The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
Sure. i've been waiting to post until i had some concrete progress, but yeah, i've been neglecting the weekly status update.

i've been relentlessly testing the most recent cube, Unit #2. i can always diddle with the temperature control software, but it really is working exactly the way i want. There's a little overshoot at startup (about 20F) -- with SETPOINT at 385F, it will hit 410F with a fresh battery pack, in about 30 seconds. Then it drifts down to about 10F below SETPOINT and over the next 60 seconds drifts back up to SETPOINT. Then the green LED comes on. At this point, the bud is nicely toasted and the vapor will flow. The second and third hits are bigger and richer than the first, usually (depends on the bud and trichome density - the first hit can be just as nice).

i'm still thinking about what is going on here. Certainly, the interior is getting heat saturated, and there is a lot to heat up -- glass oven, glass vial, bud. And i think the waxy cover of the trichomes is getting melted. i'm almost sure (not a physicist here) there is a heat of vaporization associated with this melting, so heat will be absorbed by this process.

So, although it is taking 90 seconds to the first toke, i really doubt i can speed this up in this design geometry, and it doesn't appear necessary.

Now, after 6 to 12 hits, as the trichomes are drained and the vapor begins to thin out, the temperature drifts up (as reported by the digital thermometer). Toward the end of the 7.5 minute session, the display shows 390F, instead of the nominal 385F. All in all, a slightly increasing temperature toward the end of the session is kind of idea for maximum extraction.

However, all during the session, the green LED is slowly blinking on and off. This is the ideal operation. The green LED is ON, when the thermocouple reads a temperature at or above the SETPOINT temperature. So, as far as the PIC knows, the temperature is as stable as it can be, given the jitter in the readings (approximately 1C).

Keep in mind, the digital thermometer (DT) has an entirely different time constant from the type-K thermocouple used by the PIC to control the temperature -- the DT lags the actual temperature by 10s of seconds. So the DT is really showing a long-term moving average of the temperature - which is just as well, considering the jitter in the temperature reading the PIC is getting from the MAX6675.

So, i find the green LED to be a reliable indicator of when it is time to start toking. And it is pretty clear when the vapor is too thin to continue -- about 7 minutes for a 1/2 full vial.

And, although a slow toke evokes the densest vapor, the volume and speed of toke do not drop the temperature more than 0.5F, which then quickly recovers. Temperature control is a solved problem. Even so, i'll probably play with the PID coefficients a bit -- lots more to learn here.

So there is one last design problem -- the "battery sled". i played around with some 18650 batteries for a few weeks (usually while sipping Merlot). The smaller diameter offers some design opportunities, but the reduced capacity keeps this option on the back burner. Here is a drawing ... i made a prototype but i'm just not happy with the 18650 batteries. my initial impressions are correct -- wait for the next generation battery to get to a smaller form factor.

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All the 26650 batteries i use have a soldered Deans (female) plug and are coated in plastic using Dip-It. Safety over beauty. If you have a MFLB and ever have a battery get shorted out in your pocket, these batteries would blast a hole through your leg. The power of these cells has kept me freaked out for a while.

The problem has been there are NO battery holders available in the fucking world for dual 26650 batteries. i could get a MakerBot and fab my own holders, but then i've got a plastic component which pollutes the design. So making a small wood box, just the size of the batteries has been my main problem - how to hold the sides together without adding too much thickness. But i've finally figured out an approach using 1/8" wood (cherry, oak, mohagony, etc.) with cutouts and tabs that should be very sweet. i made a foam prototype to have something to handle and keep next to the keyboard on my desk as extra motivation. Now i just need to cut, groove and drill the wood to try it out. And the tabs are keyed so the pieces can't be assembled incorrectly, shorting out the batteries.

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So, no more soldering on the batteries, elimination of one Deans plug per battery (at least 4 batteries per Bud Toaster kit), small size, nice looking wood, and with a place to rest the vial and toke tube. The 36" power cable will wrap around the outside of the sled -- neat and tidy.

