The Tempest by Mad Heaters & Phatpiggie

[VapingYogi]

The Flare

The Flare Experience unparalleled performance with The Flare, an advanced induction heater designed by (sometimes) Battery-Free Ganz and meticulously crafted by YLLVape. Wattage Range: 30 - 120W Power Up: Requires 3 units of 18650 batteries MOLICEL (batteries not included) Compatibility: - Dani...

batteryfreeganz.com

For those of you looking to get a Flare for the Tempest (just ordered mine)

I am addicted to using the Forge so I am a new Induction Heater fan...

I loved the Tempest before I got a beefy IH, but since I got one its been a different animal and I would recommend getting a beefier IH to pair with it

How does this fare as a strictly at home desk-top vape? My usage has changed a bit lately and I'm microdosing more on the go.

Brilliantly, that's how I use it at home

 

[modernblacksmith]

Which one is better for Tempest? Flare or Wand?

 

[RedZep]

Got my hands on the updated click discs. Just used first time, and the roast was absolutely perfect.

 

[BushRanger]

Which one is better for Tempest? Flare or Wand?

Wand is the best recommended based on price. The Forge is the best performing but much more expensive. There are also promising ones on the horizon like the Flare. The Wand performs well for a good price.

Flare should be in the middle, between Wand and Forge...

Torch is fun also!

https://imgur.com/a/61w6OHm

 

[DaBouse]

The Flare

The Flare Experience unparalleled performance with The Flare, an advanced induction heater designed by (sometimes) Battery-Free Ganz and meticulously crafted by YLLVape. Wattage Range: 30 - 120W Power Up: Requires 3 units of 18650 batteries MOLICEL (batteries not included) Compatibility: - Dani...

batteryfreeganz.com

For those of you looking to get a Flare for the Tempest (just ordered mine)

I am addicted to using the Forge so I am a new Induction Heater fan...

I loved the Tempest before I got a beefy IH, but since I got one its been a different animal and I would recommend getting a beefier IH to pair with it


Brilliantly, that's how I use it at home

So while I understand that the forge is more powerful than the wand, what I don’t fully understand is why that power translates to a better performance.

Comparing to torches for a moment, while a quad flame is more power and will make it happen sooner, a small single flame with enough BTU should get you the heat you need albeit a little slower.

I suppose what I’m trying to ask is how big is that difference from wand to forge?

 

[VapingYogi]

Flare should be in the middle, between Wand and Forge...

this definitely

So while I understand that the forge is more powerful than the wand, what I don’t fully understand is why that power translates to a better performance.

TLDR; Being able to control both the amount of heat / the amount of power & the time you leave it in the Induction heater changes the experience.

You have a lot of control with the forge where as the wand has one setting 100%, you press go and wait as time is the only variable, the 300c setting is just a timer.

The Forge allows you to change the power setting, so you can do 100% - which means you can heat the device up quickly - or you can turn the power down to 10% and choose to heat the device up a lot slower.

The way you heat it up changes the experience - Examples :

Quick and Hot - Forge @100% (11 seconds) - Flare 120W (20s) - the Wand can't do this as an example

With the Tempest, the above style of heating - "quick and hot" makes the experience "convection heavy". The bowl doesn't heat up as much, there is less conduction from the cap to the bowl. This also decreases the heat retention of the device as it only quickly heats the "induction zone" and the rest of the device stays very cool, this means that the device quickly cools down and you get shortest session with this method. This reminds me of the on demand mode on the Tiny Might 2. It’s very flavourful and I’ll often do an second heat to finish the bowl.

Low and Slow - Forge @25% (30 seconds) - Flare 50W (50s)

With the Tempest, the above style of heating "low and slow" makes the experience a much more hybrid one (a mixture of convection, conduction and increased radiant heat); the slow heating method takes a lot more time, it ensures a lot more conduction to the bowl and the herbs - but more importantly - it heats up the whole cap - not just the induction zone - this makes for maximum heat retention and increases the length of the session as the balls are kept at temperature longer because the whole device is much warmer. This has less flavour, is more toasty but also more “stoney”.

* the flare timing is an estimate to explain the difference

I suppose what I’m trying to ask is how big is that difference from wand to forge?

