Farid
Well-Known Member
Considering how long it took to explain density in this thread, I don't think they're alone in that respect.
Holy Piatella
- Thread starter BabyFacedFinster
- Start date
Considering how long it took to explain density in this thread, I don't think they're alone in that respect.
Freeze drying is a well accepted pharmaceutical preservation method with plenty of published literature on the process
You literally cannot make "live" hash/rosin without one.
And we have glass jars now so temple balls aren't necessary, albeit a longstanding tradition implemented long before other storage vessels were conceived.
Hippie
Well-Known Member
The hashy flavour is Hashinene
From ..
"It appeared that most of the major terpenes present in fresh cannabis herb undergo various transformations during hashish manufacture"
But they also say that the beta-myrcene to hashinene conversion required UV, so I dunno how that happens after its been pressed into a block and stored in the dark for a few months lol
From ..
"It appeared that most of the major terpenes present in fresh cannabis herb undergo various transformations during hashish manufacture"
But they also say that the beta-myrcene to hashinene conversion required UV, so I dunno how that happens after its been pressed into a block and stored in the dark for a few months lol
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
I tried to find how Cellopane, or vacuum drying, or freezer drying, or temple ball making helps the hash molecules, not harm them. or degrade them. still didn't find ones.
density is mass/volume. if 50gr dry herb were 400~gr of wet herb, it doesn't mean that the volume was bigger x8 ?
it's not about density.
the mass was x8 , but it doesn't say the volume was x8
@Hippie Hashinene gives a bit spicy/smoked taste, but it's kind of degradation/oxidation of the hash... but yeah i agree it's one of reason people like hash, ok, i don't say it's good or makes the material better, it's some diversity, ALSO - the taste is different because some molecules of the terpenes are falling off the nets in the making of bubble hash
Absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. This really sounds like you are trying to prove a preconceived conclusion.
Bologna
(zombie) Woof.
Seems like anything and everything you don't have first-hand experience with is just "marketing", @GoldenBud.... what up with dat?
I mean, didn't you say earlier that no one makes bubble hash with live material?
I mean, didn't you say earlier that no one makes bubble hash with live material?
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
so I ask you again .. if dry hash is just dry herb but with x2 THC/Terpenes .. why it needs some processing ? if i come to your house and start oxidizing your herb, you won't like it, right? you will get mad at me.. so why in hash it's accepted to do these procedures?
bubble hash dried = dry herb , higher concentrations of THCA/Terpenes
why it needs procedures?
leave it as it may....
@Bologna
because for me, hash is just a stronger dry herb. I don't understand why it needs Cellophane/Vacuum/Temple balls/idk
staircase slight of hand
Well-Known Member
Have you considered that your research skills aren’t what you think they are? If not, you’re not doing science, you’re just searching for things that agree with your assumptions. I’m not saying that’s the case, I’m just saying that this is an important step toward true understanding and you seem to be skipping it entirely.
Consider, once again, that the problem might be your own [lack of] understanding.
I mean, I buy hash so I don't know that it would bother me.
I also don't really get hung up on THC percentage alone. After all, I dislike distillate and that has much THC as you want. I am almost never looking for the strongest anything.I think you are ignoring a lot to make your point of course. Curing also oxidizes your flower, but I suspect you are cool with that.
Monk Debate
The monks do be debatin’
Do you not know the history of your own field? Chemistry developed from alchemy, which was practiced for millennia in the Chinese, Indian, and Arabic worlds, and first developed in the west in a systemized manner around 1,700 years ago. The idea that our ancestors didn’t understand chemistry is paternalistic bullshit.
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
it's not oxidizing the flower, curing takes place in closed jars, there is very limited amount of air inside of the jar..
you think back then they knew that oxidizing the material is not a good thing but just to change the taste a bit?
Bologna
(zombie) Woof.
So you can have a different product, such as Piatella.
So you can have a different product, such as Piatella.
So you can have a different product, such as Piatella.
So you can have a different product, such as Piatella.
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
but Piatella just looks different than top shelf 6 star hash. why it matter if it looks different? you want to vape it, not marrying into it.
the processes won't get the material any better
TigoleBitties
Big and Bouncy
I've read through a few pages of this now.
As has been mentioned, regardless of your degree in chemistry you can probably never fully understand all the chemical processes that lead to the final hash product. Sure we can understand some basic ones that could hurt or harm but we'll never be able to account for all the variables at play here.
At the end of the day, the consumer either likes the product or not. It's a subjective opinion. Taste, smell, feeling high. If the consumer perceives that he likes it and finds out the hash was freeze dried (vacuum sealed, cellophane, insert any other "marketing" process here), he may be more apt to find out whether other freeze dried hashes taste good to him. If they do, *maybe* the freeze drying is the dominant variable in play, maybe not.
