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What are the benefits of convection vs. conduction?

Discussion in 'Ask FC' started by MauiWowee, Jan 20, 2009.

  1. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    Is that to say that saying one is better than the other than that is expressing one's opinion?

    modnote from stickstones: if you are trying to build a case here i am shuttin her down.
  2. Buildozer

    Buildozer Well-Known Member

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    since they both do work.. and the operator plays a big part, it's not a matter of better.. it's a matter of what do you want. i want convection most always.. but i'll always have a LB for its unique hybrid high(that's what i call it).. gotta switch things up.. as far as efficiency.. the LB is very efficient i feel.. but convection is more satisfying to me.. you are right about it not being inferior but a lot of opinions might says so... and that's ok.. you know whats going on
  3. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

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    Can you provide EVIDENCE to support the contrary? :lol:

    This.
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  4. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    this kind of plays along the lines of something i have been comtemplating a lot lately, and that is that a lot of us regulars on this forum have become vapor snobs...I know I have. most of the world falls in love with a vape because it gets them lifted when they want where they want. I get hyper critical about issues like efficiency, taste, potency, stealth, etc. Go talk to your average head shop employee and you'll find out none of their customers think like us.

    So, as to this topic. I find conduction superior in heat up time at the moment (but I think technology will allow convection to catch up), and is better at quickly getting the full spectrum of effects. But I prefer convection for taste, efficiency, and control of effect (being able to vape low at first and higher later). Convection vapes are also easier to use and have a lower learning curve.
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  5. Stu

    Stu Maconheiro Staff Member

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    Says the guy who has never tried a T1. :lol:

    :peace:
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  6. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    I think the best comparison is the Gnome and a freebase pipe (just a simple tube of glass).

    They are most similar, so the best comparison can be drawn between them, they only differ in the conduction/convection aspect.
  7. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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    Guilty...I have no comeback!

    You know, conduction is only used in portables as a concession to size and battery needs. If it were so great, where are all the conduction desktop models?
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  8. Buildozer

    Buildozer Well-Known Member

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    very true sticks.. lol i'm imagining a bomb conduction desktop..
    convection is more luxurious vapor.. and i like that.. i like my conduction better from a distance ha.

    i still use the LB now n then when i need something different.. but its most all convection in my routine.
  9. luchiano

    luchiano Well-Known Member

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    To me, convection is better because I have less of a chance of burning my herb, while getting more actives extracted quicker. If I inhale real slow, more actives get released in a much quicker time, due to more hot air coming into contact with the air. With conduction a lot of the heat get's absorbed onto the herb touching heating element, allowing uneven heating. It isn't as quick at extraction for this same reason.

    This really depends on the type of conduction vaporizer also, because the conduction vaporizers that use just a solid heating element, like the fish bowl types, are the worse type of conduction vaporizers. The better types are the vaporizers that have a porous screen, such as the mflb, which allows you to do some convection also. Also the way the mflb is designed it allows the hot air to surround the herb, if loaded, and inhaled at a correct speed, allowing for a quicker extraction then pure conduction vaporizers.

    You can also be more precise in the temperature you want, whereas with conduction this is very hard due to uneven heating.
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  10. CentiZen

    CentiZen Evil Genius in Training Accessory Maker

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    Like others have said, it's just personal preference. I find the vapor cleaner and far less harsh on convection vaporizer and find that conduction vapor makes me very sleepy.
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  11. RUDE BOY

    RUDE BOY Space is the Place

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    I use a no2 and a wispr alot both seem to be mainly conduction with both I also seem to be able to extract max active meds. yeah the taste from the wispr is not so great from the 3rd hit on or so. but I can get medicated in 5 minutes. the no2 gives great taste on low temps and you can turn up the heat
    for a full extraction and quick session. I like convection vapes also imo its how you use what the vape gives you to work with. I do like this thread we can all have a little different take on the topic but we
    all seem to Know how to get vake'd ! SEEEE YA
  12. ghostslinger

    ghostslinger Member

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    Funny, I was thinking about this an hour ago.

    Evidence is going to be hard to come by (at least scientific evidence). However, I like your idea of the Gnome vs. pipe.

    Some questions I'd be curious about:

    Are the heat-up times the same?
    -a lighter flame directly applied to glass vs heated air (I don't think there can be an equal heat-up time?)
    -how does one control the flame in the environment? (is this real world testing or theoretical?)

    How are we defining superior or inferior?
    -most actives?
    -most "taste"
    -most efficiency?

    Are there strain-dependent factors?

    How is the material being prepared?

    **MODS**
    Please delete first post (accidentally posted it before finishing and thought I was editing it)
  13. loadthetrenchdawg

    loadthetrenchdawg Well-Known Member

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    I'd say the main pro for Convection is controlled heating. Conduction=Oven Convection=heat Gun. time and a place for both I suppose.
  14. AdmiralAlpacha

    AdmiralAlpacha Well-Known Member

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    I won't claim I have a whole lot of experience when comparing the two but...

