The Grasshopper

[lwien]

When I look at something like the sublimator machine shop it is kind of laughable that grass hopper makes a big deal about having someone else machine two rather easy to make parts for them.

The much closer tolerances that are required for a small portable vaporizer like the GH is MUCH harder to manufacture than the large parts needed for a home vape such as the Sub.

 

[Scott A]

The much closer tolerances that are required for a small portable vaporizer like the GH is MUCH harder to manufacture than the large parts needed for a home vape such as the Sub.

Not exactly it just takes good CNC machines like the ones that sublimator does have in their shop.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

while machining a part or two may be easy, the challenge comes with trying to machine tens of thousands of these parts. definitely outsource that.

 

[t-dub]

To be fair I believe that Enrico does NOT own that machine shop he just has access because his father works there iirc . . .

 

[grokit]

The sublimator is very well-machined, but even compared to the 2.0 these parts seem on another level as far as micro-precision tolerances and circuit sophistication yadda batteries yadda goes.

 

[Scott A]

The sublimator is very well-machined, but even compared to the 2.0 these parts seem on another level as far as micro-precision tolerances and circuit sophistication yadda batteries yadda goes.

The machines enrico shows in his videos could easily create those pieces though.

 

[caves]

The machines enrico shows in his videos could easily create those pieces though.

Would it be as fast and cost efficient as outsourcing? It would be incredibly inefficient for the Grasshopper team considering they don't have free access to an already existing shop. They'd have set one up from the ground up, and I'd imagine that would significantly eat into their Indiegogo money.

 

[J.D.420]

If a mega multi billion dollar corporation like apple chooses outsource the manufacturing of their phones and tablets it should tell you something about the costs of setting up your own manufacturing facilities. Outsourcing doesn't have to mean a loss in quality as long as you deal with legitimate companies and keep the quality control standards high.

 

[Scott A]

Would it be as fast and cost efficient as outsourcing? It would be incredibly inefficient for the Grasshopper team considering they don't have free access to an already existing shop. They'd have set one up from the ground up, and I'd imagine that would significantly eat into their Indiegogo money.

My point isnt that they should be manufacturing everything in house. I think I made that clear. My point is that a few pictures of out sourced easy to manufacture parts mean nothing in the grand scheme of if this vaporizer will work or not. I would rather see updates about the good stuff.

 

[caves]

My point isnt that they should be manufacturing everything in house. I think I made that clear. My point is that a few pictures of out sourced easy to manufacture parts mean nothing in the grand scheme of if this vaporizer will work or not. I would rather see updates about the good stuff.

Well, as Pak said earlier, they have no incentive to show you the "good stuff." Anything really interesting on this vape is going to be proprietary things they want to keep under wraps until they finish the product. They have kept their mouths closed about the heating element and insulation because those are the things that make the 'Hopper special. If it performs as advertised you can expect all sorts of knock-offs and companies utilizing the same sort of tech to compete in the portable market. They'd prefer for that to happen after development instead of during. It's all about protecting their design for as long as possible.

 

[Scott A]

Well, as Pak said earlier, they have no incentive to show you the "good stuff." Anything really interesting on this vape is going to be proprietary things they want to keep under wraps until they finish the product. They have kept their mouths closed about the heating element and insulation because those are the things that make the 'Hopper special. If it performs as advertised you can expect all sorts of knock-offs and companies utilizing the same sort of tech to compete in the portable market. They'd prefer for that to happen after development instead of during. It's all about protecting their design for as long as possible.

I dont think a picture showing a bunch of batteries or heating elements like the PCB board picture would be giving away much if any secrets. Its not like they would be releasing schematics of the thing and battery specifications. Its still going to take until someone has one in their hands to reverse engineer it.

 

[Caligula]

True story. This is why every military in the world publicly release pictures of their developing defense, vehicle, and weapons projects. No one could ever gain an inside track by looking at detailed pictures of proprietary internal components.

 

[HillaryClinton]

Obviously I know they wont be making their own battery. I was talking about machined parts that really mean nothing in the end game of if the grass hopper will work or not. I dont think its ridiculous to expect them to manufacture at least parts of the vaporizer them selves or to set up some manufacturing with the kick starter money. When I look at something like the sublimator machine shop it is kind of laughable that grass hopper makes a big deal about having someone else machine two rather easy to make parts for them.

I guess all I can do is wait till some time next year when I receive my unit to see the important stuff.

