Dynavap VapCap

[invertedisdead]

You can heat something too fast and experience negative performance from not achieving a good heat soak/thermal equilibrium.

Here's an analogy I've used on here before.

If I properly heat soak my cast iron skillet over medium heat, the entire pan will be so hot you can't even touch the handle.

However, I can also heat my cast iron pan on high, to the point the bottom of the pan will be smoking, yet the handle will be cold to the touch. This pan appears hotter, but if I went to sear a steak it would cool quickly.

You could reach a "click" from hitting a surface temperature, but not have the latent energy to vaporize - the 2020M sort of works this way, first hit barely produces vapor but by the next click the thermal mass has equalized enough to finish the bowl if wanted.

 

[Mowjo]

@Smokey McVape I had no idea the orion was super aggresive like that. How many loads do you usually get out of it?

@invertedisdead thats a sweet analogy!

 

[Smokey McVape]

@Smokey McVape I had no idea the orion was super aggresive like that. How many loads do you usually get out of it?

@invertedisdead thats a sweet analogy!

@Mowjo - I used the Orion maybe 10 times before I went straight back to my @Pipes Portside Mini so I can't tell you how many bowls you would get on a full charge. I just don't like the unit and am gifting it to a friend who is trying to fuckconbustion.

 

[Zoltani]

How is it that every time I give my M a thorough cleaning I combust shortly after? Is this like the law of dynavaps, or am I just inept?

I thought the cool down click had happened and stuck it in the IH....hey what's that smell? Yuck

 

[RustyOldNail]

How is it that every time I give my M a thorough cleaning I combust shortly after? Is this like the law of dynavaps, or am I just inept?

I thought the cool down click had happened and stuck it in the IH....hey what's that smell? Yuck

It’s the LAW!

 

[Mowjo]

@Smokey McVape Sorry for the confusion I more meant how many times do you reheat one load with that IH.

 

[caliganja420]

Been using my Vaphotbox for 1 year and 9 months, every single day, this thing has not skipped a beat. I HAVE NEVER COMBUSTED WITH THIS UNIT. I use it morning, day and night. It’s still getting me thru a whole week of hard vaping with no charging, that’s close to 100 clicks, which I have still not seen an induction heater achieve . I have not replaced the battery yet and have never sent it in for repair nor Have I had a Single problem. I ordered a Carbon VHB and am very excited for it. These are the best and most indestructible heater ever made and definitely is far more superior then anything ever made In This community. I can literally get 30-35 bowls out of one charge.

 

[TommyDee]

We're on the same page @Smokey McVape . I have not done a torch for reasons but the Orion is way to aggressive indeed.

If you dial an IH to heat the tip at the same rate of your favorite torch method, you will get a very similar experience.
This is managed by the voltage put to the IH. "Rate" of heating. However, not every cap treats this the same in an IH but does with a torch. That is the real difference in my estimation. No two people will have the same experience with an IH is their caps are very different. And caps -are- very different to an IH.

Now there is a possibility, say if you could modulate the Orion, which I find the activation delay absolutely horrid, you will still scorch the flower at the walls because the heat is too intense, even if the total energy imparted is identical. This is possible with PWM as well as you can make a heater push 120 watts of heat for very short periods of time and it won't come out very good. The baking analogy earlier is very appropriate for good flavor profiles.

I do promote power management on the front-end of an IH. There is no comparison to limiting the power your IH will cook your flower to. No magic bullet, but options.

IH's need two adjustments to make them your own - 1) The incursion depth sets the click, and then 2) The power level, in watts, sets the rate of bake. At this point, torch or IH could be identical. I don't torch so I cannot say if these two tuning parameters would have a clear winner. I suspect the properly tuned IH would be more consistent than the torch in the end. The question then becomes - are you that consistent with the torch?

@Rollingstoned - You got the right IH for your sessions. Indeed, those 18650's go a long way. The VHB has the depth adjustment right?

