Ok plainlazy will do.
Discontinued Elevape SV
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*plainlazy*
Well-Known Member
Sent email they stated dont send it back we are contacting the manufacturer next and will contact me back with next steps. They replied to my first message to them with in 20mins. Hoping to get this asap. I did tell vapefiend to check this thread to confirm theres problems with certain batches.
tripwire
Jack of all trades, partaker of vape
This is the first I am hearing about this. What part? How come owners aren't advised, either by email or on the website.
I reported the same, months ago. My unit is in, for the second time. Still waiting for a functional vape.
The problem is with the batteries on a few models getting a new one sent out today from the great guys at vapefine..
OF
Well-Known Member
You know, now that we have a second guy having troubles I'm even more convinced that it's technique related (that is I can't see a couple of independent but defective units in the same week. It occurs to me that guys might just not understand convection vaping as happening here?
To make vapor you need heat. in Elevape the heat and load are separated and unless you pull on it no significant herb will be heated. In more typical conduction vapes this is not the case, nor is it in blazing. There is no vapor simply waiting for you to suck away. You have to use the hot air to transfer the heat to the load before you can expect vapor. Even though the heater heats very fast, the heat is in the wrong place, and too little heat will come from simple puffs to raise the temperature in the load much.
You need to pull hot air through the ESV to heat the load FIRST before you'll get significant vapor production. Up until you get stuff up to 400F or so, any heat added is just raising the average temperature toward that goal for the most part. Forget trying to 'make clouds', concentrate on transferring the heat instead.
With ThermoVape T1/Evolution/Cera (3 similar portable convection vapes now no longer vapes) we faced this with the added problem of the lack of speed in heating and the indicator light. It could take 15 seconds sometimes to 'make temperature' something ESV does automatically in a second or so. We called this time, waiting for full heat 'step1'. Again, not needed with ESV. However, step 2 (long steady pulls to transfer heat) I fear may not be happening because guys don't understand convection as used here? The idea is to use long, steady pulls (say 15 seconds to a lung full) to transfer heat. This time will go up as the load is consumed and will be shorted if the vape is still hot from the last hit. You taste for vapor (or at least heat). When you think you're there, 'release a test puff' (invented by our very own 'Same Old Tim', their star core builder at the time). You'd blow out a small puff, like on a cigar, to see if there was solid vapor there. Solid, no cheating. Then step 2 was done, the core was hot, the load was at working temperature (at least for a second or two) you'd blow out the partial hit (yes, dump it fast) then hit it as you wish (step 3).
Perhaps it's worth while for guys to try a modified version of the '3 step process' here? It's not really needed, but it I'm thinking it might help guys underhand the process? I suggest starting with a moderately packed fine to medium grind of some well cured, potent bud. With the coil flat (as shipped), set a few steps up (say 2 or 3 as shipped) 'chain hit' it at that 15 seconds or so to the lung full to transfer heat (not get a hit per se). The body will warm, keep drawing the heat though the load and tasting.. When you think something might be happening, take a test puff. Don't try to get loaded, you're learning. It might take several pulls to get the hang of it. Once you get a solid test puff, blow everything out and hit it as you wish. At that point, the load is at the magic temperature, any hot air pulled through makes vapor, up to that point, hot air only makes it hotter, it doesn't make vapor.
Don't mess with tilting the coil. If you research that mod you'll find it's to stop/control combustion (not your current problem), in reality bending it down lowers temperature, not what is wanted.......
If the load goes in moist and green and comes out dry and brown, you extracted all the THC. You just missed it. There is no other possibility. ESV, unlike blazing, doesn't destroy THC. I'm thinking guys are using a 'normal' technique (expecting vapor automatically) and basically are repeatedly heating barely up to temperature time after time after time getting the deliver spaced out over so much time it's not effective?
I had another nice chat with Joe the other day ('geek to geek' as it were.....). He's bedeviled by returns, surprisingly mostly from Europe? With the exception of battery problems from the old software and guys 'using while charging' (with a 'dead flat' battery) there are very few real failures. A couple of heater issues, perhaps 'self inflicted' by guys messing with the screws for the most part. The vast majority are within specks ('nothing wrong') when returned to the default configuration. It's worth checking if you doubt yours, but it seems the chances it has a defect (as opposed to a technique) issue is probably very small.
