Discontinued Hopper io

[JCat]

These guys are flying by the seat of their pants.
Conflicting information in marketing, projections, etc.
That little "*" on the product detail page is currently what we have to go by. It is accompanied by a photo of an old ghb2...

No one here has said anything about seeing an actual ghb3 yet. I'm not saying that it isn't true; we just don't really know.

@Vapor Eyes, thanks for searching, I see you came up with the same two quotes I had earlier brought up!

@JCat you are knowledgeable in this area. How long does it take to "test" a battery? Do you think they thoroughly test every one of them prior to shipping?

I'm by no means an expert in this area ... I would defer to mooch on e-cigarette forum; I don't know what factories do exactly for testing ... and I'm not sure HL should be "testing" each battery prior to shipping, as I believe to properly test a battery one would have to charge it and measure it's discharge rate and temperatures, and other characteristics, at expected loads, and doing this would degrade the battery from what it is in "factory new" condition; I'm also generally of the opinion to not charge/discharge in anyway a "factory new" battery, as my assumption is that it is likely in the best state for long-term storage in the state it comes from the factory.

I would guess HL would test a sampling of batteries from each batch for QC; it's not like the devices themselves that would all be tested prior to shipping.

I have a feeling that the Grasshopper cells (at least prior versions), are far from perfect ... I have a feeling they suffer from the following failings (based on my limited observations owning ~15 batteries, and from what I've read about others experiences):
- Poor shelf-life, especially in a fully charged state
- Under normal usage with a GH (can't speak to the IO), the cells are somewhat disposable; my experience is that after <6 months from initial charge, their performance degrades rather rapidly, and all of a sudden becomes mostly useless (flashing blue even at full charge)
- Even in new condition, their storage/performance is questionable. I had a lot of new batteries that didn't ever get charged, as my Hoppers just kept getting sent back to HL to not get fixed. I would charge one new battery after every time I would receive my Hoppers back to test it (which would show that it still didn't work right), and even purchased new batteries to test with, and still had flashing blue lights.
- My Ti Hopper didn't work right until the "fire" batteries ... I didn't have any batteries of my 13 that would work; with the "fire" batteries it works for 2-4 bowls without flashing, but one of those batteries has recently stopped yielding even a bowl on a full charge (flashing blue after about 10-15 seconds of inhaling). This happened all of a sudden--fine on one charge, the next day it didn't work quite right.

It is worth noting that the above is just my observations with 2 Hoppers (or about 15 if you count it as a different device after every time it has been to HL for servicing or I have been provided with a replacement body and/or back-end)

Edit: If the above assumptions are all true, I'm ok with all of it as long as I can actually buy new batteries (and will likely now start using the MaxVapor adapter once I receive it apart from when travelling ... and who knows when travelling will happen again); I'm ok with batteries being somewhat disposable ... if I have to buy 2 new batteries every 6 months, that would be 4 batteries per year and about $50 per year in consumables. It's not optimal, but it's perfectly acceptable and one has to expect that pushing small batteries this hard is going to result in somewhat sub-optimal length-of-service for them.

 

[vapviking]

Thanks, @JCat, I'm glad I asked! Lots of your experience with these cells have happened to me, though I did not always suspect the battery, rather the device.
Now I remember, you had such a merry-go-round ride early on, rarely getting one that worked for long.
Like you I've hung in and kept hopes up about hopping, though I've also had, idk, mabye 16 or 18 rma's.

The main way we've (wife and I, that is) kept hopping along is by owning 4 of them, plus other vapes on hand.

On the positive side, batteries notwithstanding, those who have received an io seem pretty happy with it.

 

[Reefer Fiend]

While I did not receive an email notification from HL regarding any change in my IO pre-order shipping status, I just checked my open order through the IO website. The status still shows that it's "in progress," however, there now is a tracking number for shipment. Right now, my new Ti IO is scheduled to be delivered on Monday! I will post again once I actually receive and test the unit for a few days.

On another note, I have a SS OG unit in for warranty repair. It has been six months since HL received it (it was delivered to HL the day after the fire). I inquired to see what HL would offer for it as a trade-in on a new SS IO and was quoted $80. That's a relatively small % of the original purchase price, considering the unit was used for just 6 months before the body crapped out. But, I believe I will accept the offer. Like many here, I view the OG as a well-tested prototype, and would much rather have the latest tech offered in the IO. I also will post on my progress with this trade-in transaction once resolved.

