Fluxer Heaters, induction heaters for Dynavap
- Thread starter mr_cfromcali
- Start date
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- Tags
- induction heater
The Flix should begin to be available within 2-3 weeks. I'll be posting more info on ordering before they go on sale. If I notify you about being able to buy a Flux Deluxe and you want to wait to buy a Flix as well, let me know when the time comes.
Please send me an email - not a PM, thank you - and I'll look up your info.
Thanks!
And thanks to @Jill NYC , @Magicman , @Moses Baca , @bannakaffalatta , and @Terpenetime for sharing their Flux Deluxe pics! It's great to see so many cool Fluxer pics!
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Hi Jill!! YES!!
My number came up, I selected the standard model with carbon fiber insert (figure it won't break if I drop it), got the invoice, and paid it this morning.
I have followed @mr_cfromcali journey with the design of this device since his early convos with others on electrical/electronic engineering issues and IMO he has done a GREAT job.
Good product, good ordering process (well, except it would be nice to get a reply email when you get on the wait list...and I think he's working on that), very good communications, and I'm really looking forward to getting it.
I have a Lucid and it works fine. Just a good bit more delicate and the battery capacity is, IMO, insufficient. But it does work well and I haven't used a torch lighter since I got an IH.
Cheers and thanks for the tag.
Bad Dog
Yeah I pissed on the rug...... so what
Hello @mr_cfromcali , first off I'd like to say I'm a fan of your devices and hope to own 1 someday. Something came up in the Dynavap thread and I thought I'd bring it to your attention and see what you think about it. Have you ever thought about including a session (but really it's a monster hit) mode? Allow me to elaborate, the general idea is that it heats till the click then stops for 4 seconds, then re-engages for 1.5-2 seconds then stops for 4 and continues that way till you pull out of the device. @TommyDee brought up the idea of using a infrared sensor to regulate the temperature. I don't have the money, skills or drive to pursue this so I thought since you seem to be at the forefront of performance and innovation might be interested in such a thing. Here's a proof of concept video showing the idea done manually, my apologies for the IH not being a flux, but you can see I get pretty much desktop level performance.
Siebter
Less soul, more mind
If you'd use infrared to monitor the temp, you could just hold it at some point instead of reheating over and over.
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Baron23
Well-Known Member
Yo, Dog...you def need one of these. Me personally, not interested in that type of session mode as I need a breath of fresh air between hard hits off of my VCs! haha
Oxygen is important. LOL
Take care and get on the wait list...you will have plenty of time to save for it.
Cheers
Bad Dog
Yeah I pissed on the rug...... so what
Thought it might be worth the conversation, even bad ideas can spark good ones
RustyOldNail
SEARCH for the treasure...
My ideal IH heater:
(as of now just using the $50 SKJ Chinese IH)
(3) - replaceable 21700 lithium batteries. (Just slightly bigger then 18650’s, but about 20% more capacity)
IR sensor, that turns IH cycle ON, when DV is inserted. No mechanical switches needed, no need to hold the DV down on an internal mechanical switch or hold a button. (The best feature my SKJ already has)
Ability to set the “ON/OFF” cycle in seconds. My SKJ times out just before I get the CLICK, so I have to pull out the DV and re-insert it for just a few seconds with my Titanium tip, and a bit longer with a SS tip.
Adjustable power levels, this could be voltage and or ability to move DV cap in regards to position in IH coil. Having to choose the diameter of the glass/carbon fiber insert, seems to add more complexity for the buyer as well as maker.
A LIPO battery pack while perhaps safer chemistry, usually requires different charging hardware/software, personally I prefer using an external charger, for my 18650 and 21700 batteries. Some of these offerings are now using LIPO packs. It’s usually easier to find your choice of cylindrical batteries then a specific LIPO pack.
The “Slim Automatic” by MagHeater, has a few of these features, but no one has one yet.
Much of this tech is available, but haven’t seen it all in one unit yet. Now a unit with these adjustable features and basically hands free, would be worth $200 to me.