I don't believe IPuff is shipping defective units. Joe is too smart for that. Field returns are very expensive and to be avoided in the Business Model being used. If 'the mirror test' shows your unit is firing the heater normally it has to make vapor with correct load and technique. The laws of chemistry and physics won't allow other results. Hot makes vapor if possible.
I'm thinking guys are being too shy with the heat, not knowing it was their job to draw hot air though the load until it too gets hot before any useful vapor happens? That's so natural to many of us you'll note from the start guys have had issues with combustion? That is too much vapor......
Concentrate a bit on making hot air, not vapor. Chain hit as needed, keep a slow steady draw up until you get the temperature up to the magic zone? Don't 'take a hit' keep drawing through. Ignore the vapor until it starts to choke you? It can be done, but not with poor technique. And bending the coil is working against your goals, that's for limiting combustion on the front of the load so the rest can be vaped.......not the problem here?
Like many things it takes a little learning is all? This convection vape is not like other (conduction) ones, vapor is not automatic, your technique is part of the process.
OF
To make vapor you need heat. in Elevape the heat and load are separated and unless you pull on it no significant herb will be heated. In more typical conduction vapes this is not the case, nor is it in blazing. There is no vapor simply waiting for you to suck away. You have to use the hot air to transfer the heat to the load before you can expect vapor. Even though the heater heats very fast, the heat is in the wrong place, and too little heat will come from simple puffs to raise the temperature in the load much.
You need to pull hot air through the ESV to heat the load FIRST before you'll get significant vapor production. Up until you get stuff up to 400F or so, any heat added is just raising the average temperature toward that goal for the most part. Forget trying to 'make clouds', concentrate on transferring the heat instead.
With ThermoVape T1/Evolution/Cera (3 similar portable convection vapes now no longer vapes) we faced this with the added problem of the lack of speed in heating and the indicator light. It could take 15 seconds sometimes to 'make temperature' something ESV does automatically in a second or so. We called this time, waiting for full heat 'step1'. Again, not needed with ESV. However, step 2 (long steady pulls to transfer heat) I fear may not be happening because guys don't understand convection as used here? The idea is to use long, steady pulls (say 15 seconds to a lung full) to transfer heat. This time will go up as the load is consumed and will be shorted if the vape is still hot from the last hit. You taste for vapor (or at least heat). When you think you're there, 'release a test puff' (invented by our very own 'Same Old Tim', their star core builder at the time). You'd blow out a small puff, like on a cigar, to see if there was solid vapor there. Solid, no cheating. Then step 2 was done, the core was hot, the load was at working temperature (at least for a second or two) you'd blow out the partial hit (yes, dump it fast) then hit it as you wish (step 3).
Perhaps it's worth while for guys to try a modified version of the '3 step process' here? It's not really needed, but it I'm thinking it might help guys underhand the process? I suggest starting with a moderately packed fine to medium grind of some well cured, potent bud. With the coil flat (as shipped), set a few steps up (say 2 or 3 as shipped) 'chain hit' it at that 15 seconds or so to the lung full to transfer heat (not get a hit per se). The body will warm, keep drawing the heat though the load and tasting.. When you think something might be happening, take a test puff. Don't try to get loaded, you're learning. It might take several pulls to get the hang of it. Once you get a solid test puff, blow everything out and hit it as you wish. At that point, the load is at the magic temperature, any hot air pulled through makes vapor, up to that point, hot air only makes it hotter, it doesn't make vapor.
Don't mess with tilting the coil. If you research that mod you'll find it's to stop/control combustion (not your current problem), in reality bending it down lowers temperature, not what is wanted.......
If the load goes in moist and green and comes out dry and brown, you extracted all the THC. You just missed it. There is no other possibility. ESV, unlike blazing, doesn't destroy THC. I'm thinking guys are using a 'normal' technique (expecting vapor automatically) and basically are repeatedly heating barely up to temperature time after time after time getting the deliver spaced out over so much time it's not effective?
I had another nice chat with Joe the other day ('geek to geek' as it were.....). He's bedeviled by returns, surprisingly mostly from Europe? With the exception of battery problems from the old software and guys 'using while charging' (with a 'dead flat' battery) there are very few real failures. A couple of heater issues, perhaps 'self inflicted' by guys messing with the screws for the most part. The vast majority are within specks ('nothing wrong') when returned to the default configuration. It's worth checking if you doubt yours, but it seems the chances it has a defect (as opposed to a technique) issue is probably very small.
