Discontinued The Grasshopper

Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
Have you ever even done a chargeback?



I don't know anything about the Gaia, but the Argo (and all Arizer portables) are heated via conduction.

As for the TinyMight, it looks pretty dope, the early reviews are quite stellar, however potential uneven heating turns me off of it, as does the nuts/bolts metal cooling unit in the vapour path.
Thanks. I thought with the return of my Ti from RMA I’d be holding off on obtaining a new vape, just because (maybe VAS but my collection is tiny compared to many), but with the battery warning and my old ones not holding out much longer for an enjoyable Hopper experience (again) it’s time to get a new one - and do some research on it now(!).

Nothing about the story makes me think the batteries are ticking time bombs.
I agree and won’t throw away my new ones received a couple of weeks ago. They worked fine for me and better than my old ones (see one of my posts above). I just won’t use them for now until more information is out there about the circumstances of the HL fire - if we ever know...:peace:
 

MonkeyTime

Well-Known Member
Sorry for off-topic but that changed for the latest delivered units, check the thread.:tup:
Are we sure about that? I know it was talked about, but what do the newer units use then?

To me it sounded like it was an idea, but never caught momentum...
 
MonkeyTime,

vapviking

Old & In the Way
IF HL was well insured (big if), the main loss here may be time (as usual).
A few years ago we removed an old fuel oil tank from the ground in out backyard. A leak was discovered and (of course!) reported to the state DEC. Our insurance company kicked in because we fit in the narrow case that they cover in such spills (forget about it if the spills goes to neighboring properties, for instance).
The process found an area 2oft x 40ft x 8ft deep , the replacement of which (and remediation of same) was on the order of $140,000 USD. The remediation folks did a great job of it and planted grass seed and re-piped my drains that go to a dry well, etc., etc. Not one penny out of pocket for me, quite amazing, and my backyard got a makeover, plus clean bill of health for the DEC.

For HL I can envision a scenario that kicks in a lot of money for a rush battery order, all new equipment and a nice re-boot for the whole operation. Most of 2020 shot to hell, but...
 

Hammahead

Well-Known Member
First of all - what did they do to deserve this? Glad nobody got hurt and we will all see how this is going to unravel. I'm pretty sure it's just too early to give a real perspective or even tell what exactly is the material damage. I didn't read their messages as "everything is gone, nothing is left" so as a chronic pessimist who's experiencing happy surprises all the time, I could imagine there's light at the end of the tunnel when the smoke disappears... if there's a tunnel at all after all this.

Which brings me to this: what I don't really get is how people just try to draw their money out of it BEFORE they even have the slightest idea of what is up in the near or distant future. As it's been said, when Hopper Labs go down, all Hoppers are sooner or later just expensive paper weights. So it's likely that those who rush things might fuck it up for those who choose to be patient. And, frankly speaking, I have difficulties imagining someone on a super tight budget buying a comparably expensive and notoriously failing unit like the hopper. I do not agree that "business is business", a struggling start-up is something very different than ie Amazon. But I won't judge on people just executing their rights. Well, yeah, apparently I sorta do...

it’s time to get a new one - and do some research on it now(!).

In my hopperless times the Splinter Z really grew on me as it offers the same key features I love about the Hopper: the sheer power and the few seconds heat up time. I would miss my Splinter a lot more than I'd miss my Hopper.
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
As far as the extent of damage, it is true that we don’t know.

But more concerning than actual fire, if it was small, is the smoke particles, water damage, and the corrosive effects when the two mix.

The fire may have been restricted, but you will never be able to clean and use electronic components that have been exposed to smoke and water vapor. I imagine their board stuffer machine and similar would also be trashed or severely damaged.

Some one mentioned it above, that is, if Hopper doesn’t have the resources to reinitiate manf, they may sell off the product to someone w deep pockets who can. I would suspect that in such a sale of IP, that Hopper’s liability for outstanding orders and warrant work would not convey to the new owners.
 

Roland Blaze

Well-Known Member
Shout out to Vapefiend UK, who have responded to the potential battery issue admirably by phoning and emailing customers :). So lucky to have a great vape shop to rival any other around the world. Customer service at its best. Thanks Adam and the crew.
 
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Custom Flower Hardware

Well-Known Member
Manufacturer
On Nov 15, 2019, at 11:31 AM, Support <support@grasshoppervape.com> wrote:

Hi Gerald,

Thanks for contacting us. We have placed your order on the list for refund. Please allow some time for this to happen while we make the necessary arrangements. We are sorry for any inconvenience this might cause you and are working as fast as possible to resolve the situation.

