AVS m22

[Chicken No Name]

I'm finally at peace with my M22. I received my 3rd cup last month, the revised escc. Tested it and have put it away. Until I can have the CT to me it seems pointless. Within a few dabs (I think the cotton bud cleaning is as responsible) the resistance starts to climb. I'm fed up battling with the clips.
So I use my oos in wattage. I pulse twice and get great results albeit not true tc. But it works, the flavour is good and I use it every day.
I wish it was true tc and I'm hoping one day that will be the norm. Until then I'm pulsing and enjoying. Tis a product almost before it's time, certainly badly released but who can blame em really.
On the surface I'm still a tad frustrated but deep down I do love it.

 

[invertedisdead]

I'm surprised they never switched to a screw terminal connection like so many RDAs use. Always thought my M22 would have benefited from that.

 

[florduh]

@Chicken No Name have you tried the Arctic Fox wattage curves yet? I really think they outperform most e-rigs I've used like the Carta or OG Peak. It is obnoxious though, because once you experience real TC it's hard to accept anything else. Or... you can buy the DTv5 cups and just screw them into the M22 deck. That's how I'm getting temp control right now lol

I'm surprised they never switched to a screw terminal connection like so many RDAs use. Always thought my M22 would have benefited from that.

Well, there are screw connections, but only for metal coils. Or the v5 cups. From what I understand, connecting the ESCC legs to the deck with a screw wouldn't work. As the SiC heats and cools it "moves". The spring clips hold the legs in place, while allowing for a little bit of movement. Unfortunately that eventually leads to the resistance creeping up. But a screwed in leg would pretty quickly snap. I dunno though. I like the idea of energized SiC, but I feel like there's gotta be a more stable way to do this.

I guess AVS's solution to this is the mod. Software can deal with resistance fluctuations while pumping out the correct temperature.

 

[lazylathe]

My resistance never moves.
It gets used daily, q tip after every hit and sometimes a good scrubbing.
I think the new zirconia spacer makes a huge difference.

The resistance thing worried me before I bought it but so far it has not moved. The only thing it has done is gone down in resistance.
It now reads 0.479 ohms from the initial 0.5 ohms.

Cannot wait for my Centaurus mod to arrive as it apparently is the best at TC for the M22 outside of the elusive CT.

 

[invertedisdead]

Well, there are screw connections, but only for metal coils. Or the v5 cups. From what I understand, connecting the ESCC legs to the deck with a screw wouldn't work. As the SiC heats and cools it "moves". The spring clips hold the legs in place, while allowing for a little bit of movement. Unfortunately that eventually leads to the resistance creeping up. But a screwed in leg would pretty quickly snap. I dunno though. I like the idea of energized SiC, but I feel like there's gotta be a more stable way to do this.

I guess AVS's solution to this is the mod. Software can deal with resistance fluctuations while pumping out the correct temperature.

Lol I definitely forgot about the metal coil option, always thought that was kind of an obscure addition but I guess at the time not everyone was quite as sold on "buckets" as some of us were!

The thing I don't quite get is SiC has a thermal expansion much lower than probably any metal leg / terminal post. Seems like you could just add lateral or torsional support to compensate for a redistribution, sort of like skycrapers engineered to survive earthquakes. But I admit I have not really followed the development of this one for quite some time ever since testing the very original kit.

 

[florduh]

It doesn't bring me a ton of joy to say this. But I installed some fresh clips to compare the M22 to my DTv5 setups. While the v5 is an excellent device and outperforms just about every "e-rig" out there... the M22 is definitely a cut above. I was hoping the biggest difference was going to be heat up time. No. The taste is just in a higher tier on the M22. Might simply be the difference between white ceramic and SiC. I also wonder if the more even heating plays a role.

I say this doesn't bring me a ton of joy, because on e-cig mods the v5 is far easier to dial in. And it's way more consistent in terms of holding a solid resistance. Mostly I wanted to tell myself there was no real justification for buying the AVS mod when it becomes available.

