sense that they're simply saying there's a difference and which one has the greater capacity to store heat. The figures themselves are pretty abstract though and wouldn't represent reality in a ball-head.

We can do the math for rubies and SiC if you want.

Why? It would show what we already know in the sense that the higher the specific heat (or heat capacity) then the more energy needed for an equivalent temperature rise. But as I understand that's what specific heat means in essence, and the calculations only show the relative proportions. I'm not really sure what they are showing here that says more than saying in words which compound has higher specific heat?

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

I've no formal scientific education so I may be wrong but I think you're describing 'heat capacity' which is quantity related, rather than 'specific heat' which is unit-mass based instead.

Yeah you are right. Translation issues I guess. My bad.

Um, are you really sure about that?
The unit of specific heat is Joules per gram per degree Celsius. All of those three values are absolutes. The weight doesn't change (unless you leave the surface of the planet), the energy change is a set amount, the temperature is the temperature - how can these vary? What different protocols would give different values?

Look at this data page :

Properties: Alumina - Aluminium Oxide - Al2O3 - A Refractory Ceramic Oxide

Aluminium Oxide (Al2O3) or alumina is one of the most versatile of refractory ceramic oxides and finds use in a wide range of applications.

www.azom.com

It gives a minimal value and a maximal value for specific heat. And the range is rather broad...

The wikipedia explains why it is not a fixed value but a function.

Why? It would show what we already know in the sense that the higher the specific heat (or heat capacity) then the more energy needed for an equivalent temperature rise. But as I understand that's what specific heat means in essence, and the calculations only show the relative proportions. I'm not really sure what they are showing here that says more than saying in words which compound has higher specific heat?

ZrO2 has a lower heat capacity than boro yet the same amount of balls will be able store more heat in zirc than in boro. Why ?
Because of density of material and mass of the thermal matrix.

 

[Electrofever]

Brings me back to heat and mass transfer class 15 years ago and the dozens of different dimensionless numbers

I totally agree Nice to hear about the physics behind all that !
But I am aware that reality must be much more complexe with many interactions, radiance, conduction, add some convection.

 

[Radwin Bodnic]

Or were you saying something different?
But the numbers don't do a great deal, in the sense that they're simply saying there's a difference and which one has the greater capacity to store heat.

Zirconia has a lower capacity to store heat than boro. But being denser, the same thermal matrix will hold more mass. So the same thermal matrix will store more heat with ZrO2 balls instead of boro despite the lower heat capacity of ZrO2.

 

[Pcloudy]

Zirconia is just zirconium dioxide. Two oxygen atoms for one zirconium atom arranged in a cristalline structure. Together they form a ceramic.


Specific heat is an extensive property. It extends with the quantity of matter.
ZrO2 being denser than boro, there is more mass in a Zirconia filled head than a boro one.

Reminder : heat capacity is the quantity of energy (Joules) you need to apply to a material to raise its temperature up 1°K.
In extension it is also the energy released by the material to lower its temp down 1°K.

Also keep in mind that specific heat value depends on the measurement protocol and results vary depending on the technic used.

Let's do the math.

ZrO2 :
• specific heat capacity : 420 J/(k•kg)
• volumetric mass : 5,85 g/cm3

Borosilicate :
• specific heat capacity : 830 J/(k•kg)
• volumetric mass : 2,23 g/cm3

Let's assume a head filled with 100 x 3mm balls. (R = 1,5 mm = 0,15 cm)
Total balls volume = 100 (4/3 x π x 0,15^3) = 1,41 cm3.

Balls mass with boro = 1,41 x 2,23 = 3,14 g = 0,00314 kg
Balls mass with ZrO2 = 1,41 x 5,85 = 8,25 g = 0,00825 kg

Now imagine room temp is 20°C and the TA head is cold. You the balls at around 220°C to vape your bowl. You need 200°K more. To reach this temp :
• ZrO2 balls need 420 x 0,00825 x 200 = 693 J
• boro balls need 830 x 0,00314 x 200 = 521 J

What does that means ?
To get to the same temp, ZrO2 balls will need more torching (longer or bigger flame) than boro.
But because it has stored more energy ZrO2 will take longer to cool down, releasing more energy than boro.

We can do the math for rubies and SiC if you want.

Hell yeah I want the math for rubies and sic! Math rules. No sarcasm here, I very much would like to at least see the final outcome of the sic and rubies compared to the other two.

 

[General Disaster]

It gives a minimal value and a maximal value for specific heat. And the range is rather broad...

The wikipedia explains why it is not a fixed value but a function.

Interesting, I usually see only one value in general on the occasion I may look something up. What are the different criteria for the minima and maxima? I've seen different values for different temperature ranges, where I presume the properties of the material changes over the range to a significant degree. Is this what you mean? I wouldn't think so from that data sheet you linked to, but it's unclear what the range of values results from, different types of measurement? Some other condition changing? Or is it different molecular structures?