I don't believe IPuff is shipping defective units. Joe is too smart for that. Field returns are very expensive and to be avoided in the Business Model being used. If 'the mirror test' shows your unit is firing the heater normally it has to make vapor with correct load and technique. The laws of chemistry and physics won't allow other results. Hot makes vapor if possible.
I'm thinking guys are being too shy with the heat, not knowing it was their job to draw hot air though the load until it too gets hot before any useful vapor happens? That's so natural to many of us you'll note from the start guys have had issues with combustion? That is too much vapor......
Concentrate a bit on making hot air, not vapor. Chain hit as needed, keep a slow steady draw up until you get the temperature up to the magic zone? Don't 'take a hit' keep drawing through. Ignore the vapor until it starts to choke you? It can be done, but not with poor technique. And bending the coil is working against your goals, that's for limiting combustion on the front of the load so the rest can be vaped.......not the problem here?
Like many things it takes a little learning is all? This convection vape is not like other (conduction) ones, vapor is not automatic, your technique is part of the process.
OF
Jack Sprat
Well-Known Member
No idea of what part nor why people aren't being informed of the problem. All I know is that the problem exists, there is a fix for it, and the fix works a charm.
Joe could answer your questions.
@OF I was told that there are units built with a part that came out of spec from their supplier.
btka
Well-Known Member
my experience... you have to dial in this vape... as i got mine i had a herb shortage and did not want to waste herb and i also was not happy with the performance of this vape....
after month lying int he corner i gave it another chance... plugged it to my pc experiment with different heat settings... adjusted the coil and used the bottle cap modification because of uneven bowls (had some black spots im the herb/BOWL)...and my esv gave me good clouds... you have toexperiment ...
you also have to fill the bowl up loosely and grind fine...
This vape needs a little bit of time and experimenting then it should work....
after month lying int he corner i gave it another chance... plugged it to my pc experiment with different heat settings... adjusted the coil and used the bottle cap modification because of uneven bowls (had some black spots im the herb/BOWL)...and my esv gave me good clouds... you have toexperiment ...
you also have to fill the bowl up loosely and grind fine...
This vape needs a little bit of time and experimenting then it should work....
OF
Well-Known Member
Yes, but that was long ago. And it didn't keep units that fired normally from working right? Not a factor in new units as I understand it. Again, I seriously doubt a guy will get a defective unit buying today. If I understood Joe (always a question) there just aren't significant field returns of defective units save battery/software failures over time, and screw contact issues, again over time. Guys generally start out with working units out of the box......despite what you might 'read on the web'?
Each guys call, of course but that's my 'take' on it.
OF
tripwire
Jack of all trades, partaker of vape
OF, OF, OF. Telling me how to vape! I believe the eNano and the VG's operate similarly? Load is separate from heat, user has to draw heat TO TEMP through the material. eNano is my daily driver. Give me a working ESV and I will spin gold clouds through it in seconds!
Thank you for sharing this with us JS. I know this to be the case with my unit. Joe is replacing the main board and battery on my ESV.
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Jack Sprat
Well-Known Member
Yes, it kept units that appeared to work (coil heating) from actually working properly.
It's not out of the realm of possibility that there are still units being sold with this problem if not bought directly from Elevape. Sometimes stock sits around for a while.
In any event there is a fix, the fix works, and the Elevape is a good little piece of kit.
Mine was not from elevape will have a new one tomorrow so will let you guys know thanks for the help..
OF
Well-Known Member
No, I'm suggesting things I know to have been problems to others in similar conditions. Trying to help guys out?
I don't know about eNano (never seen one) but I think VG is a poor comparison in that thee's a huge amount of energy available compared to ESV. ESV is therefore more demanding of technique, more on the lines of the TV products (which ran about 20 Watts), still VG experience might help, something I don't think the guys having trouble have?
A lot of this is based on what I think Joe told me, there just aren't defective units out of the box......most of the returns are 'no problme found'......as it often is in Customer Service. I could be wrong, next time I'm chatting with him I'll try to dig a bit deeper.
Edit: FWIW have I said anything you disagree with, anything you think is misleading? TIA
My understanding is Joe tried to recall all effected units in dealer's stock.....because he's smart. Perhaps not all dealers cooperated? But the bottom line, when I asked about his field returns, were outlined above (basically no 'out of the box duds'). He's just not finding defects to fix past the 'use while charging killing the battery with the old software' bit......but that's not out of the box failure. Worth considering, but IMO not likely.
