Anvil by Vestratto

[ruku]

I don't know... this is likely an unpopular opinion since people seem to be calling for Vestratto John to respond here, but I kind of feel like all this dirty laundry shouldn't be aired in this thread. Wouldn't it be better for PH and Vestratto John to hash out their differences directly with each other instead of posting in public and asking us to take sides?

Vestratto asked him to make it public. That's the point.

 

[Vapor-catzG]

Must have his reasons ,like everything ,,give it time it will be fine one way or an other the anvils safe
johns the creator,his wife was sick …….correct.
let it pan out
G

 

[sternica]

I have just unfollowed vestratto and have blacklisted this item. People that shaft people can get effed!

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

Well i could care less for company drama,but for sure it aint a cool move.
In this world if you dont put shit into writing ,you can rarely expect people to keep their word,corporate shit 101. I have learned also the hard way that words aint mean shit when financial interest is at hand.
Still excited about the technology,sry if that is not in line with some people's moral,lol.

 

[Bad Dog]

Well i could care less for company drama. In this world if you dont put shit into writing ,you can rarely expect people to keep their word,corporate shit 101. I have learned also the hard way that words aint mean shit when financial interest is at hand.
Still exited about the technology,sry if that is not in line with some people's moral,lol.

I own a tinymight and know how the maker ghosted on a bunch of RMA's when he was doing the Apollo or whatever and it didn't stop me from buying my tinymight. but this is different to me, using a trusted long standing member of the community to build interest and goodwill for a products launch only to shaft them last minute doesn't sit well with me, I don't like it when people are used and treated like garbage and disposable, been treated that way often enough for that kind of thing to leave a bad taste in my mouth. call it a moral stand if you want but its just my line in the sand I guess??? I can afford to be choosey, have plenty of vapes that totally shred my face off. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from buying and did not call for a boycott or for people to cancel their orders. this drama doesn't make this vape or Technology any less intriguing, I just don't like the way they do business

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I own a tinymight and know how the maker ghosted on a bunch of RMA's when he was doing the Apollo or whatever and it didn't stop me from buying my tinymight. but this is different to me, using a trusted long standing member of the community to build interest and goodwill for a products launch only to shaft them last minute doesn't sit well with me, I don't like it when people are used and treated like garbage and disposable, been treated that way often enough for that kind of thing to leave a bad taste in my mouth. call it a moral stand if you want but its just my line in the sand I guess??? I can afford to be choosey, have plenty of vapes that totally shred my face off. I'm not trying to dissuade anyone from buying and did not call for a boycott or for people to cancel their orders. this drama doesn't make this vape or Technology any less intriguing, I just don't like the way they do business

I havent bought a new vape in years due to financial reasons ,good thing i learned to make my own.. I am here to see the technology and ideas unfold.
Also mentioned that i dont approve of the actions,but this misdeed can turn into valuable lesson for everyone reading this,put stuff into writing . I do feel for PH as i have been in their position,but after a lot of bitter thoughts ,i came out to realize that i myself am to blame for trusting people to keep their word.
I can give also example with that German guy that sells temp controlled IHs ,that seemed to be cutting edge concepts at the time,but he was a really bad businessmen and had troubles in communication . I would never buy an IH from that guy,but i am grateful for his contribution to the development of the technology .
As for the TM guy,i can say from experience that he is a stand up dude , who also has a great contribution to the vaping scene . He had a rough end/start,but he has come through for us and i believe at this point customer support is on a very decent level.

 

[Bad Dog]

I also believe in giving people second chances and am willing to hear their side of the story but I think a public statement on the forum acknowledging planet haze's contribution to the anvil and the service they did them helping to launch would be a step in the right direction.

 

[n3vermindMe]

Must have his reasons ,like everything ,,give it time it will be fine one way or an other the anvils safe
johns the creator,his wife was sick …….correct.
let it pan out
G

Exactly.
Iam also one of the preorderers and iam very sorry to hear about @PlanetHaze story.
But let us calm down people and see how this unfolds.

