astralrift
New Member
Thanks for the explanation Hippie, that really clears it up for me. For some reason I convinced myself that varying the voltage at the gate would allow either more or less current to flow (sort of like a digital potentiometer).
The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)
- Thread starter Hippie Dickie
- Start date
yeah, that's not how it works. in fact, there is a minimum gate voltage required to get the MOSFET to pass the current with minimum resistance. the MOSFET i use needs at least 4.5v or it gets hot. very inefficient and wastes battery power.
Seren
Away with the fairies
Just checked out the vid for the Cube for the first time - it looks awesome! Keep up the great work @Hippie Dickie! 
kingtut106
Well-Known Member
I searched for concentrates in this thread and something popped up about a special vial for concentrates, just wondering if there was any other enough you could spare on this
Funny you should ask ... a friend dropped by just the other day with the cutest little jar of BHO. Well now.
Since we were clustered in vape station 2, i just happened to have the special concentrate tube handy:
Just a 13mm diameter x 100mm long test tube with a hole about 1/2" up from the bottom.
except instead of some Everclear hash like in the picture, i dabbed some of the BHO through the hole and into the bottom of the tube.
i figured the temp should be a bit above the normal 400F, so i cranked it up to 480F - inserted the concentrate tube into the oven tube and the BHO immediately began to melt, run, and vaporize.
So, it appears this special concentrate tube works as intended, but now i've got a new design in mind just for concentrates like BHO. Maybe just use a single battery for smaller overall size.
i would need a steady supply of BHO to do any further development.
i was pleased to find out that The Herbal Cube (new name for the Bud Toaster) has no problem running at 480F -- the outside of the cube doesn't get any warmer than when running at 400F.
This is great! I can't believe there are other people out there who work with PIC's. I am currently using one to make a vape also! I have a few questions about the battery part of your design. I don't see a low voltage cut off circuit so how do you know when to stop using the batteries so they are not damaged. Also do you need to unplug to recharge? It looks like they are Lithium Iron Phosphate batteries right? I don't know much about their requirements vs LiPo so sorry if my questions are stupid.
The voltage regulator chip supplies 4.5vdc to the PIC. It has a low drop out of about 0.5 volts, so the PIC dies when the voltage output falls below 5vdc. of course the drain is not equal across the two cells (running in series) - the cell closest to ground loses more power than the plus end of the series - but both are well above the minimum discharge voltage of 1.8v - typically around 2.3 to 2.5 volts. battery protection by design. (i should trademark that phrase, or something).
yes, the batteries are removed from the power pack and individually recharged. so, no load balancing cable required. The complete package for The Herbal Cube will have two sets of batteries. One set of cells lasts 90 minutes and a cell can be recharged in about 15 minutes.
i be rocking A123Systems cells, LiFePO4 chemistry. Super safe, super high current delivery (70 amps continuous, 120 amps burst). Well, safe if you don't slam them into something metal at 60 miles per hour. They won't explode when they recharge. These are the only cells i will recommend and sell.
Jimmy
Member
@Hippie Dickie, Hey ive been reading your thread. Does that glass setup provide conduction, convection or both. also in one picture the inner vial looked red hot while the out glass did not look as hot. why is that. Lastly. if you only used one glass vial, with no outer glass, would it produce as good of vapor. thank you
1. i say 99% convection - the herb makes very little contact with the glass vial, relative to total mass of the herb in the vial.
2. Actually the walls of the oven tube (the vial goes into the oven tube) have a throbbing red glow to show that the heater is turned on. It is not glowing from heat, it is a red LED activated by the MOSFET that energizes the heater coil. The bottom of the oven tube is roughed up to capture the red LED output and channel it to the upper rim of the oven tube.
3. i don't understand about no outer glass - that is the heater for the vial.
Jimmy
Member
thank you. i like the red led vile. For some reason i thought you did the heater as another glass bowl wrapped with wire.What is the heater made out of.
btw im trying to make a diy vape and so far its going great!
Yes, the heater is a glass tube, 15mm diameter by 1 3/8" long, that is wrapped with 24" of 16awg nichrome 80 resistance wire.
You can see the oven tube and the wire coil in the picture in the first post of my thread about the Bud Toaster. The vial drops into the open end of this tube.
Post #10 in my thread shows a schematic of how the glass is positioned.
Actually, there are quite a few pictures of the oven tube and the nichrome coil in the thread. This has been a key part of the design from the very beginning. Along with the flat bottom glass vial to hold the herb.
All glass and only glass, i like to say.
Also, here is the YouTube video showing operation:
You can see the oven tube and the wire coil in the picture in the first post of my thread about the Bud Toaster. The vial drops into the open end of this tube.
Post #10 in my thread shows a schematic of how the glass is positioned.
Actually, there are quite a few pictures of the oven tube and the nichrome coil in the thread. This has been a key part of the design from the very beginning. Along with the flat bottom glass vial to hold the herb.
