Discontinued The Grasshopper

[Baron23]

My GH is still working well, but I don't daily drive it. But its in the rotation. I'm very grateful for that.

But, as I continue to read postings about GH failure rates/modes I can't help but want to scream out:

Hopper Labs...what the fuck are you doing about your high failure rates and poor shipped product quality!! SPEAK TO US!

Yeah, little email newsletters with glowing reports of their new manf automation, etc are nice.....BUT THEY ARE AVOIDING THE GORILLA SITTING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM! That being the continued high rate of failure and just general hinky failure modes.

Ok, that's off my back. But many amongst us (incl me) that LOVE our GH, nonetheless will not recommend it to another vaper due to failure rates. Their high failure rates are impacting their reputation, this is acerbated by their refusal to directly speak to the issue (are they running for President and I didn't notice?), and reputation is hard to recover once lost.

I can think of one other manf whose product, acerbated by their rotten stonewalling communications, has to have limited sales of what should have been a block buster. This can, may already have, happened to GH.

 

[moondog]

It blows my mind that after waiting for almost a year, then having the intense anticipation for a week, that you were able to just look at two hoppers (or were you?) and then use a different vape instead. Willpower, indeed!

Blue Tac is not a panacea. It notably hasn't received nearly the scrutiny here that, say, Deoxit went thru, with MSDS and all... the Blue-Tac has been largely accepted on face value, i.e. "hey, leaves no residue, but I wipe it with a cloth anyways..." Just sayin'. I do happen to still use it without too much worry.
I see gunky stuff come off of the threads, yes, but it has not instantly fixed either my SS nor Ti hopper, at least on nothing more than than a suspicion that it may have, very short term. I do like clean, smooth threads and it's good for that.

Threads on my Ti are a bit rougher as well, rougher to the touch and slightly tighter to rotate. Blue Tac does help this.

Excuse my bent toward realism this morning. As of last night, I achieved the "both of my hoppers die simultaneously" status you just referred to. It's becoming a merry-go-round, though believe it or not I'm fine with it so far. A second replacement body for SS is arriving today! And I'll file third warranty claim on Ti today. (both came to me originally on 4th of August). Of note is that each of the five warranty claims resulted in a replaced Body. *(edit- Claim #5 is actually not filed yet, but signs indicate Body problem)* One back end stays pretty cool, the other ("SS") gets hot often.
I agree with @MoltenTiger, who recently said it seems we're getting more than our money's worth! That's ringing true this morning.

Yeah, I surprised myself with that but at this point it may just be perversity on my part. Anyway, I'm sorry you're suffering the double whammy. Thankfully, you'll have the new SS body today. Seems to point to the wisdom of having two hoppers in rotation if you can afford it.

My GH is still working well, but I don't daily drive it. But its in the rotation. I'm very grateful for that.

But, as I continue to read postings about GH failure rates/modes I can't help but want to scream out:

Hopper Labs...what the fuck are you doing about your high failure rates and poor shipped product quality!! SPEAK TO US!

Yeah, little email newsletters with glowing reports of their new manf automation, etc are nice.....BUT THEY ARE AVOIDING THE GORILLA SITTING IN THE MIDDLE OF THE ROOM! That being the continued high rate of failure and just general hinky failure modes.

Ok, that's off my back. But many amongst us (incl me) that LOVE our GH, nonetheless will not recommend it to another vaper due to failure rates. Their high failure rates are impacting their reputation, this is acerbated by their refusal to directly speak to the issue (are they running for President and I didn't notice?), and reputation is hard to recover once lost.

I can think of one other manf whose product, acerbated by their rotten stonewalling communications, has to have limited sales of what should have been a block buster. This can, may already have, happened to GH.

I agree with your thoughts about the QC gorilla, but I would totally understand if they did respond and the answer was an equally frustrated scream of: "If we stop pumping units out the door long enough to try to get a handle on QC, you'll be screaming at us about all the delays in sending out hoppers."

Seems like pumping units out the door and having the lifetime warranty with as smooth a warranty process as possible is the (admittedly not perfect) best compromise at this point. Perhaps "units keep failing but at least they have an amazing warranty that they work hard to honor" is a better rep than "those blankety-blanks took our money and are not shipping units for over a year and we should tell Paypal and start a class-action lawsuit and where's my pitchfork?" that they were getting before. So they decided to go all out on working through the backlog as quick as possible.

But this is all conjecture on my part as I procrastinate getting ready to leave the house.

 

[JoeMama]

Has anyone else soaked their back end in ISO?

That sounds new to me.

Nope. Not gonna do it, either.

 

[btka]

Has anyone else soaked their back end in ISO?