 

[Hagbard]

for me its simple: if somebody acts like this with long-term buisness partners i am pretty sceptic how will he act with customer support, keeping their word with preorders and so on. time will tell. but i wish everyone a flawless transaction. i will wait for any retailer where its in stock.

 

[Fogoff]

wow thats a greedy move from Vestratto, I feel for the distributor (PH), and I understand their relationship is done. Unfortunately it tells a lot about this brand, devil is in the details...

 

[ConvectCode1]

@invertedisdead has it exactly correct. From the start we had a gentleman's agreement with John (Vestratto) and that was PlanetHaze would get first sales for an amount of time as our compensation for our part in conceiving and the 3 years spent helping to design the Anvil. There is a lot more to it than that and maybe one day we will post everything. Vestratto let us put up the pre-order listing letting us take the brunt of customer inquires and leading us to believe our agreement was still valid since we had nothing in writing.

Since helping to launch the Anvil right here on FC, we could see what John was up to after we were being warned. We trusted John more than the warnings so we continued to post info provided by Vestratto. Guess we got duped really good. We only ever posted what we knew as fact or what Vestratto informed us.

Letting us carry on under the belief that we would be first to have stock by using omission and then without notice to us, John just went behind our backs and sold them direct totally cutting us out of the picture. Pretty low blow after working together for 3 years. We will take the high road and won't stoop to that level so you can put the popcorn away lol.

Our apologies to all our supporters who stood-up for us here and signed up on our website expecting us to have first stock. The knife wound in our back from Vestratto still hurts.



@ConvectCode1 Please don't attack @Jill NYC , they were just re-posting what we had posted. John told us about you, glad you know John so well (1 week via email) that you can vouch for his character.

I only registered on the Vestratto website after watching live streams and following various other websites and threads elsewhere. I’ve never talked to John other than the blast emails from Vestratto. I don’t know the man at all. I just thought it was weird that a website was implying that they were almost in charge of selling the Anvii when based on all the hearsay I got from other sites didn’t say that at all. I don’t “know” nor have known John for a week, you have me money when with someone else. Sorry

 

[Gdash]

I only registered on the Vestratto website after watching live streams and following various other websites and threads elsewhere. I’ve never talked to John other than the blast emails from Vestratto. I don’t know the man at all. I just thought it was weird that a website was implying that they were almost in charge of selling the Anvii when based on all the hearsay I got from other sites didn’t say that at all. I don’t “know” nor have known John for a week, you have me money when with someone else. Sorry

Damn right I was. PH LOL!!!!

He probably got you confused with someone else based on your previous replies. You have no additional knowledge than the rest of us yet, when someone said that you were right based on a guess you posted the second quote almost as if to say told you so and in a mocking way to PH. Your posts certainly implied some sort of insider knowledge.

 

[ConvectCode1]

He probably got you confused with someone else based on your previous replies. You have no additional knowledge than the rest of us yet, when someone said that you were right based on a guess you posted the second quote almost as if to say told you so and in a mocking way to PH. Your posts certainly implied some sort of insider

I didn’t have any inside info and don’t know Vestratto or John. The more I’m reading these posts the more I understand what happened. I agree that sucks for PH if they did all that work on developing the product. I saw Vestratto had a site in development and immediately assumed it would be live at the time of the drop, assuming PH would be the first other site to carry it. I didn’t know PH had so much involvement with the development. Yes I can see how this isn’t right for PH: not cool to get shafted. But I don’t “know” the creator I just know the story about the devices inception like most everybody does by now. Maybe PH will get a better kit or additional parts and or extras if they still decide to be a reseller for Vestratto. Maybe have PH have an exclusive package-deal that includes more than what Vestratto just released to smoother things over? I agree thirty I don’t think making people upset on FC is a not good start to a brand. And, I clearly do not know how to post properly on here and will not post in the wrong manor again which makes it appear as if I’m quoting and or responding to people directly. I’m a moron.

