2ZM by Herbaltherm

[stonedBBer]

I actually haven't used a S&B capsule, I was just using it as a visual comparison. I will try and get back to you.

Okay, interesting. I just tested with an S&B caspule.

1. You cannot effectively use a 19/26, but you can use a 19/22 joint
2. You have to ride the battery harder
3. I cannot get as much vapor
4. Seems less efficient overall, and you have to almost constantly be pulling warm air over it

I cannot say I recommend this.

I'm fantasizing about hitting mine once Ryan wraps up.

Why would the 19/22 work as opposed to the 26?

 

[vapviking]

Why would the 19/22 work as opposed to the 26?

The longer, 26mm joint continues at the same taper as the 22, but the length means it has a narrower opening, so a capsule won't fit.
Interesting, and I'll check later, but I don't think S&B capsules fit in any of the 19/22 glass joints that I have...

 

[Yoosh]

Hey, hope everyone is doing well. Block of text incoming. I hate to bring bad news but unfortunately Ryan has proved once again why he can't be trusted. I love these products but Ryan isn't capable of running a small business. When I started a couple months ago Ryan had every intention to shut down and considered the vape industry dead. I convinced him to give it another try with me but his behavior became too much to handle. I had to fight just to get adequate customer service for our customers, he seemed more interested in trolling customers/makers.

Together we were able to make some headway and gain sales but Ryan was never happy, claiming the industry was worthless. He kept threatening to quit and move on, I would have to convince him constantly not to rage quit. After another argument this past week regarding business practices he decided to ghost me and disappear. I tried my best to reason with him but unfortunately he doesn't care. When I convinced him to do the 4Mi preorder my intention was that we would work hard to stick around and get this company running so we could support customers for years to come. Truly Ryan only cares about making as much quick cash as he can so he can "go get a real job/apartment and disappear"

It pains me to say this but I highly recommend asking for a refund on any current orders you may have. He has no intention to support any of these products after he disappears fully by the end of the year. He claims you'll be able to repair with his diy kits but that's not true, there are many issues that can occur. He should refund your order if you ask via email but I would do it soon as who knows when he'll actually disappear. I would refund/return any orders you've already received too as issues are already occurring and there's no way for him to handle both the front and back end of the business on this year plan we laid out together. It is likely there will be more issues/recalls, the preorders will likely arrive late if at all, and he absolutely won't support the products--especially once he's already moved on to the next one.

I wanted to believe these were heirloom products designed to last forever but unfortunately both my OG Milaana and Zion are broken and Ryan refuses to fix them. These products may last a few years but definitely not forever. He is rushing through these builds too quickly and making mistakes like he has with the 2ZM joint issue that's now occurring. Instead of handling things appropriately with a recall he's putting the responsibility onto the customer so he can move on to the next project and disappear quicker. There will absolutely be issues with the upcoming products; the 4Mi and the 4MD, as is normal, but you won't have any way of getting them fixed. He has changed the password to my Herbaltherm customer service email and also kicked me off the Instagram page I helped build. He refuses to pay me as well. It really is a shame as I'd love to support these products/community for years to come.

Please, whatever you do, avoid these Herbaltherm products and get a refund asap. I disagree entirely with Ryan's thought that the "industry is dead" and vapers have no choice but to buy his products. There are many wonderful vape companies run by wonderful people and I recommend everyone go support them instead. Ryan has no respect for this space or the people in it and I refuse to support that. Whatever glimmer of hope I had for Herbaltherm is lost now that Ryan has decided to say F U to everyone again. I know there is a small community of RBT supporters, including me, that continue to support his efforts but let me say honestly as one of those former supporters--don't meet your heroes and don't support jerks. Seeing how he actually talks about customers behind the scenes has shown his true personality and I don't think its right to make fun of passionate customers or take advantage of them like he does.

He has a history of fighting with other makers, stealing their work, and then playing the victim. He told me himself about his multiple issues. He stole from RogueGlassWorks, had issues with Vgoodiez, has blocked multiple people on IG for asking reasonable questions, not to mention he's completely banned from FC. He took advantage of the fact that I had an FC account so he could have a positive presence here. He even treats his friends badly, using them to shill post on FC then telling them to F off if he doesn't like the results. His latest scam idea was to buy a bunch of terpcicle clones from china to sell and undercut RogueGlassworks. He intended to do the same to all the stem makers I've been trying to support through giveaways and collabs. Truly, he will screw over anyone, even his own 'partner', if he thinks it'll help him out or if he's having a temper tantrum.

Our original plan was for me to work 10-15 hrs a week handling the entire front end. Turns out he was more interested in having 4 hour meetings 3x a week where he could rant. This used up 12 hours every week, not including the Live streams I did weekly on his behest. Unfortunately I had to work much more than 15 hrs a week to properly serve the business and actually handle the customers he was ignoring. I don't care that Ryan refuses to pay me for my work but I do care that he led me, and the customers, on for so long. The second I turned the customer spirit around and got the preorders set up he swooped in and kicked me out. He's absolutely a user and unfortunately it's cost him RBT and now Herbaltherm.

Now that Herbaltherm is shutting down and Ryan has gone awol, I won't be able to support you lovely customers via email or instagram. Please take everything you read via herbaltherm email or on the herbaltherm instagram with a huge grain of salt as Ryan is going to lie through his teeth to get money out of people. His intention is only to collect money from fans and deliver something that 'looks' artisanal, he does not care if it becomes a paperweight in a year.

Please feel free to reach out to me here on FC or dm on my personal instagram @steamtender. You can also email me at steamtenderyoosh@gmail.com. I'm happy to help support these products any way I can. I'm helping some people with usage on IG so if you're having issues I'm here for you.