That sounds new to me.

no never...
hearing this the first time.... maybe he confused mouthpiece with backend....
I would not soak my backend in iso... why should I...

 

[Baron23]

I agree with your thoughts about the QC gorilla, but I would totally understand if they did respond and the answer was an equally frustrated scream of: "If we stop pumping units out the door long enough to try to get a handle on QC, you'll be screaming at us about all the delays in sending out hoppers."

Its not an either/or situation to me. Any reputable manf of consumer goods needs to turn out a quality product and fulfill order commitments. This is business 101 and vape manf are not exempt in my view.

Perhaps "units keep failing but at least they have an amazing warranty that they work hard to honor" is a better rep

There is no such thing and something for nothing and at this rate of warranty repair, I fear for their financial viability over all.

Cheers

 

[invertedisdead]

Its not an either/or situation to me. Any reputable manf of consumer goods needs to turn out a quality product and fulfill order commitments. This is business 101 and vape manf are not exempt in my view.



There is no such thing and something for nothing and at this rate of warranty repair, I fear for their financial viability over all.

Cheers

Spot on Baron, I'm surprised people feel they are getting their moneys worth out of a great warranty service, how about a working vaporizer? Perhaps some aren't familiar with the old adage, "the best warranty is the one you don't have to use." A company could go bankrupt fast this way, it's why the auto companies keep known problems on the hush until there is enough consumer feedback that they need to make a recall and clear their "good name"

I'm personally quite turned off from this company as someone that has been watching this product develop for almost 4 years, in fact I criticized this company years ago for putting out a misleading Indiegogo campaign that set the impression they were almost finished. Backers desperately waited for update emails and were constantly let down about parts just starting to be developed that appeared complete in the crowdfunding campaign. Months of updates just on the clicker, the release date being pushed back month to month for YEARS. What I dislike the most is they seem to have done what they waited 4 years trying not to do. I loved the "we're not gonna release it until we get it right" attitude of this company, which is why I've STILL been following this product, but somewhere along the way they just said fuck it and started sending units? I don't understand what made this product any more ready to ship when it did than 4 years ago if they still don't have the kinks worked out. Are we supposed to believe they thought they nailed it? Does anybody there even use a vaporizer?

These companies need to be held reliable for not doing enough research and development, I'd like to see these companies actually put a pound of material through a unit before deeming it ready for public, show me that reliability. Volcano has it. I remember them talking about how many hundreds of thousands of clicks the button is good for lol, but how any hundreds of grams will it vaporize before it breaks?

 

[vapviking]

Spot on Baron, I'm surprised people feel they are getting their moneys worth out of a great warranty service, how about a working vaporizer? Perhaps some aren't familiar with the old adage, "the best warranty is the one you don't have to use." A company could go bankrupt fast this way, it's why the auto companies keep known problems on the hush until there is enough consumer feedback that they need to make a recall and clear their "good name"

I agree in principle with a lot of your feelings, though I will say I've enjoyed the ride despite so many of the things that piss some folks off.

I feel like I'm getting a lot more than I paid for...

I agree with @MoltenTiger, who recently said it seems we're getting more than our money's worth!

I mis-quoted @MoltenTiger as you can see, and I confounded the meaning with getting good service (it is good service, but that was not the point). The spirit I believe that I was attempting to endorse was one of, "Holy Crap, it must be costing HL a lot to keep shipping me new parts!"
I hope they can keep it up until they actually can produce a more reliable Hopper.

 

[huk_huk]

What leads you to think that they didn't put some hundred of hours on 5 to test the design? At least they had a station to test it non stop. My guess is that a lot of the errors came from the assembly and they changed the assembly methods often. The design should be fine there are a lot of hoppers which probably have days of vaping through a bubbler on their back. I think the comparison with the Volcano is not fair since it uses a lot of parts which were tested and improved in other applications than a vape. The GH has a lot of special designed parts.
I just hope they make profit because it's my favorite vape

 

[invertedisdead]

I agree in principle with a lot of your feelings, though I will say I've enjoyed the ride despite so many of the things that piss some folks off.



I mis-quoted @MoltenTiger as you can see, and I confounded the meaning with getting good service (it is good service, but that was not the point). The spirit I believe that I was attempting to endorse was one of, "Holy Crap, it must be costing HL a lot to keep shipping me new parts!"
I hope they can keep it up until they actually can produce a more reliable Hopper.

Great warranty service is always admirable and impressive, I was just hoping it wouldn't be "necessary" as it's proving to be with this unit. What sold me on their lifetime warranty was the thought of not having to use it, Trevor assuring each update that this vape wouldn't release until it was dialed in.

