The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)

[Hippie Dickie]

have drilled a couple 0.75mm "carburetor" holes in side of the test tube to allow a little fresh air to cool the hot vapor downstream of the bud vial

that's a nice idea. i had only thought about a hole (3/8") in the side of the 12mm tube to use for concentrates. i insert the tube into the oven (without the vial) to heat the goo for 30 seconds or so, and then remove to take a toke. no holes in the bottom so the goo can't ooze out anywhere.

i think i'll try the carburetor idea next time i have the glass drilling rig set up. i do like the more compact size of the 12mm x 4" tube. The 16mm tube feels like a cigar -- i love to watch it fill with vapor -- like a vapor shooter. i want to get some bigger tubes -- 18mm, 20mm -- next time i go shopping for glassware -- to see what the extra volume feels like.

i also like your glass particle bed idea. i think about a particle bed from time to time but have never come up with a physical arrangement that i want to try. Your design certainly gets past the conceptual problems i have.

my limitations are from trying to work within the small cube physical constraint -- the hot glass path for heating the ambient air is only 1 3/8" long. i find it mandatory to have the bud vial sitting inside the oven where it can saturate to 350°F -- then the toke brings the bud temp up to the 380°F vape temp.

 

[B.]

Still coveting this bad boy, eagerly awaiting its eventual release

 

[brekk]

So recently been having issues with normal smoking and in the midst of researching different vapes I thought of the Bud Toaster from long ago in my overgrow.com days and lo and behold here you are working away!

Glad to see you haven't improved on my air flow idea yet. Lemme know when you start making these suckers and what my royalty will be!

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Glad to see you haven't improved on my air flow idea yet.

please refresh my memory about your idea ... if it's what i think it is, i've been thinking about you lately, and for fucking sure you should get a taste.

As should the guy who gave me a lesson on MOSFETs ... which solved a problem i didn't really realize i had ... that was certain to be a show stopper.

Also, welcome to FC.

 

[brekk]

I made the shitty MSpaints of the double layer heating chamber so the air flowed in from the top through the outer area, 180'd at the bottom and then up into the weed chamber.

Previously the design was air passing in from the bottom and it wasn't getting enough heating time.


The Bud Toaster is the closest I've come to being part of a patentable idea.

I wish I could find those mspaints on an archive of OG.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

hmmm ... i think i remember a different screen name, but yes, that modification made a tremendous difference in performance for this geometry.

However concerning patents, been there-done that and i really doubt the value: no real protection, just makes the lawyers rich, and doesn't stop infringement - not worth the effort to try to collect lost profits. And i really doubt the concepts are patentable -- vaporizing is a pretty old idea.

i'm taking an techno-art approach, based on the Apple model -- where it doesn't matter if there are copies, they just aren't the same as the real deal. And constant evolution of product design to enhance the brand.

i'm proceeding with a business plan where i make 1000 units of this model. Things may change going forward -- i'll see.

 

[brekk]

Oh i wasn't being serious about a patent, I still like to take pride in helping.

i wish i could remember my OG screenname, probably eqbrekk

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Well, like i say, i've been thinking about you recently. i certainly owe you a unit. i just need to finish the power pack design and get the first 20 units fabricated. the Server is on order so i got a few days before the parts get here. maybe i can steal a few hours to get some work done.

 

[nicus]

... i had only thought about a hole (3/8") in the side of the 12mm tube to use for concentrates. i insert the tube into the oven (without the vial) to heat the goo for 30 seconds or so, and then remove to take a toke. no holes in the bottom so the goo can't ooze out anywhere.

... The 16mm tube feels like a cigar -- i love to watch it fill with vapor -- like a vapor shooter. i want to get some bigger tubes -- 18mm, 20mm -- next time i go shopping for glassware -- to see what the extra volume feels like.

Ahhh, vapor shooters from concentrate! My experience using concentrate (BHO) in a test tube is that it is harder to clean than I would like, so I end up replacing them relatively often. Putting a loading hole in each test tube, or otherwise modifying them, is just too much for my lazy ass, so I use stock unmodified tubes.

Here's how. I load a dollop of BHO into the bottom of the test tube using a close fitting polyethylene rod with a step machined at the end to hold the dollop. The rod serves to keep the dollop centered as I slide it down the tube insuring that none touches the tube wall. I then put a stopper loosely in the tube's mouth and place it in my heater. I'm currently using a hot air gun blowing across the bottom of the tube. Not elegant, but fully temperature tunable. Someday I will have to build an early model BudToaster to replace the heat gun arrangement. Once the tube fills with vapor, I lift it to my lips, remove the stopper, and sip the vapor by placing my mouth only partially over the opening. This allows fresh air to enter the tube while I'm sipping and it flushes the vapor from the tube.