I love FC and I love the vape community at large. I was so sad when RBT closed and I thought this would be an opportunity to bring more life to the vape industry but I was wrong. I'd rather lose months of pay than allow someone to take advantage of us. There are many wonderful makers out there and we don't need to slum it and support the unsavory ones.

These are my thoughts so far. This all occurred very quickly, if I still had access I'd email all the customers regarding his behavior. I'm sure he will try to respond on his forum with lies or trolling but who cares. Follow the history of his behavior and you'll see it repeated time and time again. To his true fans, please consider how he's treated you as a business over the years and realize you deserve better.

 

[PossumMD]

Sigh...

 

[dutchey666]

Hey, hope everyone is doing well. Block of text incoming. I hate to bring bad news but unfortunately Ryan has proved once again why he can't be trusted. I love these products but Ryan isn't capable of running a small business. When I started a couple months ago Ryan had every intention to shut down and considered the vape industry dead. I convinced him to give it another try with me but his behavior became too much to handle. I had to fight just to get adequate customer service for our customers, he seemed more interested in trolling customers/makers.

Together we were able to make some headway and gain sales but Ryan was never happy, claiming the industry was worthless. He kept threatening to quit and move on, I would have to convince him constantly not to rage quit. After another argument this past week regarding business practices he decided to ghost me and disappear. I tried my best to reason with him but unfortunately he doesn't care. When I convinced him to do the 4Mi preorder my intention was that we would work hard to stick around and get this company running so we could support customers for years to come. Truly Ryan only cares about making as much quick cash as he can so he can "go get a real job/apartment and disappear"

It pains me to say this but I highly recommend asking for a refund on any current orders you may have. He has no intention to support any of these products after he disappears fully by the end of the year. He claims you'll be able to repair with his diy kits but that's not true, there are many issues that can occur. He should refund your order if you ask via email but I would do it soon as who knows when he'll actually disappear. I would refund/return any orders you've already received too as issues are already occurring and there's no way for him to handle both the front and back end of the business on this year plan we laid out together. It is likely there will be more issues/recalls, the preorders will likely arrive late if at all, and he absolutely won't support the products--especially once he's already moved on to the next one.

I wanted to believe these were heirloom products designed to last forever but unfortunately both my OG Milaana and Zion are broken and Ryan refuses to fix them. These products may last a few years but definitely not forever. He is rushing through these builds too quickly and making mistakes like he has with the 2ZM joint issue that's now occurring. Instead of handling things appropriately with a recall he's putting the responsibility onto the customer so he can move on to the next project and disappear quicker. There will absolutely be issues with the upcoming products; the 4Mi and the 4MD, as is normal, but you won't have any way of getting them fixed. He has changed the password to my Herbaltherm customer service email and also kicked me off the Instagram page I helped build. He refuses to pay me as well. It really is a shame as I'd love to support these products/community for years to come.

Please, whatever you do, avoid these Herbaltherm products and get a refund asap. I disagree entirely with Ryan's thought that the "industry is dead" and vapers have no choice but to buy his products. There are many wonderful vape companies run by wonderful people and I recommend everyone go support them instead. Ryan has no respect for this space or the people in it and I refuse to support that. Whatever glimmer of hope I had for Herbaltherm is lost now that Ryan has decided to say F U to everyone again. I know there is a small community of RBT supporters, including me, that continue to support his efforts but let me say honestly as one of those former supporters--don't meet your heroes and don't support jerks. Seeing how he actually talks about customers behind the scenes has shown his true personality and I don't think its right to make fun of passionate customers or take advantage of them like he does.

He has a history of fighting with other makers, stealing their work, and then playing the victim. He told me himself about his multiple issues. He stole from RogueGlassWorks, had issues with Vgoodiez, has blocked multiple people on IG for asking reasonable questions, not to mention he's completely banned from FC. He took advantage of the fact that I had an FC account so he could have a positive presence here. He even treats his friends badly, using them to shill post on FC then telling them to F off if he doesn't like the results. His latest scam idea was to buy a bunch of terpcicle clones from china to sell and undercut RogueGlassworks. He intended to do the same to all the stem makers I've been trying to support through giveaways and collabs. Truly, he will screw over anyone, even his own 'partner', if he thinks it'll help him out or if he's having a temper tantrum.

Our original plan was for me to work 10-15 hrs a week handling the entire front end. Turns out he was more interested in having 4 hour meetings 3x a week where he could rant. This used up 12 hours every week, not including the Live streams I did weekly on his behest. Unfortunately I had to work much more than 15 hrs a week to properly serve the business and actually handle the customers he was ignoring. I don't care that Ryan refuses to pay me for my work but I do care that he led me, and the customers, on for so long. The second I turned the customer spirit around and got the preorders set up he swooped in and kicked me out. He's absolutely a user and unfortunately it's cost him RBT and now Herbaltherm.

Now that Herbaltherm is shutting down and Ryan has gone awol, I won't be able to support you lovely customers via email or instagram. Please take everything you read via herbaltherm email or on the herbaltherm instagram with a huge grain of salt as Ryan is going to lie through his teeth to get money out of people. His intention is only to collect money from fans and deliver something that 'looks' artisanal, he does not care if it becomes a paperweight in a year.

Please feel free to reach out to me here on FC or dm on my personal instagram @steamtender. You can also email me at steamtenderyoosh@gmail.com. I'm happy to help support these products any way I can. I'm helping some people with usage on IG so if you're having issues I'm here for you.