 

[CapitalFlower]

So, I finally get a notification that my Grasshopper has arrived at my post office depot, a year since I purchased it. I then found out that I have to pay £45 in customs charges. So not only did I have to wait a huge amount of time, the Grasshopper team were not even gracious enough to mark down the value a bit so I didn't get slammed with charges on arrival. All in all it has worked out to be a very expensive purchase when factoring in shipping and customs charges.

This is a warning to anyone in the UK buying a Grasshopper: Don't purchase from the GH site, purchase from VapeFiend. It will be much cheaper, and sending it back for inevitable returns will be a lot easier.

 

[Kalessin]

So, I finally get a notification that my Grasshopper has arrived at my post office depot, a year since I purchased it. I then found out that I have to pay £45 in customs charges. So not only did I have to wait a huge amount of time, the Grasshopper team were not even gracious enough to mark down the value a bit so I didn't get slammed with charges on arrival. All in all it has worked out to be a very expensive purchase when factoring in shipping and customs charges.

This is a warning to anyone in the UK buying a Grasshopper: Don't purchase from the GH site, purchase from VapeFiend. It will be much cheaper, and sending it back for inevitable returns will be a lot easier.

I don't think it's really fair to expect Hopper Labs to lie and break the law so you can save some money. With the constant warranty needs, the last thing they need is to get in legal trouble and have to waste money on that.

 

[invertedisdead]

What leads you to think that they didn't put some hundred of hours on 5 to test the design? At least they had a station to test it non stop. My guess is that a lot of the errors came from the assembly and they changed the assembly methods often. The design should be fine there are a lot of hoppers which probably have days of vaping through a bubbler on their back. I think the comparison with the Volcano is not fair since it uses a lot of parts which were tested and improved in other applications than a vape. The GH has a lot of special designed parts.
I just hope they make profit because it's my favorite vape

What leads me to think? How about the constant problems owners are having?

I don't see what's wrong with the Volcano comment, these guys were aerospace engineer geniuses?

I don't want you to think I'm just calling out Hopper Labs, there are plenty of vapes on the market that can't handle the "pound test" but it's an incredibly HONEST test in my opinion. We all want a product that will stand the test of time, how many pounds can you vape before it dies?

 

[MoltenTiger]

I'm loving having a working hopper.
It's a bit of a mismatch over here atm, I stripped the mouthpiece threads on my blue unit last night. They poorly matched with the replaced body, and I guess it just gave way.
Already sorted, HL've chucked a new one in my incoming order, and I've officially jumped off the SS case bandwagon in favour of testing some brand new GHB2s.
I figure with new bodies I may as well start another cycle with some fresh cells. I'll palm the others off to my mate and watch for how long they last.
I had to pay postage for the order, and they are sending it in a box so it doesn't get destroyed by bogan package handlers!

Blue Tac is not a panacea. It notably hasn't received nearly the scrutiny here that, say, Deoxit went thru, with MSDS and all... the Blue-Tac has been largely accepted on face value, i.e. "hey, leaves no residue, but I wipe it with a cloth anyways..." Just sayin'. I do happen to still use it without too much worry.

I'm pretty sure I checked out MSDS's after looking up the basic composition of blu-tack before mentioning it here. A quick google again reveals no real concern. It's not safe to breathe in smoke due to hazardous decomposition products, but other than that it is quite safe, even if eaten.
MSDS: http://ordermax.com.au/documents/msds_1152572_0800.pdf (data sheets from raw composition materials are much more informative but a little harder to find)

I also found this which I thought is worth noting: (via: http://www.neverseezproducts.com/msds/BluTack.pdf)

BONDING INSTRUCTIONS

1. 1. Make certain that the surfaces to which BOSTIK BLU-TACK is to be applied are clean, dry and free from dust, grease and loose surface material.
      
      
   2. Simply tear off the amount of BOSTIK BLU-TACK required, pull and stretch until supple, then roll into a ball. Place this between the surfaces to be fastened and PRESS HARD.
   REMOVAL: To remove BOSTIK BLU-TACK roll it CAREFULLY off the surface. It can then be used again and again. Any remaining shreds can be removed by rolling or dabbing a blob of BOSTIK BLU-TACK over the surfaces.
   
   NOTE: The adhesive properties of BOSTIK BLU-TACK increase with time so take extra care when removing it after a period of months. On some surfaces BOSTIK BLU-TACK may leave an oily mark but this can sometimes be removed by lighter fuel (flammable) or proprietary chewing gum remover (nonflammable).

The amount of residue from our application is minute, and can easily be flushed away from the material. Generally oil is left after pro-longed exposure to pourus material, so it's unlikely to be an issue for simple thread cleaning.

