Vapor Path Restriction

Seek

Apprentice Daydreamer
Wow, this thread is full of vape physics! It needs to progress further.
Now I know why there is less drag in my Cloud if pulling backwards. I found that insane. Why the hell is there less drag this way,, I'm pulling through the same tube!
My Cloud has smaller holes on top. Damn, it should be at least the bottom holes being smaller, the Cloud is supposed to be sucked from top.
 

luchiano

Well-Known Member
Wow, this thread is full of vape physics! It needs to progress further.
Now I know why there is less drag in my Cloud if pulling backwards. I found that insane. Why the hell is there less drag this way,, I'm pulling through the same tube!
My Cloud has smaller holes on top. Damn, it should be at least the bottom holes being smaller, the Cloud is supposed to be sucked from top.
I think the reason they didn't do that is because it may cause the hit to be too long due to so much restriction, and the purpose of the vapexhale is to give a bong like experience for "vaporist". You need the holes on top to be smaller so the air will have more time to heat up as it goes along the bamboo. It may be good if they created multiple holes, like the fritted disks that vapehead.com posted in his link. This will allow enough air to go through, while still having enough restriction to allow the air to heat up real fast, to give quick extraction, and thick vapors.

This has me thinking, I wonder if the vapexhale makers could make an accessory made of glass that is like a fritted disk, but small enough to put into the bottom of the bamboo to enable people to change the thickness, and effect of their vapor, by using it or removing it. Also, instead of a plain flat, round shape, they can make it with a V shape like the omicron tip Buildozer used. The only thing is it will be hard to keep an accurate temperature of the air, and if you use a high temperature, you may cause combustion.
 

filteredhead

Well-Known Member
BTW nice tests filteredhead!! love all the pics and vids.. i'm wondering though, what temp are you using.. you should try upping the temp.. and try flipping the omicron tip the other way.. flipping the tip changed a lot on my setup.. i was playin w/ restricting an EQ the other day.. it was super rigged up ha.. things didn't go so well for me though.. i rigged a new restriction.. because i didnt have another omicron tip.. and it was too restricted..
Thanks Buildozer and I like your setup btw. Really appreciate you doing more tests and sharing with us here. If i understood correctly the lesser restriction resulted in lighter abv and more energy/head high dominant whereas more restriction resulted in darker abv with more body high effects, did I get that right? I was playing with an increased restriction size of about 3.5mm a few days ago and it seemed like the abv was lighter compared to the hits with 2mm restriction, which seems like your findings as well.

To answer your question about temp, I ran my EQ at 356f/180c since its heater sits closer to the herb in the glass adapter (versus stock cyclone/elbow). Below are a couple of pictures of the abv for the above 4 hits, starting with hit 1 on the far left thru hit 4 on the far right.
Ti6xN8D.jpg
AdpnEcR.jpg
 

ShadowVape

Vrip CSR
Manufacturer
Props to whoever started this thread! VapeHead told me to check it and I just finished reading through all the posts to see where the community took it before posting. Took me all weekend to squeeze in a session here and there to get through it and I'm stoked I took the time. Really good shit indeed I'm sort of feeling less alone in the world knowing that there are others out there as obsessed with affecting the ultimate inhalation as I am. My wife will be thrilled to know she really will be!

This thread should be titled something like "Flow-Form Physics and Rate of Thermal Equilibrium in PhytoInhalation" because that it is what you're playing with and discussing. It is the heart of the matter it really is...

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Venturi.gif

If you check the above Wiki animated image of a venturi effect the radiant thermal accumulation effect of a restriction in a convective air flow or vapor path relative to the material is intuitive. Now imagine the output side not opening back up again immediatly, but rather remaining constricted as in some components of vaporizers. It's important to remember in discussing the thermal accumulation resulting from a restriction in either the convective air flow or the post extraction vapor flow that it is always relative to the thermal nature of the material and the amount of thermal mass of that material present. Metal is collective and will heat up beyond thermal equilibrium and fairly quickly, but usually exists immediate to vaporizer extraction chambers in only very small thermal masses. If the most economical heat is the goal, i.e. for a battery operated portable in the smallest form function possible then metal extraction chambers make all the sense in the world --- it just sucks that metal is the wrong polarity for optimal terpene (flavor) expression. Glass is really a poor insulator so will heat up only to thermal equilibrium in a vaporizing context, but usually exists as more thermal mass in the system, i.e. VapeXhale, Vrip, Verdamper so will heat up slower and cool down slower --- it's more thermally stable in this context. Better for larger/longer pulls without significant reductions in the apparant extraction temperature.