I love FC and I love the vape community at large. I was so sad when RBT closed and I thought this would be an opportunity to bring more life to the vape industry but I was wrong. I'd rather lose months of pay than allow someone to take advantage of us. There are many wonderful makers out there and we don't need to slum it and support the unsavory ones.

These are my thoughts so far. This all occurred very quickly, if I still had access I'd email all the customers regarding his behavior. I'm sure he will try to respond on his forum with lies or trolling but who cares. Follow the history of his behavior and you'll see it repeated time and time again. To his true fans, please consider how he's treated you as a business over the years and realize you deserve better.

Thank you for your customer service, at least my 2zm arrived a few days ago!

 

[ADULTSWIM]

Its sad that you guys are closing shop and that Ryan's a jerk. I really was thinking of getting another device but i guess I will just have to count myself lucky that i got a 2ZM before it all clasped. Now that things are crumbling maybe we can still get a guide going on how to repair the 2ZM's and try to come up with simple solutions to any known problems.

* I've already had to replace a push button. I think you can buy replacements on amazon.
*Anyone tried removing the inner glass. From what I can tell once you remove the cover the glass seems to be held in place with something. Maybe its glued in place. i may have a pic of said glue.

https://imgur.com/GPsntFK

 

[DaVapeGuy]

That's pretty messed up if he's actually planning on taking people's money and not delivering the products.

He made numerous posts/videos of 2ZM production units, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't just finish everything and send them out.

He also took a bunch of money for the 4Mi/4MD preorders.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but he has abused the trust of the members in this community and has gone too far if those are truly his intentions. It's not worth it to burn his reputation for a few thousand dollars, especially if he really is going to get a mech engineering job which pays way more than that.

Hopefully his conscience catches up to him and he makes good on ALL of the orders and good faith people put in him. Otherwise, karma is a bitch and he'll have to live with the guilt of screwing people over for a small amount of money.

Let's see what he plans on doing.

 

[chillmike]

Hey, hope everyone is doing well. Block of text incoming. I hate to bring bad news but unfortunately Ryan has proved once again why he can't be trusted. I love these products but Ryan isn't capable of running a small business. When I started a couple months ago Ryan had every intention to shut down and considered the vape industry dead. I convinced him to give it another try with me but his behavior became too much to handle. I had to fight just to get adequate customer service for our customers, he seemed more interested in trolling customers/makers.

Together we were able to make some headway and gain sales but Ryan was never happy, claiming the industry was worthless. He kept threatening to quit and move on, I would have to convince him constantly not to rage quit. After another argument this past week regarding business practices he decided to ghost me and disappear. I tried my best to reason with him but unfortunately he doesn't care. When I convinced him to do the 4Mi preorder my intention was that we would work hard to stick around and get this company running so we could support customers for years to come. Truly Ryan only cares about making as much quick cash as he can so he can "go get a real job/apartment and disappear"

It pains me to say this but I highly recommend asking for a refund on any current orders you may have. He has no intention to support any of these products after he disappears fully by the end of the year. He claims you'll be able to repair with his diy kits but that's not true, there are many issues that can occur. He should refund your order if you ask via email but I would do it soon as who knows when he'll actually disappear. I would refund/return any orders you've already received too as issues are already occurring and there's no way for him to handle both the front and back end of the business on this year plan we laid out together. It is likely there will be more issues/recalls, the preorders will likely arrive late if at all, and he absolutely won't support the products--especially once he's already moved on to the next one.

I wanted to believe these were heirloom products designed to last forever but unfortunately both my OG Milaana and Zion are broken and Ryan refuses to fix them. These products may last a few years but definitely not forever. He is rushing through these builds too quickly and making mistakes like he has with the 2ZM joint issue that's now occurring. Instead of handling things appropriately with a recall he's putting the responsibility onto the customer so he can move on to the next project and disappear quicker. There will absolutely be issues with the upcoming products; the 4Mi and the 4MD, as is normal, but you won't have any way of getting them fixed. He has changed the password to my Herbaltherm customer service email and also kicked me off the Instagram page I helped build. He refuses to pay me as well. It really is a shame as I'd love to support these products/community for years to come.

Please, whatever you do, avoid these Herbaltherm products and get a refund asap. I disagree entirely with Ryan's thought that the "industry is dead" and vapers have no choice but to buy his products. There are many wonderful vape companies run by wonderful people and I recommend everyone go support them instead. Ryan has no respect for this space or the people in it and I refuse to support that. Whatever glimmer of hope I had for Herbaltherm is lost now that Ryan has decided to say F U to everyone again. I know there is a small community of RBT supporters, including me, that continue to support his efforts but let me say honestly as one of those former supporters--don't meet your heroes and don't support jerks. Seeing how he actually talks about customers behind the scenes has shown his true personality and I don't think its right to make fun of passionate customers or take advantage of them like he does.

He has a history of fighting with other makers, stealing their work, and then playing the victim. He told me himself about his multiple issues. He stole from RogueGlassWorks, had issues with Vgoodiez, has blocked multiple people on IG for asking reasonable questions, not to mention he's completely banned from FC. He took advantage of the fact that I had an FC account so he could have a positive presence here. He even treats his friends badly, using them to shill post on FC then telling them to F off if he doesn't like the results. His latest scam idea was to buy a bunch of terpcicle clones from china to sell and undercut RogueGlassworks. He intended to do the same to all the stem makers I've been trying to support through giveaways and collabs. Truly, he will screw over anyone, even his own 'partner', if he thinks it'll help him out or if he's having a temper tantrum.