Also the M22 is probably a better portable device. While the atty housing can get toasty, it's much cooler than the v5's. Probably because there's less wasted time waiting for it to reach temp.

 

[lazylathe]

It doesn't bring me a ton of joy to say this. But I installed some fresh clips to compare the M22 to my DTv5 setups. While the v5 is an excellent device and outperforms just about every "e-rig" out there... the M22 is definitely a cut above. I was hoping the biggest difference was going to be heat up time. No. The taste is just in a higher tier on the M22. Might simply be the difference between white ceramic and SiC. I also wonder if the more even heating plays a role.

I say this doesn't bring me a ton of joy, because on e-cig mods the v5 is far easier to dial in. And it's way more consistent in terms of holding a solid resistance. Mostly I wanted to tell myself there was no real justification for buying the AVS mod when it becomes available.

Also the M22 is probably a better portable device. While the atty housing can get toasty, it's much cooler than the v5's. Probably because there's less wasted time waiting for it to reach temp.

I have come to the same conclusion.
They are in very different price brackets as well.
I tried my V5 with the Sic insert last night and was not impressed, this was my daily driver for quite a while but it was less than stellar when compared to the M22.

My M22 also performs a lot better on my DNA chip mod than it does on my Pico.

Tonight I want to try out my V4.5 Polished Sic from DT and compare them. I am sure I know the result already but will test anyway.

 

[florduh]

They are in very different price brackets as well.

Very true. And I think the v5 is still an excellent choice. It's better than the Peak Pro for a fraction of the price. But for real hash heads who want an s-tier dabbing experience without cords, the M22 might be worth the price difference over the v5. If/When the mod starts shipping at least.

There's far worse gaps between price/quality in the dabbing world. Is a $400 sapphire e-nail setup really 8 times better than a $50 quartz banger and torch combo?

Tonight I want to try out my V4.5 Polished Sic from DT and compare them. I am sure I know the result already but will test anyway.

I briefly considered this just to see if the difference was simply having SiC. But wouldn't this just lead to an even longer heatup time and more excess heat radiating out? I don't think you could use this waxpen as a waxpen anymore. The DT atty housing gets hot enough as it is without having to transfer heat to another dish.

 

[lazylathe]

@florduh

If I had the choice and knowledge I have now, I would have gone straight for the M22 and be done with it.
Although I still thoroughly enjoy my quartz banger and torch for cold starts and find the flavor to be on par with the M22, possibly slightly better if everything works out perfectly.
The M22 is just so consistent, easy to use and clean.

Everyone you speak to will say sapphire is the way to go but it is out of my price range. Lots also swear by precious gem inserts as well, leading to a ridiculously expensive setup.

I have a full 710coils setup as well that never gets used either due to the M22. I could never get used to it and hated the constant smoke trails...

I will try the P.Sic tonight just for fun but yes it does get hotter and overshoot the set temp by 100+F.
Just want to see what it feels like after a month if not using it.

I also tried the quartz crucible again and found that to be very tasty and easy to use.
Again, the session takes longer and there is a much higher chance of overheating your concentrate.

Both devices have their fair share of fanboys on other platforms but for me they both work well, just one is most definitely better than the other.

The new CT looks amazing and I will be picking one up when they are available!

 

[invertedisdead]

Is a $400 sapphire e-nail setup really 8 times better than a $50 quartz banger and torch combo?

torched cold starts off a sapphire insert is pretty nice! The inserts can be found pretty cheap these days.

I feel like a relic with my vintage V1 SiC dish / M22 lol! These positive posts make me wanna tune it up.

 

[Chicken No Name]

All interesting. Perhaps I should have held off. But.... I got such a good deal offered to me on a v5 I couldn't say no. Its on its way.

But I had assumed my M22 even on wattage would be better.
Shit, it's not far off my d cup on sapphire!

It will be a useful back up as I don't like taking my M22 too far from home. And I want some TC action again.

I was perusing mods today as I only have my wismec Rx gen 3 and it's getting old and wondered when the USA made AVS mod boxes might actually be really really available.
I'm just waiting for this and the sense ih really. Could be a while longer.......