Thanks,

Hopper Labs Support
:tup:
 

Baron23

Well-Known Member
If anyone has a Hopper they want to donate to us, working or not, we could use another backend at least for testing.
Sorry, I have a SS body I can donate, but not an extra back end.

If you want the body, please just PM me with shipping address and I will send it along.

It runs a bit cool (that's the heater for you) but does function and perhaps that will be helpful in development of your plug in power fixture.

By the by, if you do bring that product to fruition, I am most def interested in buying one.
 

Tranquility

Well-Known Member
Some one mentioned it above, that is, if Hopper doesn’t have the resources to reinitiate manf, they may sell off the product to someone w deep pockets who can. I would suspect that in such a sale of IP, that Hopper’s liability for outstanding orders and warrant work would not convey to the new owners.
If they are BK (As a reality, not at law--yet.), they don't get to prioritize creditors. If they do, anything received can be disgorged or clawed back from anyone who paid less than the FMV for any assets purchased.

So, if they sell pieces of the business, they have to get full value for it and use it to fulfill warranty and other promises without favor. If they get less, it could all go away with an objection.

Usually, when a business sells its assets rather than as a whole, the owners make sure all the creditors are handled. A managing member would be a fool to take a chance otherwise. Because it is his personal choice to benefit some creditors over others, the LLC wrapper probably won't protect him. ("Probably" because he certainly can make a case that he did what was best for all and it was not a preferential or fraudulent transfer.)

If there is a sale before a BK filing, I suspect part of the sale will include the assignment of warranties to the new owner as well as the duty to provide vapes to all who have purchased them. If a sale after BK, anyone who gets anything should be happy.

Also, with an LLC, it can be really hard to get money loaned against the entity. Almost every time I've seen, the bank is going to want a personal guarantee for any money lent.

This whole thing is obviously bad for the company, its members and the stakeholders who own or hope to own their vape. It would be terrible if a fire prevents a good idea from coming to full fruition. Like others wrote before we can't know the full extent of the problem until they tell us. It does seem like they need to come up with a plan and communicate it quickly or the magic will be lost.
 

Old_muel

Well-Known Member
So got my hopper back just days before the fire after over a year in purgatory, along with new batteries & it's actually working like a champ. Seems to me like this battery safety bullshit is exactly that, they didn't even say they suspect the batteries caused the fire, let alone any proof of it. Anyone like @KeroZen know if defective lithium batteries can just fail after initially working fine for a significant amount of cycles? I suspect if they were gonna fail they'd do it straight away no? Dunno bout you guys but so far i see no valid reason to stop using mine so won't be.
Oh and a hopper mains power adapter - I'll buy one instantly @maxvapor710 make it happen dude
 

Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
Dunno bout you guys but so far i see no valid reason to stop using mine so won't be.
While my new batteries remain on ice, er kitty litter, I’ve got an itchy finger to start using them again. My remaining old batts are almost useless and I want to enjoy my Hopper again after its year-long stint in RMAville too (I got it back late September). I’d really like to hear more about the cause of the fire and how the batteries are implicated but I’d been using the new ones for a couple of weeks without any issue.

I’ll impatiently wait a bit longer since my Hopper simply works better with the new ones. TGIF! :leaf::peace:
 

KeroZen

Chronic vapaholic
@Old_muel: I don't want to give dangerous recommendations to anyone. I'm not following this thread, I don't own a GH, just been summoned here by a fellow member to give my opinion on the state of affairs.

Li-Ion cells can fail in several ways. When they fail during charge, most often it's because the charger was out of spec (i.e. charged too fast, or didn't cut before 4.2V / wrong threshold value, or charged too long a struggling cell which then overheated and entered thermal runaway, aka venting + possible fire) This is why the first recommendation you will see everywhere is to never charge them unattended. Also a working charger might fail for some reason and yield out of specs conditions, so it's never 100% safe.

Then during use cells can fail if they get damaged, punctured or shorted, that's the most obvious cases and I don't think that's what happened here (unless for some reason this batch has physical defects in its insulation that can create a short condition say when you insert the cell in the device for instance) In the ubiquitous 18650 cell format for example, when you remove the insulating plastic wrap, you'll see that at the top of the cell the negative and positive regions are only a few millimeters apart and it's quite easy to short them.

But the more problematic failure case is when the cells are under-rated for the load they need to provide. Say if for instance they ordered cells with a 20A CDR (i.e. constant discharge rate) but the factory fumbled for one reason or another (bad batch, process failure, giving them B grades out of greed to save money, or any other reason really) and they only got cells able to sustain 10A CDR.

