Anvil by Vestratto

[Vestratto]

@venturig Well here's to hoping for a resolution between you two. In the meantime, will these preorder unit be shipping out in January? I know that's when they'll arrive but when do you think you'll be able to send them out?

Shipments begin Tuesday. Tomorrow we are sanitizing the list to be certain everyone has had the discount applied, proper shipping information etc. Its to bad that the launch was conflated with Christmas because every delivery service is going nuts right now.

 

[sternica]

If you’re unconcerned about the business ethics of those you choose to work with, that’s fine (and unsurprising). You don’t get to ask that of your customers, though. The raw product is only one component of a purchase.

Exactly what I was thinking. Go eff yourself John for telling me how to choose who I spend my money with! No anvil for me that’s for sure!

Modnote: Telling members to "eff themselves" is against our Be Nice rule. Please be considerate.

 

[Vestratto]

first I want to say thank you for coming here to address our concerns, it shows you have respect for the community. however from what you said

this sounds like you did have a agreement with planet haze for the launch which you backed out of. I don't envy you being a new manufacturer in a competitive industry and I know nothing of your bottom line but I don't agree with the way things were handled. its your business and obviously you are free to run it as you see fit and business sometimes means making tough choices but it seem you were all to happy to let planet haze spearhead the launch and build buzz for you but when the time came to honour your arrangement you went in a different direction leaving them in the cold.

Robert posted his launch vision on FC entirely independent of Vestratto and I know you find that hard to believe, but I run machinery, not message boards. That is the dealer's job. The Vestratto instagram showed an Anvil on the launch pad over a week ago. A very clear visual metaphor that was intended to communicate clearly where we were in the process. Robert had five days to ponder his response to my intention to launch first and his ultimate decision was to burn down the house.

Exactly what I was thinking. Go eff yourself John for telling me how to choose who I spend my money with! No anvil for me that’s for sure!

Hey Doron Are you going to share with the Board the DMs you sent me on Insta with your "pretty please" begging, that would not only have undercut the launch but every dealer, and everyone here who has payed the launch price, including Planet Haze? Step down off your high horse you have nothing of value to contribute here.

 

[Bad Dog]

please fellow members there is no need for personal attacks on John, we are better than that. it sounds like there was not clear communication between you and planet haze about expectations and reality. if this were my company I would have been more involved in the launch rather than completely handing the reins over to someone else and giving them carp blanch it is your business after all. I have a hard time believing planet haze kept the launch list secret from you, seems like a gross overstep if you had intended to launch ahead of retailers from the beginning and had been clear on that. all aspects of the business should be a concern to the owner if they have a vision that they do not want to stray from. all that said I'm no ones judge and jury especially when I'm not personally involved. I respect you for coming here to say your side

 

[PlanetHaze]

Vestratto is 100% owned by John Mumford. Planet Haze has no financial interest in Vestratto or the Anvil Technology. Planet Haze tested early portable vapes made by Vestratto but did not at any time contribute financially to the Anvil technology specification or development. Planet Haze has not been involved in any testing since before the COVID outbreak began two years ago. Planet Haze has NEVER ordered any Anvil vaporizers from Vestratto and has no right to claim ownership of the technology or influence in Vestratto's business operation. There is a lot of history here but the bottom line is that, as is industry custom, Vestratto launched its proprietary Anvil product first. Subsequently offering products for sale to Dealers including Planet Haze. Clearly Planet Haze felt they had a more significant interest in Anvil because of the many year personal friendship between John and Robert. This was completely unrealistic given zero investment or assumption of any risk on Planet Haze' part. Planet Haze began hosting this FC thread to introduce the Anvil product and as a manufacturer we welcomed that exposure. The technical content of every post was provided to Planet Haze by Vestratto and reposted by Planet Haze with their own spin. Vestratto had no intention that Planet Haze be perceived as an owner of Anvil or to mislead the FC community as to who the real owner of Anvil is.

First who is Venturig? Why doesn't John address questions people have including us? This sounds like a well written legal speak. We have never claimed ownership of any part of Vestratto, which like we said, only came into existence several months ago. We might not have contributed cash money, but 15 years of vaporizer and vape industry experience, shipping knowledge, as well as hundreds of hours of involvement in helping to design and come up with ideas based on this background knowledge counts as a contribution to the creation of this product. Every time John needed something like a DynaVap to examine its build , o-rings, screens, heaters, torches, and other vapes were mostly provided for free to John from us.