Personally I think you are underestimating how much work is involved in getting a product like this to market in a professional manner and having it all work correctly, if it was that easy there would be 100 Chinese knockoffs that perform just as well by now. I rather them focus on design and everything else then have them spend time on stuff like that.

Just how I am seeing it.

I dont think a picture showing a bunch of batteries or heating elements like the PCB board picture would be giving away much if any secrets. Its not like they would be releasing schematics of the thing and battery specifications. Its still going to take until someone has one in their hands to reverse engineer it.

Pretty sure if I was making it I would not leave even a 0.00009 percent chance of a secret being released, I sure as hell would not release internal photos....

 

[OF]

Personally I think you are underestimating how much work is involved in getting a product like this to market in a professional manner and having it all work correctly, if it was that easy there would be 100 Chinese knockoffs that perform just as well by now.

Pretty sure if I was making it I would not leave even a 0.00009 percent chance of a secret being released, I sure as hell would not release internal photos....

While the OP may well be guilty of underestimating the time line here, I suggest he is far from alone. In fact, consider the future makers (or so we hope) of this wondervape are coming up on a year late? And they are in the best position of all to make an accurate estimate? As several have pointed out such delays are a known issue with those who've been through this process, experience teaches you to expect delays and sound planning calls for including this in your plans.

For heaven's sake the Swiss over at Vapman just announced a two week delay in their oil screen conversion due to vendor delays, and they're a pretty 'tick tock' lot........ And they don't take sides......

I'm not sure I agree that the Chinese knock offs can be showing up before the original? Those guys are getting good and all, but that's pretty 'out there' IMO. For sure the performance they advertise is not trivial, 'or we'd have the janitor do it instead'. It has to exist before it can be copied.

While I understand the idea of protecting the details by not sharing photos, if it's really going to ship before Thanksgiving such secrets are on thin ice. Just as we see 'all the time' with other vape makers (and the plain old curious), such gear gets picked apart pretty quickly. This guy has several jaw dropping features, few if any likely betrayed by a photograph. Such espionage, like most I think, is based on which of the possible known conditions is happening. I get it that there's no sense in helping out the pirates, but TV, Delta 9 (or whatever the latest name is.....), MF, Arizer and the rest fear competitors with hardware to test and analyze rather than photos I think? Their 'secrets' revolve around materials and techniques, not appearance, generally?

It's encouraging that the process is continuing. And the project exciting. I think all are 'pulling for this one'?

OF

 

[blankexpression]

I dont think a picture showing a bunch of batteries or heating elements like the PCB board picture would be giving away much if any secrets.

So how is seeing them going to prove anything to you about whether the product will work or not? I can't see any advantage myself, but thats just me!

 

[caves]

New update for today:

Hey Everyone,

We’re back again with the scheduled update. First off, we want to say thanks for the continued support. All the positive and encouraging emails are great! We are as excited as you for the release of the Grasshopper. It looks like a lot of you are enjoying getting to watch the process as we post pictures of the production parts. It’s exciting to be at this stage of the project, as the results of months on the computer are realized in the form of physical parts. In the last 15 days, we’ve received the cables for the USB charger, implemented them into our testing, and continued to work closely with our manufacturers.

We’re pleased to report that the USB Charging Cables have arrived in perfect condition, and won’t be needing revision. Our cable manufacturer has been one of the easiest to work with, though the cables are fairly straightforward compared to many other parts of the Grasshopper. The USB Charging Cable is a two part cable that allows for an isolation circuit to be integrated between the Grasshopper and the power source. This was a big challenge to design and implement, but it provides the high level of safety needed for the important “charging while in use” feature. The cables have been implemented into our testing to ensure proper operation of the software through the long wires.

We continue to work with our manufacturers to get the rest of the Grasshopper parts here as quickly as possible. The Clip has still yet to arrive, but should be shipping with a few other parts very soon. We’ve received another batch of tiny round circuit boards that reflect the changes we required, and are pleased with the result. The packaging, which is the largest item by volume (and over 4000 pounds in total), will be in route shortly.

Be sure to check back with us on October 1st for more details on progress, and all the latest news from our manufacturers.

The Grasshopper Team

 

[llamaman001]

kind of a disspointing update compared to the others but what can ya do? I really hope to see this vape in the streets soon.

 

[geraldus]

' this a consummation devoutly to be wished !
I had my heart set on getting to try it by the end of Sept. , but it looks like I'll have to be patient . Ah , well , as long as I have my Pax .

