The Grasshopper
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OF
Well-Known Member
No, if you have to push to top (like clicking a pen) to start the heating cycle. That's as close to a fact as we have from them I think.
You certainly don't think there's enough battery in there to keep it at 400F for 3 hours, right? Come to think of it, that's about what they claimed now that I think about it.......before they took it down? Wanna guess why they might have taken that claim down? It's surely not because they know it'll do 3 hours.......
And I would hold that 'disinformation' is where you knowingly spread false information as legit (generally for profit or advantage). So, by that definition, while they might be spreading misinformation here I don't think you can accuse us of that. IMO all you can say is we're questioning their claims, based on our experiences with other vapes and the technology involved, and perhaps being in error? IMO there must be some meat to it or the claims of multiple hours would still be up. 3 or 4 sessions is a safe claim, since it seems some will consider a few hits spaced out a session, but everyone knows how long 3 hours is.
I see us as doing no disservice (or I guess I'd bail on it), sorry to disagree with you.
Excellent suggestion, hard to say what to expect? IMO it might be a good idea to ask at the same time how hot the MP gets with say 6 back to back hits, what you and 2 friends might take in a row?
I'd tend to agree with you, but they might be under pressure to get it out in any reasonable form, they've taken money promising delivery, right? That gets ugly fast if you don't deliver.......unless you cut and run. Thin ice, that way.
As I understand it FF has a very poor battery life, I don't own one, but think that's a common negative? Yet guys recommend and buy them because they fit their needs. The ESV I just got (the one that prompted this firestorm.....) is, I think a useful vape, despite the need to stir between hits. We learned with T1 and Cera that this is a feature customers value. Yet T1 remains an excellent vape. IMO you're 'well healed' to own one.
So I agree, whatever is released is likely to be acceptable to at least some customers.......the question is who and how many are they?
OF
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Despite prior representations, I tend to doubt that GH will bring the pen to market with an unacceptably poor battery life in view of prospective consumer's reasonable expectation given this form factor. They probably had to reassess their initial claim as developments progressed. JMO
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lwien
Well-Known Member
Gottcha.......understood.
btka
Well-Known Member
i am totaly no expert regarding electronics, physics or what else... so i would say i am not able to judge their claims about battery life... but as a non expert and only user of vaporizer it is hard to belief their claims about batttery life... and i also belief you that it will not...
sorry i wasn t clear about the definition and my first language isn t english so i have used desinformation instead of misinformation (but i am glad if i can learn something)
all i was stating in my former post was that it is sometimes not clear to me if the things posted here are true or speculations
valleysquirrel
Well-Known Member
Sup homies
Not sure if anybody has done it already, but I just emailed them with a bunch of questions
I asked about battery life and specifically said that I wasn't talking about turning in the unit and leaving it on a table (I said medium temp @Spinuch)
I also asked what happened to the 3-4 hour battery life claim
There's more..
I asked about
- stirring
- ABV (before and after pics of 'finely ground material')
- a pic of the inside of the oven (I'm curious), although I doubt they'll send pics at all for some reason
- *if there was going to be a charging station for the batteries or if they plan on having us pop every single battery in the unit one by one to charge
- if it was going to be concentrate compatible at some point
- how much they planned to change the price after pre order
I'm sure there's much more I could have asked, but that's all I could think of
Plus I didn't want to overdo it with questions since I'm actually hoping to get a response
Hopefully we hear from them soon
Not sure if anybody has done it already, but I just emailed them with a bunch of questions
I asked about battery life and specifically said that I wasn't talking about turning in the unit and leaving it on a table (I said medium temp @Spinuch)
I also asked what happened to the 3-4 hour battery life claim
There's more..
I asked about
- stirring
- ABV (before and after pics of 'finely ground material')
- a pic of the inside of the oven (I'm curious), although I doubt they'll send pics at all for some reason
- *if there was going to be a charging station for the batteries or if they plan on having us pop every single battery in the unit one by one to charge
- if it was going to be concentrate compatible at some point
- how much they planned to change the price after pre order
I'm sure there's much more I could have asked, but that's all I could think of
Plus I didn't want to overdo it with questions since I'm actually hoping to get a response
Hopefully we hear from them soon
I am enjoying the discussion here. The truth is that we are all enthusiasts, and when a new product promises so much it's natural for excitement/doubts to be generated.
