Discontinued The Grasshopper

[slozukimc]

Beginning of the end. Never sensed my batteries were the problem but with the amount of people needing batteries and the longgggg wait I'm sure HL will say it's a battery issue and you need the newest battery yaddah yaddah but in reality grasshopper still just aren't up to par.

I have 5 batteries. All ghb2’s. 3 are older and two are NOS I have been using daily for a couple months. The older ones all charge up to 4.2v and do work although I get only 3 or 4 bowls and a medium roast on high with flashy blue lights a lot. With the new ones I get 5 or 6 bowls, a darker roast, more consistent performance, a cooler back end and only get blue flashy lights just before the red ones indicating the battery is low.

Edit: Another thing I would like to add is that the performance I see with the Hopper with marginal batteries is very similar to what I have seen with box mods with a battery that isn’t up to the amp draw.

 

[Hopper Labs]

I don’t know if this has been answered yet, but do the hoppers that are shipping within one day of order come with new batteries? Or old ones from your existing stock?

If you order a new Hopper it will come with a new battery from our last production batch. Not the one that is yet to come in.

General queries;
Is there a simple process by which one can measure the integrity of their battery at home? I'm dependent on trial/error atm the moment. I have a Nitecore D2 charger that will run any of my batteries up to 4.2 volts, with a readout of that progress. I also have a small multi-tester that I've never used, not knowing how.
Secondary, is it the case that using an old battery can make for a really hot (Grasshopper) back end?

Some chargers will give you a capacity (amount of power they put into the battery) reading, but that is not a good indicator of true battery health for the hopper's battery. In some circumstances, you might be able to generalize battery health from that if you were tracking it over time. The charged voltage of a lithium battery tells you almost nothing. If the voltage is down below 2v, then you know it is likely dead and unrecoverable, but that is about it. Even an ancient, almost useless li-ion battery will generally charge to 4.2.

Testing the integrity of a battery is not very easy, especially in the circumstance the Hopper battery is used in. For an actual quantitative test, you need electronics to measure the battery performance under a load similar to that of the GH's heater. You need to chart this data to visualize it and obviously need some control data to compare it to. I won't go into it, but measuring battery health on an application that draws less current per cell is much easier.

One of the hard parts about getting the battery manufactured is that performance and capacity are not the same or directly related. A high-performance battery needs to hold a higher voltage under a given load for a longer period. Different balances in battery chemistry can yield different performance curves and various capacities.

The battery is also its own resistive load. This is known as its internal resistance. High-performance batteries have low internal resistance. The higher the resistance, the more loss there is in the battery itself manifested as heat. As the battery ages, the internal resistance will go up, causing more battery heating and less power delivery to the true load.

So really the best test you can do is charge up your battery and keep some metal (or physical) notes on how it performs and compare over time.

 

[slozukimc]

@hopperlabs

What is the maximum safe current to charge a healthy ghb2? I have always charged mine at .5a. Is 1A safe?

 

[Hopper Labs]

@hopperlabs

What is the maximum safe current to charge a healthy ghb2? I have always charged mine at .5a. Is 1A safe?

There should not be a problem with 1A. I can only speak to the safety of the supplied charger.

 

[slozukimc]

There should not be a problem with 1A. I can only speak to the safety of the supplied charger.

With the stock charger is the output dependent upon the amperage of the source you plug it into? For example my Apple charger is .5A but my HTC charger is 1.5A.

Thanks!!!

 

[Hopper Labs]

With the stock charger is the output dependent upon the amperage of the source you plug it into? For example my Apple charger is .5A but my HTC charger is 1.5A.

Thanks!!!

To some degree yes. The charger will use a varying amount of power depending on a few factors on the device itself. Yes, using it with a 1.5A or even 2A UL USB brick is totally fine.

 

[slozukimc]

To some degree yes. The charger will use a varying amount of power depending on a few factors on the device itself. Yes, using it with a 1.5A or even 2A UL USB brick is totally fine.

Thank you! That is good info and I really appreciate the super fast replies!!

 

[vapviking]

@Hopper Labs , thanks for the detailed reply!
Short answer, "It's complicated!"

The battery is also its own resistive load. This is known as its internal resistance. High-performance batteries have low internal resistance. The higher the resistance, the more loss there is in the battery itself manifested as heat. As the battery ages, the internal resistance will go up, causing more battery heating and less power delivery to the true load.

Is this possibly why the back-end can sometimes get really hot, really quickly?

 

[Hopper Labs]

@Hopper Labs , thanks for the detailed reply!
Short answer, "It's complicated!"

Is this possibly why the back-end can sometimes get really hot, really quickly?