 

[Easywider]

I pull out the quartz with ruby insert for a cold start when I want to do a larger dab, the ruby insert offers the smoothest experience. Makes all the difference when I want to get mediated ultra-fast with the least amount of discomfort

Next up would be the M22 with working TC, smooth and tasty. But for me this is a pipe dream, I've been through well over 40clips. Everything is great at first until I q-tip the dish 5-7times then my resistance turns into a roller coaster. I now run my M22 on AF with Wattage curves. It's great but can't say it's better than proper TC V5 on a DNA mod.

I really wish it was more reliable for me as the convenience, flavor, and smoothness make it my favorite go-to for concentrates. I also like how the SIC cleans up nicer. A white dish and OCD do not mix well together

I run the v5 on a bottomless banger and It's only about 6seconds till I see bubbling goodness. Faster than the ruby cold start, and only a second or 2 slower than the M22

 

[lazylathe]

@Easywider

Do you have the latest version of the ESCC? Apparently this was common on earlier versions.
Mine arrived as 0,5 Ohms and has pretty much stayed there.

I think these devices really shine with a BB! Turns the V5 into a beast and there is no going back.
The white dish also bothers me when I see a small brown spot. A black ceramic would have been perfect!

@florduh

Just tried the V4.5 P.Sic and my throat is not too happy with me...
I love lower temp hits and the Pico is at 36W and 320F and I still cough...

M22 is 45W and 430F and it is smooth like butter!

@invertedisdead

If you feel like drooling, take a look at these bad boys!
So far out of my price range it's ridiculous!
Reminds me when I was a kid and my parents would take us "window shopping" just to see how the better off lived life....

Gem Inserts

Sapphire and ruby gem inserts: the future of concentrate consumption

rubiesareforever.com

 

[Chicken No Name]

@Easywider

Do you have the latest version of the ESCC? Apparently this was common on earlier versions.
Mine arrived as 0,5 Ohms and has pretty much stayed there.

I think these devices really shine with a BB! Turns the V5 into a beast and there is no going back.
The white dish also bothers me when I see a small brown spot. A black ceramic would have been perfect!

@florduh

Just tried the V4.5 P.Sic and my throat is not too happy with me...
I love lower temp hits and the Pico is at 36W and 320F and I still cough...

M22 is 45W and 430F and it is smooth like butter!

@invertedisdead

If you feel like drooling, take a look at these bad boys!
So far out of my price range it's ridiculous!
Reminds me when I was a kid and my parents would take us "window shopping" just to see how the better off lived life....

Gem Inserts

Sapphire and ruby gem inserts: the future of concentrate consumption

rubiesareforever.com

I have the latest escc and experience the same issues as @Easywider . I used it a few times and packed it away to continue with one of my two oos on wattage.

 

[florduh]

I really wish it was more reliable for me as the convenience, flavor, and smoothness make it my favorite go-to for concentrates. I also like how the SIC cleans up nicer. A white dish and OCD do not mix well together

I definitely understand. I probably just got lucky with this clip install. Sometimes I'll get the clips just perfect and not need to mess with them for a month or longer. Other times I'll blow through 3 sets of clips before I get it right. And even then I'll still get resistance rising after only a few dabs. The v5 is far more consistent.

Without the AVS mod, the m22 is very much a hobbyist "beta" device. If you want temp control. Or at least accurate temp control. Wattage curves with Arctic Fox are better than most e-rigs.

I feel like a relic with my vintage V1 SiC dish / M22 lol! These positive posts make me wanna tune it up.

Oh shit is that the rough SiC one? I forgot all about that. I think I still have it somewhere. From what I remember, I used it as my daily driver for a while. It outperformed the Sai buckets. In my opinion, the best AVS SiC was the second iteration. Or the first smooth SiC. It's smaller than the newest version, but I take small dabs. A smaller diameter dish throws out less heat too.

M22 is 45W and 430F and it is smooth like butter!