MASSIVE

Got my hands on the updated click discs. Just used first time, and the roast was absolutely perfect.

It just makes it that little bit easier

 

[RedZep]

this definitely


TLDR; Being able to control both the amount of heat / the amount of power & the time you leave it in the Induction heater changes the experience.

You have a lot of control with the forge where as the wand has one setting 100%, you press go and wait as time is the only variable, the 300c setting is just a timer.

The Forge allows you to change the power setting, so you can do 100% - which means you can heat the device up quickly - or you can turn the power down to 10% and choose to heat the device up a lot slower.

The way you heat it up changes the experience - Examples :

Quick and Hot - Forge @100% (11 seconds) - Flare 120W (20s) - the Wand can't do this as an example

With the Tempest, the above style of heating - "quick and hot" makes the experience "convection heavy". The bowl doesn't heat up as much, there is less conduction from the cap to the bowl. This also decreases the heat retention of the device as it only quickly heats the "induction zone" and the rest of the device stays very cool, this means that the device quickly cools down and you get shortest session with this method. This reminds me on the Tiny Might 2 on demand mode.

Low and Slow - Forge @25% (25 seconds) - Flare 50W (40s)

With the Tempest, the above style of heating "low and slow" makes the experience a much more hybrid one (a mixture of convection, conduction and increased radiant heat); the slow heating method takes a lot more time, it ensures a lot more conduction to the bowl and the herbs - but more importantly - it heats up the whole cap - not just the induction zone - this makes for maximum heat retention and increases the length of the session as the balls are kept at temperature longer because the whole device is much warmer.


MASSIVE


It just makes it that little bit easier

Awesome answer mate. Great detail as usual.

 

[DaBouse]

this definitely


TLDR; Being able to control both the amount of heat / the amount of power & the time you leave it in the Induction heater changes the experience.

You have a lot of control with the forge where as the wand has one setting 100%, you press go and wait as time is the only variable, the 300c setting is just a timer.

The Forge allows you to change the power setting, so you can do 100% - which means you can heat the device up quickly - or you can turn the power down to 10% and choose to heat the device up a lot slower.

The way you heat it up changes the experience - Examples :

Quick and Hot - Forge @100% (11 seconds) - Flare 120W (20s) - the Wand can't do this as an example

With the Tempest, the above style of heating - "quick and hot" makes the experience "convection heavy". The bowl doesn't heat up as much, there is less conduction from the cap to the bowl. This also decreases the heat retention of the device as it only quickly heats the "induction zone" and the rest of the device stays very cool, this means that the device quickly cools down and you get shortest session with this method. This reminds me on the Tiny Might 2 on demand mode.

Low and Slow - Forge @25% (25 seconds) - Flare 50W (40s)

With the Tempest, the above style of heating "low and slow" makes the experience a much more hybrid one (a mixture of convection, conduction and increased radiant heat); the slow heating method takes a lot more time, it ensures a lot more conduction to the bowl and the herbs - but more importantly - it heats up the whole cap - not just the induction zone - this makes for maximum heat retention and increases the length of the session as the balls are kept at temperature longer because the whole device is much warmer.


MASSIVE


It just makes it that little bit easier

So from what I’m gathering it sounds like low and slow method will not be an option for the wand. If that’s the case, it’s all the justification I need to skip that purchase. Not going to spend $100 on a flameless heater that is incredibly limited when the flare will be an option.

Seeing as you mentioned your pre order I’ll assume you haven’t gotten the chance to test it yet?

 

[VapingYogi]

So from what I’m gathering it sounds like low and slow method will not be an option for the wand. If that’s the case, it’s all the justification I need to skip that purchase. Not going to spend $100 on a flameless heater that is incredibly limited when the forge will be an option.

Seeing as you mentioned your pre order I’ll assume you haven’t gotten the chance to test it yet?

Most people will tell you the Wand will do the job of heating the Tempest - and it will - one way. I don’t really like it so maybe I’m more bias.

I own a Forge - it’s on a wait list for purchase after a large sale of them at the 420 sales.

I have not tried the Flare yet; that’s on presale.