(as of now just using the $50 SKJ Chinese IH)
(3) - replaceable 21700 lithium batteries. (Just slightly bigger then 18650’s, but about 20% more capacity)
IR sensor, that turns IH cycle ON, when DV is inserted. No mechanical switches needed, no need to hold the DV down on an internal mechanical switch or hold a button. (The best feature my SKJ already has)
Ability to set the “ON/OFF” cycle in seconds. My SKJ times out just before I get the CLICK, so I have to pull out the DV and re-insert it for just a few seconds with my Titanium tip, and a bit longer with a SS tip.
Adjustable power levels, this could be voltage and or ability to move DV cap in regards to position in IH coil. Having to choose the diameter of the glass/carbon fiber insert, seems to add more complexity for the buyer as well as maker.
A LIPO battery pack while perhaps safer chemistry, usually requires different charging hardware/software, personally I prefer using an external charger, for my 18650 and 21700 batteries. Some of these offerings are now using LIPO packs. It’s usually easier to find your choice of cylindrical batteries then a specific LIPO pack.
The “Slim Automatic” by MagHeater, has a few of these features, but no one has one yet.
Much of this tech is available, but haven’t seen it all in one unit yet. Now a unit with these adjustable features and basically hands free, would be worth $200 to me.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
There you go @mr_cfromcali - I couldn't have written a better product requirement with 10 goons in a room. Good work @RustyOldNail !
About that 5 pounds of batteries though... 
Kidding of course. Being an old RC hack and a later flashlight junky, I don't have a preference in chemistry. Each has their own implementation advantage.
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Welcome @Newcastle - You have some catching up to do 
RustyOldNail
SEARCH for the treasure...
I was and maybe a little bit still, a “flashlight junky”, after mini AAA keychain lights, then my Zebra SC700d, (21700 battery), I got back to vapes. Either will drain your bank account quicker then an alkaline AAA....
Terpenetime
Well-Known Member
I don’t believe there is any noticeable performance difference between the two inserts. Carbon fibre will definitely be more durable than glass although I think you’d need to be a bit careless with your unit to actually break either. I love carbon fibre but the carbon insert doesn’t come with the ‘under glass’ LED’s that illuminate when the heater is activated, which was a bigger factor for me.
Some Friday Fluxer Updates to Share
1. Flix Cases and Switches: The biggest news is that the Flix cases and switches arrived, and they turned out exactly as I ordered them! Woo hoo! This is a HUGE relief! I'll be sharing some pictures this weekend, as soon as I build out some samples.
2. Flix PCB Drama: Some additional testing revealed that my MOSFET emitter voltages were too high, and I am adding a transient voltage suppression (TVS) diode to the circuit to keep them below their limit. I have some of the right diodes on hand, and have ordered more. I've also revised the Flix PCB to accommodate the new diodes. Both the parts and the updated PCBs should be here in a week or so. (For the sake of completeness, I have a method of installing the through-hole diodes I have on hand, but the revision will incorporate them as SMD components.)
I am also waiting for a big shipment of inductors to get here. Any time would be good, but a few days ago (when they were expected) would have been best...
3. Testing Reveals PTC Fuse Issue: Additional testing also revealed the need to lower the value of the onboard PTC fuses from 9A to 8.5A. The reason behind this is kinda interesting, or at least I think so: PTC fuses work by sensing excess electron flow, and when it exceeds their design spec their resistance increases to the point that they "constrict" themselves shut. They reset once you stop applying power. The thing is, if you use 9A of PTC fuses, you need to exceed that value and pull ~10A in order to trigger the fuses into shutting down. Most 10A power supplies don't actually put out a full 10A of power, and the PTC fuses need the overhead in order to trigger. The fix for this situation was to drop the fuse value down to 8.5A, which does leave enough headroom for a 10A PSU to trigger the PTC fuses, should the need to trigger them arise. But this does have an important safety implication for you: do not use the Flix with any PSU rated at less than 10A output, as the device's fuses won't protect it if the power source can't supply enough power to enable the fuses to activate!!