Our original plan was for me to work 10-15 hrs a week handling the entire front end. Turns out he was more interested in having 4 hour meetings 3x a week where he could rant. This used up 12 hours every week, not including the Live streams I did weekly on his behest. Unfortunately I had to work much more than 15 hrs a week to properly serve the business and actually handle the customers he was ignoring. I don't care that Ryan refuses to pay me for my work but I do care that he led me, and the customers, on for so long. The second I turned the customer spirit around and got the preorders set up he swooped in and kicked me out. He's absolutely a user and unfortunately it's cost him RBT and now Herbaltherm.

Now that Herbaltherm is shutting down and Ryan has gone awol, I won't be able to support you lovely customers via email or instagram. Please take everything you read via herbaltherm email or on the herbaltherm instagram with a huge grain of salt as Ryan is going to lie through his teeth to get money out of people. His intention is only to collect money from fans and deliver something that 'looks' artisanal, he does not care if it becomes a paperweight in a year.

Please feel free to reach out to me here on FC or dm on my personal instagram @steamtender. You can also email me at steamtenderyoosh@gmail.com. I'm happy to help support these products any way I can. I'm helping some people with usage on IG so if you're having issues I'm here for you.

I love FC and I love the vape community at large. I was so sad when RBT closed and I thought this would be an opportunity to bring more life to the vape industry but I was wrong. I'd rather lose months of pay than allow someone to take advantage of us. There are many wonderful makers out there and we don't need to slum it and support the unsavory ones.

These are my thoughts so far. This all occurred very quickly, if I still had access I'd email all the customers regarding his behavior. I'm sure he will try to respond on his forum with lies or trolling but who cares. Follow the history of his behavior and you'll see it repeated time and time again. To his true fans, please consider how he's treated you as a business over the years and realize you deserve better.

you are a great man for speaking and spreading the Truth. your credibility and honor in this community, I would definitely say is now solidified, and I for one will say I have your back on anything from here on out. you sir are a legend for divulging the absolute uncensored Truth on whats really going on and i cant thank you on behalf of this community and industry enough... much love and respect bud. cheers.

 

[Andreaerdna]

He has a history of fighting with other makers, stealing their work, and then playing the victim. He told me himself about his multiple issues. He stole from RogueGlassWorks, had issues with Vgoodiez, has blocked multiple people on IG for asking reasonable questions, not to mention he's completely banned from FC. He took advantage of the fact that I had an FC account so he could have a positive presence here. He even treats his friends badly, using them to shill post on FC then telling them to F off if he doesn't like the results

this is all old news, well known old news
why did you decide to support/join him while knowing this and why waiting until he kicked you out of the door to give this feed back?
I want to believe your good faith but i am curious, how is he able to get new helpers every time despite his history?

 

[DeadRabb1t]

this is all old news, well known old news
why did you decide to support/join him while knowing this and why waiting until he kicked you out of the door to give this feed back?
I want to believe your good faith but i am curious, how is he able to get new helpers every time despite his history?

Exactly the same way a badun attracts the opposite sex, there is the element of "it won't be me, I understand them, I can change them."

Also where's my surprise face emoji I can't seem to put my finger on it

 

[vapviking]

Hey, hope everyone is doing well. Block of text incoming. I hate to bring bad news but unfortunately Ryan has proved once again why he can't be trusted. I love these products but Ryan isn't capable of running a small business. When I started a couple months ago Ryan had every intention to shut down and considered the vape industry dead. I convinced him to give it another try with me but his behavior became too much to handle. I had to fight just to get adequate customer service for our customers, he seemed more interested in trolling customers/makers.

Together we were able to make some headway and gain sales but Ryan was never happy, claiming the industry was worthless. He kept threatening to quit and move on, I would have to convince him constantly not to rage quit. After another argument this past week regarding business practices he decided to ghost me and disappear. I tried my best to reason with him but unfortunately he doesn't care. When I convinced him to do the 4Mi preorder my intention was that we would work hard to stick around and get this company running so we could support customers for years to come. Truly Ryan only cares about making as much quick cash as he can so he can "go get a real job/apartment and disappear"

It pains me to say this but I highly recommend asking for a refund on any current orders you may have. He has no intention to support any of these products after he disappears fully by the end of the year. He claims you'll be able to repair with his diy kits but that's not true, there are many issues that can occur. He should refund your order if you ask via email but I would do it soon as who knows when he'll actually disappear. I would refund/return any orders you've already received too as issues are already occurring and there's no way for him to handle both the front and back end of the business on this year plan we laid out together. It is likely there will be more issues/recalls, the preorders will likely arrive late if at all, and he absolutely won't support the products--especially once he's already moved on to the next one.

I wanted to believe these were heirloom products designed to last forever but unfortunately both my OG Milaana and Zion are broken and Ryan refuses to fix them. These products may last a few years but definitely not forever. He is rushing through these builds too quickly and making mistakes like he has with the 2ZM joint issue that's now occurring. Instead of handling things appropriately with a recall he's putting the responsibility onto the customer so he can move on to the next project and disappear quicker. There will absolutely be issues with the upcoming products; the 4Mi and the 4MD, as is normal, but you won't have any way of getting them fixed. He has changed the password to my Herbaltherm customer service email and also kicked me off the Instagram page I helped build. He refuses to pay me as well. It really is a shame as I'd love to support these products/community for years to come.

Please, whatever you do, avoid these Herbaltherm products and get a refund asap. I disagree entirely with Ryan's thought that the "industry is dead" and vapers have no choice but to buy his products. There are many wonderful vape companies run by wonderful people and I recommend everyone go support them instead. Ryan has no respect for this space or the people in it and I refuse to support that. Whatever glimmer of hope I had for Herbaltherm is lost now that Ryan has decided to say F U to everyone again. I know there is a small community of RBT supporters, including me, that continue to support his efforts but let me say honestly as one of those former supporters--don't meet your heroes and don't support jerks. Seeing how he actually talks about customers behind the scenes has shown his true personality and I don't think its right to make fun of passionate customers or take advantage of them like he does.