PlanetHaze was involved in testing right up until the design was finalized a few months ago. We were the only ones with an Ispire Wand, so without us that could have never been tested with the Anvil, so we definitely were involved in testing, including trips to tester's houses.

The bottom line is that Vestratto (John) allowed us to conduct business with our original agreement that we would be the vendor that was doing the release. As commented, Vestratto provided the information for us to post and read all the comments and allowed us to continue promoting the Anvil under our original agreement and that was how we conducted ourselves. If John had wanted to change how he was going to launch his product he could have at ANY time during our daily conversations made that knowledge known to us.

We didn't post on here publicly to post dirty laundry. Once we saw that John had launched his own site and started selling the Anvil after all this time of allowing us to think that we would be the ones launching the preorders, we had over 600 people signed up on our website to be notified when they became available for purchase. Of course, since John just went and sold them behind our back, all the while concealing what he was doing, none of our registered customers received an email that the Anvils could be purchased. We came here to let everyone know the reason why they didn't receive an email from PlanetHaze about the launch. If you read back in this thread you will see there was a lot of confusion and upset customers that missed out from not receiving an email notification from us.

We apologize for this confusion and regret that Planet Haze has chosen to make a delay of two days in their ability to sell Anvil a Public Dispute on FC. Ask yourself one pertinent question. If Planet Haze had even one nickel of risk in the Anvil Project why did they choose to burn the house down publicly?

Before posting here, yesterday, we attempted to text and call John several times to ask why he had done what he had done. We even waited until the next afternoon for him to respond. Normally he would respond within minutes to hours, but this time, no response. We had no choice but to come here to explain why customers registered on our site didn't receive a notification. This has nothing to do with any dollars invested into the development of the Anvil. We take fault at not having anything in writing and trusting someone who we believed was more than just a business associate. Vestratto burned the bridges, not us. Again, sorry to our customers and supporters for the confusion and upset, that was not and never has been our intentions.

 

[staircase slight of hand]

The Vestratto instagram showed an Anvil on the launch pad over a week ago. A very clear visual metaphor that was intended to communicate clearly where we were in the process.

So your corporate communication is being done via lulzy photoshop and you’re blaming us for misunderstanding???? Oh my lord, dude.
Starting to feel like I really dodged a bullet here.

 

[DennisFlonasal]

So your corporate communication is being done via lulzy photoshop and you’re blaming us for misunderstanding???? Oh my lord, dude.
Starting to feel like I really dodged a bullet here.

the direct contradiction to them saying they 'just build and don't know what happens on any social media'

what i am coming away with, is that technically no contract was breached so it's supposed to just be whatever? what an odd and sketchy way to do business

wondering if you are willing to offer refunds?

i am trying to use a nice tone and language

 

[Gdash]

Holy shit whoever is responding for Vestratto is doing a horrible job. I will say that I have only bought from PH once before and the experience was great. They are the type to send you a bag of Doritos with your order even though it's completely unnecessary but, shows the type of retailer they are.

I will say this, I won't be purchasing another device directly from the manufacturer ever. If PH decides to carry it then I will consider it. I will also consider a purchase from Vgoodiez as he's in the same state as me and I consider him local and have always had nothing but great experiences with him.

 

[Vestratto]

So your corporate communication is being done via lulzy photoshop and you’re blaming us for misunderstanding???? Oh my lord, dude.

the direct contradiction to them saying they 'just build and don't know what happens on any social media'

what i am coming away with, is that technically no contract was breached so it's supposed to just be whatever? what an odd and sketchy way to do business

wondering if you are willing to offer refunds?

i am trying to use a nice tone and language

The Vestratto Instagram is the only Social Media site we supported - for all of I think five weeks. Like I have said I should not have delegated the responsibility for Vestratto communication here on FC and regret that decision. If you want a refund of course we are. The last thing any company wants is an unhappy customer.

 

[PlanetHaze]

On Thursday night I spoke to Planet Haze (Robert) on the phone for an hour and told him - not negotiated with him - that Vestratto was going to launch Anvil ahead of dealers. His being angry and throwing me under the bus does not mean I have poor business acumen.

If Robert wanted to be forthright about the existence of a Private email list why not request a special code for members of FC so as to get credit applied for that promotional effort. I likely would have had to adjust margins because these early units are all being sold at a loss against invested capital.

Okay, Now it's popcorn time lol

Yes, we did speak, but it was about when you were ready for us to start pre-orders. Please stop lying! Not once did you ever say "that Vestratto was going to launch Anvil ahead of dealers." In fact, you obviously concealed it from us on purpose!