4. Fluxer IH 'capacitance' is higher than necessary, and why that matters: I fell down a pretty big rabbit hole after discussing induction heating circuit "capacitance" with @TommyDee last weekend, and what I found has implications for both the Flux Deluxe and the Flix.
In the zero voltage switching (ZVS) IH circuit, such as I use in my heaters, the capacitors act like the fuel tank, but in addition to storing the energy for the heater to create its magnetic field, their size (as measured in total voltage) also directly affects the performance of the IH circuit. More capacitance = more heating aggression, and the inverse is also true, which has some big implications.
In the Flux Deluxe and the Flix, I have ALWAYS used two (2x) 0.33uF 630V capacitors, at least until now. It turns out that 2x 630V is actually a lot for our needs, and it explains why the FD heats the Dynavap as aggressively as it does.
It seems obvious in retrospect, but it wasn't quite as obvious at the time I was initially working this stuff out. 
In testing last week, I found that you can create a better experience using significantly less capacitance: 1x .33uF capacitor @ 400V (+/- 50V) may be close to ideal (~350 for ti tips, and around 450 for SS), but I also found that values that low may also create some reliability issues when combined with low voltage use. It's a real can of worms, and I'm trying to find the right way for you, the users, to thread this needle. There are also differences in the way the ti tips and the SS tips behave - exploring this was a big part of the rabbit hole into which I fell. As I said, it's a real can o'worms:
Basically, with less capacitance, you get a lot of the advantages of low voltage use @ 12V, and these extend down to ~10V. Below that you begin to run out of electrons, especially when heating SS tips, and this can starve the MOSFETs and lead to their early demise. Given enough time and testing I could probably build enough protections into the circuit to make this less likely, but I am not sure I could ever prevent it entirely without also preventing low voltage use. Like a lot of things, the sweet spot for ideal heating voltage seems to put the MOSFETs one foot into their grave.
I am going to continue to evaluate this situation before I start selling the Flix, as I'd like to find a way to take advantage of a lower capacitance circuit while also making sure that it's still reliable to use these at lower voltages, but that may need to wait for a future version, or appear as a Custom Shop option. Offering models with lower capacitance may also require me to tell users to not run a lower capacitance heater continuously for longer than 10 seconds, or something like that. The ti tips seem to benefit the most from this change, so I can also see offering a "ti tips only" model with less capacitance in the future. :thinker:
There will be more to come on this, but I probably won't make any capacitance changes to the Flix at the moment.
5. Fluxer web site and store: I still need to update my web site and finish the web store before I can start selling Flix heaters! Now that I am past this PCB drama, those are the next tasks on my list.
6. Variable Voltage PSUs: I received the first of the variable voltage PSUs I mentioned a few pages back, and so far it seems to work as expected.
I have 20 more on order, and hope to make this a regularly stocked item to have on hand to sell, but their manufacturer hasn't shipped those yet, so I don't know when I'll have those available. As a proof of concept, though, they do work and should work well.
That's it for now! A lot happened this week, and I have a lot to get done next week, but I am hopeful that once the remaining parts get here and I finish my web site updates, I can begin selling Flix heaters. With some luck and barring any other weird circuitry discoveries, that should be within the next 1-2 weeks.
Thanks for your support!
Cheers, and have a great weekend!
1. Flix Cases and Switches: The biggest news is that the Flix cases and switches arrived, and they turned out exactly as I ordered them! Woo hoo! This is a HUGE relief! I'll be sharing some pictures this weekend, as soon as I build out some samples.
2. Flix PCB Drama: Some additional testing revealed that my MOSFET emitter voltages were too high, and I am adding a transient voltage suppression (TVS) diode to the circuit to keep them below their limit. I have some of the right diodes on hand, and have ordered more. I've also revised the Flix PCB to accommodate the new diodes. Both the parts and the updated PCBs should be here in a week or so. (For the sake of completeness, I have a method of installing the through-hole diodes I have on hand, but the revision will incorporate them as SMD components.)
