2ZM by Herbaltherm

[DgN'R]

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[PossumMD]

Just don't twist it in the device.

I got what I paid for (a little later than expected but whatever), so I can't really complain. Hopefully it doesn't break but it seems fairly diyable, as long as he follows through on repair video/explanations I'm happy.

edit: And now they're limited edition!

I don't see how having to change a technique so engrained it has a term named after the brand is a good thing. I sure as shit would do it given how long I've used my rbt devices this way.

 

[Zillacon]

If you have a preorder maybe don't cancel and just see what you get.

This is the type of stance that allows for the shoddy work and poor behavior to continue. These devices are not being sold as beta units...

 

[PossumMD]

This is the type of stance that allows for the shoddy work and poor behavior to continue. These devices are not being sold as beta units...

Especially given the forum post, from what I'm reading the coil and the metal plate on top are the only things that don't need refinement. That doesn't sound complete at all. I'd be a lot more understanding if it was made clear they were beta products, but that is very much not the case here.

 

[popitup]

This thread has veered from objective criticism of the 2ZM to speculation muddled with drama.

Does anyone that is talking negative about the fit and finish actually have one of these in-hand? Or are these claims from snooping instagram?

Here are some close up picture of my device if anyone wants to point out the flaws. Reiterating: this is higher quality finishing than most of the wooden vapes I own.

https://imgur.com/Ln37tus

https://imgur.com/5NvD8NI

https://imgur.com/k4dzOma

I received one of the earlier units, and by Ryan's own account, he's not a skilled woodworker, but I think these pictures speak for themselves. Multiple different wood species butted up with very small tolerances.


Anyway... addressing some of the drama, I'm keeping my preorder. It's a long and bumpy road, with some delays and changes, but it's like buying a lotto ticket, and you might get something exciting at the end. Ryan has never straight-up taken my money and provided nothing in return. He has sat on my money for months, and he has under-delivered on occasion, but as someone else in these forums said, "I knew who Ryan was when I put my money in."

There is a reason he hasn't maintained many good relationships with vendors and makers. There is a reason RBT doesn't exist, and he's banned from these forums. There is a reason bringing in Yoosh to help with CS built confidence in the general community.

Keep this in mind if buying a lotto ticket.


The epoxy thing is concerning. Why didn't the design consider a notch/grove or something that doesn't require additional materials?

 

[Zillacon]

@popitup yes I do have one...and no it's not speculative.

 

[PossumMD]

Does anyone that is talking negative about the fit and finish actually have one of these in-hand? Or are these claims from snooping instagram?

One page back, @Zillacon has reported issues with theirs. Also, Ryan himself has said this:

2. Insufficient capital / time available to make "factory made" appearance / technology

And for what it's worth, there are some flaws on yours, but nothing I would be particularly concerned about myself. It's why I asked for photos, most I've seen have looked fine, so I'm interested see how it can go wrong cos there were definitely a number of poorly made rbt devices back in the day.

 

[popitup]

One page back, @Zillacon has reported issues with theirs. Also, Ryan himself has said this:

2. Insufficient capital / time available to make "factory made" appearance / technology

Good points.

I'm interested see how it can go wrong cos there were definitely a number of poorly made rbt devices back in the day.

It started to feel like general criticism was ramping up the past few pages, but this is a valid concern.

 

[Shit Snacks]

I don't see how having to change a technique so engrained it has a term named after the brand is a good thing. I sure as shit would do it given how long I've used my rbt devices this way.

I believe in the past it actually had come up that this could be a potential issue, in a few ways, but it was said that ideal practice would be to remove the stem a bit when you are doing the old rotate during a bowl, instead of trying to turn it completely inserted up against the ground glass etc. so this is not exactly a new situation here imo

The epoxy thing is concerning. Why didn't the design consider a notch/grove or something that doesn't require additional materials?