The Flare runs on 3x18650 batteries and has variable power so I’m hoping that the flare has the power to do different heating methods on the Tempest.

The Forge runs on power tool batteries

 

[cybrguy]

Do you guys know if that $149 (for the Flare) is just the presale price? Or is that going to be their retail?

 

[Jojofernz]

I still don’t get all this dislike for the wand. It’s the perfect match for the tempest and all my time with it, I never felt like it needed anything more, works quickly and effectively, easy and repeatable. Perhaps battery could last longer and only reason I see a flare being better. But I can’t see how a torch couldn’t do what a much bulkier/less portable and more expensive IH like the forge can do for the tempest. Maybe if you’re at home using it a lot but tempest for me is awesome cause how portable and nice it is to use anywhere and everywhere. Carrying all you need in a little pen case.

Edit: Also I’m a bit confused on how people were trying a bit ago to make the tempest more “conduction” like, and now it’s that you can only really get that “convection” when using the forge cause it’s faster? Yet in the past the issue was it had too much of a convection signature…but describe the wand as heating it more in a manner that leads to more conduction?

 

[RedeyeDezign]

I got the Forge on the 420 sale, and its great.... just not 3-4 times the price of the wand great. I would rather have 3 backup wands personally. In my testing I can get more Tempest bowls out of the wand than the forge on one set of batteries. Maybe its because when the Forge is off, I can hear a slight coil buzz, draining my batteries when not in use

Also the wand is a good size for traveling, but the forge + batteries is not. The case that comes with the forge is pretty useless. It doesnt fit my grinders or any typical weed containers, and there is no spot for spare batteries. The case just seems like an after thought.

I think the Flare missed the mark with 3 18650 rather than using 21700 batteries, but I'm definitely curious what the early adopters have to say about it.

 

[cybrguy]

A big plus for the wand is the glass receiver that allows you to actually see the VI while you're heating. Do any of the other induction heaters have a glass receiver?

I think the Flare missed the mark with 3 18650 rather than using 21700 batteries, but I'm definitely curious what the early adopters have to say about it.

I agree with this. The only upside to not going with 21700s is that I wouldn't have to start buying a different size battery..

 

[RedeyeDezign]

Edit: Also I’m a bit confused on how people were trying a bit ago to make the tempest more “conduction” like, and now it’s that you can only really get that “convection” when using the forge cause it’s faster? Yet in the past the issue was it had too much of a convection signature…but describe the wand as heating it more in a manner that leads to more conduction?

The Forge allows you to turn the power down and the timer up creating a slower heat up, so you have options in dialing in convection/conduction sessions. There are 4 presets on the forge too, so you could save your convection and conduction settings separately. But honestly, its all a bit of a pain in the ass when I just want to get baked.

Edit: I should add that my Forge didnt ship with the Wagon Wheel which holds the DHV at the appropriate level, so i have to manually hold and Tempest/Anvil in place while heating. This means my heat ups aren't all exactly the same. I'm thinking about buying a Madheaters glass Wand adapter to put in the forge so I can go hands free again.

 

[RedZep]

A big plus for the wand is the glass receiver that allows you to actually see the VI while you're heating. Do any of the other induction heaters have a glass receiver?

I agree with this. The only upside to not going with 21700s is that I wouldn't have to start buying a different size battery..

Seeing the vi through the glass is a big plus. I can chain bowls in absolute rapidly when I'm out hiking.

 

[Jojofernz]

The Forge allows you to turn the power down and the timer up creating a slower heat up, so you have options in dialing in convection/conduction sessions. There are 4 presets on the forge too, so you could save your convection and conduction settings separately. But honestly, its all a bit of a pain in the ass when I just want to get baked.

Seems like a lot! I was also just curious how the same who used to state the tempest was too convection heavy and they wanted to mix in more conduction are now also saying the wand makes it more conduction leaning than convection. So things have changed somehow!

 

[cybrguy]

To be perfectly frank, I want a Sense. Based on the earlier descriptions, that is closer to the design I would like in a induction heater. @Brenyo has taken it off his site and I know he is concerned that the field is now too crowded, but I want one. If the Forge can sell at its price, I think a sense could sell as well. Talk me down, Brenyo.

