caseball2051
Well-Known Member
fair enough, i figured they might be. never hurts to ask.
i liek what your doing so far!
i liek what your doing so far!
The Bud Toaster - (currently: Model 14, version 3)
- Thread starter Hippie Dickie
- Start date
thank-you.
i finally got some ideas for the battery "sled". This will be the base of the case that holds "the works":
when using the Bud Toaster, it will stand upright, and make contact with the thermometer to show the coil temperature:
yet another conceptual breakthrough happened after i cut some 6" x 4" cardboard pieces to make a mockup.
The actual "sled" will be made of 1/4" thick pieces of cherry (or maple, white oak, or mahogony). A cover will fit over the top and the entire case will be 6" x 4" x 2 1/4" tall.
i finally got some ideas for the battery "sled". This will be the base of the case that holds "the works":
when using the Bud Toaster, it will stand upright, and make contact with the thermometer to show the coil temperature:
yet another conceptual breakthrough happened after i cut some 6" x 4" cardboard pieces to make a mockup.
The actual "sled" will be made of 1/4" thick pieces of cherry (or maple, white oak, or mahogony). A cover will fit over the top and the entire case will be 6" x 4" x 2 1/4" tall.
Status update ...
i'm gradually adding code to measure current flow and handle the situation of a battery supply with more than 6.75 volts ... still working out the details of where the code goes and what it does. Part of this effort is to dynamically adjust the DCBIAS value to accommodate the state of charge/discharge of the battery pack.
Right now, there is about an extra 0.5F degree instability, but the startup temperature profile is significantly better -- e.g. settling down to SETPOINT after startup.
Also, i've posted the code and schematics in a public folder on my hotmail SkyDrive:
http://cid-02b3f5d74f36685c.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Lady Bud Toaster - Model 13 v5-4e
i'm gradually adding code to measure current flow and handle the situation of a battery supply with more than 6.75 volts ... still working out the details of where the code goes and what it does. Part of this effort is to dynamically adjust the DCBIAS value to accommodate the state of charge/discharge of the battery pack.
Right now, there is about an extra 0.5F degree instability, but the startup temperature profile is significantly better -- e.g. settling down to SETPOINT after startup.
Also, i've posted the code and schematics in a public folder on my hotmail SkyDrive:
http://cid-02b3f5d74f36685c.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Lady Bud Toaster - Model 13 v5-4e
sorry dudes ... i still haven't figured out the anonymity issues, so betas are going to people i know ... and all within reach so i can act instantly to feedback. So i can press forward for a late summer release of a retail product.
Status Update 04/11/2010 ...
i made this battery sled about 2 weeks ago:
Well, as is typical of a version 1 implementation, it kinda sucks ... it is in thrice daily use and i already hate it. It's the cord ... it's always the cord. The only good thing is having everything together as a unit. With a cover, the entire works would be 6" long by 4" wide by 2" tall.
i do like being able to set the Bud Toaster upright and reading the coil temperature. So, here it is with the Bud Toaster positioned on the thermometer contacts so the coil temperature is shown:
Although the coil temperature is 445F, the bud comes out nicely brown ... the temperature in the middle of the vial is about 40F lower than the thermometer reading. It is pretty easy to tell when the temperature is set too high ... the vapor is just noticably harsher and will make me cough once. Then i cut the temp down by 5F and the vapor is smoother, better.
The next version of the sled will have a spool between the two layers of cherry with a spring return ... pull the cord out for the session, then after the session it will rewind onto the spool and disapfuckingpear ... until next session.
But i'm also thinking about splitting the batteries off from the thermometer portion. Ugh ... at least two more versions to try. Whatever, it always takes until version 5 before one of my ideas gets more than halfway decent.
oh, yeah ... bump!
i made this battery sled about 2 weeks ago:
Well, as is typical of a version 1 implementation, it kinda sucks ... it is in thrice daily use and i already hate it. It's the cord ... it's always the cord. The only good thing is having everything together as a unit. With a cover, the entire works would be 6" long by 4" wide by 2" tall.
i do like being able to set the Bud Toaster upright and reading the coil temperature. So, here it is with the Bud Toaster positioned on the thermometer contacts so the coil temperature is shown:
Although the coil temperature is 445F, the bud comes out nicely brown ... the temperature in the middle of the vial is about 40F lower than the thermometer reading. It is pretty easy to tell when the temperature is set too high ... the vapor is just noticably harsher and will make me cough once. Then i cut the temp down by 5F and the vapor is smoother, better.
The next version of the sled will have a spool between the two layers of cherry with a spring return ... pull the cord out for the session, then after the session it will rewind onto the spool and disapfuckingpear ... until next session.
But i'm also thinking about splitting the batteries off from the thermometer portion. Ugh ... at least two more versions to try. Whatever, it always takes until version 5 before one of my ideas gets more than halfway decent.
oh, yeah ... bump!