 

[JCat]

Thanks, @JCat, I'm glad I asked! Lots of your experience with these cells have happened to me, though I did not always suspect the battery, rather the device.
Now I remember, you had such a merry-go-round ride early on, rarely getting one that worked for long.
Like you I've hung in and kept hopes up about hopping, though I've also had, idk, mabye 16 or 18 rma's.

The main way we've (wife and I, that is) kept hopping along is by owning 4 of them, plus other vapes on hand.

On the positive side, batteries notwithstanding, those who have received an io seem pretty happy with it.

Yes ... I'm considering an IO ... but I feel a little jaded about the $100 credit thing (that I assume will cost me $25 to send them the defective one back ... so actually only $75 ...); and if I remember right, they were offering $75 credit for SS hopper, and $100 credit for Ti Hopper ... so actually I'll only get $50 for it. Kind of makes me angry ...

So ... for my SS Hopper ... I got maybe 1-2 months use out of it ... spent $200 buying it ... spent $100-$150 on RMA shipping (just accounting for this device not the Ti one), and now have to spend another $25 on shipping to get a $75-$100 credit so I can spend another $300???? And on top of that I primarily use rosin these days vs flower ... so ....

I'd love to get an IO ... but can't bring myself to it right now ... and if my Hoppers both worked well and were reliable, then why would I need an IO? I'm happy w/ 3-4 bowls out of a device w/ a 4-5 second heat up time ... and if the only reason I would upgrade is because the Hopper keeps breaking ... or that I can't get service on it ... then I would think HL should upgrade me to an IO for free or almost free ...

So ... I'm going to assume if HL survives 1 of 2 things should happen:

1. They will eventually be able to fulfill there lifetime warranty on the Grasshopper, and get it so they actually work and don't need service every month or 3
2. Or the Grasshopper will continue to fail every 1-3 months, and then I don't see why they wouldn't upgrade me for free; as the cost of honouring their warranty will exceed the cost of upgrading me. I'd be willing to meet them somewhere in the middle on that ... ie. maybe I would pay 50% for an IO ... and I shouldn't be expected to send my broken Hopper back (they should just blacklist the serial #), but to expect the customer to shoulder the full cost is unreasonable.

 

[vapviking]

My angle of approach is to try and trade up, using 2 ss og's currently in the warranty system.
If HL offers $80 each and will do that as a 2 for 1, I will spring for another $105 for a ss hopper io and stop the bleeding (I hope).

My decision is already firm, that if only a 1 to 1 trade is offered, I will wait as long as it takes for HL to fulfill their obligation on those 2 og's, and they will have brought it on themselves.

Shipping on rma's for me is much less painful, less than 5 bucks. And I have truckloads of patience if waiting is all I gotta do. I'm enjoying the heck out of a $55 Vleaf Go at the moment, will likely get another.

 

[Guest399]

While I did not receive an email notification from HL regarding any change in my IO pre-order shipping status, I just checked my open order through the IO website. The status still shows that it's "in progress," however, there now is a tracking number for shipment. Right now, my new Ti IO is scheduled to be delivered on Monday! I will post again once I actually receive and test the unit for a few days.

it is the same by me. no email. on the site of HL is written in progress. but now there is a tracking Number and it is on the way to germany

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I’ve been lucky with RMAs and batteries. I’ve had two RMAs on my Ti and four RMAs on my SS in four years, the total cost of shipping has been about $20.

It seems like roughly one out of four of my batteries has been flaky and inconsistent. I get at least a years worth of hard use out of a battery and haven’t ever used one to the point of not working. I do rotate four on average. I don’t store them in ideal conditions, they tend to be fully charged.

I have two batteries at the moment and they are both 20 months old. I did take a t-break in that time and also used cartridges primarily for a few months as well so they weren’t getting much use but they were stored fully charged.

I’m wondering if it’s a case of oxidized contacts on the battery or backend @JCat? Hopper Labs has acknowledged that it can cause a big decrease in performance and efficiency. Especially after being in storage I could see oxidation building up. I do the “back end twist” fix regularly and that seems to help a lot, that may be why I never get to that point with a battery, or I may not use them as much as other people. You shouldn’t have to do this, I think the self-cleaning prongs on the battery contact are one of the best new features of the Hopper io.

I did an $80 trade for my SS, the heater started running cool. I like having two hoppers but I don’t really need three. I figured I would wait a long time for it to be repaired and then I would be lucky to get $100 since it costs $45 to transfer the warranty and the Hopper io releasing will probably lower the demand for used Grasshoppers. Plus I’m lazy and didn’t want to go through the hassle of selling it.

 

[vapeverythingnyc]

I’ve got a 2017 Ti, one rma 9/19, 7 bux. Currently running better than ever. I always rotate 4 batteries, and like @Vapor Eyes I store them at 100%. They normally last about a year, which is fine since they are obviously a consumable.