Yeah, I noticed this too. The M22 is definitely smoother on the throat than the v5.

It will be a useful back up as I don't like taking my M22 too far from home. And I want some TC action again.

Yeah, a big advantage of the v5 is the price of the heaters. I could bust one and I'm only out a few bucks. Break a M22 and I just lost like a hundie.

 

[Easywider]

@lazylathe
Yeah, I have the V2. I weigh in @ 0.48 like clockwork each time I install a new set of clips. After my first q-tip, it jumps up to the low .6xx's, this is what I call my usable range because it will stay in this range for another 3-4 q-tip sessions then jump to the high .7xx's or low .8xx's. At this point, I can wiggle the dish around and watch it read from low .6's to high .9's. I found if I lift the dish up off the Zirc base about 1-1.5mm then drop one leg post down about 1-0.5mm this will put some lateral pressure on the springs and give me a good reading again like high .5xx's or low .6xx's

I used it like this for over 2months (lol that's how much I like it ) but it's super tedious having to play the wibble-wobble dish game to get a good reading before each use. This could all boil down to the problem being me but my theory is that one of my post legs is just a hair smaller than it should be. So it works so good with a fresh install but loses precious contact as soon as the springs are stretched a bit from q-tipping. It would also make sense why the lateral pressure seems to solve(ish) the issue. I dunno

@florduh
A month sounds awesome I can say I'm super happy to have tried the wattage curves. Requires a bit more technique but reliability is back in my hands MUhahaha. Looking forward to seeing the CT in stock to take this unit to the next level!

 

[invertedisdead]

Oh shit is that the rough SiC one? I forgot all about that. I think I still have it somewhere. From what I remember, I used it as my daily driver for a while. It outperformed the Sai buckets. In my opinion, the best AVS SiC was the second iteration. Or the first smooth SiC. It's smaller than the newest version, but I take small dabs. A smaller diameter dish throws out less heat too.

Yeah it’s the very first rough dish; it’s probably the least desirable one cause the roughness grabs onto Qtip fibers and if you fiddle with it too much you get more resistance creep. Still I think if the whole thing was dialed in it should be a pretty compelling experience. A friend has a Peak Pro and it’s pretty cool for a “set it and forget it” Ronco Showtime Rotisserie type of sesh

 

[Oil420FL]

I canceled my CT order. I didn’t have faith that it will be running fine years later (like my S&B Mighty herb vape). So it’s not just more $ in the short term when you have to repair or replace the CT.
My V5 is frustrating because I can’t get it dialed in. Arctic Fox is not really user friendly for a Newbie. So I’m coughing a lot and wasting wax. Easier to just go back to my Dr. Dabber Switch.

 

[3illmesmart]

I would like to commend AVS. If I would have found this thread before ordering, I would not likely have 1.
I ordered 02/04, shipped 02/05, in my hands and lineup 02/16, and I'm in Canada. Great service Brent, and what a great product.
I have been working my way through what is going to work for me, so I didn't do the Whole outfit, just Molecule22 RDA w/ ESCC™ (Wattage Only), M22 Enail Extension Cable, M22 Bottomless Glass Banger and spares. I didn't clue in that the carb tether was separate and didn't add 1, but 1 unanswer email, and it was in the box. I connected to a Smok Rigel and I find 1 cycle gets it to temp at 32 watts, the next cycle I hold for about 8 seconds, then cycle off 5 secs and on 5 secs to maintain temp. I checked with my temp gun and the temp was fairly steady. I have bigger mods lined up, so programming is in my future.
I love that I can load a dab, have a puff and go back to it later and it is still good, didn't bake/burn and when I'm done the carbide bowl just wipes clean.
As a Tool an d Die maker/Machinist, I have been fascinated with Carbide as I learned about it, so I have a Sic Quest coming also, so I hope to add my reviews.

 

[Chicken No Name]

@Chicken No Name . Or... you can buy the DTv5 cups and just screw them into the M22 deck. That's how I'm getting temp control right now lol

Have attached my spare v5 cup into M22. Very good compromise. Slower than the M22 to heat but good taste and stealth factor restored.
Thanks for the suggestion. Now need to source some spare heaters in UK/EU. All sold out!

