Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
(Good show at Wollman rink, pre Donald rehab. Never saw so many skinny black ties. Then unknown B52s were warmup band. Can't resist riffing off-topic, sorry @Stu )
One of my favorite radio stations growing up! I had to carefully read the year and call letters and your mention of Wollman Rink. That must’ve been a great show! Stop Making Sense is one of my favorite albums - incredible!

As for the IO, my belabored honeymoon continues. I’ve got to find some cooling options to suit my minimalistic needs. Running it too low doesn’t medicate me well - and that’s mostly the point for me. The IO is indeed an improvement over the OG Hopper - more power, better threads, cooler body (mostly). I still think it runs too hot for me to use natively in an effective manner. I know others differ and that’s fine. I’m trying not to scorch my throat which wasn’t much of an issue with my OG Hopper but vapor was always on the hotter side.
:peace:
 
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vapviking

Old and In the Way
I still think it runs too hot for me to use natively in an effective manner. I know others differ and that’s fine. I’m trying not to scorch my throat which wasn’t much of an issue with my OG Hopper but vapor was always on the hotter side.
Could it be that with io's more open draw you are delivering to mouth more hot air-per-second (my term)?
Maybe try a slower draw?
 

nonbeliever

Well-Known Member
There is no argument that they F'd up a lot of things but it's clear to me the effort is being made to survive and make good with everyone or I wouldn't be helping.

At this point in the game I feel if the io doesn't survive and bring them through this, they will go down. At that point everyone loses. At least this way they have a chance to make good.

I’m not sure a company that treats its customers as disrespectfully as these guys do deserves either our support or patience. Personally, I think their “Survival efforts” look a lot like something else.
 
nonbeliever,

Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
Could it be that with io's more open draw you are delivering to mouth more hot air-per-second (my term)?
Maybe try a slower draw?
I’ve used both the native frontend and a PFE (which I bought earlier this year and seldom used it with my OG Hopper before I bought the IO). I find I’m taking shorter draws not necessarily slower ones in general with the IO. I’m talking 5-7 secs. The PFE offers a more open draw and slightly cooler vapor. I’ve been using the PFE about as much with the IO as with the native frontend. I don’t think the IO has more open draw per se but certainly a more powerful heater. It very well could boil down to technique refinement, I just haven’t gotten it down yet and used to my OG Hopper signature. Funny, I’ve barely used my OG Hopper since getting the IO. :peace:
 

ChooChooCharlie

Well-Known Member
@Vaporific -- Yes, the hot downfall of convective vaping! I use several mouthpieces, and they have a bonus feature -- short silicone sheath allows unscrewing hot PFE easily.

Also helps throat if you open jaw more, and move tongue around to block inflow, as inside of mouth becomes an additional cooling chamber. ("that's right, use your tongue, and watch the teeth")

Hopper Labs have always done a masterful bit of cognitive jiu jitsu on this issue: Why bother engineering a cooling mouthpiece when we can extoll the virtues of a full bodied hit of vapor, undiluted by pesky extensions?

I posted this pic in Max's AC adapter thread. It shows mouthpiece extensions I use. The Plenty one is good high temp PEEK plastic. TiChillums are titanium. Don't care much for glass, myself

 

Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
Also helps throat if you open jaw more, and move tongue around to block inflow, as inside of mouth becomes an additional cooling chamber. ("that's right, use your tongue, and watch the teeth")
You know, in my 4+ years of owning my OG Hopper (less an entire one due to it being in RMA-ville) I never or seldom draw natively under my tongue or really used it to block or cool the vapor. I tried that last night with the IO with the temp a bit higher and it worked a bit better. I also took shorter draws at about the same pace which is not terribly fast or hard. Technique may indeed be a key here for me being able to use the IO natively at a higher temp for deeper medication/effect. I still think it runs too hot for its own good (using the Ferrari engine in a jalopy analogy, loosely). Just my :2c: , but I still enjoy the Hopper form factor and it’s great to have one in my small vape arsenal. Cheers.:peace:
 

Michel

Well-Known Member
Also helps throat if you open jaw more, and move tongue around to block inflow, as inside of mouth becomes an additional cooling chamber. ("that's right, use your tongue, and watch the teeth")

This was the key for me to use the hopper native. I think without this technique it isn’t usable.
Even with drip tip or MFLB glass straw the amount of hot dry air is too much to handle. I prepare before each draw:

I breath in deep 2-3 times before even starting to hit so I have enough oxygen for a very long draw.
I then accumulate some saliva on my tongue and start drawing slowly directly into the lungs with the lungs completely empty at the beginning and the jaw closed as much as possible. I move the tongue and the saliva around to keep the vapor as cool and moist as possible and let the air/ vapor pass on top of my tongue directly into the lungs. Since I draw very slowly, just enough to get some air through the heater, I can (pre-) heat the bowl as much as possible without feeling uncomfortable in the throat.