I have to say that @MaxVapor710 ’s adapter has significantly increased my usage and I am grateful for him and his brain.

I preordered a SS io in November and see it is set for delivery 6/1. It’s a shame we couldn’t reserve serials as originally promised, however I still look forward to this upgrade. I already have a PU that should be powerful enough for the io. I guess we’ll see on Monday.

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

I’m hoping to pick up one of those @MaxVapor710 adaptors when the final threaded part comes in and everything is ready to go, especially since it will work with the Hopper io with a cheap upgrade to the power supply.

I also wanted to reserve a serial number for my io, I didn’t get the number I wanted but I’m happy with the one I received.

 

[JCat]

I’ve been lucky with RMAs and batteries. I’ve had two RMAs on my Ti and four RMAs on my SS in four years, the total cost of shipping has been about $20.

I’m wondering if it’s a case of oxidized contacts on the battery or backend @JCat?

The cost for shipping for me being in Canada is ~$25 each way.

It's not oxidized contacts on battery and/or back-end ... I'm fanatical about cleaning these, and I diligently clean all contacts and threads every time I replace a battery (and whenever I start to notice any flashing lights earlier then would be normal); this generally fixes the issue, but when a battery is going bad, it stops fixing it.

Like I said though, I am no battery expert; as well, my usage patterns (meaning my GH may go unused for extended enough periods) contributes to the batteries likely dying sooner.

Early on though, when I was still primarily consuming flower and not rosin, and the Hopper had become my daily driver, I had 2 spare new batteries when my insane repeated warranty returns started. It could be that those 2 new batteries, my existing 4-5, and the 4 new ones I bought after that to ensure it wasn't battery issues, were all bad.

If the batteries weren't all bad when my warranty returns all started, by the time I had a seemingly working device >12 months later, they all pretty much were finished from just sitting in a drawer unused; at that point I might get 1 bowl out of some of them before flashing lights on my seemingly working Ti Hopper. Then when the "fire" batteries finally came, I ordered a couple to confirm what I suspected (that my Ti was fine but my batteries and SS weren't), and that did confirm this. HL also sent me one battery which I appreciated after the fire battery recall, and my Ti is still working well. (to be honest I'm still using the fire batteries like some others)

In other words, if they get my SS working like my Ti (at some point), I don't need to exchange it for an IO; and if they can't fix it, then I should get more than $50-$75 for it (after shipping ...)

 

[Nomad #111]

So is it possible to order batteries for an OG Grasshopper at the moment? And they ship lol

 

[Vapor_Eyes]

@JCat: I figured you were keeping up with maintenance and that much vigilance shouldn’t be required anyways. I can’t even recommend a hopper to anyone in the U.S., let alone anyone who has to deal with international shipping where the cost for an RMA is much higher. I would love to get some friends hopping if reliability and battery availability were not such major issues. I’m happy with my experience but I know I’m the exception to the rule.

@Nomad #111: If you purchase batteries now I would expect them no sooner than late June.

 

[Nomad #111]

@JCat: I figured you were keeping up with maintenance and that much vigilance shouldn’t be required anyways. I can’t even recommend a hopper to anyone in the U.S., let alone anyone who has to deal with international shipping where the cost for an RMA is much higher. I would love to get some friends hopping if reliability and battery availability were not such major issues. I’m happy with my experience but I know I’m the exception to the rule.

@Nomad #111: If you purchase batteries now I would expect them no sooner than late June.

Thanks. Im so reluctant to make even the smallest order with these guys but fresh batteries would be great ☺

 

[Reefer Fiend]

I really would like to have an external charger to help maintain Grasshopper batteries. Unfortunately, the one promoted by HL seems to be a project that gets no attention and never comes to fruition. I ordered the HL charger three years ago with my initial OG order, but subsequently canceled the order when it became clear that it was not going to ship anytime soon.

Has anyone here identified and tested a functional external battery charging alternative that works well?

 

[Vaporific]

I really would like to have an external charger to help maintain Grasshopper batteries. Unfortunately, the one promoted by HL seems to be a project that gets no attention and never comes to fruition. I ordered the HL charger three years ago with my initial OG order, but subsequently canceled the order when it became clear that it was not going to ship anytime soon.

Has anyone here identified and tested a functional external battery charging alternative that works well?

The HBC is an albatross like the steel case (a friend has been waiting 5 years for the case but his OG Hopper has been presumably lost in the fire). I use Nitecore chargers, I2 and D4, for my vape batts and they always work well. I’ve heard Xtar is good too. I mostly charge externally but have used the original mag charger with my OG Hopper a bit more recently in the car.