He has a history of fighting with other makers, stealing their work, and then playing the victim. He told me himself about his multiple issues. He stole from RogueGlassWorks, had issues with Vgoodiez, has blocked multiple people on IG for asking reasonable questions, not to mention he's completely banned from FC. He took advantage of the fact that I had an FC account so he could have a positive presence here. He even treats his friends badly, using them to shill post on FC then telling them to F off if he doesn't like the results. His latest scam idea was to buy a bunch of terpcicle clones from china to sell and undercut RogueGlassworks. He intended to do the same to all the stem makers I've been trying to support through giveaways and collabs. Truly, he will screw over anyone, even his own 'partner', if he thinks it'll help him out or if he's having a temper tantrum.

Our original plan was for me to work 10-15 hrs a week handling the entire front end. Turns out he was more interested in having 4 hour meetings 3x a week where he could rant. This used up 12 hours every week, not including the Live streams I did weekly on his behest. Unfortunately I had to work much more than 15 hrs a week to properly serve the business and actually handle the customers he was ignoring. I don't care that Ryan refuses to pay me for my work but I do care that he led me, and the customers, on for so long. The second I turned the customer spirit around and got the preorders set up he swooped in and kicked me out. He's absolutely a user and unfortunately it's cost him RBT and now Herbaltherm.

Now that Herbaltherm is shutting down and Ryan has gone awol, I won't be able to support you lovely customers via email or instagram. Please take everything you read via herbaltherm email or on the herbaltherm instagram with a huge grain of salt as Ryan is going to lie through his teeth to get money out of people. His intention is only to collect money from fans and deliver something that 'looks' artisanal, he does not care if it becomes a paperweight in a year.

Please feel free to reach out to me here on FC or dm on my personal instagram @steamtender. You can also email me at steamtenderyoosh@gmail.com. I'm happy to help support these products any way I can. I'm helping some people with usage on IG so if you're having issues I'm here for you.

I love FC and I love the vape community at large. I was so sad when RBT closed and I thought this would be an opportunity to bring more life to the vape industry but I was wrong. I'd rather lose months of pay than allow someone to take advantage of us. There are many wonderful makers out there and we don't need to slum it and support the unsavory ones.

These are my thoughts so far. This all occurred very quickly, if I still had access I'd email all the customers regarding his behavior. I'm sure he will try to respond on his forum with lies or trolling but who cares. Follow the history of his behavior and you'll see it repeated time and time again. To his true fans, please consider how he's treated you as a business over the years and realize you deserve better.

Regardless of where the truths lie, and I do happen to think you are a nice guy, I find this unsavory, melodramatic, reactionary, inflamatory.

I appreciate your passion and your desire to warn folks, but that could have been done in 3 or 4 sentences.
And I do hope you get paid, per whatever agreement you guys had.

I'm gonna wait for my 2ZM, looks like it should be near ready...

 

[oddjobold]

A message from Ryan:

"Sorry for the drama all. Sorry things didn't work out Yoosh. I had no idea that it would require that much time to answer emails, and post on IG and FC. After having you go MIA for several weeks and receiving communication similar to the crazy above, I had to pull the plug. I believe that you have been more than compensated as per our agreement and will go as far to say you were front end loaded for your services with the pre-order spikes and now are not around to do the work. Luckily my best customer that has been with me since 2017 will be taking over the customer service job. "The Goose" will start on Monday and you can use the "single point of contact" contact form on the www to get ahold of him. To ensure Goose doesn't get bogged down like Yoosh, we have created a list of FAQs on our contact page. If a question is not answered in the FAQ we will update it when a question is asked. This should eliminate the issue that Yoosh suffered.

OK, Moving on... After a year of working hard on Herbaltherm, I do not see sufficient demand to continue to make it a viable business, so my plan is to do 3 last builds (2ZM, 4MD and 4MI) and retire. This takes the pressure off as they objective is no longer to create a sustainable cash business, but rather just enjoy making a few more things for a few close friends. The 3TM, 1MT and the 5DT will no longer be produced and the HH (hot hole) pre-order has been canceled. This clears my schedule to focus purely on: completing the last batch of 2ZMs, Executing the 4MD and 4MI with supporting accessories. I am looking forward to manifesting these works as they have been on the design table for years. Not that the RBT gear is bad, just that being able to put the learning into perfecting one more set of products is going to be my reward.

Most companies will tell you they are going out of business when they have the 50% off sale. I am making the bold move to let people know that I am retiring in advance. Most will not do this due to the fear that your products will not be supported. So, my solution is to include DIY repair kits with every unit with videos on troubleshooting and repair on the herbaltherm.freeforum.net. This will provide a home for the Herbaltherm where friends can help friends repair their products as well as talk accessories, techniques etc. Ya see, I don't care about money, I care about legacy... and I tell you what... the Goose and I are gonna have ourselves a good time shutting down this old saloon!

Well, I am off to do refunds. Thanks to all who are friends, all who have supported over the years and especially to OddJob for helping me clean up this mess.

I will be on IG Live tonight around 10 PM if anyone wants to stop out and ask any questions Again, sorry for the mess. I am just a guy who is just trying to make a few more vapes for the community "

 

[RogueGuy]

I will be on IG Live tonight around 10 PM if anyone wants to stop out and ask any questions Again

It's a date!!!