Unfortunately 12mm tubes are just too small for this approach since they hold so little vapor. I use 16mm tubes instead. I like your idea of using even larger tubes. Will have to give them a try.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

re: cleaning the 12mm tube ... i just let it sit in the oven for 30 seconds at a time and a paper towel renders it spotless with just a swirl or two. i do the same to clean the draw tube ... i don't find vaping the collected resin to be worthwhile. Keeping the glassware clean is very easy. The herb vials just stay clean, except for a 1/4" wide band of ? (condensed vapor, bud bits, ?) that collects inside just below the open end -- usually knocks off when i stir the herb in the vial.

i'd like to be able to pull a partial vacuum on a bigger draw tube, say the 20mm, and have it self-fill with vapor ... now THAT would be a shooter.

 

[vap999]

i'd like to be able to pull a partial vacuum on a bigger draw tube, say the 20mm, and have it self-fill with vapor ... now THAT would be a shooter.

Along these lines, there should be small manual bellows, piston and other hand pumps available to suck and push air in and out of vaporizers; which would go well with even larger tubes (mixing/holding volume). For example, think of a tube (bong) with a piston in it that is withdrawn, sucking in air, and then can be pushed down to expel this (or a carburetor hole used).

Or how about being able to draw/push a Bud Toaster hit into say a 1 liter/quart glass container, with this involving working or controlling a real-time hand pump vs. holding the Bud Toaster's cube and tube? Or I'm sure you could automate this using an electrical air pump, perhaps even making draw speed and size adjustable. Might this be a way of implementing a desktop Bud Toaster? Perhaps, just drop your Toaster into a larger cube (with controls exposed), load your test tube, close the lid (which makes an air flow connection with the test tube) and you're set to go. I know you want all glass, and I would presume this could be done if everything was mounted/secured and interfaced well enough.

 

[yayvape]

Could have a bag inside a rigid container, bag starts off deflated, draw a vacuum inside the container which inflates the bag to fill the container. That way you don't have to worry about having a pump in the vapour/air path. I saw this idea somewhere, not sure if it was ever implemented.
I have all the parts to do it, a pump from a busted rework heatgun.. with variable speed. might give it a go
I'm not sure the bud toaster design would work all that well with constant airflow though, since the temperature sensor is so far removed from the centre of the vial, the temperature difference would get pretty big with constant drawing. Another monitor thermocouple in contact with the herb could prove/disprove this.
And it would definately be a bench rig.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

since the temperature sensor is so far removed from the centre of the vial

i did one instrumented experiment where i placed a thermometer probe in the center of the herb in the center of the vial. When the regular thermometer showed 385°F, the internal probe measured 350°F. During a hit the internal temperature immediately hit 385°F (several seconds) and then dropped back down after the hit.

 

[yayvape]

Really.. I was just measuring the temperature inside the vial, it was actually 20-30C higher than the set point, which does seem physically impossible.. I say this because I assumed the controller thermocouple is representative of an average temperature over the heating chamber, but in fact it is the temp of an area of glass with nichrome wires either side, I guess the average temperature (of the heating wire and glass) must be a fair bit higher, as the inner vial will reach a thermal equilibrium with its surroundings through IR emission and absorbtion.
Maybe I need to put the thermocouple in thermal contact with both glass and nichrome wire, I have been suspecting the temperature is a bit high.
I'll have to make a draw tube with a thermocouple sealed in to get some runtime temperatures.

Anyway, had a spare half-hour, this is what I was talking about in my last post:
https://lh3.googleusercontent.com/-N9HVK-FZw3Y/T3HCyTjtuwI/AAAAAAAAAvQ/8NKsT_4wyms/s782/IMAG0007.jpg
It could definately benefit from a quick release system, I'd like to have both inlet and outlet at the lid of the bottle, and simply push into a connector to fill, pull out to use

 

[Hippie Dickie]

interesting ... i have the thermocouple tight against the coil wire (middle of the coil) and the thermometer probe is against the glass oven tube.

 

[NotPotRelated]

This vape seems very interesting! sorry havent been reading first time viewer on this thread. Is there of video of this in action or release date? i might pick one of these up when it drops. also is there a price?

 

[Hippie Dickie]

release date not determined yet ... $500 complete kit.

 

[Engy]

Nice build, yayvape. Looks like fiddling with the I, D terms can get you better stability around the setpoint. Have you tried Ziegler-Nichols for tweaking the PID? Yours looks pretty decent already, but its something you might consider trying.

Should be pretty straightforward, compared to other PID systems since in this type of application you only need to find the ultimate gain around a narrow range of setpoints.