Overall cleaning the threads often will extend their life. In terms of performance enhancement, clean threads are probably beneficial, but there's no affirmed benefit otherwise.

Has anyone else soaked their back end in ISO?

This is on-par with deoxIT use or conductive grease, i.e. not recommendable.
It might be a good way to clean the backend but, I mean I got a replacement back-end because mine was dysfunctional. I know it to be dysfunctional because I can actively compare it with a proper working order component. If you're having issues, you'll be much better off replacing faulty parts than potentially voiding your warranty

 

[btka]

What leads me to think? How about the constant problems owners are having?

I don't see what's wrong with the Volcano comment, these guys were aerospace engineer geniuses?

I don't want you to think I'm just calling out Hopper Labs, there are plenty of vapes on the market that can't handle the "pound test" but it's an incredibly HONEST test in my opinion. We all want a product that will stand the test of time, how many pounds can you vape before it dies?

compare crafty/mighty and also other portable vapes with gh.... as far as I know they also have problems and a lot 7f people are using warranty and they do not give you lifetime warranty...

volcano is a desktop, much larger, exists more then 10 years and so on... you really ca not compare both they are not the same thing at the end

 

[invertedisdead]

compare crafty/mighty and also other portable vapes with gh.... as far as I know they also have problems and a lot 7f people are using warranty and they do not give you lifetime warranty...

volcano is a desktop, much larger, exists more then 10 years and so on... you really ca not compare both they are not the same thing at the end

I'm only comparing the durability of two vaporizers. Desktop vs portable is irrelevant in the durability of a vaporizer. Look at Omnivap. I'm not worshiping Storz & Bickel. Their portables were anticipated to have the durability of Volcano and have let a lot of people down too. Perhaps their NEW engineers were not aware of the POUND TEST?

 

[btka]

I'm only comparing the durability of two vaporizers. Desktop vs portable is irrelevant in the durability of a vaporizer. Look at Omnivap. I'm not worshiping Storz & Bickel. Their portables were anticipated to have the durability of Volcano and have let a lot of people down too. Perhaps their NEW engineers were not aware of the POUND TEST?

in my opinion they are not the same... so I would not compare them..... (maybe if you could fit the volcano in a gh)
as someone earlier mentioned parts used in volcano are used in alot of devices and applications for many many years....

 

[MoltenTiger]

it must be costing HL a lot to keep shipping me new parts!

This was my main sentiment tbh.
I feel like they must be refurbishing parts, otherwise the costs would be astronomical with no one fronting it..

how many pounds can you vape before it dies?

There is plenty of device variance at this point. It's important to consider the rate of production and the continual developments we are seeing. Not only have they redesigned components numerous times, they've also visited manufacturing facilities which have seen revamped processes and even moving to new work space. They've introduced plenty of teething issues as they've gradually expanded.
I like the idea of a pound test, but first they need to prove consistency with device quality (otherwise it's meaningless), and to achieve that they need a period of consistent production. It's been a long process for them, but they're working through it. I do have concerns for the financial viability, but they're soldiering on well enough.

Desktop vs portable is irrelevant in the durability of a vaporizer.

The main difference is device size, and when you're dealing with compact high-temperature internal mechanics, the complexity is very disparate.
My EQ is durable af because it's simple and massive. The hoppers are smart devices with many points of potential failure. The very nature is so different they are incomparable.
Ideally it would be great to have a portable vape as durable as my EQ, but it won't be happening with a device the size of the hopper. It's like Jupiter vs. the earth.

 

[invertedisdead]

I think the Volcano comment is relevant because I'm not interested in defending old technology. I have an old Volcano. I don't think it's strange to expect new modern technology to outperform 20 year old tech. Isn't that the spirit of innovation in the first place?

I just want to see real innovation, I don't want to see more new cars that get worse fuel economy than old cars.

The fact of the matter is the Grasshopper (ZenPen) was very much touted as being able to replace a desktop vaporizer originally. I was expecting this to be the most rock solid vaporizer on the market based on the teams commitment to not release the unit they had it just right. I waxed poetic in this thread for years about this unit being the end all be all.

 

[Tranquility]

I think the Volcano comment is relevant because I'm not interested in defending old technology. I have an old Volcano. I don't think it's strange to expect new modern technology to outperform 20 year old tech. Isn't that the spirit of innovation in the first place?

I just want to see real innovation, I don't want to see more new cars that get worse fuel economy than old cars.

