Holy Piatella

[GoldenBud]

Well folks, I think my work is done here for now... it's been real and it's been fun, but I can't say it's been r... blah blah... Anyway, if I ever get up to Maine (about 2 hours away) this summer for one of Hazy Hill Farm's forthcoming Piatella drops, and I feel like dropping the cake, cuz I think it's like $120-$140 for 2 grams, which is way more than I usually like to spend on concentrates, I'll report back cuz theirs at least looks somewhat legit...

take photos of the Piatella for us. I never had this quality of hash, and seems like this hash is even non-sticky, crazy

 

[RxPlorer]

Having a specific person on my Ignore list has made this thread a very... "interesting" read.

 

[GoldenBud]

I remind you that jealousy makes your face's skin older..

 

[btka]

no monkey mind, i may didn't explain well:

listen, if you have a bucket which has a capacity of 15 liters, it matters if you work with 50gr dry herb buds or 400gr WET nugs. different mass, different volume. how much cycles will it take? how much water do u need? how much ice do u need?

won't it be easier just to let all these 400gr dry and then work with 50gr dry herb?

Other than that, Piatella is being done with wet nugs. and cellophane/vacuum methods. I don't like the cellophane/vacuum methods tho and I think it's just marketing. THCA doesn't need messing too much imho, i think it's like a "Tik Tok" Trend.

Does not matter a lot if wet or dry… dry material is soaking water at the end they weight more or less same, when you make bubble….

Dark color can be oxidation, that’s one of the reasons why they use freeze dryers (fast drying less oxidation) - brighter color

I can say from experimenting that the same bubble will get dark if you dry it in room temp. Vs drying in a cold environment… can it be that the water content in the bubble have something to do with that…
For example dry sift will stay the same color after sifting… (as far as I saw, I am not having a lot experience with dry sift)..

And what would you think would be the best technique to filter Resin from cannabis…

Dry sift I think would be better quality then bubble (because of water used as a solvent in bubble) which also „steels“ Terpenes (they get lost in water)… but refining dry sift seems to be more work (with static tech) and possible less yield… I am thinking also about filtering with hot air (like volcano vape).. when you extract with hot air thc and terps and let it condense in the bags and later collect the condensed goodies from the inside of bag…

I am interested in new ways of filtering collecting resin from cannabis…

What would be the best way scientifical to do so… and which technique would be easiest and best you can think of?

 

[GoldenBud]

Does not matter a lot if wet or dry… dry material is soaking water at the end they weight more or less same, when you make bubble….

when the trim/nugs are wet, there are strong bonds between the water to the organic compounds. it takes a lot of energy to separate them.

Dark color can be oxidation, that’s one of the reasons why they use freeze dryers (fast drying less oxidation) - brighter color

dunno if it's the case, i don't want to say 100%, but i know that these organic molecules are very stable and it will take a lot of time for them to get oxidized.

 

[Bologna]

Oh and here's a review I stumbled across on Reddit of that Patella by Hazy Hill Farm from a couple weeks ago... and it was $70 a gram at that Farm to Patient event:

"I went wit the Piatella! I like it! It’s basically like a wetter fullmelt but handles more like wet sand or sugar. Definitely easier to deal with than full melt. Almost like isolate texture. Makes loading up a cold start dab a breeze. Took a dab, flavor and nose are incredible. So tasty and gassy . Flavor was good through out the whole dab no burnt popcorn smell or taste. Melts like normal fullmelt but does leave some residue. I used a puffco 3d chamber and at 515 with vapor control maxed, I was able to swab out the residue easy with no char left on the bowl. I’m absolutely ripped right now. Deff would buy again for the high by itself! I’ll for sure enjoy seeing more of it!"

Edit: I wonder how much flower it takes to make a gram, like what the dried manicured weight would be....? Their storefront sells all their flower at a flat rate of $225 an oz (without applying any discounts.) As pricey as it is, I'd bet it's probably among their least profitable products, even without it being offered in discounted baller jars...
Killer menu tho regardless

 

[btka]

K

when the trim/nugs are wet, there are strong bonds between the water to the organic compounds. it takes a lot of energy to separate them.

dunno if it's the case, i don't want to say 100%, but i know that these organic molecules are very stable and it will take a lot of time for them to get oxidized.

thanks for your answer I edited my post can you please read again and tell me what you think about it…

 

[GoldenBud]

I can say from experimenting that the same bubble will get dark if you dry it in room temp. Vs drying in a cold environment… can it be that the water content in the bubble have something to do with that…

I am not sure it depends on cold enviroment or room temp but more how much % of RH there is in the room?
like, some people like to dry their hash/herb in 35% RH , some prefer 50% RH...
Not sure tho, interesting to hear how much % of RH you've got
colder environment means higher % RH usually i think?