So if I understand correctly, the density is indeed a separate factor in how much energy the material can hold for a particular temperature?
So in this case, the zirc oxide takes more energy because it's much higher density outweighs it's lower specific heat?
And if zirc oxide and boro had the same densitty then it would be the boro than would hold more energy per degree? (assuming same volume of material)

Zirconia has a lower capacity to store heat than boro. But being denser, the same thermal matrix will hold more mass. So the same thermal matrix will store more heat with ZrO2 balls instead of boro despite the lower heat capacity of ZrO2.

Huh! I should have read further!
Thanks! That's good to know, I was missing that piece of the picture!

 

[n3hemiah]

Hi all! Coming from the Tempest and considering getting a TA - what do I need to know? Should I get the TA3 or 4?

 

[coolbreeze]

Hi all! Coming from the Tempest and considering getting a TA - what do I need to know? Should I get the TA3 or 4?

TA4 if you plan to switch balls out occasionally, otherwise the 3's great. Look into a Scruffy Woofers stand on IG and a thick glass or steel-lined wood stem or WPA. Most use a kitchen torch but a Firefox is plenty sufficient.

To heat I spin slowly in the outer flame mid-cap until I see orange in the flame, then I move to the tip and heat that with the inner flame until it's cherried. Let it cool until the orange is gone, test with cigar puffs, have at it!

It's easy to get excellent results, they're really fantastic vapes.

 

[Alligator427]

Received some china glass. WPA glass is quite thick and fit well with the TA3. I hope it will not explode on my face with heat. I will test that later, 'cause it is too early here for a hit.

 

[Shit Snacks]

WPA glass is quite thick and fit well with the TA3. I hope it will not explode on my face with heat

Haha there is no danger of that it is good quality although I'm not sure even a low quality one would do that lol heat the tip!

 

[Timps27]

Been enjoying TA on this K Haring rig dry lately, tasty and cool.

https://imgur.com/a/RKjd7uk

 

[Alligator427]

wpa work well. I don't burn my fingers even after the second hit. Recycler from samlglass work well : good airflow, better cooling thant excepted (I can use the B1 without problem), enough filtering and better flavor. Could just be a little bite thicker and have a longer and curver neck to have more distance between my face and the hot part of the vaporizers. I order yesteday a new ashcatcher for that.
Is there a notice somewhere to show how to replace the balls in the TA3 ? I would like to try zirconia balls, because I feel that I have better results with the tempest for the same amount of plant.

 

[Timps27]

Is there a notice somewhere to show how to replace the balls in the TA3 ?

The screen inside the threaded end of the cap holds them in, thread the screen out anti-clockwise, dump the balls/replace, thread retention screen clockwise back in place.

 

[Shit Snacks]

Could just be a little bite thicker and have a longer and curver neck to have more distance between my face and the hot part of the vaporizers. I order yesteday a new ashcatcher for that.

I would recommend a simple s-shaped dropdown adapter instead of an ash catcher personally, also be advised when you add more to a rig like that it could affect the airflow and function, I always found it worked better without a drop down unfortunately, but it did still work well enough, but not sure ash catcher would?

 

[Alligator427]

I would recommend a simple s-shaped dropdown adapter instead of an ash catcher personally, also be advised when you add more to a rig like that it could affect the airflow and function, I always found it worked better without a drop down unfortunately, but it did still work well enough, but not sure ash catcher would?

Usually, I use this ash catcher that is nice (v3):

Adaptateur De Verre De Tuyau Mâle De 14 Mm Femelle Catcher De Cendre D'eau Bong Dab Dab Rig Accessoire Différentes Formes Du $9.02 | DHgate

Acheter adaptateur de verre de tuyau mâle de 14 mm femelle catcher de cendre d'eau bong dab dab rig accessoire différentes formes matériel en ligne au prix de gros de la Chine fiable pipes pour fumer fournisseur - osgree sur DHgate. Livraison rapide et économies garanties !

fr.dhgate.com

But there is no "dropdown" function.
I ordered this one :

Passthrough Anna Pelldair 14 mm - Katalyzer

Ce Passthrough en verre ajoute un appel d'air ("kick hole") sur votre système de vaporisation. Peut aussi servir de "ash catcher" (filtre à cendres).

lacentralevapeur.com

I will see if it is working well with my glass.
Is there a dropdown better (and cheaper) than another ? I ask that, because the one from samlglass is expensiver than other on dhgate (20$ vs 5$ more or less)

 

[Shit Snacks]

Is there a dropdown better (and cheaper) than another ? I ask that, because the one from samlglass is expensiver than other on dhgate (20$ vs 5$ more or less)