Yes, it is a private list, we don't sell or hand over peoples emails ever! We kept you updated about the number on the list, but don't act like you have no knowledge of anything because it is all very transparent. John, you set the pricing and told us to put it at 199.99 USD and you didn't want us to issue codes, yet instead you launch it yourself at an inflated cost and now need to refund everyone "who contacts you" 50.00.

 

[marduk]

The Vestratto Instagram is the only Social Media site we supported - for all of I think five weeks. Like I have said I should not have delegated the responsibility for Vestratto communication here on FC and regret that decision. If you want a refund of course we are. The last thing any company wants is an unhappy customer.

Assuming the current kerfuffle eventually dies down, going forward will Vestratto have a presence here on FC to answer our questions directly?

 

[Gdash]

I think I'm done following this thread for now. My takeaway is that PH feels like they were stabbed in the back and regardless of what the actual truth is, that's never a good thing. Hopefully this can be resolved.

 

[Vestratto]

Holy shit whoever is responding for Vestratto is doing a horrible job. I will say that I have only bought from PH once before and the experience was great. They are the type to send you a bag of Doritos with your order even though it's completely unnecessary but, shows the type of retailer they are.

I will say this, I won't be purchasing another device directly from the manufacturer ever. If PH decides to carry it then I will consider it. I will also consider a purchase from Vgoodiez as he's in the same state as me and I consider him local and have always had nothing but great experiences with him.

Okay, Now it's popcorn time lol

Yes, we did speak, but it was about when you were ready for us to start pre-orders. Please stop lying! Not once did you ever say "that Vestratto was going to launch Anvil ahead of dealers." In fact, you obviously concealed it from us on purpose!

Yes, it is a private list, we don't sell or hand over peoples emails ever! We kept you updated about the number on the list, but don't act like you have no knowledge of anything because it is all very transparent. John, you set the pricing and told us to put it at 199.99 USD and you didn't want us to issue codes, yet instead you launch it yourself at an inflated cost and now need to refund everyone "who contacts you" 50.00.

On Thursday night when I spoke to you on the phone for almost an hour I told you point blank that I was going to clear the pre-orders - which I believed was thirty.

You NEVER revealed you had a private email list with over 600 names because if you did I wouldn't have made a pissant 30 units for you I would have tooled up for 300. What's that about?

I never asked you for a list but did ask you often "how many do you think we can sell"? Radio frickin silence. Now - for the first time you declare it was 600. You didn't think that telling me that the potential demand was 600 would be relevant to me ordering supplies etc. to be able to meet the demand? Do you think you just go into an orchard and pick Anvils off trees? You never thought that placing an order on Vestratto wouldn't have been a smart idea? You are the ONLY dealer that did not provide me an order. You kept me so in the dark and yet claim here to be the beacon of light and truth.

Enjoy your popcorn.

 

[Hagbard]

The last thing any company wants is an unhappy customer.

tbh and just my 5 cents: this entitlement really went down the drain.

and what a person as a company should not want is to disappoint/cheat/whatever good people and their so-called buisness friends/partners/whatever to avoid a mess like this.

but as i said that's my personal opinion and it should not matter to anyone. but me. and my purchase decision.

 

[sternica]

Hey Doron Are you going to share with the Board the DMs you sent me on Insta with your "pretty please" begging, that would not only have undercut the launch but every dealer, and everyone here who has payed the launch price, including Planet Haze? Step down off your high horse you have nothing of value to contribute here.

Mate, that was before I found out what a douchebag you are. I would not touch your product even if you hand delivered it to me for free. You have zero morals and a lot to learn young man. I’ll step off my high horse and bid you farewell. For the record, I asked for the LAUNCHDAY code, nothing else. You were the one that sent me an email to say you wanted to sell me a damaged unit for less! You really are a scumbag.

 

[Vestratto]

Mate, that was before I found out what a douchebag you are. I would not touch your product even if you hand delivered it to me for free. You have zero morals and a lot to learn young man. I’ll step off my high horse and bid you farewell. For the record, I asked for the LAUNCHDAY code, nothing else. You were the one that sent me an email to say you wanted to sell me a damaged unit for less! You really are a scumbag.

I'm the douchebag?? You're the one telling tall tales and trying to get the slip on the rest of the community.

 

[hoyo77]

All I can say is this shit is above my pay grade and my name is Lenny and I ain’t in it! It is unfortunate that the FC community is witnessing this....hopefully the relationship can be repaired if not oh well life goes on. I mainly bought this device because of my IG conversations with @Whiff and his excitement at explaining every nuance about the vape. hopefully this all gets worked out. It’s more important things to worry about. Covid-19 and new variant, bills, middle of cuffing seaso, weed man tripping etc etc etc

 

[Bad Dog]

I told you point blank that I was going to clear the pre-orders - which I believed was thirty.