When the battery sled is finalized, i can finally get the leather case figured out. my plan is to make a few cases by hand to work out size and layout and then outsource case production to china. It will be a nice leather zipper clam-shell case, approximately 6" long, by 3" wide, by 2" tall. Holding the Bud Toaster, the battery sled, with 2 cells, glass stem, several vials, and an Altoids container of herb.

i'm sure there will be a bunch of production issues to resolve -- mainly through doing and adjusting, and none of them will be show stoppers -- merely engineering problems and i do engineering.

My regular job has been more demanding going into 2nd Quarter, but i'm reserving Rapture Day for the Bud Toaster -- and some brownies.
 
Hippie Dickie,

VWFringe

Naruto Fan
i don't mean to get too personal, but i bet your brownies don't work for isht. haha

i hope that was funny but i do want to ask you about your ABV - any comment would be appreciated,

also, could you comment on the suitability of this tech for an oil /dome/nail application...i see them dumping all kinds of energy into the nail using a torch, and wonder if that glass nail were temp controlled what it would be like

100_1915.jpg


or of heating a soldering iron like the ones they use as electric matches on bongs - i imagine an herb iron that doesn't go above combusting temps, but don't know how that would act in use, prolly have to stir a lot real quick, hehe
 
VWFringe,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
LOL -- the brownies worked as intended.

i throw the ABV away ... there is nothing left amidst the dark brown remainder -- i've looked, the trichomes are gone. Yeah, perhaps some THC gets melted and sticks to the ABV, but the one time i tried an extraction it was black and too disgusting to use. Efficiency of vaporizing has been consistent for the last several years.

i fully intend the BT to be used for hash and bubble and oil. there is a special direct draw tube that replaces the vial -- the hole is in the side of the tube instead of the bottom so the oil won't leak out. Althought cleaning the oven tube is a snap with some iso and q-tips. The BT is designed to get hot enough to vaporize the oil -- the heater components can handle up to 700F. The wood cube is always cool to the touch, except the top around the oven tube -- and i've got a solution for that.
 
Hippie Dickie,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
here's a look at the battery sled prototype work i got done yesterday ...
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this is still very preliminary -- needs to be sanded and edges beveled and corners rounded. i need to add the copper connectors that touch the ends of the batteries. The overhang of the top and bottom slabs gives space to wrap the cord -- that's the theory, anyway -- to be adjusted as necessary as testing proceeds.

this is already version 2, since version 1 had a slot in the top that was too long, and a thin wood strip broke off the edge of the top with what i consider normal handling. But this configuraton is very sturdy for being only 1/8" thick wood.
 
Hippie Dickie,

los

Well-Known Member
i really like this unit, probably will never own one(price) but i love the concept and wish you the best! cant wait to see the bt as a finished product.....bet you cant either :D
 
los,

Engy

engy
Hey what kind of current are you getting through the MOSFET? How hot is it getting? Have you considered using a large ground pour on both sides of the PCB with plenty of thermal vias?
 
Engy,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
@los - you betcha!

@Engy - maximum theoretical current draw is 12 amps, but is limited by the 14ga multi-strand power cable. Once i get the battery sled (re)made (maybe today?) and wired, i will have a direct connect plug from battery to Bud Toaster - the Deans are able to handle >40 amps. i'm anticipating somewhat faster time to reach vape temp -- less than 30 seconds.

The MOSFET is cool to the touch -- once i selected the correct MOSFET based on Vgs (with info from a very helpful reader) -- couple of tradeoffs here (as always) -- how low can the battery power go?, what is the dropout voltage of the voltage regulator? -- i settled on 4.5v as the Vreg output. So the batteries can discharge fully without being damaged. The MOSFET has very, very low Source-to-Drain resistance at this gate voltage.

i do have as much copper on the pcb as the physical size allows (1/4" x 1/4" at the heater coil mounts, 3/16" wide power/ground traces) -- and based on a trace width calculator, the pcb can handle the 12 amps without heating more than a couple of degrees. Also using 2.5oz copper on the pcb.
 