All glass and only glass, i like to say.
Also, here is the YouTube video showing operation:
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Hey Hippie!
Been a very long time since I've posted, but I've been following since your earliest "Blue LED" posts way back when (2005?). Regarding the photo of your vial for concentrates - it doesn't have to be so hard. I've been vaping "Everclear hash" using a test tube heated with a temperature controlled air gun. You really don't need the big hole in the side of the test tube. I've been using unaltered test tubes of various sizes. No modifications needed. I put the material to be vaped in the bottom, put a stopper on the top to prevent vapor from prematurely exiting, then heat till it bubbles and vapes. I set my air gun for 450 F. Lift out the test tube, pop the cap, and sip from the lip sort of like your old "vapor shot" concept. No hole is required in the bottom of the tube. Just leave a gap between your upper lip and the tube so air can enter. Sort of like playing a flute except you suck rather than blow. Turbulent mixing pulls the vapor from the bottom of the tube. All heating is through conduction, so although it works fine for concentrates, it is not so good for raw bud. I've gone to this method so I can avoid any glass work. Use them and clean them till they break, then start another. They are soooo cheap, as long as you don't invest a lot of labor in modifying them.
Happy Vaping!
Been a very long time since I've posted, but I've been following since your earliest "Blue LED" posts way back when (2005?). Regarding the photo of your vial for concentrates - it doesn't have to be so hard. I've been vaping "Everclear hash" using a test tube heated with a temperature controlled air gun. You really don't need the big hole in the side of the test tube. I've been using unaltered test tubes of various sizes. No modifications needed. I put the material to be vaped in the bottom, put a stopper on the top to prevent vapor from prematurely exiting, then heat till it bubbles and vapes. I set my air gun for 450 F. Lift out the test tube, pop the cap, and sip from the lip sort of like your old "vapor shot" concept. No hole is required in the bottom of the tube. Just leave a gap between your upper lip and the tube so air can enter. Sort of like playing a flute except you suck rather than blow. Turbulent mixing pulls the vapor from the bottom of the tube. All heating is through conduction, so although it works fine for concentrates, it is not so good for raw bud. I've gone to this method so I can avoid any glass work. Use them and clean them till they break, then start another. They are soooo cheap, as long as you don't invest a lot of labor in modifying them.
Happy Vaping!
at this point, i have found the glass work to be not that difficult ... i think i can get a CNC router to drill hundreds at a time.
Jimmy
Member
thank you for all the help. that looks amazing. i can believe how good the hits are. a few more questions. How thick is all your glass? How much space do you leave on all sides between the vial and the heater? How how is airflow? does the vial rattle in the heater.
1. The oven tube is 1.2mm thick, so inside diameter is 12.6mm, so .3mm gap between the vial and oven tube. The vial is 12mm outside diameter - glass wall is about 0.8mm thick.
i got the oven tubes from India and found there is a bit of variance with wall thickness, and the tubes appears to be cut by hand since it is too short for conventional equipment - more variation. One iteration of tubes had been flame polished and the open end was warped and the vials wouldn't fit in some of them ... yada yada yada
i started with 16mm tubes, which had a larger gap between the oven tube and vial, and don't really see any difference in performance or airflow with a smaller gap.
2. i don't think the airflow is restricted at all, but i have never used another vape and so can't compare.
3. The draw tube is held tightly against the top rim of the vial, which anchors the vial against the bottom of the oven tube, so the vial can't rattle in normal operation. It is possible to hear the MOSFET switching off and on if i put my ear against the side of the cube. Otherwise it is silent operation.
i got the oven tubes from India and found there is a bit of variance with wall thickness, and the tubes appears to be cut by hand since it is too short for conventional equipment - more variation. One iteration of tubes had been flame polished and the open end was warped and the vials wouldn't fit in some of them ... yada yada yada
i started with 16mm tubes, which had a larger gap between the oven tube and vial, and don't really see any difference in performance or airflow with a smaller gap.
2. i don't think the airflow is restricted at all, but i have never used another vape and so can't compare.
3. The draw tube is held tightly against the top rim of the vial, which anchors the vial against the bottom of the oven tube, so the vial can't rattle in normal operation. It is possible to hear the MOSFET switching off and on if i put my ear against the side of the cube. Otherwise it is silent operation.
just a quick note about unit reliability ... today is the 3rd anniversary for the most recent unit - Model 14 version 3, unit #2 (See post #954). And, in fact, the previous model is still rocking, too. Both units are in daily use ... they are an effective team. Still getting 12 sessions per battery pack charge ... this after 3 years of charging every 2nd or 3rd day.
re: progress moving forward: i'm up to version 30 for the case design, and, ever hopeful, i might get a chance to fab this iteration tomorrow. This could be it ... but i've said that 29 times before.
re: progress moving forward: i'm up to version 30 for the case design, and, ever hopeful, i might get a chance to fab this iteration tomorrow. This could be it ... but i've said that 29 times before.
