Right! S & B gave us the Volcano in both "old school" AND digital, same body - both sold incredibly well for many years and still an industry benchmark.
Crafty/Crafty+ by Storz & Bickel
- Thread starter Roger D
- Start date
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
Actually here is the other thing.
Bluetooth connectivity is DEFINITELY effecting battery life. Whichever way you look at the design, bluetooth was a stupid idea here.
For the abovementioned reasons, also because it violates the design principle of parsimony. Think Occam's Razor. The simplest design is the best.
This device can only have settings changed by an external device. Compatibility is far from effusive. The bluetooth chip in the vape by its very nature must drain extra battery in various states (not just whilst being connected to a phone to be controlled or something).
So what we have is a vaporizer which can only be controlled indirectly, through another electronic device which relies on batteries. The way that it connects to this other device also necessitates extra battery drain on both devices.
I don't want to reach for my phone when I'm changing settings on my vape. I definitely don't want to start draining unnecessary battery charge on my phone and vape just for the sake of this 'technological' feature. Do you guys?
Bluetooth connectivity is DEFINITELY effecting battery life. Whichever way you look at the design, bluetooth was a stupid idea here.
For the abovementioned reasons, also because it violates the design principle of parsimony. Think Occam's Razor. The simplest design is the best.
This device can only have settings changed by an external device. Compatibility is far from effusive. The bluetooth chip in the vape by its very nature must drain extra battery in various states (not just whilst being connected to a phone to be controlled or something).
So what we have is a vaporizer which can only be controlled indirectly, through another electronic device which relies on batteries. The way that it connects to this other device also necessitates extra battery drain on both devices.
I don't want to reach for my phone when I'm changing settings on my vape. I definitely don't want to start draining unnecessary battery charge on my phone and vape just for the sake of this 'technological' feature. Do you guys?
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I understand this my friend, but still - the entire design makes no sense. Even with the much lower power usage of the Bluetooth chip than other components, it is still an extra drain on juice to provide an extra, unnecessarily complex layer to the operation of the device. Also an extra drain on juice in your phone.
OMEiAM
Well-Known Member
I honestly think it comes down to if you like changing to 3+ different temperatures during a session. I personally would be fine with programming my own two temperature settings and sticking with them. You guys are making it seem like you need a smartphone for every usage. For most users I do not think that is the case.
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It can be used as is right out of the box just fine, no apps or Bluetooth needed. Android is ubiquitous, sans Apple IOS. Great for many, not so much for others at the moment. I feel that it is a stretch to assume that S & B don't have the app tech personnel at their disposal to make all the right adjustments in good time. Why drag ass to market when you have a winner ready to go generating good revenue that can facilitate next gen mods? This industry is fast tracking now and developments can either hinder or lead success. In this biz he who hesitates is lost.
lwien
Well-Known Member
I know S&B puts their vapes through various certifications that other manufactures do not, and those do cost money.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I didn't assume, I said it will be necessary. S & B may well have the requisite staff. If so, they would do well to get said staff onto developing apps for other platforms
Also, you guys are getting me wrong. I'm not saying the device is unusable. I am saying the design does not incorporate bluetooth in a way which makes sense (which I agree with @2clicker would involve bluetooth being an option, not the only way to decide between the full range of heat settings). Instead of being an additional cutting edge tech feature as yet not available on much else, this is the ONLY way to get your $400+ vaporizer to change the temp of the 2 out of the box preset heat settings. This is an oversight IMHO.
This is not to mention the inherent battery cost of bluetooth adapters.
By all means use bluetooth, but do not tell me I have to buy an Android phone to fully utilize a $400 vape. For that amount of money, I wanna fully utilize the vape and not have to change to a phone platform which does not suit my needs as they stand right now.
I get it, it functions out of the box without any other device. But do you want a $400 vape whose features can only be fully used if you have the right kind of phone handy and enough battery on both devices?