I am also waiting for a big shipment of inductors to get here. Any time would be good, but a few days ago (when they were expected) would have been best...
3. Testing Reveals PTC Fuse Issue: Additional testing also revealed the need to lower the value of the onboard PTC fuses from 9A to 8.5A. The reason behind this is kinda interesting, or at least I think so: PTC fuses work by sensing excess electron flow, and when it exceeds their design spec their resistance increases to the point that they "constrict" themselves shut. They reset once you stop applying power. The thing is, if you use 9A of PTC fuses, you need to exceed that value and pull ~10A in order to trigger the fuses into shutting down. Most 10A power supplies don't actually put out a full 10A of power, and the PTC fuses need the overhead in order to trigger. The fix for this situation was to drop the fuse value down to 8.5A, which does leave enough headroom for a 10A PSU to trigger the PTC fuses, should the need to trigger them arise. But this does have an important safety implication for you: do not use the Flix with any PSU rated at less than 10A output, as the device's fuses won't protect it if the power source can't supply enough power to enable the fuses to activate!!
4. Fluxer IH 'capacitance' is higher than necessary, and why that matters: I fell down a pretty big rabbit hole after discussing induction heating circuit "capacitance" with @TommyDee last weekend, and what I found has implications for both the Flux Deluxe and the Flix.
In the zero voltage switching (ZVS) IH circuit, such as I use in my heaters, the capacitors act like the fuel tank, but in addition to storing the energy for the heater to create its magnetic field, their size (as measured in total voltage) also directly affects the performance of the IH circuit. More capacitance = more heating aggression, and the inverse is also true, which has some big implications.
In the Flux Deluxe and the Flix, I have ALWAYS used two (2x) 0.33uF 630V capacitors, at least until now. It turns out that 2x 630V is actually a lot for our needs, and it explains why the FD heats the Dynavap as aggressively as it does.
It seems obvious in retrospect, but it wasn't quite as obvious at the time I was initially working this stuff out. In testing last week, I found that you can create a better experience using significantly less capacitance: 1x .33uF capacitor @ 400V (+/- 50V) may be close to ideal (~350 for ti tips, and around 450 for SS), but I also found that values that low may also create some reliability issues when combined with low voltage use. It's a real can of worms, and I'm trying to find the right way for you, the users, to thread this needle. There are also differences in the way the ti tips and the SS tips behave - exploring this was a big part of the rabbit hole into which I fell. As I said, it's a real can o'worms:
Basically, with less capacitance, you get a lot of the advantages of low voltage use @ 12V, and these extend down to ~10V. Below that you begin to run out of electrons, especially when heating SS tips, and this can starve the MOSFETs and lead to their early demise. Given enough time and testing I could probably build enough protections into the circuit to make this less likely, but I am not sure I could ever prevent it entirely without also preventing low voltage use. Like a lot of things, the sweet spot for ideal heating voltage seems to put the MOSFETs one foot into their grave.
I am going to continue to evaluate this situation before I start selling the Flix, as I'd like to find a way to take advantage of a lower capacitance circuit while also making sure that it's still reliable to use these at lower voltages, but that may need to wait for a future version, or appear as a Custom Shop option. Offering models with lower capacitance may also require me to tell users to not run a lower capacitance heater continuously for longer than 10 seconds, or something like that. The ti tips seem to benefit the most from this change, so I can also see offering a "ti tips only" model with less capacitance in the future. :thinker:
There will be more to come on this, but I probably won't make any capacitance changes to the Flix at the moment.
5. Fluxer web site and store: I still need to update my web site and finish the web store before I can start selling Flix heaters! Now that I am past this PCB drama, those are the next tasks on my list.
6. Variable Voltage PSUs: I received the first of the variable voltage PSUs I mentioned a few pages back, and so far it seems to work as expected.