Its reasonable to assume that they did not develop their own battery technology, and the current tech. only has so much energy density. Their only option to increase battery life is to design a more efficient heating element. We will see what they came up with, but common sense tells me that we are not going to see any significant changes over already available conduction materials.
Its reasonable to assume that they did not develop their own battery technology, and the current tech. only has so much energy density. Their only option to increase battery life is to design a more efficient heating element. We will see what they came up with, but common sense tells me that we are not going to see any significant changes over already available conduction materials.
OF
Well-Known Member
Boy I'm with ya there on the 'bunch of' characterization. Quite the list, seems you've been paying a lot of attention or took good notes....... It'll be very interesting, I think, to see what they have to say about the things on that list. FWIW I don't think they'll respond to some of them, but any insights would be welcome?
Thanks for doing so, please let us know? TIA
OF
peaceonearth
High since 1968
Hi folks, I have a blue Ti on order (plus case and 1 extra battery) and had some back/forth with Trevor last week. Here is the summary of my questions and his verbatim responses.
Q: I started by asking about efficiency… told him my problems with the Ascent and Haze, how they continued to cook between hits and waste product, which is why I kept going back to MFLB which is more geared to my 2-hit-per-session use.
A: "The Grasshopper is perfect for you. We really designed it around what you are talking about. Having the ability to take 1 or 2 draws on the go, chamber full or even just a little in there. The Grasshopper works much differently than almost any portable. They all require their large chambers to be heated up before you can vape, wasting a good 1-5 minutes, and like you said vapeing your herbs when you are not even drawing on the device. Using a powerful heater, the Grasshopper heats the air on demand as you draw it into the chamber. The air passes over the herbs in the chamber vapeing them with almost no heat up time. This is great because one, you don't have to wait to use it and two it works just as well with a tiny amount in the chamber. One of the best uses though is that you can fill the chamber up and just take it around with you, taking your 1 or 2 draws when ever, and the herbs will not be wasted because they are not sitting in a piping hot chamber while you wait for it to heat up. I use my Grasshopper just like this."
Q: Are there any materials along the vapor path other than stainless steel or glass? And is the steel surgical grade?
A: "The air path is almost all stainless. It is a medical grade. There is a small amount of a very special material that is molded to form the funnel. This is a glass filled material that has a continuous operating temperature of 300C. Safety is very important to us."
Q: Can you please clarify the “greater performance” of the titanium?
A: "The better performance has to do with thermal management. The Ti version allows for slightly extended use because the outside will get hot a little slower. Ti is more emissive, meaning that it can transfer heat to the environment more quickly. This might seem like a bad thing, but it is actually a good thing. We don't want heat on the outside of the vape, we only want it on the inside. So if the outside starts to become warm we want the heat escaping to the environment as fast as possible and not sitting in the housing building up. This is the property that allows for a bit better performance. If you were drawing on two units, one Ti, one stainless, at the same rate the housing of the Ti would heat a bit slower.
I normally only recommend it to those really looking to squeeze everything they can out of their vaporizers. The stainless edition is very effective and has no problem producing great clouds."
Q: Can you please give some idea of the battery run-time? And also the re-charge time?
A: "You can vape 3-4 chambers of herbs before the battery needs replacing. How quickly you go through that is really user dependent. An extra is good to have but definitely not a requirement for most people.
The recharge time is dependent on what current the usb brick or port you plug it into is. It will range from about 40 minutes to 1.5 hours."
I also pointed out 2 issues with the website info, both of which have now been corrected:
1) The FAQ now correctly states that a 1.2cc chamber size = 1/4 teaspoon.
2) The discrepancy with the main page about it being pure convection vs the FAQ saying it was primarily convection, is no longer. The FAQ now reads: “The Grasshopper is a pure convection device. It uses a patented heat exchanger that heats air on-demand, as you take a draw. This means less waiting for the vaporizer to heat up, and allows for ultra-efficient use of battery power.” (My guess to what happened is, after their redesign back when they went to pure convection, they updated the home page but forgot to update the FAQ.)