I don't know how concerning exactly per se, but I will say it is a bit disappointing, to see that the epoxy was still necessary in his builds here... Just from looking at it, I thought the top plate screwing down, was there to hold the glass in, yeah that there was some sort of notch design in place to prevent it from turning or twisting freely, that the benefit now would be easy replacement of glass parts as needed... Seems like it is primarily to protect top of the glass though?

 

[oddjobold]

I would recommend everyone to read the continuous improvement thread on the 2ZM.

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I would be interested to hear what people think.

 

[PossumMD]

I would recommend everyone to read the continuous improvement thread on the 2ZM.

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I would be interested to hear what people think.

Already commented on this. The unfinished state that those posts seem to indicate the units are in should've been made known from the start. I don't mind being a beta tester, but I'd like to know I'm doing it before I put down any cash.

 

[coolbreeze]

I would recommend everyone to read the continuous improvement thread on the 2ZM.

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I would be interested to hear what people think.

Mine is in the current batch so it should have the right buttons, more epoxy, and the fuse--I'm hopeful that it will be solid.

 

[stonedBBer]

Already commented on this. The unfinished state that those posts seem to indicate the units are in should've been made known from the start. I don't mind being a beta tester, but I'd like to know I'm doing it before I put down any cash.

Took the following off his forum
"
Sorry to hear that bud. I will make a button replacement button video soon. If you read the Continuous Improvement thread the button is already addressed. I used about 20 buttons from a different source to fill in as my current source was out of stock. I have only been notified of one unit with button failures and now yours so that is 2 of the 10. Please let folk know on FC that any business related inquires are made through the contact page on the www. This is done so that we can continually update the FAQs to answer your questions immediately. If you do not see answer in the FAQ then ask your question in the comment box. I will then put your Q AND A into the FAQ for the next guy so this one guy show can be efficient with the customer service thang.

Not a big deal in that the failure known, isolated to 10 units and there are less than 50 units in the field and I know have a big supply of buttons from the proven supplier... Unless you are on FC and where the sky is always falling."


Ryan refusing to fix his own faulty product and having the consumer to it. Also him not taking any responsibility for bad sourcing.

Also he fucked up sanding the doors on the first few and they don't sit flush. His solution , sand it down yourself.

Mine is in the current batch so it should have the right buttons, more epoxy, and the fuse--I'm hopeful that it will be solid.

 

[PossumMD]

Ryan refusing to fix his own faulty product and having the consumer to it. Also him not taking any responsibility for bad sourcing.

Also he fucked up sanding the doors on the first few and they don't sit flush. His solution , sand it down yourself.

I'm also flabbergasted that he doesn't think a failure rate of 20% is an issue. Sure, it's only 2. But they've both failed quickly, and it could've been mitigated by not rushing. "A delayed product can still be good, a rushed product is always bad" or whatever the exact quote from the Nintendo. It's almost like he didn't bother to test the replacement buttons (I say "almost like" but only cos I can't prove the very likely "they weren't tested at all").

Really, this device should've been sold as a beta to test the heater etc for the bigger 4Mi run, especially since it appears that that's what's happening.

Mine is in the current batch so it should have the right buttons, more epoxy, and the fuse--I'm hopeful that it will be solid.

I feel you shouldn't have to be hopeful that your device will be solid. Sure, hope that it performs the way you want etc, but you shouldn't have to hope that it'll be put together well/right.

 

[Yoosh]

It's been a chaotic few days, I appreciate all the support from the community. Thanks to everyone who reached out. Ryan posted this:

Unfortunately, Ryan has gone off the rails and people have been warning me that he's planning on doxxing me further. His latest post has "Kill Ryan" written across my profile. I would never say "kill ryan" and I doubt anyone on FC ever has. He's also making fun of my dog being terminally ill (which was the emergency that Ryan allowed me to take time off for but then changed his mind). I've never dealt with someone trying to doxx me so I'll take any advice I can get lol. He messaged me today and is threatening to 'blow me out' if I don't recant my FC statements.