 

[Yoosh]

you are a great man for speaking and spreading the Truth. your credibility and honor in this community, I would definitely say is now solidified, and I for one will say I have your back on anything from here on out. you sir are a legend for divulging the absolute uncensored Truth on whats really going on and i cant thank you on behalf of this community and industry enough... much love and respect bud. cheers.

Thanks ChillMike it means a lot I feel horrible that it didn't work out and everyone deserves the truth, no matter how unsavory it is. I feel used myself but if I didn't explain things honestly to FC I would be just as bad as Ryan. Much love and respect back, cheers

Its sad that you guys are closing shop and that Ryan's a jerk. I really was thinking of getting another device but i guess I will just have to count myself lucky that i got a 2ZM before it all clasped. Now that things are crumbling maybe we can still get a guide going on how to repair the 2ZM's and try to come up with simple solutions to any known problems.

* I've already had to replace a push button. I think you can buy replacements on amazon.
*Anyone tried removing the inner glass. From what I can tell once you remove the cover the glass seems to be held in place with something. Maybe its glued in place. i may have a pic of said glue.

I hope so as well. Yes, the glass is held in with epoxy. For the 1st batch of 2ZMs he didn't put enough which caused the joint to twist in one user's 2ZM. This is dangerous as it could short and cause big issues. He's said he's to send out glue so people can fix it themselves, but I don't find that to be an appropriate solution for customers. Best of luck! Let me know if I can help.

That's pretty messed up if he's actually planning on taking people's money and not delivering the products.

He made numerous posts/videos of 2ZM production units, so I'm not sure why he wouldn't just finish everything and send them out.

He also took a bunch of money for the 4Mi/4MD preorders.

I'll give him the benefit of the doubt for now, but he has abused the trust of the members in this community and has gone too far if those are truly his intentions. It's not worth it to burn his reputation for a few thousand dollars, especially if he really is going to get a mech engineering job which pays way more than that.

Hopefully his conscience catches up to him and he makes good on ALL of the orders and good faith people put in him. Otherwise, karma is a bitch and he'll have to live with the guilt of screwing people over for a small amount of money.

Let's see what he plans on doing.

He changes his mind quickly is all I can say. We had a contract and plan for the year but when he got emotional he changed things abruptly without honoring our agreement. I wanted the contract so I could assure the customers would be helped and not left in the lurch.

this is all old news, well known old news
why did you decide to support/join him while knowing this and why waiting until he kicked you out of the door to give this feed back?
I want to believe your good faith but i am curious, how is he able to get new helpers every time despite his history?

You're not wrong. There's many reasons I tried to support him. I loved RBT and I felt sympathy for Ryan and his mental health. He was at a low point and it seemed he had learned his lesson. We created a contract as my attempt to protect the front end from him so I could assure things wouldn't go south but yes he did take advantage of my good faith. I didn't want to talk about drama which is why I've been trying to reach out to Ryan to resolve this but he refuses to listen and I have no other way to warn customers. Up until this point everything had been decent. I'm not sure how he's able to get new helpers every time but he has some loyal old fans that he takes care of better than the rest. I think he's able to insulate himself with this small circle. In the end I was wrong and I should have listened to your warning, my apologies.

Exactly the same way a badun attracts the opposite sex, there is the element of "it won't be me, I understand them, I can change them."

Fair point! I absolutely didn't think I could change him or understand him but I did think I could work with him in a professional environment. I've worked with many difficult people in my line of work. But he kept interfering with the front end and eventually dropped the bomb that he was shutting everything down out of nowhere.

Regardless of where the truths lie, and I do happen to think you are a nice guy, I find this unsavory, melodramatic, reactionary, inflamatory.

I appreciate your passion and your desire to warn folks, but that could have been done in 3 or 4 sentences.
And I do hope you get paid, per whatever agreement you guys had.

I'm gonna wait for my 2ZM, looks like it should be near ready...

I don't disagree with you but I had no choice. This whole situation is unsavory. It would've been much more unsavory for me to disappear quietly and not warn a soul about his plans. I don't agree that 3 or 4 sentences would have been enough lol. I won't get paid for sure but that's fine. I understand not liking the situation but FC deserves detailed honesty, sorry if it was too much to read

 

[Yoosh]

A message from Ryan:

"Sorry for the drama all. Sorry things didn't work out Yoosh. I had no idea that it would require that much time to answer emails, and post on IG and FC. After having you go MIA for several weeks and receiving communication similar to the crazy above, I had to pull the plug. I believe that you have been more than compensated as per our agreement and will go as far to say you were front end loaded for your services with the pre-order spikes and now are not around to do the work. Luckily my best customer that has been with me since 2017 will be taking over the customer service job. "The Goose" will start on Monday and you can use the "single point of contact" contact form on the www to get ahold of him. To ensure Goose doesn't get bogged down like Yoosh, we have created a list of FAQs on our contact page. If a question is not answered in the FAQ we will update it when a question is asked. This should eliminate the issue that Yoosh suffered.

OK, Moving on... After a year of working hard on Herbaltherm, I do not see sufficient demand to continue to make it a viable business, so my plan is to do 3 last builds (2ZM, 4MD and 4MI) and retire. This takes the pressure off as they objective is no longer to create a sustainable cash business, but rather just enjoy making a few more things for a few close friends. The 3TM, 1MT and the 5DT will no longer be produced and the HH (hot hole) pre-order has been canceled. This clears my schedule to focus purely on: completing the last batch of 2ZMs, Executing the 4MD and 4MI with supporting accessories. I am looking forward to manifesting these works as they have been on the design table for years. Not that the RBT gear is bad, just that being able to put the learning into perfecting one more set of products is going to be my reward.