I have 20 more on order, and hope to make this a regularly stocked item to have on hand to sell, but their manufacturer hasn't shipped those yet, so I don't know when I'll have those available. As a proof of concept, though, they do work and should work well.That's it for now! A lot happened this week, and I have a lot to get done next week, but I am hopeful that once the remaining parts get here and I finish my web site updates, I can begin selling Flix heaters. With some luck and barring any other weird circuitry discoveries, that should be within the next 1-2 weeks.
Thanks for your support!
Cheers, and have a great weekend!
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Terpenetime
Well-Known Member
Amazing stuff @mr_cfromcali 
To be honest, you lose me in some of the detail but I still get a great deal of pleasure reading about it!
To be honest, you lose me in some of the detail but I still get a great deal of pleasure reading about it!
TommyDee
Vaporitor
Amazing stuff @mr_cfromcali . I'm glad you had a chance to see some of these effect. My recommendation is leave the Fluxer what it has always been simple to eliminate risk. Flix on the other hand has an opportunity to be tweaked since it is not a production unit yet. The only watchword in risky endeavors such as design changes is 'margin'. Margin accounts for loose specs like 400+/-50 which is very poor accuracy.
Definitely would have been cool to watch over your shoulders. I can empathize with what you were looking at. This is a coming together of 3 independent variables with a huge range. Any one of these that go outside their margins stresses the other two. "Please don't put a 1/2" bolt into the fluxer!" for instance.
Fuses - interesting perspective. "The power brick doesn't have enough power to blow the fuses." My safety engineer says "Alleluia!".
Definitely would have been cool to watch over your shoulders. I can empathize with what you were looking at. This is a coming together of 3 independent variables with a huge range. Any one of these that go outside their margins stresses the other two. "Please don't put a 1/2" bolt into the fluxer!" for instance.
Fuses - interesting perspective. "The power brick doesn't have enough power to blow the fuses." My safety engineer says "Alleluia!".
fatbiker
Well-Known Member
High.
Anyone heard back from Fluxer after trying to get on the waiting/wish list for the Flix?
My poor ole VapCap is looking for a new mate/friend.
Tiptoe on.
I am signed up as well and have not heard anything.
Back with another Flix update, but I think it's a good one.
There have been a few more twists to the Flix story since I posted last night, involving the usual elements of new parts not fitting as expected. This story has a happy ending, but I'll try to keep it brief.
The ZVS induction heating circuit uses a passive electrical component called an inductor. Most actually use two. They are the small, wire-wound toroids - aka "donuts" - that store the energy in a magnetic field. The size I need has been hard to locate recently, and I have had to find some new supply lines. I found a vendor on aliexpress.com who appeared to have what I needed and ordered enough to build 70 heaters, which is enough to keep me going for a bit but doesn't commit me to owning hundred of inductors. I complained about these not arriving on time as expected, but they finally showed up yesterday, after I posted.
The new size is on the left, the current size on the right:
The new ones are each ~1.5mm wider than the old ones, so 3mm wider in total, and of course that matters, lol!
This is how I had originally arranged the inductors on the Flix, on either side of the capacitors. There was enough room for clearance:
The new ones are too wide to permit this layout and touch the sides of the case, which is a no-no.
This situation is complicated by the capacitor issue I mentioned yesterday - the black rectangular capacitors in the above picture are each rated to 630V, which is "hot" for our purposes. For the Flix, I would like to use a lower voltage capacitor, as it doesn't need to be as hot as that.
After some extensive trial and error involving the new inductors and several different capacitors - - this is what I landed on:
It moves the inductors to the "front" of the PCB, and uses a pair of 450V capacitors for power. The new capacitors are even more compact than the previous ones, which makes this possible. This version has been 100% stable in the testing I've done so far, even at extremely low voltages (~7.5V) and even when heating the SS tip at those same low voltages, both issues I expressed concerns about yesterday. I have some more testing to do to confirm this, but so far, so good. Huzzah!I am sending one to my tester today to pound on, but barring a bunch of failures, this is the version that's going into production.