 

[Pasoa2020]

@lazylathe
Yeah, I have the V2. I weigh in @ 0.48 like clockwork each time I install a new set of clips. After my first q-tip, it jumps up to the low .6xx's, this is what I call my usable range because it will stay in this range for another 3-4 q-tip sessions then jump to the high .7xx's or low .8xx's. At this point, I can wiggle the dish around and watch it read from low .6's to high .9's. I found if I lift the dish up off the Zirc base about 1-1.5mm then drop one leg post down about 1-0.5mm this will put some lateral pressure on the springs and give me a good reading again like high .5xx's or low .6xx's

I used it like this for over 2months (lol that's how much I like it ) but it's super tedious having to play the wibble-wobble dish game to get a good reading before each use. This could all boil down to the problem being me but my theory is that one of my post legs is just a hair smaller than it should be. So it works so good with a fresh install but loses precious contact as soon as the springs are stretched a bit from q-tipping. It would also make sense why the lateral pressure seems to solve(ish) the issue. I dunno

@florduh
A month sounds awesome I can say I'm super happy to have tried the wattage curves. Requires a bit more technique but reliability is back in my hands MUhahaha. Looking forward to seeing the CT in stock to take this unit to the next level!

This is definitely unusual behavior. I have 4 esccs and nine of the do tbis.

I change clips maybe once every 2-3 months. And that’s usually because I’m only slightly above the marked resistance

 

[Easywider]

This is definitely unusual behavior. I have 4 esccs and nine of the do tbis.

I change clips maybe once every 2-3 months. And that’s usually because I’m only slightly above the marked resistance

There’s enough reports of this exact same behavior that I would not say it’s unusual.

It’s certainly unfortunate, but I was very aware of these issues before I made my purchase so I knew what I was getting into. I was hoping the reports were more from user error and not out of spec hardware. But it is what it is.

Awesome you have four working ones It’s great to hear reports like this as I hope to have a properly working one myself one day.

 

[Chicken No Name]

I agree with @Easywider
For example, I was inspired to set up my M22 based on your comments @Pasoa2020 this weekend.
New clips went in lovely. New escc cup went in lovely. Resistance spot on. Here we go I thought. Lovely hit. Used q tip and resistance changed. On cool down deleted the coil, reset and back to normal. This continued for a few hits. Then resistance permanently up. Removed ceramic plate and resistance perfect but slight touch and it changes.
Back to the v5 cup.

So annoying.....

 

[maxymods]

I mainly ran my m22 in wattage mode until recently. Decided to whip out my .4 res and try TC on my Rim C. So far I’ve had pretty good luck and it’s been about a week and a half!

The first time I tried to set it up on RIM c I didn’t have as much luck, so not sure what changed. At this point though I’ve kinda said fuck it, and as long as I’m getting a good hit.

I’ve had some other weird experiences with my m22, one time in the cold my resistance was reading about .2 lower than at room temp, and it was producing massive hits like that. Not sure why, and it caused no damage to the ESCC, but found it interesting.

 

[florduh]

I've been running the M22 in wattage with the Arctic Fox curves. Gotta say, this thing even without proper temp control outperforms every e-rig I've tried. With wattage curves, it outperforms the DTv5 with temp control.

To me, this is a crucible that sort of performs like a 510 cartridge. Vapor production starts within 2-3 seconds. And even with just the AF curves, it gives me what I've always wanted in a cart: (sort of) temp control.

Obviously, the whole experience is better when you get actual temp control working. But without their mod, that requires me to change the spring clips every 2 weeks. I haven't changed the clips in 2 months and it's still pumping out tasty vapor.

I wanted to buy new clips soon, so I checked out the AVS site. They're selling wattage only M22's for $40. That's a fantastic value. Especially if you already have an Arctic Fox compatible mod. Then you'll have the best performing "e-rig" for less than a single Puffco Peak atty.