BTW I didn't inundate him with all those questions at once - they were spread out in a few emails
Now here is my 2 cents on the battery power (from a non-engineer clueless-user perspective):
I took a teaspoon and leveled it with ground herb, it came amazingly close to 1 g. So 1/4 tsp = .25 g (slightly larger than a MLFB trench, and about a days worth for me.)
So if a battery is good for 3-4 chambers, that’s over 3/4 g. Even if it was only good for 2 chambers that’s 1/2 g… not too shabby, IMHO.
I know a few of you are skeptical but I remain optimistic and am excited about finally having a truly portable, stealthy, convenient, efficient, cloud-producing and plastic-free vape that was professionally engineered and doesn't look/feel like it was made in someone's garage.
Peace Love RocknRoll
Q: I started by asking about efficiency… told him my problems with the Ascent and Haze, how they continued to cook between hits and waste product, which is why I kept going back to MFLB which is more geared to my 2-hit-per-session use.
A: "The Grasshopper is perfect for you. We really designed it around what you are talking about. Having the ability to take 1 or 2 draws on the go, chamber full or even just a little in there. The Grasshopper works much differently than almost any portable. They all require their large chambers to be heated up before you can vape, wasting a good 1-5 minutes, and like you said vapeing your herbs when you are not even drawing on the device. Using a powerful heater, the Grasshopper heats the air on demand as you draw it into the chamber. The air passes over the herbs in the chamber vapeing them with almost no heat up time. This is great because one, you don't have to wait to use it and two it works just as well with a tiny amount in the chamber. One of the best uses though is that you can fill the chamber up and just take it around with you, taking your 1 or 2 draws when ever, and the herbs will not be wasted because they are not sitting in a piping hot chamber while you wait for it to heat up. I use my Grasshopper just like this."
Q: Are there any materials along the vapor path other than stainless steel or glass? And is the steel surgical grade?
A: "The air path is almost all stainless. It is a medical grade. There is a small amount of a very special material that is molded to form the funnel. This is a glass filled material that has a continuous operating temperature of 300C. Safety is very important to us."
Q: Can you please clarify the “greater performance” of the titanium?
A: "The better performance has to do with thermal management. The Ti version allows for slightly extended use because the outside will get hot a little slower. Ti is more emissive, meaning that it can transfer heat to the environment more quickly. This might seem like a bad thing, but it is actually a good thing. We don't want heat on the outside of the vape, we only want it on the inside. So if the outside starts to become warm we want the heat escaping to the environment as fast as possible and not sitting in the housing building up. This is the property that allows for a bit better performance. If you were drawing on two units, one Ti, one stainless, at the same rate the housing of the Ti would heat a bit slower.
I normally only recommend it to those really looking to squeeze everything they can out of their vaporizers. The stainless edition is very effective and has no problem producing great clouds."
Q: Can you please give some idea of the battery run-time? And also the re-charge time?
A: "You can vape 3-4 chambers of herbs before the battery needs replacing. How quickly you go through that is really user dependent. An extra is good to have but definitely not a requirement for most people.
The recharge time is dependent on what current the usb brick or port you plug it into is. It will range from about 40 minutes to 1.5 hours."
I also pointed out 2 issues with the website info, both of which have now been corrected:
1) The FAQ now correctly states that a 1.2cc chamber size = 1/4 teaspoon.
2) The discrepancy with the main page about it being pure convection vs the FAQ saying it was primarily convection, is no longer. The FAQ now reads: “The Grasshopper is a pure convection device. It uses a patented heat exchanger that heats air on-demand, as you take a draw. This means less waiting for the vaporizer to heat up, and allows for ultra-efficient use of battery power.” (My guess to what happened is, after their redesign back when they went to pure convection, they updated the home page but forgot to update the FAQ.)
BTW I didn't inundate him with all those questions at once - they were spread out in a few emails
Now here is my 2 cents on the battery power (from a non-engineer clueless-user perspective):
I took a teaspoon and leveled it with ground herb, it came amazingly close to 1 g. So 1/4 tsp = .25 g (slightly larger than a MLFB trench, and about a days worth for me.)