 

[biohacker]

I just appreciate the updates! Communication is huge, and this company steps it up! Sounds like it won't be much longer, my guess is definitely before the end of the year.

 

[stickstones]

I wonder if this charging cable could be used with other vapes to charge and use at the same time.

 

[Belgianvapor]

I wonder if this charging cable could be used with other vapes to charge and use at the same time.

If they go with the first design, with the magnetic ring that slides over the top/temp button then I
don't think it will be usable with other vapes.

 

[OF]

I wonder if this charging cable could be used with other vapes to charge and use at the same time.

If they go with the first design, with the magnetic ring that slides over the top/temp button then I
don't think it will be usable with other vapes.

I agree. The second cable looks like an output cable, big wire, the sort of thing you'd expect from the high current an inductive coupler is likely to need. Unless the vape is set up for this you're SOL.

If, however, the OP's question had to do with the new cable adding the charge and use feature to vapes that don't now have it, no way Charlie. The vape has to be designed with that in mind. And, to be clear, such schemes aren't true PA mode, the battery is simply being constantly recharged as it's also being used. Remove the battery and the vape goes cold. It's a matter of power, typically, a USB port just doesn't have enough power on tap to run this (or any other vape I can think of) 'barefoot'. You have to get into the range of very anemic e-cigs for this to be possible, otherwise the power demands for heating are just more than a USB port can be expected to supply.

Some will note how years after their forecast USB power never happened for Omicron, Persei, or any of the TV products (amongst others). It's an attractive concept for sure, but it defies the physics of the heating problem. You have to get your peak power demands under 5 Watts or store energy before you need it in a battery. Them's the rules.

OF

 

[grokit]

I was thinking they might be using dc-dc converters, which multiply the 5v usb power input up to 24v. I've seen these converters used in small audio appliances, they're quite tiny so they should work out here.
http://www.maximintegrated.com/en/products/power/switching-regulators/MAX8614.html

 

[°k]

So, not too happy with this info lacking update I've complained in the comments of the campaign page and so did a few others, then Trevor replied with the following:

For those of you disappointed with the update, this of course this was not our intention. We don’t mean to upset you with what is included or what is not. It is only our intention to pass to you best information we have about the project. One on hand the harsh criticism can be frustrating because we have been pouring our lives into this, on the other, I am happy you are so passionate about the product.
For those concerned about the lack of delivery mention, we are sorry and realize that we should have been more explicit with the issue with a specific date. The problem at this stage with saying we will deliver at blank date is that manufactures set there own schedules and if even one part is delayed it can push everything back very quickly. As a tiny company trying to get big manufactures with other huge clients who place orders for hundreds of thousands of parts, it can be difficult to get them to prioritize our extremely small batch orders. This leaves us with little power over them. I can see some would say we should target using smaller manufactures who place more value on our orders and this is something we have done as much as possible but even a “small manufacture” is very large compared to us. Why not take outside investment and scale up to larger order sizes? We have been offered countless times additional funds but honestly this is not why we started this company. We wanted to build a Vaporizer our way and we knew if we could do that people would love it.
I know from your perspective this whole process can be extremely frustrating, as there have already been long delays. In the beginning we did not expect nearly as many problems as we encountered and the time rapidly added up making us miss our deadlines and wonder how we could speed the process up. Necessary design changes to accommodate the new scale of the project just took way longer than we thought, and we apologize for not knowing better at the time. Now as our ship date begins to rely heavily on other companies it has been increasingly hard to predict when things will arrive. Believe me when I say this is extremely frustrating for us, as we of all people want to ship most. We had hoped to have a more accurate picture of delivery for next update. Again sorry for this not being clear and sorry for the broken up comments as Indiegogo only allows 500 characters per post.


Trevor

https://www.indiegogo.com/projects/grasshopper-vaporizer#comments


So if I get this right, they didn't mention the late September "release" because of their manuf... nevermind, I'll keep the cynicism for myself, after all it's just a stupid vape and even if they release it next year the world will keep on spinning!

 

[zymos]

They didn't mention the late September release because they already said two weeks ago " But with our manufacturers’ unpredictable delays, it’s still difficult to say if we will hit our September deadline. The possibility exists, but based on their fickle past, we would ask that you remain patient and know that we are doing our very best to get you the Grasshopper as soon as we can."