Hippie Dickie,
Hey Hippie Dickie,
Congrats on the progress of your creation :)
I hope this isn't too much to ask for, but could you identify your sources for the nichrome wire and/or pyrex test tubes. I've been looking everywhere for the 16 ga nichrome 80, but I've been only able to find 22 and up or 16 ga but nichrome 60. I also can't seem to find any flat bottomed test tubes either.

Sorry if I'm asking for too much information, but I really love the simplicity of your design and want to mimic it as best I can.
 
FungusAmungus1012,
Hey, me again.

I was just browsing glass labware sites looking for glass to use in my project, when I came upon this:

straighvacuumadaptor.jpg


It's called a straight vacuum adapter and it's made out of borosilicate glass just like test tubes so should withstand heat just as well.Now I don't know if its just me, but that thing screams all-glass heating element:

svautilization.jpg


My question to you Hippie Dickie is whether or not you think the nichrome wrapped around the thin tube will just melt the glass rather than heat the air which will be pulled up. I have had no experience yet with nichrome wire and test tubes, but I would think you would be able to judge this situation better than I would from all your experience. I'm just worried that the thin tube without anything inside of it but air will not be able to stand the heat. Any guesses?
 
FungusAmungus1012,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
@FA1012 - thank-you for your comments.

Here's a source for Nichrome A:
http://www.smallparts.com/dp/B000FMW8X0/ref=sp_dp_g2c_asin

the oven tube i'm using is 1.2mm wall thickness. i don't know what would happen with thinner wall tubing heat-wise, but stuffing 16ga nichrome inside that glass piece might be very difficult -- it is very stiff wire. And attaching a copper wire to the ends of the nichrome would require a spot welder (probably, but haven't tried it yet). Using small gauge nichrome would not be a problem -- it would require changing some constants in the control software -- just a little trial and error.

here is a source for N-51 shell vials:
http://kimblechase.thomasnet-navigator.com/category/shell-vials

i usually buy my glassware by the pack (72 pieces or so).

Also, my glassware is very cheap (< $0.50) -- i'm guessing that piece is multi-dollars a copy (?)
 
Hippie Dickie,
Thanks for the info Hippie!
The entire thing is actually around 9 inches long and I'm not sure how thick the small tube inside is. I'll check it out later after I get some experience with just test tubes and maybe send in a request for more info on the piece, dimension wise. Its also $28 not shipped, and would be a costly mistake if it melts / breaks.

Thanks again for your help. I'm probably going to nag you a few more times in the future as I progress through the build, but I'll try to scavenge as much as I can from the info you already posted.

Good luck with your progress!

EDIT: Thanks for the shell vial source but how did you manage to order in small quantities? It seems they only sell them in cases of 576. Did you have to call in or email them about a lower quantity?
 
FungusAmungus1012,

Engy

engy
Cool, thanks for the reply. I like your simple/efficient design a lot. Open source engineering for the win!

Do you think you'll ever need to opto-isolate the MOSFET switching circuitry from the digital control ICs? Those must be pretty large switching currents. If you haven't observed any corruption of the digital logic levels, I guess it wouldn't be a problem. I'd be most concerned about getting spurious readings from the thermocouple IC.
 
Engy,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
@FA1012 - sorry, i didn't see your edit ... no, i just ordered online. i think it was actually 144 vials in a pack for around $50 for the 12mm dia. x 35mm long. Two other sites are LabDepotInc.com and Fisher Scientific (fishersci.com)

@Engy - well, whether i like it or not, the new reality is that ALL engineering is open source engineering once a technology makes it to asia.

re: opto-isolation -- i've only assumed it isn't necessary, and the Bud Toaster performs as expected. but you've got me thinking i should put an oscilloscope on the circuit to see what's really going on. someday.
 
