TommyDee
Vaporitor
Launch Box was love at first draw. Still do.
The Magic-Flight Box
- Thread starter magicflight
- Start date
vandalizedbythelotus
Well-Known Member
right? e-mailed them about it twice now .. apparently no interest ... i'm baffled ... this adapter could really boost the MFLB experience and possibly sales bringing it in line with today's tech IMHO
and it would be so easy for them to manufacture it considering they already have the PA platform/scaffold ... take the cage insert from PA and stick it to a 510 deck baddabing baddaboom
scy123
Trusted Member Don't Worry
I did the math before, the numbers are pretty insane. A single 18650 has around 12wh. If you ran it around 12w it would last a full hour, that would equal 720 (5) second hits from a single battery. Real world results will be a little less cause of efficiency. A single 21700 (only 3mm wider and 5mm longer than an 18650) also has around 18wh which is over 1000 (5) pulls from a single battery.
Not to mention It would have full blown sensorless temp control and they would not have to change anything with the design. 510 mod temp control is way better then using sensors too, the response time is almost instant.
The adaptor design is also 100% wireless which would give it zero of the reliability issues of the PA. over 5 years of using 510 mods daily (you can imagine as a former heavy smoker the usage would be way above what a weed vaper would see) and I never had a mod malfunction.
A lot of mods nowadays cost as low as $20-$30 too.
Edit: forgot to add. You would have the power of the sun in the palm of your hand lol.
Not to mention It would have full blown sensorless temp control and they would not have to change anything with the design. 510 mod temp control is way better then using sensors too, the response time is almost instant.
The adaptor design is also 100% wireless which would give it zero of the reliability issues of the PA. over 5 years of using 510 mods daily (you can imagine as a former heavy smoker the usage would be way above what a weed vaper would see) and I never had a mod malfunction.
A lot of mods nowadays cost as low as $20-$30 too.
Edit: forgot to add. You would have the power of the sun in the palm of your hand lol.
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OF
Well-Known Member
I guess I understand their not being enthusiastic about any device or modification that can drive their box harder than designed........they get to replace any LBs damaged or just 'worn out' early. For free. For life.
They are sure to have carefully considered all this from the days of the "Launch Tube" (predecessor to the LB) forward:
Who Remembers The Original Magic-Flight Launch Tube?
We were delighted to see that a member of the Reddit community, and one of our oldest fans by the looks of things, posted a series of photos of his original Magic-Flight Launch Tube, and even more so to see…
blog.magic-flight.com
MF has published some insights to the design, shape of the trough, mesh size, material selection and so on. It's all designed around the NiMN cell they use (and the PA that simulates that source) in a balance to give the desired heating pattern for what they consider their target market. Flashvape and others have come up with similar designs where the mesh is heated directly. FV uses cells even hotter than standard 18650 Li ions. There is a market for such devices, but IMO it's a much smaller market and the LB now enjoys.
So, as I see it, they don't want to shoulder the cost of replacement of boxes that they no doubt would consider abused (not used as directed). And as a second point, they went a long way to design their product to the market they serve. I can see them not wanting to change either of those positions. You, or anyone, could design and build a competitor product and try to capture the 'hot rod' market with all that entails.
That is it came out just like they planned, suitable to the majority. A case of 'it's not broke, don't fix it'?
Regards to all.
OF
scy123
Trusted Member Don't Worry
Was really digging the joke they made about the Launch Phauk1 they did. Besides the circle shape lol.
Built in ”nuclear” battery, seemless, no visible buttons. Make that shit draw activated with temp control and could probably launch themselves back in the spotlight.
Built in ”nuclear” battery, seemless, no visible buttons. Make that shit draw activated with temp control and could probably launch themselves back in the spotlight.
Ramahs
Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
Yeah. I have zero interest in using my MFLB with the PA, or any of these new mods that people are using.
I love the MFLB for how it was designed to be used.
I'm not denigrating, or trying to say anything negative to anyone here who is modding their MFLB. More power to ya. I just prefer to use mine in its native configuration, with the batteries it was designed to be used with.
I think the MFLB, in its native mode is a fantastic first vape for anyone new to vaporizing, as learning the technique to use it requires one learning how the vaporizing process works to get good results with their MFLB. It takes work, but it's worth it.
I love the MFLB for how it was designed to be used.
I'm not denigrating, or trying to say anything negative to anyone here who is modding their MFLB. More power to ya. I just prefer to use mine in its native configuration, with the batteries it was designed to be used with.