 

[VGOODIEZ]

Appreciate your kind words. I have not spoken to John about the launch strategy for him and Planet Haze. We only discussed me coming in at some point assuming I gave it my personal approval. I made it a point to tell him I understood others were already involved and respected the fact I'd have to wait my turn. I spent a few hours in a video chat with him and I got the sense of who he was and what his relationship with Planet Haze was. I can't speak for either of them but I can't imagine the decision to lauch from the manufacturer site was not discussed and understood. I have offered money to John several times now and he's more worried about taking my money and not having the capability to quickly deliver so he's not trying to take advantage of us retailers.

Well now don't I feel like an idiot. This doesn't sit well with me and I'm sorry @PlanetHaze. I have reached out to John for an explanation but it's difficult to think of one that would help me understand what happened here. What an unfortunate turn of events here, which seems to be the case for everyone involved.

 

[ConvectCode1]

Well now don't I feel like an idiot. This doesn't sit well with me and I'm sorry @PlanetHaze. I have reached out to John for an explanation but it's difficult to think of one that would help me understand what happened here. What an unfortunate turn of events here, which seems to be the case for everyone involved.

Now I feel as though my order is tainted. I had no idea that there had been “gentlemen’s agreements” or that PH had such a big part in the development of the product. I thought they were just a distributor. I first heard about the Anvil before the first posting on this thread at the end of October. People in a weekly vaping live stream chat were discussing the Anvil in the beginning of September. It was just vaping enthusiasts who speculated it’s release was a year away. That’s where I first heard about it. Then a couple weeks later I saw a video of ‘Whiff’ white walling a glass piece and that short clip sold me on the product. That, and Whiff did a great job of marketing the Anvil ALL OVER the Vape Space, certainly not just on this site. I had never even heard of PH until about 4 weeks ago when I came across this thread. I knew the product was forthcoming very soon and just assumed it would be for sale @ vestratto.com so I went there and signed up for notifications. Seems to me that would be the best way to ensure you’re in on the first drop. I’d assume an inventor and owner of a company would always want to release their product themselves…then trickle out supply to distributors. Hell, S&B even did that with their Mighty+ this past September. I really feel bad for those who like I’ve said, hung on every word said by a reseller and not the actual company responsible for its inception and production. But I’m not a distributor so I admittedly know nothing about the process of how this type of thing gets released. If I were under the impression I was going to be the first distributor, I guess I’d be upset too. But I think it will all work out in the end. I sure hope this doesn’t discourage PH or VGoodiez from carrying it. Though I guess the demand after the first batch land in consumers hands will dictate that. This industry seems like a very difficult be to operate in both as a distributor and an inventor.

 

[Zuhdj]

All I think we can hope for now is that the vape performs and John somehow makes this up to PH. Also, I agree with Mr. Code1 here. This might be a shitty move on a personal level, but if the anvil is reliable, easy to get, and all that I too hope this little stunt won't discourage Pete, VGEZ, or PH from carrying this thing.

 

[VGOODIEZ]

Now I feel as though my order is tainted. I had no idea that there had been “gentlemen’s agreements” or that PH had such a big part in the development of the product. I thought they were just a distributor. I first heard about the Anvil before the first posting on this thread at the end of October. People in a weekly vaping live stream chat were discussing the Anvil in the beginning of September. It was just vaping enthusiasts who speculated it’s release was a year away. That’s where I first heard about it. Then a couple weeks later I saw a video of ‘Whiff’ white walling a glass piece and that short clip sold me on the product. That, and Whiff did a great job of marketing the Anvil ALL OVER the Vape Space, certainly not just on this site. I had never even heard of PH until about 4 weeks ago when I came across this thread. I knew the product was forthcoming very soon and just assumed it would be for sale @ vestratto.com so I went there and signed up for notifications. Seems to me that would be the best way to ensure you’re in on the first drop. I’d assume an inventor and owner of a company would always want to release their product themselves…then trickle out supply to distributors. Hell, S&B even did that with their Mighty+ this past September. I really feel bad for those who like I’ve said, hung on every word said by a reseller and not the actual company responsible for its inception and production. But I’m not a distributor so I admittedly know nothing about the process of how this type of thing gets released. If I were under the impression I was going to be the first distributor, I guess I’d be upset too. But I think it will all work out in the end. I sure hope this doesn’t discourage PH or VGoodiez from carrying it. Though I guess the demand after the first batch land in consumers hands will dictate that. This industry seems like a very difficult be to operate in both as a distributor and an inventor.