When I feel some heat building up and the vapor production starts after a 3-5 seconds I change from the direct lung draw to a mouth pull while opening the jaw slowly. Drawing speed doesn’t play a big role here imo. When the mouth is full and the jaw on its maximum position there is normally more than enough vapor in my lungs than the mighty could ever produce.

With this technique I can kill a bowl in 1-3 hits, depending on the temperature set and the material used. I can hit the hopper native on 5 without problems or even better than on 2.5-3 since more temperature from the heater means a shorter drawing time- and less heat for the throat- for the same amount of vapor (but less tasty of course).
Vapor dense like smoke, even my combusting friends are surprised of the amount of dense sweet vapor.

edit: speaking of the PFE with additional mouthpiece. Works of course with the standard tip, too. But at some point the tip becomes to hot for the lips.
 
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slozukimc

Well-Known Member
This was the key for me to use the hopper native. I think without this technique it isn’t usable.
Even with drip tip or MFLB glass straw the amount of hot dry air is too much to handle. I prepare before each draw:

I breath in deep 2-3 times before even starting to hit so I have enough oxygen for a very long draw.
I then accumulate some saliva on my tongue and start drawing slowly directly into the lungs with the lungs completely empty at the beginning and the jaw closed as much as possible. I move the tongue and the saliva around to keep the vapor as cool and moist as possible and let the air/ vapor pass on top of my tongue directly into the lungs. Since I draw very slowly, just enough to get some air through the heater, I can (pre-) heat the bowl as much as possible without feeling uncomfortable in the throat.

When I feel some heat building up and the vapor production starts after a 3-5 seconds I change from the direct lung draw to a mouth pull while opening the jaw slowly. Drawing speed doesn’t play a big role here imo. When the mouth is full and the jaw on its maximum position there is normally more than enough vapor in my lungs than the mighty could ever produce.

With this technique I can kill a bowl in 1-3 hits, depending on the temperature set and the material used. I can hit the hopper native on 5 without problems or even better than on 2.5-3 since more temperature from the heater means a shorter drawing time- and less heat for the throat- for the same amount of vapor (but less tasty of course).
Vapor dense like smoke, even my combusting friends are surprised of the amount of dense sweet vapor.

edit: speaking of the PFE with additional mouthpiece. Works of course with the standard tip, too. But at some point the tip becomes to hot for the lips.
They say “just the tip” but it works better when you put more in your mouth. You can control the direction of what comes out so it doesn’t hit you in the back of the throat. Less irritation that way. 🙄😉
 

Michel

Well-Known Member
it works better when you put more in your mouth.
I’m actually not a fan of having anything big or deep in my mouth. Tried the “deep whirling” when I first got the OG hoppers some years ago.

When I draw for longer than 10 or 15 seconds the whole front part, even with PFE, will become too hot to touch with the fingertips, not to talk about the lips.
 
Michel,

slozukimc

Well-Known Member
I’m actually not a fan of having anything big or deep in my mouth. Tried the “deep whirling” when I first got the OG hoppers some years ago.

When I draw for longer than 10 or 15 seconds the whole front part, even with PFE, will become too hot to touch with the fingertips, not to talk about the lips.
When you whirl and have it deep in your mouth for that long I can see how things could get too hot to handle.
 

Michel

Well-Known Member
Seriously, I feel strange putting the hopper deeper in my mouth than the very first part of the tip 😆
I’m not homophobic at all but I’m the kind of guy bitting in his ice cream to not get caught liking on it with to much enjoyment.

It’s definitely possible for a quick hit to “introduce” the hopper furthermore but for a satisfying amount of vapor I have to constantly turn and move it around my mouth. Keeping the tip wet does help but it looks awkward working so hard on the little pipe. “Tongue whirling” feels surely awkward, too, but at least nobody can see what I’m doing...
 

Mr. Me2

Well-Known Member
For me, as long as I don’t do back to back pulls, the gh doesn’t get too hot. But (again, for me) positioning on the mouthpiece (just past the taper) is important. And, if it makes a difference, I’m using one of the last og hoppers at around 2.5 temp.
 