I think the MFLB, in its native mode is a fantastic first vape for anyone new to vaporizing, as learning the technique to use it requires one learning how the vaporizing process works to get good results with their MFLB. It takes work, but it's worth it.
justcametomind
Well-Known Member
Batteries can get hot, explode. This stuff requires testing and at MF most probably don't think it's a profitable thing.
I can't blame them since attaching a 510 mod destroys the form factor of their device, and mostly appeals only to us hardcore vapers.
scy123
Trusted Member Don't Worry
As long as you get properly rated batteries they won't explode. The mflb only runs at around 15w. Even the lowest "legit" 18650 is rated at 20w with some being rated for over 100w.
With a regulated mod it will actually detect under rated batteries. when you are pulling more amps than the battery can handle the battery voltage will drop significantly and the mod will stop firing.
An adaptor would also cost like $1 to make and can probably sell for over $40. Even diy I could make one for like $5.
If you get a nice mod it would be way nicer than the PA also.
With a regulated mod it will actually detect under rated batteries. when you are pulling more amps than the battery can handle the battery voltage will drop significantly and the mod will stop firing.
An adaptor would also cost like $1 to make and can probably sell for over $40. Even diy I could make one for like $5.
If you get a nice mod it would be way nicer than the PA also.
justcametomind
Well-Known Member
From a user perspective you are right.
From a seller's perspective they probably don't want to embark in such an experiment for the aforementioned reasons, imho.
scy123
Trusted Member Don't Worry
They where actually randomly sending out these emails before.
"Wise folks have long known that the Box is the safest and purest vaporizer on the market. And now, with lung health being critically important, many people are rediscovering what made the Launch Box the best choice to begin with: an organic, clean, efficient, time-tested vaporizer that leverages the benefits of dry herb with none of the concerns of additives or cartridges, lithium batteries, or poor quality heating coils."
So, they probably are hesitant on using lithium batteries. Don't blame them, if things goes wrong it can be pretty damaging.
"Wise folks have long known that the Box is the safest and purest vaporizer on the market. And now, with lung health being critically important, many people are rediscovering what made the Launch Box the best choice to begin with: an organic, clean, efficient, time-tested vaporizer that leverages the benefits of dry herb with none of the concerns of additives or cartridges, lithium batteries, or poor quality heating coils."
So, they probably are hesitant on using lithium batteries. Don't blame them, if things goes wrong it can be pretty damaging.
justcametomind
Well-Known Member
I still love my MFLB but I'd say it would be more correct to write "uncleanable", more than clean, and with sticky resin on that uncleanable spot, that's open to any sort of contamnant.
vandalizedbythelotus
Well-Known Member
as if they couldn't change the warranty rules again ... and nothing is free ... way i see it the price of replacements was included in the initial cost. bought 2 tubes and 4 boxes years ago and only replaced 1 box so far. i would be willing to forfeit my warranty for TEMP CONTROL ... that's a huge upgrade ... takes alot of the required technique out, making it more user friendly as well as improving performance.I guess I understand their not being enthusiastic about any device or modification that can drive their box harder than designed........they get to replace any LBs damaged or just 'worn out' early. For free. For life.
They are sure to have carefully considered all this from the days of the "Launch Tube" (predecessor to the LB) forward:
Who Remembers The Original Magic-Flight Launch Tube?
We were delighted to see that a member of the Reddit community, and one of our oldest fans by the looks of things, posted a series of photos of his original Magic-Flight Launch Tube, and even more so to see…blog.magic-flight.com
MF has published some insights to the design, shape of the trough, mesh size, material selection and so on. It's all designed around the NiMN cell they use (and the PA that simulates that source) in a balance to give the desired heating pattern for what they consider their target market. Flashvape and others have come up with similar designs where the mesh is heated directly. FV uses cells even hotter than standard 18650 Li ions. There is a market for such devices, but IMO it's a much smaller market and the LB now enjoys.
So, as I see it, they don't want to shoulder the cost of replacement of boxes that they no doubt would consider abused (not used as directed). And as a second point, they went a long way to design their product to the market they serve. I can see them not wanting to change either of those positions. You, or anyone, could design and build a competitor product and try to capture the 'hot rod' market with all that entails.
That is it came out just like they planned, suitable to the majority. A case of 'it's not broke, don't fix it'?
Regards to all.