 

[Duba]

Been using my DIY IH (plug) for 1 year and i really like to use it. Been using my 2$ torch for 1 year too and i really like to use it

The Ih and the lighter both require a bit of technique depending on the expected effects.
I like my first draw to be milky and thick; with the torch I heat very low, towards the V of dynavap. With the IH, either I preheat until 1st click or I pulse the heat. Mine heats generally the tip in 10-12 seconds.
I don't like to past the click, either with the torch or the Ih.

I agree with TommyDee because what I've noticed with the Ih especially is differences in performance depending on the cap used (I only have normal cap purchased between 2018 and 2021).
I thought at one point that my IH was becoming less efficient with time but TommyDee reassured me on that level so I continued to use it by putting my attention on the caps :
With the same plant, the same tip, the same technique but by changing the cap, I get uneven results at the 1st heating! Theses differences are less obvious with a torch.

The question then becomes - are you that consistent with the torch?

In my home spot, i'm always consistent with my torch. Outside in the wind, it's more difficult...
Another question becomes : does the IH still work as well in hard conditions (mountain in winter), ? especially in terms of battery performance?

 

[TommyDee]

The weather makes a difference in how long the cap holds heat.
Each draw takes a lot of heat from the cap.
If that fresh air is 20C cooler than indoor vaping, it will reduce the volume of vape extracted for the heat cycle.
What's worse is that more vape will condense on the condenser walls as this too is colder.
If I'm vaping outdoor in the very cold, I draw from within the heater and likely modulating it to keep the local temps up there.
This is one time I appreciate Goldie, the Fluxer Flite with the manual activation switch.

 

[Jah75]

I don't think that is the issue. The vapcap was designed to be used with a torch, and the slower, rotational method of heating with a torch allows the heat to permeate through the bud more than an IH, giving in my experience bigger clouds and quicker (less heat cycles) extraction.
My most aggressive IH is the Orion which I find runs too hot for my liking and scorches loads on the outside meaning that even if you stir the load it tastes bad and my least aggressive is my 3year old PSM which runs much cooler without the scorching but that takes 7-8 heat cycles to extract a full bowl with stirring.
I love my induction heaters (except the Orion) and use them more than torches because they are easier to use and I really like the more flavourful hits they produce, I just haven't found one yet that extracts better than a torch but your experience may differ.

I hated my orion. I had very similar experiences with IH's. I started with a PSM years ago, then bought a flux deluxe - unfortunately I "lost" it (ex GF walked off with it) so I bought the Orion. Waaay too aggressive and I hated the plastic. Bought the VHB carbon and while the adjustments made it able to be tweaked - it still didnt work for me as it isnt very portable (a key need for me) and seemed to be inconcsistant - fst forward to now and a new fluxer flite and I am in IH heaven - PWM, Portability, Great CS and mechanicals - with PWM adjustment I am convinced you can recreate anything your single flame can

@Smokey McVape Sorry for the confusion I more meant how many times do you reheat one load with that IH.

I got like 5 sessions per cap on my orion - it was waaay too aggressive and that lead to incomplete extraction unless I did acrobatics (dry-run heating or drawing from the cap while still in the coil)

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I have been loving the little Hotshot. It doesn't have the new temp adjustment pulsing technology, but I'm good with that. IMHO it was designed to do what the PSM does in a much smaller package and more discreet. It nails it in those areas. I'm glad I got the all black color, it just looks like a little black box with the lid closed. Small enough to carry around easily.

I have been playing with the heat to get it dialed in to my preferences. Out of the box, I got around an 8 second click on a cold start and a 4-5 sec click thereafter. Although when you follow the click, I feel the hit is a bit hotter than what I like and the terps disappear too quickly. I didn't know if we are still not talking about the extra plus it has, but I'll just say that it has another way to help you time your hits, in addition to the cap click. Following that method I have been able to really fine tune my flavor hits.

I added one of the provided additional spacers and am now experimenting with it. It shouldn't take long to get this little guy exactly where I want it. It's doing pretty damn well as it is. I don't doubt that I'll pick up a future IH that has a digital temp adjustment. but that is apples and oranges for why I bought the Hotshot. Well made, tiny, discreet, reasonably priced and readily available. The little fucker is a lot of fun.