OF
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OF
Well-Known Member
When i had contact with Joe he told me to send my elevape back after what i told him was wrong just saying
Yes, he said there are two on the way back to the European Service Center though the dealer. Those are the only two reported. They are due for a thorough 'going over', Joe was 'up early' (for us) discussing this with the Engineers there, discussing why is this a UK issue (like could it be a 50HZ issue, which it can't be)? They're on top of it.
Hopefully we'll know more soon. For now I'm confident it's not the year old defective part issue. Right now the ESV 'RMA ratio' (field returns as a percentage of production) is 'in the 3 to 4% range', very good for such a product at this time I think. So we're talking 30 or 40 or the over 1000 made? Right now most of the returns are not defective (as happens), and those few that are are mostly from the two above problems, killing the battery with the old feature or coil screw problems (mostly self caused). If it fires as seen in the mirror, it's almost certainly working right. Especially if you bought it new lately.
While some will have to wait with baited breath the results of the inspections, I'll continue to enjoy mine.....hopefully those with issues will get them resolved quickly and you can join the rest of us 'happy campers'.
OF
Jack Sprat
Well-Known Member
OF
Well-Known Member
Wow, something happened here. My computer crashed just as I posted, it seems to have left 1/2 of the post out and goofed up the quotes. The one above doesn't belong to Tripwire.......
The response was, of course to Al...
Let me see if I can recall the high points.
I called Joe, much as I don't like to disturb a guy with a job to do (although he's great fun to chat with, kind of a 'kindred spirit'). The issue TW is talking about is something unrelated I think. An incorrect part was installed in about 40 boards before discovery OVER A YEAR AGO. They did a purge and recalled/replaced as best they could, but lacking exact S/N records of which units they went into can't be 100% sure. But that was many hundreds of units ago, like close to 1000.
The 'low heat' problem TW reported couldn't be reproduced. The part was correct, Joe even did a 'live use test' on the returned unit. Then, to be positive it wasn't an intermittent that didn't show up he traded the PCB (with the part) and battery (which might have been damaged) for continued test so he could return the unit. Those parts never failed in extended testing. The unit came back 'working correctly' and was tested for normal operation before return (with the real deal) as I understand. Unfortunately, that still wasn't satisfactory on the owner's end so Joe is replacing the entire unit (he said he'd just checked, it's cleared customs, you should have it soon). Good luck with that one.
It seems this has no impact on the two units from the UK. It seems the defective part never really was a problem with TW's unit and the two new buyers have basically a zero chance of having that part (being a year old, known issue).
Sorry for the problems posting, hopefully it makes some sense if you ponder it a mite?
Also hopefully we'll know more soon. Joe and the guys are on it. They are waiting for the two units at the European Service Center through the dealer, and were 'up early' discussing how to go about testing for obscure problems.
Yes, some few were produced.....a while back. When did this happen? What was the S/N?
TIA
OF
Jack Sprat
Well-Known Member
*plainlazy*
Well-Known Member
v interested to see what you think of the replacement. Ive attempted the elevape again. Must say ive used ssv before ive got a e nano and love it. But ive tried everything, ive read this last page over and over trying everything. Got the stir tool out basket screen in. Basket screen out and stock gauze back in. Test puffs. Slow medium and long draws in all different combos and still nothing. Tried 5 cycles on the trot nothing. The material is awesome in the e nano i know its quality. So im at a loss. Something must be up because i cant even force it to combust. Must say i want this to work so bad. Its awesome vape to hold and feels solid i like the look a lot just need to get it to work properly.
OF
Well-Known Member
Actually no, you didn't. You had a battery failure, YOUR UNIT HAD THE CORRECT PART. The shorted battery damaged another, cutting the total power potential of the battery pack. There are six total, but a bad one can suck the whole lot down. Again, not the incorrect part, a battery failure. Those happened in the early serial numbers, around 300, not 1000.
Joe checked on it for me just now, even looked up the photo of the failed battery and PCB with correct part installed.
Same effect, perhaps, but definitely not caused by the incorrect part a year ago. As I understand it you're the only shored cell failure, a legitimate in service failure, but not what's going on now?