It may contribute, but there are other factors at play with backend heating. There are a series of contacts inside the backend. The total resistance of these contacts is a significant value. The higher this resistance is, the more heat will be generated as we move power through the connections. Over the years of operation, some backends seem to exhibit more heating than others. This can be hard to quantify as simply working the dial back and forth could change the results quite a bit. We have taken steps and made improvements to our newest revisions to fix this problem. Here are a few things to consider:

1. If your backend seems to be getting hot rapidly during operation, make sure it is screwed very tightly onto the body of the device. This increases the spring pressure on all the contacts internally and makes the best possible connection with the body.

2. Working the dial back and forth can create a rubbing action on these internal contacts, which will help clean them.

3. Keeping the negative battery contact on the backend clean will help. If that is dirty, there can be a ton of loss just from the battery to that contact.

4. For warranty of "hot backend", we have some measurements we will do in-house. If the backend measurements are above determined thresholds, we will disassemble and fix the issue either through cleaning or contact/spring replacement with new versions. We do get users who still complain of hot backend after warranty and we are sorry for that but due to the factors outlined above, it is not always possible to reproduce above the threshold values during service.

 

[vapviking]

It may contribute, but there are other factors at play with backend heating. There are a series of contacts inside the backend. The total resistance of these contacts is a significant value. The higher this resistance is, the more heat will be generated as we move power through the connections. Over the years of operation, some backends seem to exhibit more heating than others. This can be hard to quantify as simply working the dial back and forth could change the results quite a bit. We have taken steps and made improvements to our newest revisions to fix this problem. Here are a few things to consider:

1. If your backend seems to be getting hot rapidly during operation, make sure it is screwed very tightly onto the body of the device. This increases the spring pressure on all the contacts internally and makes the best possible connection with the body.

2. Working the dial back and forth can create a rubbing action on these internal contacts, which will help clean them.

3. Keeping the negative battery contact on the backend clean will help. If that is dirty, there can be a ton of loss just from the battery to that contact.

4. For warranty of "hot backend", we have some measurements we will do in-house. If the backend measurements are above determined thresholds, we will disassemble and fix the issue either through cleaning or contact/spring replacement with new versions. We do get users who still complain of hot backend after warranty and we are sorry for that but due to the factors outlined above, it is not always possible to reproduce above the threshold values during service.

I'm a big fan of information. And Grasshoppers.

 

[mephisto]

Welcome back to the forum @Hopper Labs, as you can see the legion was starving for ANY information.
If you can appease @Baron23, you are moving in the right direction. Press on with pride, I will throw
some funds towards new batteries after the first wave gets doled out to those who have been waiting patiently. I have at least 10 GHB 2's to work through in the meantime.
Just can't get away from that Hopper vape signature!

 

[Baron23]

If you can appease @Baron23, you are moving in the right direction.

hahaha.....too true, mate. Too true.

@Hopper Labs - this is exactly the kind of communications that we have been pining for. Thank you.

Its my observation that the FC community will tolerate and be understanding about a lot as long.... as there is ongoing and transparent information exchange. So, please do keep it up.

Cheers

 

[Vaporific]

3. Keeping the negative battery contact on the backend clean will help. If that is dirty, there can be a ton of loss just from the battery to that contact.

Remind me/us again the recommended approach. ISO, Blu Tack, sandpaper or other? Please do keep up the occasional posts as they are appreciated and reassuring, and for me (and perhaps others) coaxing us back into the fold and positive side of things (instead of being negative, which I freely admit).

Indeed, new batteries soon would be great. Enjoying my Hopper anew (back from RMA) again - and it’s wonderdul though I’ve learned to use it on low temps natively now with the improved heater.

 

[Baron23]

Remind me/us again the recommended approach. ISO, Blu Tack, sandpaper or other?

Power washer, maybe? LOL

I should think any decent electronics contact cleaner will do, no?

Used to use Freon back in the days....but of course no more.

 

[Vaporific]

I should think any decent electronics contact cleaner will do, no?

Anything specific in mind? I’ve used gentle ISO infrequently in the past.

 

[Baron23]

Anything specific in mind? I’ve used gentle ISO infrequently in the past.

Ah...I'm not expert, but something like this or similar:

https://www.amazon.com/CRC-Plastic-...9YFG6A7XD8R&psc=1&refRID=PBEMP15HF9YFG6A7XD8R

or

https://www.amazon.com/BW-100-Nonfl...SYYMMYBJFBH&psc=1&refRID=N202GEKRMSYYMMYBJFBH

 

[Modicum]

What temps do the notches signify?

 

[Vaporific]

What temps do the notches signify?

36 degrees F, 266°F-410°F is the range.