    I feel as if stirring would be much more crucial with conduction in order to get sufficient efficiency.

    Also, the only conduction I have really dealt with is the partial conduction that happens with the MFLB, I felt as if my throat got more irritated quicker, however this could easily have been because it was my first experience with vaping at the time.

    Other than that, vapor is vapor in my book, temperature and source may vary, but if it contains the active ingredients without the undesirables from combustion.
  15. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

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    The LB is a primarily conduction unit.
  16. vorrange

    vorrange Well-Known Member

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    OO, conduction kills favour prematurely and is harder to achieve an even roasting. Plus, it's not as good when you want to play with clouds.

    OTOH, it gives you a more quick kick because of the X-factor you talk about, and i agree.

    But, in the end, as sticks mentioned, we are vapor snobs, at least i am.. and i prefer to keep the flavour longer than to have a quick kick in the brain.

    It's all about what you want coupled with what your hitting technique can provide you.
  17. Sonics420

    Sonics420 Well-Known Member

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    I get high off both, maybe even more off convection [with cera LL]

    My Inhalaters and Cera are wayyy better than my ex-Pax, which is conduction.. I am a fan of convection, no stirring is required, even roasting and the flavor stays for a longer. Since I sold my pax I havent tasted burnt pop corn in a while :lol:

    Also conduction was annoying because when you wanted to stop hitting and turn it off [example PAX], vapor would still produce, so you'd have to take another few hits to clear whats left.
  18. marvil701

    marvil701 Member

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    Convection implies hot air circling around the herb which extracts the ingredients more evenly. However, it will only be 100% convection, if the material on which your herb is resting (the "container") has a very low specific heat capacity. This should be obvious: before the hot air reaches the herb, it will also pass the container, thus heating it up. If this happens too quickly (such as with metal), there will be some degree of conduction.

    Conduction means that the heat transfer is by direct contact between two materials, in this case the container and the herb. However, where there is any kind of heat dissipation, there will also be some degree of thermal radiation, which means that the air surrounding the her and container will also heat up. This means that there will also be a degree of convection.
    In the case of vaporizers, conduction especially would imply a greater amount of thermal radiation than in an idealised convection-only vaporizer. Thermal radiation (think microwaves) should also cause a slight portion of the vaporization effect. This (aside from people being used to getting heavy hits from smoking) is probably why most people can live with some degree of conduction.

    Of course you could probably construct a mainly conduction vaporizer, which would heat up the herb as evenly as possible. But this would require the container to be some kind of voluminous mesh, which makes it impractical for anything (save very thoroughly grinded, almost dusty, material). This is also the reason why the folks who designed the MFLB use a mesh as their container.

    And there is also the air drag intensity/duration which has to be taken into account.

    I think you could compare both effects to sitting in a sauna (mainly convection) and sitting on a hot stove (mainly conduction). Which would you prefer?
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  19. pakalolo

    pakalolo RoboMod v3.17 (ticking) Staff Member

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    I think most of you are completely missing the point. You're giving opinions about why you prefer one or the other. What OO asked for was evidence that one was superior to the other. Mind you, since OO supports the null hypothesis I think this is what he expected.
  20. hoptimum

    hoptimum Well-Known Member

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    Both will do the job. With convection, you have more control of temperature. With conduction its easier to take a fast one hit due to the quicker heat up and cool down times. In a practical sense, there just seems to be many more convection than conduction vaporizers available.
  21. Buildozer

    Buildozer Well-Known Member

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    i think its too subjective to say.. and i don't have evidence.. but i'll give it another shot..
    it might not be the best example.. but i'll compare a fast cooked high flame burger, to a slow cooked med-low flame burger.. they are both cooked burgers.. one was cooked at more of a distance.. and slower.. now is the high-flame fast-cooked one COOKED inferior?? yes IMO hah... now that is not to say that no one that eats it(including me) will like it ok.. but not many people will rave about it OVER the slow cooked one.. and more people will talk down on it by comparison.. i'd have to assume.. ha this sounds familiar..
    if you ate both, would you call one inferior to the other?? me.. if i had no choice i'd eat it either way and be happy.. but having the luxury of choice i'd end up picking one over the other, every time. to each their own

    i think most every one here would agree that its up to you since they both work.. since it would be very hard for me to say that convection is inferior, it's easy for me to say IMO it is better. sorry for the lack of evidence, i'm not a scientist.. ill end w/ this quote, apply it however
  22. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    Material similarly prepared by grinding.
    Same strain.
    Heating time is equal, that is less dependent on conduction, more dependent on the heat exchanging material's thermal conductance properties, which is the same. Flame is applied to glass in both instances.

    Flame can be controlled but making a mounted station which keeps the flame a constant distance from the tube.

    As far as factors, you'd have to ask the people claiming they are different, I have no such claim to that effect.
  23. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

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    Spoil sport.

    This is the correct answer.
  24. Nosferatu

    Nosferatu Well-Known Member

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    So are the Cloud and LSV both convection?
  25. kingofnull

    kingofnull ace

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    Yes.

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