Ash
vaporist
HD - Can you explain something to me? If I'm understanding correctly the thermometer is only reading the coil temp when the unit is on the sled. How then does the temperature dynamically adjust during hits? I thought that was part of the objective of all the code (that, and achieving super-fast warm up time).
edit: I love the idea for the retractable cord. Will that add significantly to your material and production costs?
edit: I love the idea for the retractable cord. Will that add significantly to your material and production costs?
Yes, the thermometer only shows the temperature when the Bud Toaster is on the sled.
The thermometer display is a second system for the user to see the temperature. There is another probe, a k-type thermocouple, that is connected to the MAX6675 chip that is connected (by a 2-pin serial link) to the PIC processor. This probe is used to control current to the coil.
So the thermometer is a totally independent (and impartial) observer. The two temperature probes are side by side, up against the glass of the oven tube (which is wrapped with the nichrome wire coil).
i haven't priced out the battery sled, yet, but whatever it turns out to be, it is included in the $500 package.
The thermometer display is a second system for the user to see the temperature. There is another probe, a k-type thermocouple, that is connected to the MAX6675 chip that is connected (by a 2-pin serial link) to the PIC processor. This probe is used to control current to the coil.
So the thermometer is a totally independent (and impartial) observer. The two temperature probes are side by side, up against the glass of the oven tube (which is wrapped with the nichrome wire coil).
i haven't priced out the battery sled, yet, but whatever it turns out to be, it is included in the $500 package.
The third beta unit is now in progress ...
My question is similar to Ash's -- sorry if it has been made clear previously. In order for the hand-held unit to dynamically adjust the temperature during a hit, it must have a power source. Is there a battery in that thing or something? If you're not dynamically adjusting temperature, then it seems like you need a large heavy heat exchanger like on the other log-style vapes.
Q: The batteries are external to the actual Bud Toaster itself ... if you look at post #506 the batteries are the two red cylinders in those photos.
These are A123Systems LiFePo4 (nanotechnology) Lithium Ion batteries. They can deliver 70 amps continuous, 120 amps peak for several tens of seconds. Each battery is 3.35 volts, connected in series the two batteries deliver 6.7 volts to the Bud Toaster. The heater coil is 1/2 ohm, so it is pulling 12 amps at full power. However, they are only running at about 20% power.
The Bud Toaster uses a temperature probe to measure the coil temperature and uses a pulse width modulator (implemented in the PIC processor), to control the current to the heater coil to keep the temperature (as measured by a k-type thermocouple connected to the MAX6675 chip -- leftmost chip in the photo in post #510) constant to within 1F of the set temperature.
Most definitely dynamically adjusting the temperature.
i tried for several years to get enough heat mass to prevent temp drop from a hit and never found the right configuration. Dynamic adjustment works infinitely better, imho.
These are A123Systems LiFePo4 (nanotechnology) Lithium Ion batteries. They can deliver 70 amps continuous, 120 amps peak for several tens of seconds. Each battery is 3.35 volts, connected in series the two batteries deliver 6.7 volts to the Bud Toaster. The heater coil is 1/2 ohm, so it is pulling 12 amps at full power. However, they are only running at about 20% power.
The Bud Toaster uses a temperature probe to measure the coil temperature and uses a pulse width modulator (implemented in the PIC processor), to control the current to the heater coil to keep the temperature (as measured by a k-type thermocouple connected to the MAX6675 chip -- leftmost chip in the photo in post #510) constant to within 1F of the set temperature.
Most definitely dynamically adjusting the temperature.
i tried for several years to get enough heat mass to prevent temp drop from a hit and never found the right configuration. Dynamic adjustment works infinitely better, imho.
Sorry, but you're going to have to really break this down for me -- I'm good with math and computers but a little dense sometimes.
It looks like the bud toaster is wireless (when removed from the sled) and yet has power (i.e. the LED light is on, and you say there is some dynamic temperature control). This seems to imply there is some sort of power store (e.g. battery) in the hand-held unit. Is this correct? Or maybe there's a wire connecting the toaster to the sled I just haven't noticed?
The bud toaster is a bit like Apple's Ipad for me -- I'm ready to buy it just to find out what exactly it is.
It looks like the bud toaster is wireless (when removed from the sled) and yet has power (i.e. the LED light is on, and you say there is some dynamic temperature control). This seems to imply there is some sort of power store (e.g. battery) in the hand-held unit. Is this correct? Or maybe there's a wire connecting the toaster to the sled I just haven't noticed?
The bud toaster is a bit like Apple's Ipad for me -- I'm ready to buy it just to find out what exactly it is.
Q - no, the Bud Toaster is not wireless, unfortunately, battery technology isn't there yet. Unlike the Magic Flight Launch Box, i am not content to only get a couple of hits from a battery charge.
Look at the top picture in post #497, where you can see the batteries plugged into the Bud Toaster,
and look at the 4th picture in #498, where you can see the (male) plug in the back of the Bud Toaster, where the battery cable plugs in.
If you want to see the program code for the PIC (in assembler) i have a public SkyDrive folder on my hotmail account that has the listing as PDFs.
http://cid-02b3f5d74f36685c.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Lady Bud Toaster - Model 13 v5-4e
and there are pictures inside the enclosure.