Oh, yeah, I wouldn't go to them for that, vgoodiez actually has them, but from DHgate I have these:

https://www.dhgate.com/product/tkl/890355429.html?invitationCode=ff8080814637ba5e01465ab2a6cb3557|-|890355429

You have to buy two at a time, but put in the notes and message them if you want to get two different sizes instead of duplicates, I have one 18-14 and one 14-18, the quality isn't amazing, but they are very nice functionally... You might want 14-14 of course to keep the same size, but I would recommend getting 14-18 if you have those pieces to match? Or just two of the same is good to have spares, and because the quality can vary...

https://www.dhgate.com/product/tkl/418256865.html?invitationCode=ff8080814637ba5e01465ab2a6cb3557|-|418256865

I have several from this^ place as well in each possible size, same situation where you have to buy two of the same, but if you put in the notes and message them, they will send you two different size orientations if you want... The quality is a little better more consistent, but they are not as functionally impressive?

Another thing to note is that the first type might not clear every glass piece well enough, but it will work well with that FC-198 recycler so either of these are good choices there for cheap China, but you could also look at more local options, Amazon eBay etc too...

Unfortunately there are two other really nice options from DHgate that I have, but are no longer available

 

[BushRanger]

Just received today, about to do the burn off. The size of the bowl scares me

https://imgur.com/a/ax4ggUk

 

[n3hemiah]

TA4 if you plan to switch balls out occasionally, otherwise the 3's great. Look into a Scruffy Woofers stand on IG and a thick glass or steel-lined wood stem or WPA. Most use a kitchen torch but a Firefox is plenty sufficient.

To heat I spin slowly in the outer flame mid-cap until I see orange in the flame, then I move to the tip and heat that with the inner flame until it's cherried. Let it cool until the orange is gone, test with cigar puffs, have at it!

It's easy to get excellent results, they're really fantastic vapes.

thanks, very useful advice! any specific recs for a glass-compatible stem?

for stem - I currently only have a madheaters revolve, but I know I'd need better insulation to use the TA. @BushRanger - where'd you get that wood sleeve?

I've seen those stands around. Beastly stuff. I will check back in here once I'm up and running with it

 

[coolbreeze]

thanks, very useful advice! any specific recs for a glass-compatible stem?

You'd want thicker glass These would probably suffice:

Dynavap accessories

Stems, mouthpieces, and more for the dynavap

highartisan.com

for stem - I currently only have a madheaters revolve, but I know I'd need better insulation to use the TA. @BushRanger - where'd you get that wood sleeve?

I've seen those stands around. Beastly stuff. I will check back in here once I'm up and running with it

 

[jbm]

You'd want thicker glass These would probably suffice:

Dynavap accessories

Stems, mouthpieces, and more for the dynavap

highartisan.com

Mostly sold out. I’m hoping he restocks, I’d like to get a couple 18mm WPAs for Tempest/Anvil/TA.

 

[BushRanger]

@n3hemiah sleeve is from Azzwoodcustoms.

Dynavap VapCap Glass Charlie - verre artisanal VapeurShop

Acheter un Dynavap vapcap Glass Charlie V2, un stem en verre finement travaillé pour optimiser vos vaporisateurs Dynavap.

vapeurshop.com

I got one of these on the way, they should be thick. Looks like a good deal...

 

[Shit Snacks]

any specific recs for a glass-compatible stem?

If you can skim back a bit, I shared my glass WPA link again not too long ago, it's good

 

[Feyd2blak]

thanks, very useful advice! any specific recs for a glass-compatible stem?

for stem - I currently only have a madheaters revolve, but I know I'd need better insulation to use the TA. @BushRanger - where'd you get that wood sleeve?

I've seen those stands around. Beastly stuff. I will check back in here once I'm up and running with it

Can really recommend a stem from scruffy woofers for the TA3, impressive cooling, I normally use it on a jhook but this stem works a treat. Cannot believe I get to get high using this amazing gear

https://imgur.com/a/DmnvLWU

Bfg - Dani Fusion v1
Mad Heaters - Tempests
Dovetail Woodworks stem, looks SO good with the black Tempest
Scruffy Woofers custom stem
Phatpiggies TA3
Scruffy Woofers cooling/display stands

 

[BushRanger]

@Feyd2blak very nice! How does ScruffyWoofers stem compare to Tempest one, when using it natively with TA?
That long heat sink in stem looks much needed.

 

[Feyd2blak]

@Feyd2blak very nice! How does ScruffyWoofers stem compare to Tempest one, when using it natively?
That long heat sink in stem looks much needed.

I didn't like using the TA3 on the tempest stem, especially the wood, so much heat in that ta head and the bottom of the bowl sits flush on the stem so just felt it transferred too much heat. Hasn't actually tried the tempest with the woofers stem, just slapped it on, not to derail the thread but very impressive again, that heatsink seems to really do it's job. Also has a ceramic condenser as well