EDIT: Is the timescale on the x-axis for your plots correct? It says (s), but that seems unlikely.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

you only need to find the ultimate gain around a narrow range of setpoints.

i don't know about yayvape, but i plan on a setpoint range from 350° to at least 500°. i think the response of the heater coil is pretty consistent in this range. So PID should handle that okay, no?

 

[Engy]

i don't know about yayvape, but i plan on a setpoint range from 350° to at least 500°. i think the response of the heater coil is pretty consistent in this range. So PID should handle that okay, no?

The heater coils behave pretty linearly around there, which is just fine for PID.

 

[Rager951]

Ive been exploring this thread for a little while now and find myself getting more and more interested in this little vape. My only question to you is, with a price tag of $500, why should I purchase this over say a volcano? I have nothing but respect for the time and effort you have spent developing this fascinating little vape, I am just curious.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Thank you for your interest in the Bud Toaster ...


It is kind of hard to compare a direct draw vaporizer (Bud Toaster) with a bag filling vape. Of course, my vape should be compared to the digital volcano, since they both have digital temperature readout and precise temperature setting.

Just having a knob to control a potentiometer (Volcano Classic) doesn't allow the same precision or control, and my experience when i was using a knob to control my first PWM (at start of this thread) is that it developed a null spot at the favorite position. Could have just been my design, but it convinced me that buttons (rated for millions of clicks) would be better.

And i will never consider a vaporizer for my own use that doesn't have a temperature display. It is the only way to answer the question: has the vape failed or is it just shitty bud.

And, all glass air path -- no metal screen, etc. Really amazingly trivial to clean the glass. i never have to clean the bud vial, the oven tube never collects anything, and the draw tube can be cleaned with a dry paper towel.

Battery powered, so mobile. i wouldn't call it "portable", because that denotes using it while walking -- really can't do that with the Bud Toaster.

There are two leather cases. One is for the operational works (6" x 2.5" x 2.5" - about same footprint as a dollar bill) -- cube, vial, draw tube, power pack, Altoids can, tweezers, poker tool (toothpick). A second case will hold the extra pieces -- charger, extra batteries, extra glass pieces, toothpicks, wipes -- as well as the op pack. Easy to pack up and put away, easy to grab and go, or just keep the op pack on the desk (which is what i do).

Also, i checked this thread and realized i've been using this current unit for more than a year (first vapor at 4:20pm on Apr 20, 2011), with 3 to 5 sessions per day. i've opened it up several times and the inside shows no wear/damage at all. i find the polished, stainless steel heat shield is quite effective.

If/when this device goes retail it has a no questions asked, postage paid, 5 year warranty. Mainly, because that is how i would like to be treated as a customer. i consider my vape to be a medicine delivery device -- it can be relied on.

There is no other vaporizer, for any price, that has the feature set of the Bud Toaster. i love mine.

On a side note, i have finally come up with a design approach for the battery module. Just as soon as i finish my SBS 2011 Server install and get my business transfered over from SBS 2000, i will see if this new design really works. i had hoped to get my server up and running over 3 weeks ago, but i find catching up on 12 years of computer technology to be ... daunting.

 

[Rager951]

Thanks for the detailed response. It looks like the other top end vaporizers have their work cut out for them... I cant wait to see your design for the battery module.

 

[Stonesy]

Hey, me again. Looking at a battery tray design for my own batteries and I came up with this http://i.imgur.com/YBrjg.jpg
I don't know if you considered this option, but I think this is what I am going with and wanted to share it in case its something that works for you. The idea is to put a non-conductive layer of wood between the battery and the tray terminal that only blocks off the flow of electricity if the battery is put in the wrong way (otherwise it slips into the hole and allows the outer conductive ring of the battery to make contact with the terminal). This method only slightly modifies the battery in case there are people who want to use it for some other purpose.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

That's the right idea, but when i try executing a wood battery box, it ends up being too thick -- i find it hard to construct a box without using 1/4" thick wood pieces. i think a MakerBot that can fabricate a plastic box -- the plastic is like that used in Lego pieces -- would be the only way to get a minimal thickness shell. Or use sheet metal. i am tucking those ideas away for a later version or when i run out of other things to try.

i finally have emerged from network infrastructure redesign/rebuild hell, and came up with yet another idea for my battery module (Friday during a road trip back from the train station -- gf went to the city for a class). i have some 0.035" wire that will be wrapped around the battery end to end and stick out of the plastic end caps. The wire ends are 1/4" apart on the + end and 1/2" apart on the negative end -- so the battery will only insert one way. i've got a desk full of work to do before Monday, but i plan to take an hour today to try a first-order fab. i really, really, really think this is IT (but i've said that dozens of times before). This new idea uses minimal wood. i keep reminding myself i don't want to spend all my time as a wood worker when i start making these things.