This is important, as the capacitance of the circuit plays a role in choosing the size of the coil to use, and I couldn't move on to coil size until I settled the capacitor issue. At the moment, I am planning on using the 16mm x 2mm insert as the default size for the Flix. the 16mm x 2mm size is my mildest, least aggressive coil size. It works well with both ti and SS tips at every voltage level, so it seems like the obvious choice.
I expect to come out with some add'l Flix models in the future with different capacitors and coils - I would like to offer a lower capacity model specifically for ti tips, for example, as there is a lot of flavor to be found in that configuration - but the above setup should be a good one to start with, and should make most people happy.
Finally, here's a picture of the different colors that will be available, with the caveat that I only have a couple of the unfinished cases on hand:
More to come...
Updated to correct my dumb capacitor math.
There have been a few more twists to the Flix story since I posted last night, involving the usual elements of new parts not fitting as expected. This story has a happy ending, but I'll try to keep it brief.
The ZVS induction heating circuit uses a passive electrical component called an inductor. Most actually use two. They are the small, wire-wound toroids - aka "donuts" - that store the energy in a magnetic field. The size I need has been hard to locate recently, and I have had to find some new supply lines. I found a vendor on aliexpress.com who appeared to have what I needed and ordered enough to build 70 heaters, which is enough to keep me going for a bit but doesn't commit me to owning hundred of inductors. I complained about these not arriving on time as expected, but they finally showed up yesterday, after I posted.
The new size is on the left, the current size on the right:
The new ones are each ~1.5mm wider than the old ones, so 3mm wider in total, and of course that matters, lol!
This is how I had originally arranged the inductors on the Flix, on either side of the capacitors. There was enough room for clearance:
The new ones are too wide to permit this layout and touch the sides of the case, which is a no-no.
This situation is complicated by the capacitor issue I mentioned yesterday - the black rectangular capacitors in the above picture are each rated to 630V, which is "hot" for our purposes. For the Flix, I would like to use a lower voltage capacitor, as it doesn't need to be as hot as that.
After some extensive trial and error involving the new inductors and several different capacitors -
- this is what I landed on:
It moves the inductors to the "front" of the PCB, and uses a pair of 450V capacitors for power. The new capacitors are even more compact than the previous ones, which makes this possible. This version has been 100% stable in the testing I've done so far, even at extremely low voltages (~7.5V) and even when heating the SS tip at those same low voltages, both issues I expressed concerns about yesterday. I have some more testing to do to confirm this, but so far, so good. Huzzah!
I am sending one to my tester today to pound on, but barring a bunch of failures, this is the version that's going into production. This is important, as the capacitance of the circuit plays a role in choosing the size of the coil to use, and I couldn't move on to coil size until I settled the capacitor issue. At the moment, I am planning on using the 16mm x 2mm insert as the default size for the Flix. the 16mm x 2mm size is my mildest, least aggressive coil size. It works well with both ti and SS tips at every voltage level, so it seems like the obvious choice.
I expect to come out with some add'l Flix models in the future with different capacitors and coils - I would like to offer a lower capacity model specifically for ti tips, for example, as there is a lot of flavor to be found in that configuration - but the above setup should be a good one to start with, and should make most people happy.
Finally, here's a picture of the different colors that will be available, with the caveat that I only have a couple of the unfinished cases on hand:
More to come...
Updated to correct my dumb capacitor math.
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TommyDee
Vaporitor
Good to hear you rained in the input range @mr_cfromcali . These will be awesome!
You might double check that adding of voltages on capacitors... Capacitance adds in parallel.
You might double check that adding of voltages on capacitors... Capacitance adds in parallel.
Jill NYC
Portable Hoarder
Unfortunately, his system is currently not set up to send you a confirmation email. One day, I am sure he will get to it, but for now, you just need to have trust in @mr_cfromcali that he will get to you when your time comes up.
FWIW- I have been following since the first post, and I have yet to hear a single person send in a request and not get their IH in the order in which they signed up.