Most companies will tell you they are going out of business when they have the 50% off sale. I am making the bold move to let people know that I am retiring in advance. Most will not do this due to the fear that your products will not be supported. So, my solution is to include DIY repair kits with every unit with videos on troubleshooting and repair on the herbaltherm.freeforum.net. This will provide a home for the Herbaltherm where friends can help friends repair their products as well as talk accessories, techniques etc. Ya see, I don't care about money, I care about legacy... and I tell you what... the Goose and I are gonna have ourselves a good time shutting down this old saloon!

Well, I am off to do refunds. Thanks to all who are friends, all who have supported over the years and especially to OddJob for helping me clean up this mess.

I will be on IG Live tonight around 10 PM if anyone wants to stop out and ask any questions Again, sorry for the mess. I am just a guy who is just trying to make a few more vapes for the community "

Best of luck to The Goose! I won't try to convince you that this is a bad idea but know he said the exact same things to me when I started. Maybe we can start a support group for people screwed by Ryan someday lol.

A few lies in this message from Ryan:

-I didn't go MIA, I had 2 personal emergencies occur and Ryan told me to take as much time as I needed, he said HT would be fine. After a couple days he sent an angry text blaming me for customers being upset about the 2ZM issues

-Ryan and I wanted to do the FAQ but he never gave me access to the site, he never even gave me the tools to handle refunds or upgrades. I created a slack page to organize our work flow but he refused to use it and instead would barrage me with texts/dms/emails all over the place. He would forget constantly so customers would get upset because I'd have to ask for refunds/etc multiple times before he would do them

-Our agreement had us calculating my payment every Sunday. 3 Sundays ago Ryan said his card wasn't working and that he'd pay me soon. After we disagreed on his business practices he went MIA himself and refuses to pay

-I wasn't handling only emails, FC, and IG -- there was more work involved. We built the product plan together and spent hours every week working on things like getting new products for the store.

-Ryan wants you in his walled garden at his forum because he can say whatever he wants and ban anyone who disagrees

I love ya Oddjob, you're a great guy and I had a great time interacting with you. I wish you all the best!

I've been getting lots of DMs if I haven't responded to you yet I will shortly. Cheers

 

[Trackrat]

I've been playing with my 2ZM for a week now, and once again, Ryan knocked it out of the park. Easy to operate and I just can't get over the flavor I'm getting out of the 2ZM. Some of you that are waiting to get yours in your hands are in for a pleasant surprise. If you're thinking about a refund, you might want to rethink that. I feel this is one vape that belongs in your collection. Can't wait to see the desktop. Thanks Ryan for all the smiles

 

[ADULTSWIM]

I hope so as well. Yes, the glass is held in with epoxy. For the 1st batch of 2ZMs he didn't put enough which caused the joint to twist in one user's 2ZM. This is dangerous as it could short and cause big issues. He's said he's to send out glue so people can fix it themselves, but I don't find that to be an appropriate solution for customers. Best of luck! Let me know if I can help.

Ok this is concerning now. The "Big issue" that your mentioning is if the wires in the chamber cross your 2ZM effectively becomes a mini 18650 explosive. Examples of this problem have already popped up because your customers wanted to rotate the stem. Instead of doing a recall the solution to a literal fire hazard was a little bit of glue. These are the kind of problems that get people sued. while i know this may seem like an over reaction its is not. I've had my house burn down due to an 18650 fire and yeah I would not like to be around when a 2ZM explodes.

You have a responsibility to warn every 2ZM user of the potential risks, I would not ignore such a fire hazard. Especially when claiming that this thing is DIY safe. I'm not a fan of Murphy's law but it seems applicable/foresight in this situation.

 

[stonedBBer]

Well, now all that have bought in start to experience the waves of brilliance and flashes of artistry, intermixed with a lost soul.

Ryan has mixed experience with critics here on FC. By buying into his 100 you all have kinda insulated him from the risks and complaints he had during the Milaana and Splinter launches.

Glass breaks, buttons wear out. Anything not user replaceable had to go back to Ryan until a few others agreed to service them. Extra items that don’t get sold are just sunk cost to the creator and lost profit

This Zion design he’s looking to fix that, and by getting 100 to sign up he can limit his audience kick anyone out he doesnt vibe with and control all content moderation.

He’s not coming back to fc. And for the 100 hang on for the ride and enjoy the process but dont expect a smooth straight path.

#riptbt


edit: most of that history is public and easy to find in the old threads.

Old history being relevant now, can you link it

What does this even mean? Im not sure getting a milaana where the pick has to be totally unscrewed to get the battery in or out because he screwed the hole too close to the battery slot is "holding ro his standards" nor is the milaana i have with an obvious short in the path so it doesnt get hot enough and the button heats up from discharged electricity into it. These obvious errors would not have happened if he was intensely scrutinizing his production standards.

With all due respect, I have been on this ride before, and it seems like this is your first time, so let me tell you something: he relies on people like you just having faith in him to avoid accountability. If he didnt have this rogue-engineering genius in the desert-shtick that people bought into, and they took a sober assessment of all the times hes been less-than-honest with people and all the times he has failed to do something hes said he was gonna do, he wouldve been permanently out of the game a while ago. When its a year from now and you still dont have a 2zm and hes quit herbal therm again, dont say I didnt warn you.

Aged like a fine wine

 

[oddjobold]

My position.

I have no idea what went on between Ryan and Yoosh. I was not there, i dont know whos in the right and whos in wrong. I wont speculate, cuz i dont know facts.