People's tastes are supremely subjective. Wine, coffee, weed, hash, sound systems. They all involve physical processes we'll likely never fully and completely understand above some really rough, macro-level scientific processes. But we "know" what we like when we experience it - and it isn't always the best marketed products that shine.
As has been mentioned, regardless of your degree in chemistry you can probably never fully understand all the chemical processes that lead to the final hash product. Sure we can understand some basic ones that could hurt or harm but we'll never be able to account for all the variables at play here.
At the end of the day, the consumer either likes the product or not. It's a subjective opinion. Taste, smell, feeling high. If the consumer perceives that he likes it and finds out the hash was freeze dried (vacuum sealed, cellophane, insert any other "marketing" process here), he may be more apt to find out whether other freeze dried hashes taste good to him. If they do, *maybe* the freeze drying is the dominant variable in play, maybe not.
People's tastes are supremely subjective. Wine, coffee, weed, hash, sound systems. They all involve physical processes we'll likely never fully and completely understand above some really rough, macro-level scientific processes. But we "know" what we like when we experience it - and it isn't always the best marketed products that shine.
staircase slight of hand
Well-Known Member
The processes will get the material to a state that some consumers prefer. If that’s not “better”, you’re going to need to define “better”. For you to just declare yourself the arbiter of “quality hash” (something you’ve acknowledged you have no personal knowledge of) is just kind of comical.
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
I understand exactly what is going on through the making of bubble hash. Water molecule are much smaller (smallest diameter of all the molecules participating in this process) than the THCA/Terpenes, so they fall into the net's pores. Some molecules/organic groups of the THCA/Terpenes also fall, not a lot, and that's why the taste of bubble hash is not the same as the original pheno/strain/buds the maker used to create the bubble hash. Plant material is also a bit smaller than THCA/Terpenes, but, because of Covalent bonds, SOME molecules of plant material stay. so it's not "100%" THCA/Terpenes. that's it. after that, you dry the bubble hash for few days with 35%-55% RH and it's ready. no need for Cellophane/Vacuum/Temple ball forming.
Ofc the ice/cold water also help the trichomes fall off the herb/trim, and the molecules of THCA/Terpenes are a bit bigger than Water/Plant material, so they stay on the nets.
Fine, but then I suggest people not to pay too much for Piatella other than 6 stars bubble hash.
I understand, but depends what the price is. don't let marketing tricks pay you more.
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staircase slight of hand
Well-Known Member
With all due respect, this is an ignorant and willfully childish attitude to have towards a skilled craft in which you have no experience.
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
some people know how to work, some people know how it works. I am not a worker, but I know everything that is going on in this process because I have mastered in filteration, not in the hash making field, but something else. I know a lot about filteration.
Read #192 message please.
Farid
Well-Known Member
Dry bud is like a sponge. Put it in water and it will weigh the same as if fresh bud is put in water. The overall mass of the water/ice/bud in the vessel will be the same.
Even if that wasn't the case, that 350 grams of mass is negligible compared to the thousands of grams of water.
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
it depends how big is your bucket
if you work with huge bucket, you can insert 700gr of trim maybe?
but if you work with standard bucket, isn't it better to insert 100gr-200gr each time?
I misspoke. I was specifically thinking of the drying process prior to curing.
In any case, I think i can't deal with this thread anymore. I would still ask you to consider that there are things beyond your own assumptions. You've got an idea that has no evidence but your own conclusions and you won't be deterred from it. If you were a student in one of my classes I am afraid I would find it difficult to teach you anything you didn't already know.
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staircase slight of hand
Well-Known Member
Curiously enough, this process isn’t simply a matter of pure filtration. You’re approaching the process through the lens of what you feel you’re an expert in, and therefore not realizing how much you’re really addressing a grossly simplified straw man of a process, rather than the process as it actually exists.
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
I learnt a lot from this thread. the fact that some people prefer making bubble hash from fresh frozen and not from dried trim/nugs is a new thing for me. it requires more work (wet material contains 80~% water, dry material contains 10%~ of water) , but it's doable and can be better with some phenos. I don't think I only give information, I also learn.
I am just researching...
Farid
Well-Known Member
It doesn't matter, see my first point. The bud will be water logged regardless. The mass you will spin will be the same. You should never spin dry bud that hasn't had time to become waterlogged because it will create contaminant.
GoldenBud
Well-Known Member
what am I missing? it will be a lot more volume/mass to insert 700gr wet trim inside the bucket of 15Liter instead of 100gr of dry trim
a lot more mass to process i mean
you mean that you will take much bigger bucket and more ice etc?
700gr wet trim = 100gr dry trim
it can't get the screens clogged?