Dry sift I think would be better quality then bubble (because of water used as a solvent in bubble) which also „steels“ Terpenes (they get lost in water)… but refining dry sift seems to be more work (with static tech) and possible less yield… I am thinking also about filtering with hot air (like volcano vape).. when you extract with hot air thc and terps and let it condense in the bags and later collect the condensed goodies from the inside of bag…

From the article I've posted in message 129/130 in this thread, it's also pheno dependent. Try wet trim/nugs or dried, or maybe ice of CO2? like dry ice.. and see what you prefer..

What would be the best way scientifical to do so… and which technique would be easiest and best you can think of?

the best tip I can give, according to the guy who taught me a lot about cannabis, is finding the best phenotype you can, like, if you can grow, do a selection of 10-20 seeds, pick the best, (it requires 2 setups, one to select a pheno and one tent for mother keeping) and work with it. it's an investment for years. a good pheno will give you more trichomes.

 

[Farid]

Do not try dry ice, it is full of contaminant. You want your water and ice to be as pure as possible.

"Filtering" with hot air is not filtering. It's just vaping and collecting the condensate. Will be terribly low quality.

If you're vaping it, dry sift is perfectly good. You don't even need to get full melt to have a very quality experience, half melt will be very enjoyable. And making half melt is not difficult at all, and the yields are good.

If you're going to dab it, I'd personally make half melt dry sift and press it into rosin. The only reason I'd make bubble would be if I was processesing very large quantities. Then I would probably still take the lower melt stuff and press it, and only leave the 90 micron stuff untouched.

If smoking it, then the full melt is ideal. Bubble will be a lot easier to get full melt from than dry sift for most people.

 

[GoldenBud]

Do not try dry ice, it is full of contaminant. You want your water and ice to be as pure as possible.

it should be 100% CO2... maybe it depends where you buy it from and what's the price etc'

 

[invertedisdead]

Dry sift I think would be better quality then bubble (because of water used as a solvent in bubble) which also „steels“ Terpenes (they get lost in water)

Water is not used as a solvent, bubble hash is a mechanical extraction. The cold water is used to make the trichome heads brittle so they can be cleaved off their capitate stalks via agitation.

Any aromatics “lost” to the water is going to be negligible compared to what is retained by being able to run fresh frozen plants. Probably more likely flavonoids than terpenes (terpenes are only one type of aromatic compound found in the plant - there are others) For example when we see water turning purple from anthocyanins - those are flavonoids. You’d have to be bursting trichomes for terpenes to leech out and even then most are not water soluble and it’s not like a vaporizer where condensation of terpenes is a factor.

And yeah, dry ice hash is not good. Much better off with even a crude dry sift IME.

 

[Bologna]

You want your water and ice to be as pure as possible.

So I assume these high end makers use distilled or reverse osmosis water throughout the entire process...? That alone must get pretty costly... no wonder it's still so expensive in relatively inexpensive markets like Maine. $50-80/gm is more than I like to spend on anything.

 

[Farid]

Yes, at the very least they use filtered. And if you can't afford to use that quality for mixing you'll at least want to have the water in your sprayer to be of that quality, since that's the last water that will be in contact with the resin.

 

[GoldenBud]

Water is not used as a solvent, bubble hash is a mechanical extraction. The cold water is used to make the trichome heads brittle so they can be cleaved off their capitate stalks via agitation.

that's right! trichomes are not water soluble, water just helps transport the trichomes after the cold ice removed the trichomes/oils from the plant, and then the water pass the net's pores because they are the smallest molecules in the system

 

[btka]

Water is not used as a solvent, bubble hash is a mechanical extraction. The cold water is used to make the trichome heads brittle so they can be cleaved off their capitate stalks via agitation.

Any aromatics “lost” to the water is going to be negligible compared to what is retained by being able to run fresh frozen plants. Probably more likely flavonoids than terpenes (terpenes are only one type of aromatic compound found in the plant - there are others) For example when we see water turning purple from anthocyanins - those are flavonoids. You’d have to be bursting trichomes for terpenes to leech out and even then most are not water soluble and it’s not like a vaporizer where condensation of terpenes is a factor.

And yeah, dry ice hash is not good. Much better off with even a crude dry sift IME.

that's right! trichomes are not water soluble, water just helps transport the trichomes after the cold ice removed the trichomes/oils from the plant, and then the water pass the net's pores because they are the smallest molecules in the system

You are completely right!