There are two camps with respect to batteries: have several charged on hand for swapping them out and mainly use one with the charger without having to unscrew the backend. Lots of folks claim the frequent batt swaps exacerbate performance and necessitate frequent cleaning (various methods too). I use my external chargers at home and like having an extra or two on hand in rotation; others are fine with one and charging it regularly. Find your comfort zone. I don’t mind swapping batts when I’m using the Hopper a lot; I think it’s quick and easy.

 

[Reefer Fiend]

Thanks for the info Vaporific, that's helpful. I ordered a Nitecore D4. I still have 2 of the 4 batteries I initially received 3 years ago, one of which won't charge with the Hopper charger and probably is gone (never used or charged it in 3 years). Two others died and got recycled. My use of the OG primarily is as a single user, so I have simply charged the OG with the Hopper charger the morning after and that has worked well for me. But from what I recently learned here and elsewhere online about battery care, I need to start doing a better job maintaining batteries when I obtain new ones, hence the need for an external charger.

 

[Guest399]

I was asking myself if there is a series battery anywhere in the world that fits the same dimensions as the hopper and would work in the hopper .. but i cant find anything at now.

 

[vapeverythingnyc]

Received my preorder SS io today. No extra batteries.
Much worse than the missing extra batteries (which I expected to be the case so no big deal), there is a brown/bronze residue both inside the entire heater area as well as caked into the mouthpiece. Looks almost like copper paste. The mouthpiece won’t seat fully and I can’t for the life of me get this stuff off with 99% iso.

Oh yea, the charger sparked something fierce on first connection.

With all these negatives, I can’t say I’m thrilled. Emailing hopper labs now and will post some pics up later tonight or in the morning.

edit: my box didn’t have the sticker with the code to register the warranty. I had high hopes for this revision and release but must say I am awfully disappointed.

 

[vapviking]

Received my preorder SS io today. No extra batteries.
Much worse than the missing extra batteries (which I expected to be the case so no big deal), there is a brown/bronze residue both inside the entire heater area as well as caked into the mouthpiece. Looks almost like copper paste. The mouthpiece won’t seat fully and I can’t for the life of me get this stuff off with 99% iso.

Oh yea, the charger sparked something fierce on first connection.

With all these negatives, I can’t say I’m thrilled. Emailing hopper labs now and will post some pics up later tonight or in the morning.

Not an auspicious beginning! Yucky!
Is the battery a ghb3? glossy label or matte? Sorry to be the one to come with ??? during a bummer moment.

 

[vapeverythingnyc]

Not an auspicious beginning! Yucky!
Is the battery a ghb3? glossy label or matte? Sorry to be the one to come with ??? during a bummer moment.

All good, my expectations were low being this is hopper labs. Plus I have 2 perfect OGs, one Ti one SS.

The battery I received with the io is a matte ghb2, identical to the pity battery I received to replace the “fire” batteries which were glossy ghb2.

 

[Macicman]

They will only send Magicman a properly tested DopeGun(TM) and battery.

 

[vapemon]

Hopper IO to arrive this week or early next week. Will keep you updated.

 

[Vaporific]

They will only send Magicman a properly tested DopeGun(TM) and battery.

Don’t bet on it. That’s why I’m waiting - and lurking. I hope yours is fantastic, with or without a new battery (still waiting for my ‘fire’ replacement batteries like many for my pre order Ti).

 

[sammac]

I got my hopper yesterday. I can confirm the batteries are GHB2. My unit had a lot of gunk inside as well so I definitely recommend a good cleaning before use. I have had no issues and I am definitely in honeymoon phase right now.

 

[vapviking]

A few months ago I received an og (body) back from long warranty and it had gray gunk in both battery and chamber compartments; I swabbed it with iso until no more gray on q-tips but the taste and smell and some smoke (I never filled it) were still awful, so they sent a replacement. That one had gray gunk inside but after a lot of cleaning and bad smelling/tasting burn-offs it finally started tasting okay, though I didn't feel great about it and was not using it much. A month later the entire heater assembly came unscrewed and a shard of metal fell out. My warranty had been closed so I had to open a new one. HL has not responded, now it's been 2 more months. This og has been out of working order since rma'd in Nov. 2018.

It's really a let-down to hear about bad crap in a brand new device. I can not think of any valid excuse for the crap these two folks (@vapeverythingnyc and @sammac) have found in their brand new hopper io's. These are potential health issues, not just fledgling start-up mis-steps.