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
Beats me, my impression is only one such failure so far, easy to spot if you know what to look for so unlikely to 'slip out'.
My guess is he'd just worked on the other fellows so that possibility was fresh in his mind. It's not something you can check over the phone or web, you'd have to 'see' it to know what's going on. Until you do that, verify exactly what the failure was, it's not useful WRT troubleshooting, let alone jump straight to 'it must be.....'.
Otherwise I have no connection with the company or it's records. I don't know anything past what's here. I'll try to bring it up when I talk to Joe (there's sure to be a 'how's the UK low heat thing going?'), but suspect it was not a shorted cell in the end.....or I misunderstood Joe. It would not take many such failures to cause serious problems. He could replace a LOT of batteries under warranty for instance. He's smart enough to see such things coming. We'd have discussed it I'm sure.
Good at least one of us likes this game, I sure don't relish being in the middle. Based on experiences on other threads I can't encourage Joe to join in (we tend to be a mighty rude bunch at times you know.....) and the details of his failures are confidential. Many outfits have firewalls in, sometimes the competition gets an edge knowing where the weaknesses are. I'm very happy Joe is such a square shooter here, but also believe that much of what goes on should be held 'close to the vest'.
All in all a very sophisticated product I think. Perhaps the most of any vape I can think of in it's own way. A 'thinking man's toy' perhaps, not for everyone for sure and not very flexible. Nor are loads large or the battery life long. As such it's demanding in getting it going right and keeping it so so you an enjoy it. And complex therefore subject to further problems. But I think most agree, when it's running sweet it's really nice. IMO worth the efforts needed to sort out how to marry your technique with it's strong suits.
Joe jokes about 'the thousand guys not having trouble you don't hear from', but that too is the nature of the beast. Vapes are no exception to that rule it seems. "Nobody ever calls back to say 'thanks, it's working fine now'" used to be a standing joke in a shop I worked in once. Some guy would say something like '.....I wonder what ever happened with...' only to get cut off with a chorus of "thanks, it's working fine now!". We'd get a lot of visitors through, it was common for them to get treated to four or five guys all chanting in beat from the secret cue. That too comes with the package.
OF
Jack Sprat
Well-Known Member
Excuse me? I don't know why you keep on challenging me about things which you know nothing about, but I can assure you that none other than Joe himself told me that it had the wrong part in it. As a matter of fact I waited several months for my unit to be fixed due to the part not being in stock.
I was told that their suppliers sent of couple of parts that weren't spec and that's what caused the issue. The unit needed to be 're-chipped' (Joe's term, not mine). Does that sound like a battery issue to you?
In short, in the future please refrain from screaming at me (YOUR UNIT HAD THE CORRECT PART) about things which you know nothing of and lets keep it respectful.
OF
Well-Known Member
But I do know. Exactly. In case you missed it, I checked with Joe just before posting, he went and got the photos of the defective battery and board to confirm.
I'm sorry, I don't mean to shout at you if that's how you take it, I'm trying to emphasize the point. You did not have an incorrect part in your unit. It had a different problem. It had a battery failure, apparently taking a second one. I believe a unique failure in the product family. This is not from me, it's from Joe when I called to get the low down on how far the incorrect part spread. Your saying you had around s/n 1000 didn't fit so I called him back to confirm I understood correctly. It was a few units long before your s/n was made. Those defective parts are not showing up in new production as far as I'm told. IMO it's wrong to tell our fellows otherwise on a number of fronts. This is not a common out of the box fault.
I'm repeating what Joe told me, as accurately as I can, not making it up. You did not have the same failures with the protection circuit. That might have been a guess, but the record passed on by Joe says that's not what really happened.
There's a real easy solution to this, PM or call Joe and see if I'm lying? Until then I'll maintain I'm being honest.
OF
Jack Sprat
Well-Known Member
I'm at a loss to explain your attitude, and am not sure how you 'checked with Joe' without knowing my name, exact serial number, or when it was sent in. It's quite frankly a bit bizarre that you should be contacting a company trying to get details of my RMA, whilst doubting what I was told by said company.
That being said I'll stand by what I was told by Joe regarding the re-chipping of my unit. After all it's his company, and I think he knows his product better than you do.
That being said I'll stand by what I was told by Joe regarding the re-chipping of my unit. After all it's his company, and I think he knows his product better than you do.