So if a battery is good for 3-4 chambers, that’s over 3/4 g. Even if it was only good for 2 chambers that’s 1/2 g… not too shabby, IMHO.
I know a few of you are skeptical but I remain optimistic and am excited about finally having a truly portable, stealthy, convenient, efficient, cloud-producing and plastic-free vape that was professionally engineered and doesn't look/feel like it was made in someone's garage.
Peace Love RocknRoll
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OF
Well-Known Member
Thanks, lots of good information there, hopefully pretty solid. It fits in with what we've been talking about. I suspect that the 1 or 2 hits gets away from heat buildup as well. I'm not sure you can go from sessions (or any size) per charge estimates to the assumption you can pack as much in each and still get the same battery life. The two are surely related. And I think you'll find the typical load size in a bowl that size is about half that. Solo is generally under .2 grams and it's 1.5cc. My guess is it'll be about on par with MFLB (.125 as I load) if filled up. Still, useful for many. And with reloads most? If the heat buildup isn't an issue......
But not even close to 3 hours, let alone the original 4+. It would, I think, be nice to know about the heat buildup with consecutive hits. How many in a row is practical. For sure there are times when even modest users will want to take more than 2? This is a known issue with some small vapes, limiting their utility. It'd also be nice to have a time per charge number to work with rather than 3 or 4 ill defined loads.
FWIW those kinds of answers might best come from actual hands on testing? Still, I'd like to have the official GH line on this, and I'm sure I'm not alone.
Thanks again.
OF
alphabj
Well-Known Member
That is comforting news. I remember one of the GH team (I think it was the guy who is no longer with the company and was the least knowledgable about the vape) telling me that there was no separation between the herb and the heater and that it wasn't a problem because the heater only gets as hot as the temperature setting. This had me worried this whole time that the heater would get all gunked up as well as lose the ability to keep the temp up during a draw. Now we know there MUST be a stainless mesh separator between the herb and the heater and that you're not likely to outdo the heater by taking a fast draw.
valleysquirrel
Well-Known Member
Chill Dude
Well-Known Member
Guys, perhaps the battery life won't be as long as we previously thought, but it will most likely be more than adequate for a stealthy little pen vape.
I think we can assume with reasonable accuracy that you will most likely get at least three sessions with a full charge. That's plenty for me and I think most others. That said, there will be some that will not be satisfied with that and need/want six sessions or more per charge. If that's the case, the Grasshopper most likely won't be the vape for you. You may want to consider buying a Solo or an Arizer Air which will give you more sessions per charge. I really think it's as simple as that!
I think we can assume with reasonable accuracy that you will most likely get at least three sessions with a full charge. That's plenty for me and I think most others. That said, there will be some that will not be satisfied with that and need/want six sessions or more per charge. If that's the case, the Grasshopper most likely won't be the vape for you. You may want to consider buying a Solo or an Arizer Air which will give you more sessions per charge. I really think it's as simple as that!
cow-a-bunga
Well-Known Member
We know the "3 or 4 hours of continuous usage" is BS, and since the GH is an on demand convection vape, "time in minutes" is a very poor measurement.
It will be very different from user to user. For operating time in minutes to mean anything at all, someone must hook the GH up to a machine with a constant draw and a static pull force and see how long the battery would manage to run the heater. Say it lasted 3 minutes on medium temp with a constant draw force of 100 liters of air per minute. WTH would that translate to in real life? The tip would probably be too hot for any human lips to touch and the herb in the unit would probably be spent 40 sec into the test. Results would also vary depending on ambient temp.
What would be interesting to know is how much herb in grams the the GH will be able to transform into medium ABV. This number would also be different depending on the dryness of the herb and what users consider to be ABV.
@peaceonearth has given us the answer. The GH can vape 0.75 g
of herb before the battery needs to be recharged.
I think that is how close we'll ever get to an answer on "The Mystery of Battery Life in the Long Awaited GH.
VAS got the better of me, I'm in for a preorder SS GH . Estimated delivery is May 2015.