You NEVER revealed you had a private email list with over 600 names

why would you tell him you were going to clear pre-orders if he had kept the list from you ?? and why would you assume arbitrarily it was 30??

 

[KeroZen]

...and I must say, I'm having quality time!

 

[Vestratto]

I'm the douchebag?? You're the one telling tall tales and trying to get the slip on the rest of the community.

I went back and checked the correspondence. When you wrote "super secret discount code" did you actually mean to write LAUNCHDAY? Just curious because you've called me a liar and a scumbag but you seem incapable of telling the truth here on FC. I have discussed with the dealer network at large that periodically we build units that have cosmetic imperfections and we should sell them to folks with circumstances at a good discount rather than scrap them because they are still perfectly functional. I offered that service to you and you sent me a private email to enrol on the list. Now you are throwing it back in my face. ok

why would you tell him you were going to clear pre-orders if he had kept the list from you ?? and why would you assume arbitrarily it was 30??

I didn't assume thirty. In the absence of any guidance I decided thirty. Like I said if I had known their were 600 names on the PH list I would have said 300. There is NOTHING more stressful - even more stressful than being dragged through the coals here, than not being able to meet demand and losing sales to competitors because you can't deliver.

...and I must say, I'm having quality time!

Imagine how I'm feeling. 30 launch units X $199 * 30% dealer discount = $1,791. Thats what this is about. Against the $180K in sunk costs over 3 1/2 years in rent, machines, subcontractors and my time billed at ZERO.

 

[Ralph]

I say let the product speak for itself. I ordered one with the discount code and received notification right away. Not knowing or caring who is who or who gets credit. I am hoping it's as good as the videos I've seen and the support from them equally as good. I say move the dispute away from the forums and let those that get one post their opinions, videos, reviews, etc.. here for others to decide. In my opinion, it looks like an incredibly good value that will last forever and if it's as good as looks there will be plenty of dealers and customers that want to get their hands on one. The back and forth is just taking sides at this point and is their word against the vendors word so we will really never no the truth, and frankly really don't care. Unless there are recorded conversations or contracts written and signed by both parties, the back and forth is irrelevant in my opinion.

 

[ellis d. tripp]

I for one am happy to have scored an anvil, can’t wait to actually have it in hand. It sucks that PH feels so betrayed, and i do understand their stance, but at the same time i think it makes sense for the creator to make the best buisness choices in order to recoup their investment cost. this was a small order, approximately 100 units, and of course as production ramps up I’m sure there will be plenty of stock for everyone, as well as lots of consumers ready to place their orders. I really am happy to support the creator, and think it wise of him to start up his own site in order to maximize his own profits. Sounds like good business acumen to me. Good luck John, and if the product is as good as it appears…. It’ll sell its self! Peace.

 

[Vestratto]

tbh and just my 5 cents: this entitlement really went down the drain.

and what a person as a company should not want is to disappoint/cheat/whatever good people and their so-called buisness friends/partners/whatever to avoid a mess like this.

but as i said that's my personal opinion and it should not matter to anyone. but me. and my purchase decision.

I hope at some point when this is sorted out, because it will get sorted out eventually, you will give the Anvil a try. Neither Robert or myself will be in the room with you when that happens and you can decide for yourself.

 

[Vestratto]

please fellow members there is no need for personal attacks on John, we are better than that. it sounds like there was not clear communication between you and planet haze about expectations and reality. if this were my company I would have been more involved in the launch rather than completely handing the reins over to someone else and giving them carp blanch it is your business after all. I have a hard time believing planet haze kept the launch list secret from you, seems like a gross overstep if you had intended to launch ahead of retailers from the beginning and had been clear on that. all aspects of the business should be a concern to the owner if they have a vision that they do not want to stray from. all that said I'm no ones judge and jury especially when I'm not personally involved. I respect you for coming here to say your side

Its clear I've cocked up here but see it through my bias. Robert sees it through his. The truth is likely someplace in the middle.

 

[staircase slight of hand]

I'm the douchebag?? You're the one telling tall tales and trying to get the slip on the rest of the community.

“Get the slip on the community”? Wtf, dude. If this is how you conduct your public business, I can’t even imagine what’s going on behind the scenes. Even for this industry, this is some grossly unprofessional shit.