 

[KidFated.]

I’ve had my hotshot since middle of February and I’ve been beating the hell out of it usage wise. used up some vacation days (they made me) so I had a few days where it was being pushed pretty dang hard. It’s been flawless. ive been using a Milwaukee M12 battery with a USB adapter to charge it and its been going everywhere with me and the dog. Absolute workhorse so far.

 

[kazz]

I see folks posting about different year caps and tips. How do you determine this? I've traded for some items and would like to know what year the cap is, etc.

 

[KidFated.]

I see folks posting about different year caps and tips. How do you determine this? I've traded for some items and would like to know what year the cap is, etc.

ti tip progression is in page two of the best of dynavap thread. missing a couple limited ones. Caps havent really changed much and don’t change year to year like the SS tips, but they did start putting serial number type things on them, not sure when that started honestly

 

[TommyDee]

I see folks posting about different year caps and tips. How do you determine this? I've traded for some items and would like to know what year the cap is, etc.

This is a deep topic and DV isn't talking. Basically - An IH couples with a cap based on the iron content [simple explanation]. Caps vary from one production run to another production run. The results can be seen when you measure the power the cap draws in comparison with other caps. Power is simply multiplying current times voltage. Watts tells you how hard the cap is coupling with the IH. The tip itself is only about 10% or less of this reading. The cap shields the tip. There are 3 classes of caps in my estimation - 2020 [cold], general [warm], high iron [hot]. The variation from cold to warm is about 5 watts but cold to hot is like 33% different. In an IH, that means 33% more bake-time. I find cold caps don't hold as much heat. A lot of the '19-M's were 'warm' and they do well for a good draw. The highly sought after caps are hot. These hold the most heat, heat quickly, and do some insane rips. These are late '17 and early '18 caps. I also have a '19 cap that is the hottest yet. The '18 and this '19 are my favorites.

Caps are serialized but that is only a reference. The only way to know is to understand the gain ratio - with a variable output power supply, run the IH without the cap. Run the voltage up to where the unit is pulling 1 amp w/o the VC. Now add the cap/VC and take a current reading. If it reads 4 amps, it is a 4:1 ratio cap. 2020 caps pull maybe 3 amps, 3:1 and my hot caps? Fuck, 6.2A for the hottest one and 6.0 for the '18. This is the only way you'll know; get the gain ratio.

I've done a better writeup here on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/inductionheaters/comments/jbzdmx

 

[KidFated.]

@TommyDee are those ratios from brand new never used caps? How does a torch affect the ratio? Heavily torched caps? honestly pretty interesting

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I see folks posting about different year caps and tips. How do you determine this? I've traded for some items and would like to know what year the cap is, etc.

I knew this question was gonna get @TommyDee all excited.

 

[RustyOldNail]

I knew this question was gonna get @TommyDee all excited.

That’s “TommyDeeTheGreat”, so address him properly!

 

[TommyDee]

@TommyDee are those ratios from brand new never used caps? How does a torch affect the ratio? Heavily torched caps? honestly pretty interesting

I have not seen any fading from use. The only thing that degrades over time is the clicker once it cracks. All the iron remains in the cap.

I will add that different IH's will have different results in the gain ratio, but there is variance between caps as well. The less important variation is time to the click in the IH. Hotter caps click faster in a given IH.

 

[kazz]

Caps are serialized but that is only a reference. The only way to know is to understand the gain ratio - with a variable output power supply, run the IH without the cap. Run the voltage up to where the unit is pulling 1 amp w/o the VC. Now add the cap/VC and take a current reading. If it reads 4 amps, it is a 4:1 ratio cap. 2020 caps pull maybe 3 amps, 3:1 and my hot caps? Fuck, 6.2A for the hottest one and 6.0 for the '18. This is the only way you'll know; get the gain ratio.

I've done a better writeup here on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/inductionheaters/comments/jbzdmx

Thank you! I understand the difference now. Just wish it were easier to distinguish between them... I may get ambitious one day and try to set up a system to measure the caps.