It will be very different from user to user. For operating time in minutes to mean anything at all, someone must hook the GH up to a machine with a constant draw and a static pull force and see how long the battery would manage to run the heater. Say it lasted 3 minutes on medium temp with a constant draw force of 100 liters of air per minute. WTH would that translate to in real life? The tip would probably be too hot for any human lips to touch and the herb in the unit would probably be spent 40 sec into the test. Results would also vary depending on ambient temp.
What would be interesting to know is how much herb in grams the the GH will be able to transform into medium ABV. This number would also be different depending on the dryness of the herb and what users consider to be ABV.
@peaceonearth has given us the answer. The GH can vape 0.75 g
of herb before the battery needs to be recharged.
I think that is how close we'll ever get to an answer on "The Mystery of Battery Life in the Long Awaited GH.
VAS got the better of me, I'm in for a preorder SS GH . Estimated delivery is May 2015.
lwien
Well-Known Member
The need to stir between hits or the lack thereof could be a deciding factor for many.
Chill Dude
Well-Known Member
Agreed, I don't want to see black or ash, but I also don't want to see light tan with green bits either. After viewing the video where those two very inexperienced young girls were blowing some very dense vapor; I seriously doubt that the ABV would be too light in color....
lwien
Well-Known Member
Keep in mind that the girl on the right that was blowing out the densest vapor did not inhale.
OnCloud8
Vapor Vixen
I just noticed this, they have an "extended cut" of the video where they dump the abv (at 3:10):
Wait really? It looks like she is inhaling to me.
The thing that really put me off my chance to pre-order was how much the girls cough on each hit...that makes me think the vapor is uncomfortably hot.
Mr.tuffyino-h-i-o
Well-Known Member
I'm still 
scratching my head from the video on 3/15 to the video with the two females on 4/15
The vapor from the video about a month ago was weak and the temp was on 4....now the video on 4/15 was on medium and looked like combustion type clouds. ????
I past on pre-ordering twice now but keeping a close eye on this grasshopper
I have a great portable vape in the Pax, a half portable/desktop hitter in the Solo, and a desktop in Extreme Q (whip/bag)
Gotta keep taking the THC pills to control the VAS.
Haha
scratching my head from the video on 3/15 to the video with the two females on 4/15The vapor from the video about a month ago was weak and the temp was on 4....now the video on 4/15 was on medium and looked like combustion type clouds. ????
I past on pre-ordering twice now but keeping a close eye on this grasshopper
I have a great portable vape in the Pax, a half portable/desktop hitter in the Solo, and a desktop in Extreme Q (whip/bag)
Gotta keep taking the THC pills to control the VAS.
Haha
OnCloud8
Vapor Vixen
Modnote: Rule-breaking, deleted quote from another manufacturer removed.
lol, yeah indeed. Not exactly a high resolution Zoom In there, although from the *very* fuzzy image it does look like the ABV is brown not black....but like everything else about the presentation, it's hard to feel secure that what you see is really what you will get....except for a sore throat, that seems to be assured.
Unprofessional? Sure, I agree, but I'm also not sure what people would expect from these young people and their crowd-funded vape...it doesn't seem like anyone involved in the project is over 25...which is probably why they thought it would get us excited to see college age kids coughing up a lung with each hit...
As always, I'm reserving my own personal judgement until some FC testers get their hands on an actual unit. But I'm feeling more and more that I made the right choice to let my pre-order window come and go.
lol, yeah indeed. Not exactly a high resolution Zoom In there, although from the *very* fuzzy image it does look like the ABV is brown not black....but like everything else about the presentation, it's hard to feel secure that what you see is really what you will get....except for a sore throat, that seems to be assured.
Unprofessional? Sure, I agree, but I'm also not sure what people would expect from these young people and their crowd-funded vape...it doesn't seem like anyone involved in the project is over 25...which is probably why they thought it would get us excited to see college age kids coughing up a lung with each hit...
As always, I'm reserving my own personal judgement until some FC testers get their hands on an actual unit. But I'm feeling more and more that I made the right choice to let my pre-order window come and go.
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