Hey! it's Friday, time for a post ...
i just made an interesting (to me, at least) discovery today ... i have been trying to figure out why my upstairs BT seems (perceptions to be taken with a grain of herb) to work noticeably better than my office BT - using the same herb and both running the same PID algorithm.
Then i noticed the vial upstairs is the 7-hole version while the office vial has the newer 4-hole version.
See, one question that i have wondered about off and on, is: how many holes should there be in the bottom of the vial (that holds the herb)?
For the longest time, it had 7 holes, because i could drill a nice symmetrical pattern with the tools i have. Then, i got to thinking that maybe i could pull a partial vacuum if there were more holes in the draw tube than in the vial - which theoretically should release more vapor at a given extraction temperature.
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
i replaced the 4-holer
with a 7-holer
and now the vapor thickness is the same with both Bud Toasters.
i think this validates what @luchiano has mentioned that more air flow = denser vapor.
whew! one question answered, only one or two left ... (as if) ...
i just made an interesting (to me, at least) discovery today ... i have been trying to figure out why my upstairs BT seems (perceptions to be taken with a grain of herb) to work noticeably better than my office BT - using the same herb and both running the same PID algorithm.
Then i noticed the vial upstairs is the 7-hole version while the office vial has the newer 4-hole version.
See, one question that i have wondered about off and on, is: how many holes should there be in the bottom of the vial (that holds the herb)?
For the longest time, it had 7 holes, because i could drill a nice symmetrical pattern with the tools i have. Then, i got to thinking that maybe i could pull a partial vacuum if there were more holes in the draw tube than in the vial - which theoretically should release more vapor at a given extraction temperature.
WRONG! WRONG! WRONG!
i replaced the 4-holer
with a 7-holer
and now the vapor thickness is the same with both Bud Toasters.
i think this validates what @luchiano has mentioned that more air flow = denser vapor.
whew! one question answered, only one or two left ... (as if) ...
no - bare wire. it is very thick and holds its shape with a gap between loops. the vertical leg keeps the coil from being compressed.
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thisperson
Ruler of all things person
I think this would benefit greatly from some kind of screw on cap mouthpiece for portability.
But for some reason everyone seems to love glass pieces, so I don't know what you'll think of that.
What will this retail for?
But for some reason everyone seems to love glass pieces, so I don't know what you'll think of that.
What will this retail for?
thanks for your interest and your post ...
i will include plastic caps for the vials, so they can be preloaded ... pull off the cap and drop into the cube for use. Remember, there will be a case for all the bits and pieces - at least 3 vials, draw tube, cube, battery power pack, and herb container. This version will never be a pocket device. i have several ideas for how to do that for a future device.
yeah, i just don't get that, but i'm an old fuck now (66+) and i have no such fascination with bongs and the like. there is just no place where i vape that is suitable for a fragile, water-filled, glass tube. on the other hand, my cube case lives on my desktop next to my keyboard. convenient and fast. easy to pick up and take elsewhere.
i'm still dickin' around with design issues so i haven't nailed down the price yet ... but for sure it will not be cheap, i.e. less than $300. plenty of other vapes on that end of the market. although none have this feature set. i guess i'll see what that's worth in the market place, eh?
i will include plastic caps for the vials, so they can be preloaded ... pull off the cap and drop into the cube for use. Remember, there will be a case for all the bits and pieces - at least 3 vials, draw tube, cube, battery power pack, and herb container. This version will never be a pocket device. i have several ideas for how to do that for a future device.
yeah, i just don't get that, but i'm an old fuck now (66+) and i have no such fascination with bongs and the like. there is just no place where i vape that is suitable for a fragile, water-filled, glass tube. on the other hand, my cube case lives on my desktop next to my keyboard. convenient and fast. easy to pick up and take elsewhere.
i'm still dickin' around with design issues so i haven't nailed down the price yet ... but for sure it will not be cheap, i.e. less than $300. plenty of other vapes on that end of the market. although none have this feature set. i guess i'll see what that's worth in the market place, eh?
stickstones
Vapor concierge
We're seeing a whole to of new vapes coming out, some of them with great features I didn't see coming like instant heat on demand with no power buttons, etc. What features are unique to the budtoaster (other than being a badass home made vape that actually works!)?
Features:
- all glass - no, really, all glass - no metal anywhere in the vapor path.
- the herb is not upside-down when inserted into the oven - i.e. can't fall out of the vial from gravity.
- 30 seconds from power on to vape temperature (385°F).
- 12 sessions of 7.5 minutes per charge - a real, honest, 90 minutes of vaporizer use per charge.
- +/- 1°F temperature stability regardless of inhale speed.
- convection style extraction
- user controlled temperature setting in one degree increments - ambient to 500°F temperature range.
- leather case to hold everything needed to vape the herb.
- AC adapter as alternative to battery pack.
okay, to be fair, there are other convection style vapes.
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stickstones
Vapor concierge
that's impressive! the market wants it!