Again, thank you.

I will add that different IH's will have different results in the gain ratio, but there is variance between caps as well. The less important variation is time to the click in the IH. Hotter caps click faster in a given IH.

Wait a sec. So, while I might not be able to determine year, I can determine the hotter caps simply by measuring their empty "click time" and comparing? As long as I am using the same heater?

 

[TommyDee]

Oddly enough @kazz, yes, that would be a reasonable assumption since clickers appear to be quite consistent at the same depth in the heaters [except Orion]

If you do have an ammeter and no variable power supply, you don't have to set it for one amp at idle current, you can simply do the math; with-cap-current divided by no-cap-current. You might end up with something like 6A/1.5A=4:1GR

 

[RustyOldNail]

Wait a sec. So, while I might not be able to determine year, I can determine the hotter caps simply by measuring their empty "click time" and comparing? As long as I am using the same heater?

For your test to be more scientific, you should do all the cap tests multiple times with a FULL bowl.

Then schedule a 2nd round of “empty” bowl tests, and depending on how many times you repeat the first FULL bowl cap tests, you won’t remember to do the 2nd round, nor will you care.....

 

[Smokey McVape]

@Smokey McVape Sorry for the confusion I more meant how many times do you reheat one load with that IH.

Ti tip set to 50% in 1 heat cycle.
Ti tip set to 75% in 2 heat cycles.
Ti tip full bowl in 2-3 heat cycles.
Be aware I don't over pack my bowls or tamp them down to allow air to move freely. If you pack your bowls tightly then add an extra heat cycle for each bowl setting.

 

[1101010100101]

This is a deep topic and DV isn't talking. Basically - An IH couples with a cap based on the iron content [simple explanation]. Caps vary from one production run to another production run. The results can be seen when you measure the power the cap draws in comparison with other caps. Power is simply multiplying current times voltage. Watts tells you how hard the cap is coupling with the IH. The tip itself is only about 10% or less of this reading. The cap shields the tip. There are 3 classes of caps in my estimation - 2020 [cold], general [warm], high iron [hot]. The variation from cold to warm is about 5 watts but cold to hot is like 33% different. In an IH, that means 33% more bake-time. I find cold caps don't hold as much heat. A lot of the '19-M's were 'warm' and they do well for a good draw. The highly sought after caps are hot. These hold the most heat, heat quickly, and do some insane rips. These are late '17 and early '18 caps. I also have a '19 cap that is the hottest yet. The '18 and this '19 are my favorites.

Caps are serialized but that is only a reference. The only way to know is to understand the gain ratio - with a variable output power supply, run the IH without the cap. Run the voltage up to where the unit is pulling 1 amp w/o the VC. Now add the cap/VC and take a current reading. If it reads 4 amps, it is a 4:1 ratio cap. 2020 caps pull maybe 3 amps, 3:1 and my hot caps? Fuck, 6.2A for the hottest one and 6.0 for the '18. This is the only way you'll know; get the gain ratio.

I've done a better writeup here on Reddit - https://www.reddit.com/r/inductionheaters/comments/jbzdmx

Very interesting @TommyDee ! Thank you for sharing this!

I see the orion getting a bit of hate in the last few pages - would anyone be able to elaborate the common complaints? I've had my orion since the initial launch, and I've been using it nearly every day. I absolutely love it it's a great size, the battery life is more than enough for me, and most importantly - I think it heats my bowl perfectly fine - both with ti and ss tips. I can't complain about the heat-up time, the evenness of extraction, or the level of control I can assert (pull right at the click or leave in a little longer). I even love the little case it comes in and use that as my primary DV storage now. I will admit I use this as an "at-home portable" - only occasionally taking it out for a round of golf or hiking. I also had previously built an IH a few years back, which I was able to tune to my own personal liking, so I do have *some* baseline when it comes to induction heaters. FWIW - I started out in 2017 using a torch, so I have plenty of DV experience in general. I would only pull a torch out now for nostalgia though TBH.