Mr. Me2,
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nonbeliever

Well-Known Member
I grew up using a one hitter, so the heat with the OG has never bothered me. I stopped using the regular mouthpiece when the PFE came out as I wanted the easier, bigger draws. usually used at setting 3.8-5. I have never used it with glass or any other mouthpiece.
 
nonbeliever,
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slozukimc

Well-Known Member
Seriously, I feel strange putting the hopper deeper in my mouth than the very first part of the tip 😆
I’m not homophobic at all but I’m the kind of guy bitting in his ice cream to not get caught liking on it with to much enjoyment.

It’s definitely possible for a quick hit to “introduce” the hopper furthermore but for a satisfying amount of vapor I have to constantly turn and move it around my mouth. Keeping the tip wet does help but it looks awkward working so hard on the little pipe. “Tongue whirling” feels surely awkward, too, but at least nobody can see what I’m doing...
I used to be that guy. Now I have a who gives a fuck what others think attitude. And then there is the part about the chances of anyone actually seeing you use the Hopper and it being a quarrel with yourself.
 

Vaporific

All who wander are not lost...
I’m glad I incited a technique discussion. Haven’t seen one in a long while herein. Regardless, I still need to practice a bit and appreciate some of the styles above (in a clean way though I enjoyed the tongue-in-cheek - pun intended - humor above ;)).

Even though it’s the same form factor the IO definitely has a different signature than my OG Hopper. I can’t quite put my finger on it but I’ll figure it out. Or will suffice with a better external cooling option. :peace:
 

Michel

Well-Known Member
I understand where you all are coming from, the problem I have with native use isn’t the hot concentrated airstream. Finally it doesn’t play a role which technique I use to not scorch my throat -move the hopper or move the tongue- both techniques work quite well.

The hopper body itself heats up near the end of the draw. To hot to handle. The whole area from the heater to the mouthpiece is to hot to even touch quickly with the finger tips. Someone who use glass might confirm the excessive heat. I wonder how someone can draw natively extended time on a hopper without burnt lips. Perhaps I really should lick my ice cream rather than bite it, it might help for cooler lips. :)

The PFE is slightly better because of the wider airflow and the bigger thermal mass. It takes longer to heat up so it gives more time for a deep inhale.

The best compromise between massive hits and no burnt lips (like the guy how smokes down a cigar to zero) is, imho, an additional mouthpiece, the silicon or whatever insulates the lips from the nearly red glowing hopper...


Edit: a picture might say more than 1000 words.
2E3081FF-4407-4251-B38C-5C15614A1E3E.jpeg

A 6mm hole drilled in the FE and a Vapman mouthpiece fitted to my liking. Just long enough to keep my lips away from the hot metal but not as short as it would cool down the vapor or accumulate much condensation.
 
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zymos

Well-Known Member
Have they shipped any color ones yet? I’ve been getting the run around for months now, and am about ready to try and get my $ back.

I’m not a regular visitor here, but I figured if anyone knows the situation, it would be you all.
 

JCat

Well-Known Member
Accessory Maker
Have they shipped any color ones yet? I’ve been getting the run around for months now, and am about ready to try and get my $ back.

I’m not a regular visitor here, but I figured if anyone knows the situation, it would be you all.
Why not just switch for a plain Ti?
 

zymos

Well-Known Member
Good idea, I’ll ask them. It’s just every time I email they make it seem like it’s going to be just a little bit longer, so I think I’ll wait, then a couple months have gone by, etc, etc...

“Thanks for contacting us. We are close to finishing production of this. It will be done soon.”

Not sure whether that’s better or worse than telling me a specific time frame and then failing to meet it....
 

Michel

Well-Known Member
IO IO it’s off to RMA I go........this is getting fucking ridiculous. Hopper IO number 3 is starting to act up and not power on as well as going into low power mode with a fresh battery. Before anyone asks, yes, they are fresh batteries from the most recent batch.
I was just about to order a 3rd one, a SS this time... was yours a Ti or a SS @slozukimc and @nonbeliever ? I’m very curious if SS might work better natively since SS has a slower thermal conductivity. But I guess I’ll give my backup Ti some more test driving before throwing more money at hopper labs.
If they would have a warranty center in the EU or at least compensate shipping costs I would surely order without hesitation but at this point I’m just satisfied when they answer in an adequate time span.
 
Michel,

slozukimc

Well-Known Member
Min
I was just about to order a 3rd one, a SS this time... was yours a Ti or a SS @slozukimc and @nonbeliever ? I’m very curious if SS might work better natively since SS has a slower thermal conductivity. But I guess I’ll give my backup Ti some more test driving before throwing more money at hopper labs.
If they would have a warranty center in the EU or at least compensate shipping costs I would surely order without hesitation but at this point I’m just satisfied when they answer in an adequate time span.
Mine is Ti.
 
slozukimc,
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