I am not saying the vape won't work, I'm saying that it is not at all a parsimonious design. I am saying this is a very expensive vape with large parts of the functionality locked off to a decent number of potential users based on what phone they own alone, as well as in situations where you don't have your phone handy with enough juice.
I am not saying you couldn't make this vape work and have it be a decent vape. I am saying that for an extremely expensive vaporizer, the design doesn't seem all that considerate of some pretty important factors to users like me, who would stump up the cash for such a product.
By the way, I am not approaching this by way of just comparing to existing vaporizers. I am approaching this from the point of view that we live in late 2014 now, we have had many generations of vapes before and this one is priced in such a way as to have to be pretty much as good as it gets. As it stands, this is a vaporizer that has a number of obvious unnecessary compromises on battery life, inter-device compatibility and accessibility of functions. These could have been avoided, and IMO should have for a product which should be premium in every way!
I am all for bluetooth control of vapes/enails, but in a way which makes more sense!
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Patience and confidence in S&B I think are warranted and well justified in this case. All that you are finding fault with can easily be remedied on rather short order in the right hands, Allstate notwithstanding:-)I didn't assume, I said it will be necessary. S & B may well have the requisite staff. If so, they would do well to get said staff onto developing apps for other platforms
Also, you guys are getting me wrong. I'm not saying the device is unusable. I am saying the design does not incorporate bluetooth in a way which makes sense (which I agree with @2clicker would involve bluetooth being an option, not the only way to decide between the full range of heat settings). Instead of being an additional cutting edge tech feature as yet not available on much else, this is the ONLY way to get your $400+ vaporizer to change the temp of the 2 out of the box preset heat settings. This is an oversight IMHO.
This is not to mention the inherent battery cost of bluetooth adapters.
By all means use bluetooth, but do not tell me I have to buy an Android phone to fully utilize a $400 vape. For that amount of money, I wanna fully utilize the vape and not have to change to a phone platform which does not suit my needs as they stand right now.
I get it, it functions out of the box without any other device. But do you want a $400 vape whose features can only be fully used if you have the right kind of phone handy and enough battery on both devices?
I am not saying the vape won't work, I'm saying that it is not at all a parsimonious design. I am saying this is a very expensive vape with large parts of the functionality locked off to a decent number of potential users based on what phone they own alone, as well as in situations where you don't have your phone handy with enough juice.
I am not saying you couldn't make this vape work and have it be a decent vape. I am saying that for an extremely expensive vaporizer, the design doesn't seem all that considerate of some pretty important factors to users like me, who would stump up the cash for such a product.
headdoctor
Well-Known Member
I agree completely. People who have never used the unit are now speculating that it's overpriced, breaks easily when dropped, has a flawed battery, is over- and under-designed, and so on. Early reports from real users suggest that it's at least competitive with other portables, and better than most. Time will tell about durability and cleaning. I can't wait to hear more from people who are using this and the Mighty.
2clicker
Observer
oh absolutely. some like to keep it simple and just use one or two temps. i used to be that guy for the most part. until i got an INH and could adjust at will with ease. now i expect that out of every future vape purchase. it sort of a step back w/out it honestly. the app is cool, but what if you pass it to a friend and they ask how to turn it up? this may never happen to many of you, but it def would me.
again dont get me wrong. its not a huge deal. that is the only real issue i see with this vape. well... other than the price, but im sure this device will work very well. im excited to try one. just thought it should be discussed.
i dont think its speculative really. i mean we get its functionality. i dont see what there is to speculate here. and im not discouraging possible buyers by discussing its functionality.
well ive said what ill say about that subject. looking forward to hearing and seeing more on this one.
Gonzo
Slightly Stoopid
Who is telling you that you have to buy the vape or the phone?
Edit*
As far as I can tell the vape works right out of the box. The app seems to be for those who want to adjust the temp to their personal preference.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I agree, in fact, this product could become something I want to use if they can bring in the extra compatibility and if the device supplies enough sessions for my (extremely heavy usage) needs on one charge. The vapor production looks great, I would want to be sure that taste is at least as good as my Solo though. Has anyone got one of these yet? What is taste like compared to other good portables/desktops?