When you exceed the cell discharge rating, it will get hot while discharging and it will damage the cell permanently. This damage increases the cell internal resistance (IR), which in turn will also further decrease the cell CDR as well as making the cell voltage sag even more under load, it's a vicious cycle. In an unregulated vape you would immediately notice the poor performance, the vape would feel anemic or cold running. But in a regulated system it's even more vicious, the vape will try to make the cell work harder to compensate its bad performance and put more strain on it.

So if you notice a suspiciously short run time or if after a session when you remove the cell it feels abnormally hot (hard to tell in such a small device as everything gets hot in a confined space like that) I would advise you to stop using that cell ASAP. It might work for a while but as the cell deteriorates it will run hotter and hotter. When it reaches about 120°C during use it will enter thermal runaway and it's game over... for your hand, your face, possibly your house and your belongings due to the fire... or worse.
 
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Hammahead

Well-Known Member
[The splinter] looks like Fred Flinstones butt plug

I run it on a box mod with genuine fake wood panels and keep it in a dark hand-carved rosewood box, so I'd refer to it as early steampunk, but given I look quite a bit like old Fred, I'm not even mad at your reference.

However, it needs to be mentioned it's a pretty bold notion in a thread dealing with a thing that looks like Bender's pecker ;)
 
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vapviking

Old & In the Way
In my hopperless times the Splinter Z really grew on me as it offers the same key features I love about the Hopper: the sheer power and the few seconds heat up time. I would miss my Splinter a lot more than I'd miss my Hopper.
Yeah, what you said ^. I have a V1+.
I'm also excited to have my first Milaana (new M3) on order, and btw RBT is having a flash sale (-33%) this weekend. Sorry to advertise while HL is down.

So, a recently renewed (1 year rma'd) Ti hopper will not work at all with my older batts (it had just hit its' stride with the new ones...). That one will be stowed, batteries going into fireproof bag. Again with the time capsule strategy!

But a second one that's about 18 months old (has had body-internal work and 4 replacement backends) is doing quite well. Last night it went 3 chambers with an older GHB2, with some Black Mambo Kush organic homegrown. Thick and rich, yum. Unfortunately for me, this is the hopper my wife loves to take with her...
 

slozukimc

Well-Known Member
I run it on a box mod with genuine fake wood panels and keep it in a dark hand-carved rosewood box, so I'd refer to it as early steampunk, but given I look quite a bit like old Fred, I'm not even mad at your reference.

However, it needs to be mentioned it's a pretty bold notion in a thread dealing with a thing that looks like Bender's pecker ;)
Bender and Grasshopper. Both great ideas in vapes. Let’s hope one can survive.

how I feel:

https://www.reddit.com/r/GrassHoppe...urce=share&utm_medium=ios_app&utm_name=iossmf
 
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mephisto

Well-Known Member
I wish the best for Hopper labs, I did not receive a response to my request for a refund. Having the
money to "afford" a hopper does not erase the fact that products were paid for and most likely unable to be provided. Compassion is great, we could all use this virtue more. The bottom line is that I have already "given" Hopper labs the money upfront for things that never came to fruition. That money helped get them started, my recent purchases were for existing products. If they don't have the product available, then a refund is the correct solution. No hard feelings, its just business. I hope for the rest of this debacle to be resolved quickly, and in the best manner possible.
 

slozukimc

Well-Known Member
I wish the best for Hopper labs, I did not receive a response to my request for a refund. Having the
money to "afford" a hopper does not erase the fact that products were paid for and most likely unable to be provided. Compassion is great, we could all use this virtue more. The bottom line is that I have already "given" Hopper labs the money upfront for things that never came to fruition. That money helped get them started, my recent purchases were for existing products. If they don't have the product available, then a refund is the correct solution. No hard feelings, its just business. I hope for the rest of this debacle to be resolved quickly, and in the best manner possible.
Agreed 100% for products you ordered but never got. My comments are more directed toward folks that already received products, have used them and want money back.
 

Hammahead

Well-Known Member
^ this ^ - I could have made this clearer. I don't expect anyone to pay Hopper Labs for nothing, but drawing back funds based on the assumption one might not be able to use it on a later date - again: - without even knowing what the deal's going to be, just feels wrong to me. Please read this carefully before answering. It's my personal feeling, not a fatwa. Different people can have different feelings about the same thing. I'm guilty of being an itsy bit judgmental here, but I'm in no way trying to tell anyone what to do or not.
 
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