OF
that's great but this would be an OPTION for those interested ... seems to me you are taking this like it's existence would somehow impede your enjoyment ...
i want to add at this point the lithium cell / 510 mod hysteria is not justified IMHO. this shouldn't be any more dangerous than the PA.
and yeah i get the fear about doing something new but it seems to me stagnating in a changing market is worse.
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scy123
Trusted Member Don't Worry
Most of the battery explosions I read about was due to user error, questionable manufacturing and fake batteries.
It can be hard to get into really as not a lot of things are made clear for a person getting into to realize. Even harder when you have to deal with fakes that are rated way above what they can really handle. I know when I got into lithium's I had no clue about this stuff too and had to be told/warned by other users and that was only after not using them properly.
It can be hard to get into really as not a lot of things are made clear for a person getting into to realize. Even harder when you have to deal with fakes that are rated way above what they can really handle. I know when I got into lithium's I had no clue about this stuff too and had to be told/warned by other users and that was only after not using them properly.
OF
Well-Known Member
No, they cannot just 'change the warranty rules' after the fact. That's not the way the law works. It's a legal contract, part of the terms of sale. Both parties have to agree to any changes. They set the terms, we agreed to them. Future sales can have different terms of course but I'm sure MF isn't interested in that given this would be a modest part of sales?
I get it that's your opinion. But it's not based in fact. The (MF approved) PA has a power limit they consider safe, not so random 'user mods'? There's a post with a 'sun comes up in the box' photo a few posts up, how do you think MF feels about that?
Just because we don't agree with you doesn't mean we're hysterical. We just have different opinions?
Not that you or anyone is welcome to do with whatever they've paid for, but I can clearly see why MF would not be interested in backing such actions and think you should be able to see that too. Let's be honest with ourselves, while we might individually be honest, as a group we fall a bit short? Remember when all the 'replaced' LBs were showing up on EBay and other lists? Some them with the serial numbers erased (original owner knew it was a scam), Ironically this alone (removing any S/N) makes the unit automatically contraband and the 'owner' of it subject to arrest as the assumption under law is it's stolen and the guy with it should know. A few items (firearms, autos and such) have S/N by law for registration purposes, but makers can apply a voluntary S/N for their own reasons after which removal or obscuring it is a bust.
Once again, you (or any other owner) is free to do what you want with yours, but MF not supporting it is obvious to me. Less than honest folks are going to make false claims (or forget to mention what they've done), they can count on it.
The obvious solution to this 'lost marketing opportunity' is to make your own competitive unit with any power source and level you think appropriate and let the free market sort it out as it should. FWIW, I'd probably buy one (given reasonable price) just to try out.
Regards to all.
OF
scy123
Trusted Member Don't Worry
They did alter the warranty though, now you can only get a max of (1) replacement and then they send you a box with no serial. This goes for all boxes even when bought under the (old) lifetime warranty rule. Whether they can legally do this is up to debate, but you will have to sue them to find out.
Here is an email they sent to one person who questioned the new warranty.
"As far as legality is concerned, companies can and do make changes to warranties all the time. As much as we wish we could absorb the cost of endless replacements, this is simply not realistic given the material costs for producing the Launch Box, the high cost of woodworker’s insurance, the cost of running a factory, employee salaries, healthcare, dental, and the list goes on and on."
Not hating, I can see why they would change this, the original warranty was too good even though it would only cost them like $2 to make one.
Personally I don't really care, their are so many mflb out there that I can get one used for like $40.
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Well said @OF and yes, that has a lot of merit on the higher power capability. Perhaps the MOD S/B MF as well and not 510 adapter.
The power limit of the box is 1.8V from the PA into 0.07 ohms as a measured output IIRC. That says 25 amps is a reasonable limit as intended by the offered offering. The further extrapolation is that this is 45 watts as a reasonable limit. Okay, lets call it 50 watts.
The power limit of the box is 1.8V from the PA into 0.07 ohms as a measured output IIRC. That says 25 amps is a reasonable limit as intended by the offered offering. The further extrapolation is that this is 45 watts as a reasonable limit. Okay, lets call it 50 watts.
OF
Well-Known Member
Once again your apparent misunderstanding of how these things work is showing. The 'free replacement for life' offer can only apply to the original one (the one you PAID MONEY for). Not a replacement. This is the 'quid pro quo' you heard so much about when folks want to impeach the President, "something for something". You have to have skin in the game to claim any benefits from a contract. Put simply, they replaced (without question) the box you paid for, at that point you're even in the deal, the contract has been honored. You paid for the box, they replaced it. Their obligation is satisfied. The sad fact is guys cheated on their good will. Big time. They honored the deal.