The fact of the matter is the Grasshopper (ZenPen) was very much touted as being able to replace a desktop vaporizer originally. I was expecting this to be the most rock solid vaporizer on the market based on the teams commitment to not release the unit they had it just right. I waxed poetic in this thread for years about this unit being the end all be all.

http://pizzaoven.co.nz/history-of-wood-fired-pizza-ovens/

Do you think the final oven makes better pizza?

At the end of the day, we are making hot air. All the rich Corrinthian leather added doesn't change that. Just because my microwave has a button I can push that will heat a cup of water does not mean I can't do the same with setting the time and pushing go. One is a little easier but both get me hot water.

 

[invertedisdead]

http://pizzaoven.co.nz/history-of-wood-fired-pizza-ovens/

Do you think the final oven makes better pizza?

Of course, a conveyor oven cannot replicate a deck oven cannot replicate a coal oven cannot replicate a wood oven in relation to making a pizza. Desired outcome is a prerequisite to choosing the tool. They are still innovating wood fired ovens.

 

[Tranquility]

Of course, a conveyor oven cannot replicate a deck oven cannot replicate a coal oven cannot replicate a wood oven in relation to making a pizza. Desired outcome is a prerequisite to choosing the tool. They are still innovating wood fired ovens.

From the link:

Authentic Oven Limited are passionate about creating quality wood fired ovens. They have incorporated all the best features of the traditional wood ovens using modern heat retaining materials. Each oven is hand crafted from start to finish and can be custom designed to fit into your outdoor setting. Imagine being able to entertain with style and flare with your own outdoor wood-fired oven!
​

Doing everything the traditional wood ovens did--USING MODERN MATERIALS!!!

That's gotta be good, right?

 

[invertedisdead]

Doing everything the traditional wood ovens did--USING MODERN MATERIALS!!!

That's gotta be good, right?

In theory; although innovation does seem to go backwards often, like I said about new cars with worse fuel economy. I have faith in great design though.

 

[Baron23]

I think we may be wondering a bit.

My opinion only, but I go back to my view that ANY manufacturer of goods needs to provide that functions well (and function includes reliability, availability, durability, and maintainability) and produce/deliver/support as promised.

In my experience, ONLY in the vape and MJ environment are people giving a pass to vendors (well, actually actively defending them) who fall short in one or more of these areas because, after all, we are brave new explorers on the brink of huge cannabis paradigm shift ().

These are consumer devices made by companies wanting to sell consumer devices. Until we refuse to accept high failure rates, designs that seem to only work for some people, flaky and unpredictable behavior, etc will see real change. And by refuse to accept I mean don't buy the shit.

I love my GH....cause it works, works well, and is an outlier in that I have had no issues with it so far (over 5-6 months now maybe?) If I had to go through the multiple warranty process that some you have, my view would be very much more tainted.

Just my view of it, mates.

 

[Tranquility]

In my experience, ONLY in the vape and MJ environment are people giving a pass to vendors (well, actually actively defending them) who fall short in one or more of these areas because, after all, we are brave new explorers on the brink of huge cannabis paradigm shift ().

These are consumer devices made by companies wanting to sell consumer devices. Until we refuse to accept high failure rates, designs that seem to only work for some people, flaky and unpredictable behavior, etc will see real change. And by refuse to accept I mean don't buy the shit.

I love my GH....cause it works, works well, and is an outlier in that I have had no issues with it so far (over 5-6 months now maybe?) If I had to go through the multiple warranty process that some you have, my view would be very much more tainted.

Just my view of it, mates.

I've got a great copy of No Man's Sky for the PS4 I could let go cheap. My step-son bought it with a pre-order and needs to get rid of it so he can pre-order a different one. (Destiny, Assassin's Creed Unity and Watch Dogs can probably move into the let go "cheap" category also. )

Myself? I stopped with StarCraft when they required me to be online all the time. I'll be nothing more than an old player of old games if publishers continue to require that.

(Point being, let's add at least one environment to the ONLY one where people are given some crap and they hold up their bowls and ask for more.)

 

[MoltenTiger]

able to replace a desktop vaporizer

It has replaced my desktop, and any want for a different desktop.
It is innovative, but not perfect.
There are limitations to its design; power, smooth vapour, durability.
Bearable downsides, but worth considering.

If I had to go through the multiple warranty process that some you have, my view would be very much more tainted.

A fair point, and I certainly have a neat collection of cases now, but they've handled them all easily enough it becomes a non-issue. If you are vaping daily it's not much extended effort to have a back up to avoid waiting on service. I can understand how that could be a deciding factor in owning a hopper, but it's the deciding factor for me to have two, because my other back up options are crap comparatively. One day I'll replace the hopper as my daily driver, but I've yet to find a better option