These types of situations matter to me. I have reached out to both John and PH on this. I think we already know how PH understood it but I'm still giving John and opportunity to give me his take. I can't predict the future here yet but like I said, these things matter to me.

 

[gordontreeman]

This might be a shitty move on a personal level, but if the anvil is reliable, easy to get, and all that I too hope this little stunt won't discourage Pete, VGEZ, or PH from carrying this thing.

Its hard to imagine it wouldn't--they just watched a distribution partner get shafted.

Waiting to hear the other side of the story here but its hard for me to imagine wanting to support Vestratto after this. I already think this industry is pretty oily with all the under-the-table influencer agreements and such, so I guess I appreciate that they were up front about being dishonest assholes if this all shakes out as PH is claiming. Not everyone needs every purchasing decision to be a moral stand and that is fine, I'm just of the opinion that this kind of behavior shouldn't be rewarded. I want the companies that take care of themselves, their customers, and their partners to be the ones that rise to the top, not the ones who embody cold-blooded capitalism.

 

[VGOODIEZ]

I already received a response from John. I don't want to speak for him. I encouraged him to create a company account and share his perspective on things.

 

[FlyingLow]

I've been on the sidelines...
Lots to be learned from this, sadly lessons being learned the hard way.

Biggest takeaway: Don't trust anyone! Gentlemen's agreements mean absolutely nothing if it is not in writing. Always have an attorney draft your agreements.

Seems like a step forward for butane vapes, but I am not over the mistreatment of PH... they really carried FC to this product. I would purchase from PH, if they chose to carry it in the future.

Another huge takeaway, PH is attentive, responsive, and really made a great impression on me. I look forward to shopping with you and sending you business!

While the Anvil has had my attention, I can keep VAS satisfied with the P80, the Bowle, and my Toad that is arriving in the coming weeks.

 

[DennisFlonasal]

I also feel as if my order is tainted, will wait until John speaks his side but i def don't like what has happened here. @PlanetHaze has a guaranteed future customer in me

 

[ConvectCode1]

I don't know... this is likely an unpopular opinion since people seem to be calling for Vestratto John to respond here, but I kind of feel like all this dirty laundry shouldn't be aired in this thread. Wouldn't it be better for PH and Vestratto John to hash out their differences directly with each other instead of posting in public and asking us to take sides?

I agree. This forum isn’t the place for PH to be discussing their business. Deal with the guy that burned you directly. Or, most importantly don’t spend 3 years of your time developing and marketing a product based on a loose gentleman’s agreement. Get a signed document.
seems like extremely sour grapes to me and I’m so glad there are so many people on other forums and message boards/live chats that have no idea who PH even is and are thrilled about the new product. And you’re insane if you think Sneaky Pete’s won’t carry this, especially since PH said they’re taking their ball and going home. Never rely on one and only one source for your information about the actual release of a product because obviously you never know.

 

[VGOODIEZ]

I believe John will reluctantly join the forum and provide a response. I think we should hear him out.

As I have explained prior, my interaction has been pleasant and I never got the impression he was greedy or trying to mislead me so there's that. I offered him money multiple times to secure an order and he would not accept it until he was able to provide product. Not sure what kind of agreement PH would have had but if John took money from them and did this, I'd say it's pretty bad. But if no money was taken its different for me. A lot of manufacturers tend to launch with direct sales first in order to maximize margin in an effort to pay off startup costs that come along with a new product (patents, machinery, tooling, etc). Those costs can be significant and far outweigh any promotional costs.

And while I agree this business is best left between him and PH, PH has already chosen to bring it here so it's only fair to let John provide his side. Even if it's just a one time clarification post.

 

[games-loaves0t]

I already received a response from John. I don't want to speak for him. I encouraged him to create a company account and share his perspective on things.

@VGOODIEZ, based on John’s response (his side of the story), are you comfortable working with him?

 

[Bad Dog]

I'm sure like most wise men @VGOODIEZ wants to fully digest all that has been said and not come to any snap decisions