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The fact that you have to register on his forum before you can see his posts is so distasteful. Everyone, including Ryan, can read FC posts even if they don't have an account or are banned. But to view Ryan's 'continuous improvement' you have to give him your info. At the very least make the posts visible to all.

 

[Spider-420]

Dude seems like a clown. His stuff looks jank all fuck for what he’s charging.

 

[Andreaerdna]

I am sorry for you @Yoosh. I can only suggest you to take legal advice
@oddjobold I hope you will not forward anymore words by that person, it is not fair at all to spread lies and fucking manipulations.
there is a reason for he is banned from here and there is another forum for anyone who wants to support him and his stuff, keep his shit there would “be nice”

fuck cyberbullying

 

[oddjobold]

I am sorry for you @Yoosh. I can only suggest you to take legal advice
@oddjobold I hope you will not forward anymore words by that person, it is not fair at all to spread lies and fucking manipulations.
there is a reason for he is banned from here and there is another forum for anyone who wants to support him and his stuff, keep his shit there would “be nice”

fuck cyberbullying

I feel bullyed by this post.

I. E - Pressured in to doing something i dont want to do by others on the internet.

I need a sit down.

 

[DeadRabb1t]

I feel bullyed by this post.

I. E - Pressured in to doing something i dont want to do by others on the internet.

I need a sit down.

Technically they are asking you to stop doing something not to actually requesting you do something.

You posting Ryan's words on here circumvents his ban, as the point of that I would think would be to stop Ryan's words being posted on here.

I dunno maybe it's some 4d chess game I don't understand but I personally feel that asking you not to do something isn't particularly bullying, especially when what you are doing is as I said above getting around the ban for Ryan.

Anyhow hope the sit down helps

 

[oddjobold]

I am sorry for you @Yoosh. I can only suggest you to take legal advice
@oddjobold I hope you will not forward anymore words by that person, it is not fair at all to spread lies and fucking manipulations.
there is a reason for he is banned from here and there is another forum for anyone who wants to support him and his stuff, keep his shit there would “be nice”

fuck cyberbullying

Technically they are asking you to stop doing something not to actually requesting you do something.

You posting Ryan's words on here circumvents his ban, as the point of that I would think would be to stop Ryan's words being posted on here.

I dunno maybe it's some 4d chess game I don't understand but I personally feel that asking you not to do something isn't particularly bullying, especially when what you are doing is as I said above getting around the ban for Ryan.

Anyhow hope the sit down helps

Thanks for your advise everyone. I have reached out to an Admin regarding passing information on from Ryan and will abide by their decision.

Not sure if he will be giving me anything else to pass on or not, but lets get things cleared up once and for all.

P. S. A sit down always helps.

 

[vapviking]

Imo, the mods let this thread run fully off the rails a long time ago.

Are the rules out the window about off-topic, product safety, company and personal bashing and flaming?

I think it is extreme poor judgement to put up something inflamatory from another source, as yoosh did.
And then some finger pointing at a guy about shilling for Ryan, simply for posting some words?

This is not the same FC I've appeciated so much over the years, it's flamers haters and drama.

I call Bullshit.

 

[Grass Yes]

I'm locking this thread temporarily to cool everything down.

Don't forget to Be Nice, everybody.

 

[vapviking]

Anyone follow the IG?
I don't, but I'm wondering if we know anything about status of the pending 'last' batch of 2ZM's?

 

[coolbreeze]

Anyone follow the IG?
I don't, but I'm wondering if we know anything about status of the pending 'last' batch of 2ZM's?

I don't, but he emailed me a week or so ago that it would be two or three weeks while he adds a fuse and also gets those and buttons out to people from the earlier rounds.

 

[coolbreeze]

Anyone follow the IG?
I don't, but I'm wondering if we know anything about status of the pending 'last' batch of 2ZM's?

He posted yesterday that he was working on them now and "2ZMs coming next week!"