Look at the top picture in post #497, where you can see the batteries plugged into the Bud Toaster,
and look at the 4th picture in #498, where you can see the (male) plug in the back of the Bud Toaster, where the battery cable plugs in.
If you want to see the program code for the PIC (in assembler) i have a public SkyDrive folder on my hotmail account that has the listing as PDFs.
http://cid-02b3f5d74f36685c.skydrive.live.com/browse.aspx/.Public/Lady Bud Toaster - Model 13 v5-4e
and there are pictures inside the enclosure.
Sorry, my mistake - i'm not using a LB ... just my interpretation of all the talk about batteries - evidently, my mis-interpretation.
Thanks -- I see the wire very clearly now.
With the PIC code, is it your goal to keep the heat exchanger at a constant temperature, or to keep the air that is about to travel through the herb at a constant temperature? With a small surface area on the heat exchanger, those two are pretty different I would guess. It's probably much easier to do the former, but then it requires a little more skill from users to attain the latter -- basically they need to draw at about the right rate. Achieving the latter would require being able to change the temperature of the heat exchanger very fast -- something like a light bulb.
With the PIC code, is it your goal to keep the heat exchanger at a constant temperature, or to keep the air that is about to travel through the herb at a constant temperature? With a small surface area on the heat exchanger, those two are pretty different I would guess. It's probably much easier to do the former, but then it requires a little more skill from users to attain the latter -- basically they need to draw at about the right rate. Achieving the latter would require being able to change the temperature of the heat exchanger very fast -- something like a light bulb.
i keep the glass oven tube at a constant temperature ... the heater coil is wrapped around the glass oven tube, which is cooled by the air flow inside. The PID algorithm detects the start of the temperature drop with the hit, and increases the temperature of the coil to compensate (i think the derivative gain ("D" part of PID) is doing this). There is some delay -- about 1 sec -- and the temp rises during the hit. However, slower draw rate provides a denser vapor.
i still need to fiddle with the PID gains, but i stopped when i got to 1F stability -- to try to finish up the battery packaging.
i think (my theory) the trichomes melt during the draw, so a slower draw allows time for the trichome to melt and the contents to vaporize. There is a lot of air space between the bud and the glass, so the bud is cooler than the hot air that is drawn into it.
i still need to fiddle with the PID gains, but i stopped when i got to 1F stability -- to try to finish up the battery packaging.
i think (my theory) the trichomes melt during the draw, so a slower draw allows time for the trichome to melt and the contents to vaporize. There is a lot of air space between the bud and the glass, so the bud is cooler than the hot air that is drawn into it.
Beta Unit #3 ... baby steps ...
i milled the bottom disc this afternoon. i'm using maple instead of cherry this time to see if the lighter wood is a better match to the pink leather (yes, making another Lady Bud Toaster for beta #3):
the pcb fits into the slot in the disc:
this shows the buttons installed and in position:
and the view of the bottom:
i milled the bottom disc this afternoon. i'm using maple instead of cherry this time to see if the lighter wood is a better match to the pink leather (yes, making another Lady Bud Toaster for beta #3):
the pcb fits into the slot in the disc:
this shows the buttons installed and in position:
and the view of the bottom:
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
Hippie, that was was the same impression I got (about the LB batteries). At this time it's a steep curve, more battery power (mAh) vs. lower cost. Maybe someday...
Love seeing the pencil lines. Love the pink leather.
Distinct. A statement.
Love seeing the pencil lines. Love the pink leather.
Distinct. A statement.
pencil lines -- ah, yes, strictly hippie-hand made -- still waiting for that shipment of chinese slaves
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
If you haven't ordered yours yet, get the young ones, you can fit more of them in a box. 
Yep, the hand made part, by one guy, with pride in his work. It shows. Keep it up.
Yep, the hand made part, by one guy, with pride in his work. It shows. Keep it up.
Ash
vaporist
Having Tom on this thread got me thinking, "Is the Bud Toaster an evolved PD?"
It is about the same size, is made of wood and leather, and uses a short, solid detachable tube as a mini-whip. I love the PD's interface and this vape seems very similar in that respect. It also overcomes almost all the objections to the PD that I can think of (all-glass vapor path, adjustable temperature, larger bowl capacity, no warmup time).
It is about the same size, is made of wood and leather, and uses a short, solid detachable tube as a mini-whip. I love the PD's interface and this vape seems very similar in that respect. It also overcomes almost all the objections to the PD that I can think of (all-glass vapor path, adjustable temperature, larger bowl capacity, no warmup time).
Purple-Days
Well-Known Member
No, I think Hippie deserves full credit for a beautiful, and responsive system.
Totally unique. Bravo, HD.
Totally unique. Bravo, HD.
Ash - no disrespect to Tom, but the Bud Toaster has evolved over the last 10 years from some information posted by the creator of the Eterra. And there is a warm up time ... 90 seconds.
And, thank-you Tom for your kind comments ... you're putting in a very long day out there in OR, eh?
And, thank-you Tom for your kind comments ... you're putting in a very long day out there in OR, eh?