IMO this is not 'debatable', being 'settled law'.
Quid pro quo - Wikipedia
BTW, unless specifically stated this is not 'transferable' to someone who might buy your used box from you (they have no contract with MF). They have no contract with MF, in theory they can't make a claim. They might get you to file for them, but even that is dicey. MF wants to protect their good name of course even when folks are ripping them off.
I'm pretty confident of how this works having worked for a Marine Electronics company that had this problem with a couple of dealers in Florida. I had to give a disposition in the case since I was in charge of Customer Service ATT. Our Lawyer laid it all out for me, The 'other side' who had a Lawyer there dropped the case when they learned what they were up against. Contract law says you only have recourse if you paid or have 'other valuable consideration' in the deal. If I offer to loan you my pickup truck so you can move, but let my son take it camping that day instead you're SOL. If, however, we have an agreement for you to pay to use it I'm liable for the cost of the truck you rented to move?
So no, they never changed the contract, simply modified how they implemented it. The original box is still protected to the original buyer. You cannot abuse the product (they get to define that) and expect a replacement, for sure not more than one in any case.
Regards to all.
OF
scy123
Trusted Member Don't Worry
They even admitted they changed it though, it was changed twice actually. First time was (2) replacements then recently (1) replacement
Quote from a mflb email.
"As far as legality is concerned, companies can and do make changes to warranties all the time. As much as we wish we could absorb the cost of endless replacements, this is simply not realistic given the material costs for producing the Launch Box, the high cost of woodworker’s insurance, the cost of running a factory, employee salaries, healthcare, dental, and the list goes on and on."
Edit: here is the first change to (2) replacments.
If you look on the current link it will list (1) replacment.
Edit2: here is the original warranty info before any changes in case you wanna read it.
I mean like just the fact that they changed it from (2) replacements to (1) replacement makes your argument void.
Edit3:
BTW this is in the original warranty info
" This warranty is extended to all original consumer purchasers of an original Launch Box® product purchased directly from Magic-Flight.com or an authorized seller and all subsequent owners of a Launch Box containing a valid Serial Number (“Customers” or “You”), as a limited lifetime warranty (“Warranty Period”)."
This has also been changed to leave out "subsequent owners"
Like i'm not hating on mflb, I don't care, but to say I don't know what im talking about, of course i'm gonna back up my info.
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Correct, the old warranty warranted the box regardless of owner. That was in effect Aug'19. They gave me a replacement in full honor of their warranty. I didn't think they'd be able to hold that up for long. Each serial number must have a date of manufacture on record. Which warranty is active depends on that record. I see this a very smart move on the part of Magic Flight. Managing expectations. I want to see them continue making Launch Boxes!
Ramahs
Fucking Combustion (mostly) Since February 2017
Not at all. I find the mods y'all are putting together to be cool and fascinating...just not how I prefer to use my box.
My post was in no way meant to discourage what you're doing.
vandalizedbythelotus
Well-Known Member
@OF but they did change the terms of warranty already, and all i was saying was they could add something like "use at your own risk" "because were afraid of mod power buying our 510 adapter voids your warranty if you burn your screen" "only certified for use with THIS mod" etc ... i'm sure there are ways they could protect themselves against abuse and still make the adapter.
and by hysteria i didn't mean yours, i meant general recent scare related to lithium cells which is based on misinformation and/or early tech, already solved issues. market used to be flooded with crappy/counterfeit cells but today's tech is more mature, regulated and the consumer is better educated.
i want them to make the adapter because they can do it better and cheaper than anyone else since they already have the PA, it would be easier for them to adapt that design/tooling than for me to start from scratch. i want them to make more money and survive longer, and i think this could be a very fruitful venue.
and by hysteria i didn't mean yours, i meant general recent scare related to lithium cells which is based on misinformation and/or early tech, already solved issues. market used to be flooded with crappy/counterfeit cells but today's tech is more mature, regulated and the consumer is better educated.
i want them to make the adapter because they can do it better and cheaper than anyone else since they already have the PA, it would be easier for them to adapt that design/tooling than for me to start from scratch. i want them to make more money and survive longer, and i think this could be a very fruitful venue.