 

[NOLOGO]

Anything specific in mind? I’ve used gentle ISO infrequently in the past.

I'm partial to this. Allows for very precise application.
DeoxIT Pen (NSN-6850-01-477-1444) 100% solution 6 mL https://smile.amazon.com/dp/B001EQ7H82/ref=cm_sw_r_cp_apa_i_x7aODbK0GMW4K

 

[MoltenTiger]

I got around to doing a deoxit clean - I got a pack with a cleaner/rejuvinator and a protecting agent (red and gold bottles). Tried it on two units, my third is on loan.

One of my units does get a hot back end, and it still does, so I suppose it's the internal contacts causing it for the most part. Although it did improve after I cleaned the external contacts, just not completely.

Deoxit does a more convincing job than bluetack, but I still keep that old flashlight trick on hand.

The unit that was already working well continues to work the same, so maybe I wasted 30 bucks on the deoxit pack, but I'll use it for more than just the hoppers.

On Reddit a couple people have posted about using WD40 contact cleaner to soak the back ends which apparently made a big improvement for them. That seems to be the go in terms of cleaning the back-end internals.

Great to see @Hopper Labs have made an appearance here again! Hope you guys have weathered the storm and have some more relaxing but exciting years ahead.

The hopper is a brilliant little gadget! It's one of my favourite modern devices, it does what it needs to, nothing more, and it doesn't spy on me! Can't say that for most digital devices these days.

I got my StemPod running like a champ with some new coils recently, but still the hopper outclasses it in terms of speed, size and ease. It's in a class of its own for sure. Thanks for the passion that has kept it alive.

 

[Hopper Labs]

Remind me/us again the recommended approach. ISO, Blu Tack, sandpaper or other? Please do keep up the occasional posts as they are appreciated and reassuring, and for me (and perhaps others) coaxing us back into the fold and positive side of things (instead of being negative, which I freely admit).

Indeed, new batteries soon would be great. Enjoying my Hopper anew (back from RMA) again - and it’s wonderdul though I’ve learned to use it on low temps natively now with the improved heater.

Some ISO and light scrubbing is fine. Be sure to let it dry. Another option is some 600 grit sandpaper. This will easily remove build-up without causing damage. The other recommendations above seem like they would work as well.

On Reddit a couple people have posted about using WD40 contact cleaner to soak the back ends which apparently made a big improvement for them. That seems to be the go in terms of cleaning the back-end internals.

Interesting suggestion. We don't have any info on this approach and don't know too much about WD40 contact cleaner. Concerns might be making sure it fully dries out inside before operating the device/effects on the PCB. Maybe it works great. I will add a note to do a test here when there is some time.

 

[Vaporific]

Concerns might be making sure it fully dries out inside before operating the device/effects on the PCB.

I would think that would be the case with any liquid or solvent applied. Just saying. Glad you’re contributing to the thread!

My returned pre-order Ti continues to work well. I’m now running it between 2.6-2.9 using it natively. I’m trying to lessen the heat in my throat since anything higher gets too hot for my liking without any filtration. One or two draws is usually all I need for a bit. Vapor is very good but not dense (which is ok); AVB could be darker but then again I’m running it fairly low. Overall it’s great to have my Hopper back and in daily rotation again!

I may even dole out some extra cash and order additional batts, on top of y existing accessory order, which are much needed.

 

[Hopper Labs]

I would think that would be the case with any liquid or solvent applied. Just saying. Glad you’re contributing to the thread!

For drying it out that is true with any liquid solvent. We can't recommend soaking the whole backend right now. Among other things, we don't know how long various solvents will take to dry safely in different environments.

ISO will not hurt the PCB, that part we can be sure of.

 

[vapviking]

ISO will not hurt the PCB, that part we can be sure of.

Is this leaning toward recommending a body-soak in iso alcohol? Or are there other components in the hopper body that might suffer from that? I've often been concerned about 'internal cleaning' and have not found compressed air to be always effective, especially for improving restricted draw.

I think this new dialog can only help to educate the user community and maybe even lead to fewer folks needing to send their hoppers in for repair. At a bare minimum it's helping heal some of the longer-term wounds.

 

[Vaporific]

We can't recommend soaking the whole backend right now. Among other things, we don't know how long various solvents will take to dry safely in different environments.

I wasn’t implying a complete soak & just surface cleaning. I wouldn’t soak completely anything or a part with electronics in it unless recommended. Thanks! I’ve only soaked the frontend completely, and typically brush it out and the chamber. I applied Blu Tack for the first time when my unit returned from RMA. Again, so far so good. Just need some new batteries (ahem). TGIF!