@Gonzo: Work on that reading man
I never said anyone told me I must buy the vape. I did say that I must have an Android phone if I want to fully use this $400 vape (which as I say, is a possibility if this can be resolved!).
darkrom
Great Scott!
@herbivore21 I'm confused, do you hate this vape, or are you mad there is no windows phone app? The reason there is no windows phone app is probably because almost no one has windows phones...
http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/14/6003427/windows-phone-sales-decline-q2-2014-idc
2.5% market share. They decided it wasn't worth paying a developer to cater to the 2%, and then figure out how few of those people want to run their vape. Thats a pretty damn small market, when most of the windows phones are advertised for users who want simple basic devices in their own advertising campaigns. A fraction of a percent of those 2.5% market shares make no sense TBH.
IDK why you think that BT LE (which you need, not just regular old BT) is draining any significant amount of battery. I happen to run BTLE phone with my smart watch paired all day. I've had BT on every day of the year 24/7 and it uses less than 2% battery by the end of every day. Idk maybe windows phone BT uses more battery, but I'd say 2% is insignificant, especially since you'd only need it on while adjusting things, vs all day like I already use it.
As far as the price arguement, its the high end of vapes. Some people find similarities between the extreme q and the volcano and would wonder "why pay more for the same thing". Those people just don't appreciate the differences that others do I guess. I don't view BMW as the same as a honda. I've owned both. Both get you from point A to point B, but the quality and experience are much nicer in the luxury models. Same thing here. I'm not even a S&B fanboy, I sold my volcano, it wasn't for me...prefer the cloud. But there is no denying they make incredible quality products. I'm willing to pay $400 for an incredibly high quality portable, so that is what I'm expecting. A luxury experience compared to my cheaper firefly that can vape nicely, but hopefully the whole package is worth the extra money.
Then there is also the tremendous research that volcano has done in the field of vaporization. Every scientific study I see involving vaporizers just happens to be done using volcanos...
They have contributed so much research back to the field that I don't mind supporting them and getting a high end product at the same time.
http://www.theverge.com/2014/8/14/6003427/windows-phone-sales-decline-q2-2014-idc
2.5% market share. They decided it wasn't worth paying a developer to cater to the 2%, and then figure out how few of those people want to run their vape. Thats a pretty damn small market, when most of the windows phones are advertised for users who want simple basic devices in their own advertising campaigns. A fraction of a percent of those 2.5% market shares make no sense TBH.
IDK why you think that BT LE (which you need, not just regular old BT) is draining any significant amount of battery. I happen to run BTLE phone with my smart watch paired all day. I've had BT on every day of the year 24/7 and it uses less than 2% battery by the end of every day. Idk maybe windows phone BT uses more battery, but I'd say 2% is insignificant, especially since you'd only need it on while adjusting things, vs all day like I already use it.
As far as the price arguement, its the high end of vapes. Some people find similarities between the extreme q and the volcano and would wonder "why pay more for the same thing". Those people just don't appreciate the differences that others do I guess. I don't view BMW as the same as a honda. I've owned both. Both get you from point A to point B, but the quality and experience are much nicer in the luxury models. Same thing here. I'm not even a S&B fanboy, I sold my volcano, it wasn't for me...prefer the cloud. But there is no denying they make incredible quality products. I'm willing to pay $400 for an incredibly high quality portable, so that is what I'm expecting. A luxury experience compared to my cheaper firefly that can vape nicely, but hopefully the whole package is worth the extra money.
Then there is also the tremendous research that volcano has done in the field of vaporization. Every scientific study I see involving vaporizers just happens to be done using volcanos...
They have contributed so much research back to the field that I don't mind supporting them and getting a high end product at the same time.
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As far as the taste quality you're after, the ABV in the review was said to be nicely done. I think this is a good indication that flavor is on par or possibly better. In total this vape seems like a cut above.I agree, in fact, this product could become something I want to use if they can bring in the extra compatibility and if the device supplies enough sessions for my (extremely heavy usage) needs on one charge. The vapor production looks great, I would want to be sure that taste is at least as good as my Solo though. Has anyone got one of these yet? What is taste like compared to other good portables/desktops?