 

[RedeyeDezign]

Seems like a lot! I was also just curious how the same who used to state the tempest was too convection heavy and they wanted to mix in more conduction are now also saying the wand makes it more conduction leaning than convection. So things have changed somehow!

Yeah, I guess I havent really been following that discussion. When I see a long winded post by certain people here, I just scroll passed it.... I dont have time for that! Sorry, not sorry

 

[666Honeybadger]

I can get more Tempest bowls out of the wand than the forge on one set of batteries.

Wow... I thought the forge was basically a huge battery?
So what? How many bowls does it last on average?
And what's the retail price of the forge? It doesn't show on the preorder page...

So things have changed somehow!

Was thinking the same... It's possible that different IH's change the experience a bit (speed, temp) but i don't see how something that used to be convectionheavy (Tempest/wand combo) suddenly has opposite results when basically nothing changed?

So the Forge made the Wand more conductionheavy?
But ... but ...
but how? It's .... magic!!!

 

[RedeyeDezign]

Wow... I thought the forge was basically a huge battery?
So what? How many bowls does it last on average?
And what's the retail price of the forge? It doesn't show on the preorder page...

I paid 500 for the Forge and Anvil bundle... The Anvil is like $200, but it was a 420 bundle so I doubt you can cop a forge for anything less than $300, and I bet they're going to shoot for closer to $400. This DOES NOT include the cost of batteries/charger if you dont already use Milwaukee M12's.

You can buy different M12 batteries with different mah's, so I could go buy a bigger battery (that doesnt fit in the case while on the Forge) and get well over 50 hits. But I already had the smaller 1.5 mah batteries and yeah, I get like maybe 6 good bowls out of it.

 

[666Honeybadger]

I bet they're going to shoot for closer to $400. This DOES NOT include the cost of batteries/charger if you dont already us Milwaukee M12's.

You can buy different M12 batteries with different mah's, so I could go buy a bigger battery (that doesnt fit in case while on the Forge) and get well over 50 hits. But I already had the smaller 1.5 mah batteries and yeah, I get like maybe 6 good bowls out of it.

Mmmkay, i guess i'll never get to try the Tempest in "Forge-convection" mode then...
Not so sorry tbh, it's way too big for my liking anyway.

I'll manage without, not worried a bit really. Always considered myself a convection lover but kinda like the experience i get with the wand so far... so maybe i'm more conduction oriented then i realised? Baffled!
LoL

To be perfectly frank, I want a Sense.

Ah yes! I agree with you! That would russtle my wallet for sure!

 

[cybrguy]

If it had to be 400 bucks, though, I don't think I could do it.

 

[Jojofernz]

If it had to be 400 bucks, though, I don't think I could do it.

The forge + tornado bundles were $420 and people saying it was $50 for the tornado so I would definitely expect at least $370 or more when it’s released. Crazy near double the price of the device it’s intended for.

Sorry for all the off-topic haha

 

[RedZep]

The forge + tornado bundles were $420 and people saying it was $50 for the tornado so I would definitely expect at least $370 or more when it’s released. Crazy near double the price of the device it’s intended for.

Sorry for all the off-topic haha

I think the Forge is probably for power users, who have multiple compatible vapes. @VapingYogi has Tempest, TA's, Anvil and maybe some others for example. So it's quite a sound investment for him.

I'm not tempted myself, as i only have thr Tempest that is compatible. I'm loving the wand, even though there are better experiences out there.

 

[cybrguy]

The Tempest and my Vapcaps are the only vapes that I have that really use induction heating. While the Wand with a decent adapter does a good job with the VCs, I usually use one of my Pipes IHs for them so I don't have to switch adapters. I do still use them. If, like some of the users in here, the Tempest had become my one and only vape to use, it might make sense to spend a lot more money on a higher end IH. Given that the Tempest is only one of the vapes I use, and the Wand works pretty well with it, it's going to be hard to rationalize buying an expensive IH for it (me).

Added: Forgive me. I use IHs for my Tempest, my Vap Caps, and my Revolves, of which I have a couple of both Gens. I tend to think of my Revolves as Vapcaps because they still use the cap and tip.