 

[GoldenBud]

Oh and here's a review I stumbled across on Reddit of that Patella by Hazy Hill Farm from a couple weeks ago... and it was $70 a gram at that Farm to Patient event:

it looks amazing. and it doesn't stick to the knife.. amazing. well, idk how is it possible that it's not sticky, maybe it has very low water content? like almost zero? I think, but not sure, if the water content will be higher it will be more sticky; water and oils together...
other than that, this is not true, THC/THCA/Terpenes are very stable molecules; the air will takes weeks or more to oxidize them... I am not sure it's true:

P.S
the best hash I have ever had was very, very sticky... like this:

And I think it has more water content than the Piatella. and ofcourse, more Chlorophyll/Plant material

 

[Bologna]

it looks amazing. and it doesn't stick to the knife.. amazing. well, idk how is it possible that it's not sticky, maybe it has very low water content? like almost zero? I think, but not sure, if the water content will be higher it will be more sticky; water and oils together...
other than that, this is not true, THC/THCA/Terpenes are very stable molecules; the air will takes weeks or more to oxidize them... I am not sure it's true:

P.S
the best hash I have ever had was very, very sticky... like this:

And I think it has more water content than the Piatella. and ofcourse, more Chlorophyll/Plant material

I don't know what to tell you, man... I'm a hash novice myself, and I learned quite a bit throughout the course of this thread, most of which makes perfect sense to me... I'm afraid any more discussion along these lines to me would be...

 

[GoldenBud]

I don't know what to tell you, man... I'm a hash novice myself, and I learned quite a bit throughout the course of this thread, most of which makes perfect sense to me... I'm afraid any more discussion along these lines to me would be...

yeah you're right, until we see a results graph of some HPLC test to these Piatella, we can't know. very interesting tho. I always thought if a bubble hash is from good quality, it will be sticky. really want to see what it includes, we'll have to patience.
@Bologna
edit
damn look at this!! it looks a bit like Piatella!! 70% THCA.. that's HOT!

https://groovesolventless.com/wp-content/uploads/2022/07/Lemon-Drip-3-Hand-Pressed-Bubble-Hash-HB14.pdf

80% Cannabiniods+Terpenes
~20% left for plant material+water

 

[btka]

Dark color can be oxidation, that’s one of the reasons why they use freeze dryers (fast drying less oxidation) - brighter color

@GoldenBud

I read that terpenes also oxidize and terpenes also are responsible for the color of concentrate (Thca is white as far as I understood)… as I mentioned before freeze drying results in a lighter dried bubble hash then drying in room temp. (or warmer temperature)…

 

[GoldenBud]

@GoldenBud

I read that terpenes also oxidize and terpenes also are responsible for the color of concentrate (Thca is white as far as I understood)… as I mentioned before freeze drying results in a lighter dried bubble hash then drying in room temp. (or warmer temperature)…

yeah they do but they are found in very low amount comparing to THCA... top shelf bubble hash contains around 70% of THCA and maybe 6% of terpenes.. I dunno if that's why the color changes... it looks like the Limonene/Myrcene/Linalool molecules less stable than THCA, but still... small amount....

 

[Cheebsy]

Sometimes small percentages are very potent! I wouldn't assume anything based on concentration alone.

A beer is quite enjoyable for many people. What percentages of hops, or alcohol, or any other desirable ingredient do you think constitute the enjoyment factor? Water is the biggest ingredient, and it's own chemistry make a difference to a beer, but the other ingredients have the most effect.

 

[GoldenBud]

Sometimes small percentages are very potent! I wouldn't assume anything based on concentration alone.

A beer is quite enjoyable for many people. What percentages of hops, or alcohol, or any other desirable ingredient do you think constitute the enjoyment factor? Water is the biggest ingredient, and it's own chemistry make a difference to a beer, but the other ingredients have the most effect.

this contains 74% THCA and 5.4% Terpenes:

even if all the 5.4% Terpenes will be oxidized, it still will have its amber not too dark color..
it won't be 100% oxidized at room temp so easily, but even if so..
for getting oxidized it needs very high temp + Oxygen..


we need more HPLC test results to know if dark hash means high plant material or oxidation. can't find online

 

[btka]

What Causes Color Differences in Rosin?​

What Causes Color Differences in Rosin?

Light color is a positive indicator of quality in the world of solventless cannabis extracts. Off white with a slightly golden hue, like a very light honey, conveys the purity of a concentrate made up almost entirely of fresh resin heads. A light color demonstrates a lack of plant contaminants...

thepressclub.co

 

[Farid]

That article is full of sweeping generalizations, and matter of fact statements on topics that are hotly debated: ex: amber heads being "past their prime".

One shred of truth in there is when they write:

As a general rule, the lighter the rosin the higher the perception of quality. Therefore, extractors prioritize color to increase demand for the product.

Perception is the key word here. In most states in the USA you cannot sample products before purchasing. So bag appeal is prioritized over actual quality. People associate white and clear with purity, and associate brown with dirty or impurity. It's absurd, but its a common perception.

 

[GoldenBud]

and associate brown with dirty or impurity. It's absurd, but its a common perception.

If we look at hash dark color, if it's still sticky, we can assume it's not oxidized I guess. because if it would be oxidized, the stickiness of the hash would be reduced. i don't think hash can be also dark color + sticky. oxidation would make it much less sticky. so, if we have some dark hash which is still sticky or even very sticky, it's probably having higher plant material content IMHO...

dabs color i still dunno because i barely had any dab in my life....