@Gonzo: Work on that reading man
grokit
well-worn member
It sounds like it's not for you. I recommend a different vaporizer!
Also I believe windows phones are no more; microsoft bought nokia
Edit: never mind:
"On Thursday, Microsoft ended its brief fling with Android, dumping the Nokia X smartphone and fleeing back into the arms of its beloved Windows."
www.pcworld.com/article/2455166/microsofts-android-experiment-is-over.html
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Mr. Gweilo 420
Dude
this thread is starting to remind me a lot of the Plenty thread. A lot of misinformation and speculation from members who have not used the product. I was hoping to have mine before the weekend but that is not looking likely at the moment.
herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I am aware of the low Windows Phone market share. Still, I am an enthusiast using a high end windows phone, not an entry level product. I do not want to use Android, or especially iOS. Give me another option if you aren't going to support my phone!
My issue with this product is that there are vapists who simply can't use it fully as it stands right now, when there is no need for this to be the case.
Even without changing the vaporizer at all, someone could make a shitty no frills windows application/driver which is compatible with win 7/8/8.1 and fix this problem! My desktop pc and hybrid tablet/laptop both have bluetooth and windows operating system. Pretty much all of us have PC laptops/tablets with bluetooth which we could use for this purpose.
As Snappo points out, S & B may well address this problem soon enough.
My musings on battery life are really more academic though, I do concede that this device could certainly still have good enough battery life for most or even all users. I definitely was overstating this issue in my first post about this. The proof will be in the pudding though!
I am frustrated with this device because it looks like it might be something good for my as yet unmet portable flower vape purposes, but this makes it out of the question!
darkrom
Great Scott!
Why not look into the mighty? Works without anything, and its not THAT much bigger, and as a trade off double the battery? The reason I went crafty over mighty was the app looks neat, I like the logging usage feature, and I can charge via USB. I have been thinking about buying one of those quickcharge 2.0 chargers for qualcomm chips like my new phone. Supposedly they charge at higher amps than any other chargers, even for non "quickcharge 2.0" devices. I have to check with S&B on that one though, want to make sure there are no negatives to that.
I'm not trying to be a dick, its just the mighty seems to address every complaint other than windows phone app right? I was really considering the mighty. If there was no android app I'd have gone with that.
I do hope either S&B or an enthusiastic programmer make a windows driver/interface for it.
Stay posted and withold judgment is all I can suggest to you. Bashing at a beautifully designed building still under construction with a wrecking ball is not constructive. Only God can please or torment all the people all the time.
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herbivore21
Well-Known Member
I don't mean to be bashing mate, I will of course wait and see what S & B do
@darkrom True, but the mighty really does look too big for my purposes man. Also, I like you want USB charging. Finally, the Mighty costs way more money than I'd spend on a portable vape unless I knew it was absolutely perfect for me. Still, let's see what happens with initial reviews.
I concede that the crafty could be a great vape compared to existing vapes on the market, I have no chip on my shoulder against S & B. I am simply looking for something perfect, especially when we are talking about this kind of outlay of cash
I shall wait and see what happens!
darkrom
Great Scott!
I know what its like to be part of a niche market man I feel ya there.
I understand the mighty being too big, but its not THAT much bigger haha. I really almost went that way for double battery figuring I wouldn't need USB charging if I don't need to charge at all. I think they both look great, but the app sold me.
I hope they release a windows phone app, but I don't honestly believe its likely :/
I've been wrong many a time though and hope I am.
I understand the mighty being too big, but its not THAT much bigger haha. I really almost went that way for double battery figuring I wouldn't need USB charging if I don't need to charge at all. I think they both look great, but the app sold me.
I hope they release a windows phone app, but I don't honestly believe its likely :/
I've been wrong many a time though and hope I am.