Hippie Dickie,

Engy

engy
Hippie Dickie said:
@Engy - well, whether i like it or not, the new reality is that ALL engineering is open source engineering once a technology makes it to asia.
Haha, well open source engineering without me having to reverse engineer it ;)
 
Engy,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
true, that. i hope you have as much fun building your vape as i have had. i have learned so much on this project -- all quite unexpected. it's been leading me on -- and now i'm interested to see where the path goes. i just know that having a computer controlled heater that can get this hot, this fast and this reliably is a major tool in the toolbox. i feel like a cave man (digital cave, eh?) that just discovered fire.

i decided i needed to bifarcate the functions on my desktop PC and so i just added a new Win7 PC to handle all my development projects. It's been 6 years since my last workstation upgrade, so this has been a fun weekend learning a ton of new stuff. The existing workstation can now just handle the business end of my reality -- i may replace it too (been getting just a little squirrelly) but it does the job just fine.
 
Hippie Dickie,

Engy

engy
I'm quite excited about putting my knowledge of embedded electronics to good use :). I'm a C, AVR guy (paying for compilers sucks) and tend to stay away from assembly unless absolutely necessary, so I commend your ability to implement PID control in PIC assembly with that damn W register!
 
Engy,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
LOL! i appreciate your interest.

Okay, so here's the latest prototype of the "battery box" (name change from "sled") sitting with the Bud Toaster. i found a braided mesh that wraps the two wires of the power cable -- much neater appearance than using bits of shrink tubing to bind the two wire leads together. i haven't wired this cable yet -- i did wire the previous prototype and used it for several days -- i like the form and function quite a bit.

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The overhang of the top and bottom pieces allows the cable to be wrapped around the battery box to manage the cable:

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So, the design concept is nice wood (oak in this prototype) with a leather trim accent. The leather could be offered in several colors -- black, white, blue, and for sure, pink.

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And, to change the batteries, just unwrap the leather trim -- will most likely have snaps on the end to hold it together and in place:

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Here's the side view showing the batteries:

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The design is almost done -- i still haven't figured out how to have the top and bottom slabs hold everything together. So i'm suffering from design frustration right now.
 
Hippie Dickie,

VWFringe

Naruto Fan
THANK YOU.... (DROOL)

they would fit quite nicely under the cube, tho i know you're intent on the perfect cube (and not the perfect bed post),

if the mortis and tenon design were tighter i'd say aliphatic wood glue would hold it for years, but...

another idea: e-cig mod box builders use tiny button rare earth magnets for wooden box closures, like the Reo Woodvil's and even his aluminum enclosure uses magnets, something to look at possibly

EDIT: added link to box video that would hold 2 * 18650's, and their boxes are for sale.

Also, here's a possible source for boxes you could add magnets to: Incense Box
 
VWFringe,

Alan

Master JedHI
Manufacturer
Hippie - You might try slotting the wood so it slides together like a puzzle. Everything is solid when it is all slid together. Just a thought. Good luck with the box.
 
Alan,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
@VFWFringe -- these 26650 batteries are HEAVY! 70 grams (2 1/3 oz each) plus the 3 oz of the cube -- too heavy for a handheld, me thinks. Besides, i really like cradling the cube while using it. And i have a one-hand technique for holding the cube and the tube so it is easy to let gf get a hit -- an all-in-one would be too clumbsy for me.

Also, as currently envisioned, the lid must come off so the batteries can be removed ... hmmmmm, a glued box is a good thought, perhaps access through the side would be sufficient (with a cutout in the bottom slab to help push out the batteries), if the copper end-contacts are bent so they don't grab the edge of the battery wrap. Good thought! Thanks. It would solve the problem of using metal clips that can get lost/damaged -- actually, it solves ALL the problems.

my slots/tabs are kind of sloppy, but with a CNC router it will be a very tight design.

@TV -- thanks. i've been thinking about having the pieces lock together, but the 1/8" thickness keeps stopping me -- but this approach is still churning in my mind.
 
Hippie Dickie,

chucku

Charles Urbane
Dovetail the vertical panels into the horizontal panels or use four vertical panels with a piano hinge and latch.
 
chucku,

VWFringe

Naruto Fan
sorry, thought they were 18650's - thought your fingers looked kind of small


you could wrap a tape handle onto each battery, like in the video i linked

EDIT: I LOVE that model-T coil box, looking inside it looks like it was potted with asphaltic compound, wow!
 
VWFringe,
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