But Yoosh can post his view on the forum and Ryan cant. So to me having both sides of the story, for people to make there own minds up, seems only fair. Thats why i am happy to forward messages from Ryan.

In regards to the 2ZM, from what i can see on my unit my glass is stuck in with a fair amount of glue. You can see it if you look at the walls of the glass. One of the big selling points was the glue-less design. So to me its a bit disappointing that glue has still been used. I wont go in to the arguments / counter arguments on if this is safe, its been done many times before. However it would be better if its not there, but still better than twisting glass.

In regards to the 2ZM being dangerous, the following would need to happen:

1) you would need the glass to become lose and twist,

2) the heater to distort so much it shorts,

3) you not to notice ths glass is lose,

4) and the buttons to be held down for some time before anything would happen.

You would not get a short without the buttons being held down, and the device being left unattended should be safe. I see this as very low risk.

Key message: Dont use the device if the glass is loose.

Regarding repair kits, it was quite clear from the start this was the way Ryan was going. No surprises for me.

With all that in mind, its the only thing i reach for when at home. I still am happy with what i brought, for the money, bearing in mind i paid pre-order prices.

 

[DgN'R]

I have a used Milaana 2 that traveled from Las Vegas to France and it still works perfectly.. every day.. and the day it breaks down, I repair it myself, there's nothing complicated about it (especially now with repair kit included)..

My Splinter Z Custom US bought a long time ago still works perfectly too.. So keep my money because I still want to participate in the last trilogy of Ryan work because I have a feeling I'm going to regret it if I give up now

These last three trilogies should offer a very complete environment!

Sorry for you @Yoosh and I hope you'll find an arrangement..

Aged like a fine wine

Yeah.. you can also find this kind of thing with a little digging

Alright, so checking: i have been 100% completely and utterly stoned since this thing arrived. Totally contrary to my expectations, i find that this thing has the most responsive heater of any of my unregulated devices. I have had no problems taking the kind of rips i love, which are huge low temp clouds. This thing even beats out my minivap for flavor, i can tell every nuance of the terpenes in that first hit. I had high expectations and the zion m has blown them all away, truly the ultimate unregulated device.

 

[ADULTSWIM]

In regards to the 2ZM being dangerous, the following would need to happen:

1) you would need the glass to become lose and twist,

2) the heater to distort so much it shorts,

3) you not to notice ths glass is lose,

4) and the buttons to be held down for some time before anything would happen.

You would not get a short without the buttons being held down, and the device being left unattended should be safe. I see this as very low risk.

Key message: Dont use the device if the glass is loose.

This product has been shipped with no manual or instructions on how to DIY. If you decide to open and unglue your 2ZM like you have been told you can it will expose the flaw. No one is stopping you from putting it back together and crossing the two exposed wires out of ignorance. You then go to test the heater and the two 18650 batts explode. It's not a far fetched tail but a glaring design flaw that you already know exists and are trying to fix without investing the right resources. The right solution to this problem has to be under no circumstance can the main positive and negative wires cross in an unregulated device. leaving any room for chance is a gamble no vape company would ever take.

Regarding repair kits, it was quite clear from the start this was the way Ryan was going. No surprises for me.

With all that in mind, its the only thing i reach for when at home. I still am happy with what i brought, for the money, bearing in mind i paid pre-order prices.

Putting glue in your air path makes this non DIY. If i was told glue had been added on day one i would not purchase a 2ZM and i would just admire the product from a far. But i was not told and when i tried to email the company about it, things turned into a game of hide and seek. i had to find answers out on FC. Im happy that your happy with your purchase but history seems to be repeating itself and i can't be the only one that wants off the ride. I just hope that HT will still honor refunds for the people that want one.

 

[stonedBBer]

I requested my refund and I'm giving him today to refund before I just charge back the credit card

 

[ADULTSWIM]

I requested my refund and I'm giving him today to refund before I just charge back the credit card

I put in a request for a refund over the weekend after two buttons have failed and gotten stuck. Don't think your gonna get a refund quickly. History has shown me that it takes a week to hear anything back.

 

[stonedBBer]

I put in a request for a refund over the weekend after two buttons have failed and gotten stuck. Don't think your gonna get a refund quickly. History has shown me that it takes a week to hear anything back though email.

Pretty sure I'll get it in 24 hours or less, just not the way Ryan wants ahahahha. Hopefully he's quick tho ans don't need to resort to that

Got it quick and Ryan was very polite about it.
Sad as I really wanted to be apart of this but it just is sending to many red flags and is running later than promised (2 weeks from my purchase of the premium 2zm on his site as it said 2 weeks from purchase date) him emailing me saying "the only thing that can go wrong is thr glass breaking " when per this thread we have people already getting button issues. Assuming all the stems are properly glued and that isn't an issue there is still the button issue and he never mentioned it.

Also a but alarmed on glue in the airpath but ngl I don't know enough on that subject to speak to it.

I have a used Milaana 2 that traveled from Las Vegas to France and it still works perfectly.. every day.. and the day it breaks down, I repair it myself, there's nothing complicated about it (especially now with repair kit included)..

My Splinter Z Custom US bought a long time ago still works perfectly too.. So keep my money because I still want to participate in the last trilogy of Ryan work because I have a feeling I'm going to regret it if I give up now

These last three trilogies should offer a very complete environment!

Sorry for you @Yoosh and I hope you'll find an arrangement..


Yeah.. you can also find this kind of thing with a little digging

For $450 I don't believe I should be responsible to fix factory production issues. That's a big chuck of change for a 2zm premium

 

[dutchey666]

Do I need to press both buttons?