In experimenting with glass screens (two sizes two different locations one lower and one upper in the chamber) that have approximately a 2mm center hole circled by six 2mm wide x 2.5mm long ovals (slightly elongated same 2mm circles) compared to stainless screens of various finer meshes that we've used for years I've found that there is a significantly greater thermal accumulation with the glass screens even though as discussed glass is a poor insulator and metal conductive. It's the thermal mass of the glass (the chamber itself and glass screen), and the shape of our chamber that gives you a much larger sequential venturi within approximately the middle of which just before it restricts is the glass screen and its seven micro venturies that take the chamber to thermal equilibrium much faster with everything else being the same with a stainless screen. And it does so with LESS resistance.

Does it get me medicated faster or taste better because I can get a better hit this way? "Better hit" defined as broader spectrum (lower temp flavor and higher temp actives in the same inhalations) and max density whilst remaining clean and aromatically dense....Blue.

YUP.

https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19050584/Vrip/Vripw:lowerglassscreen.jpg
https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/19050584/Vrip/Vripw:upperglassscreen.jpg
 

nopartofme

Over the falls, in a barrel
Great post! I just learned a lot more about what's going on in my Cera LL cart, extrapolating from your comments on glass to the properties of zirconia ceramic.

Fascinating stuff, thanks.
 
nopartofme,

ShadowVape

Vrip CSR
Manufacturer
Right on glad to be able to contribute. The back to back Mango-Lime Haze Vrips might have energized the session admittedly.....but again, the subject matter of this thread is dead-on IMHO if getting to the heart of the matter of vapor extraction/delivery quality is the goal and I know it's always been my goal so I'm excited to see the discourse.

The only other vaporizer besides my Vrip set-ups I use regularly is a ThermoVape w/ a Vrip glass adaptor precisely because I'm admittedly a materials (read: FLAVOR) snob and I like water/ice conditioning whenever possible --- once you've gone all glass it's hard to accept any other materials approach --- except Zirconium!!! The fact that ThermoVape uses a true medical device compliant material like Zirconium is a testament to their commitment to the highest quality at any cost approach and Vrip is stoked to have such a greart company local to us and extremely excited about the current and future prospects of their technologies. Quartz would be the only other material with similar purity and thermal and polarity qualities as glass if vapor quality (read: FLAVOR) is the focus. Of course, the shape and size of the covective air flow path, extraction chamber, and post-extraction vapor path are of paramount importance for reasons beyond thermal accumulation (see: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bernoulli's_principle and specifically section 1.2), but perhaps the thermal accumulation effect is the most important in the vaporizing context as far as what we are perceiving as the inhalers anyway.

I'll add one more thought before I get on with my morning R&D here and that is that while we all call it "vaporizing" we really are creating something much more complex than "vapor" which by definition is a solid or liquid in a gas phase. I posted something along these lines in the Vrip VHW thread but will also do so here as it's important: we are really creating a hybrid gas phase consisting of volatile oils in addition to the liquid and wax components of herbs and many concentrates --- the volatile oils are the magic and they are really neither a solid nor a liquid. This process and the end product is really much more complicated than I think most us tend to acknowledge. UCLA enthnobotanist David Wheeler, inventor of the Volatizer, used the term "volatilization" in addressing the prosecution of his late '90s patent for the volatizer "vaporizer" and in doing so really laid the foundation for a better understanding of just how complex the process and end product of all of our practices really is regardless of what device you're using. Just the reason why a thread like this one should exist on FC.com!
 

poonman

Well-Known Member
Excellent posts ShadowVape ,
Interesting read to say the least .

The Omicron tip is def . producing a venturi effect when inhaling .
Funneling down the vapor thru a pin hole .

Which Thermovape uses Zirconium ? and is it dis-continued now ?
What about using Titanium ? like the Zenpen ....maybe .

tia
 
poonman,

ShadowVape

Vrip CSR
Manufacturer
Thanks Poonman I've probably spent more time thinking about this stuff than most would find "sane" but it's the R&D I really enjoy! Check the CERA --- there is a reason why it is in a class of its own material-wise. Even comes with a titanium option if you're into the Ti....definitely a step further in the medical direction than stainless.
 

Buildozer

Baked & Fried
thanks for joining in ShadowVape i appreciate the input.. sounds like you have a lot to share on the subject.. its definitely an interesting one IMO.. it has been fun experimenting w/ it so far.. i'm happy w/ the results i'm getting.. its effects on the much lighter colored AVB is interesting too.

this is a video filteredhead showed me..
the part i was mostly interested in was started ~2:30 mark. it shows difference in effects of 4 different restriction types..
once i flipped the omicron tip in the whip.. i think my setup was more like the 'venturi nozzle' effect, vs. more of a 'venturi orifice' effect?? and that's why it left me w/ lighter AVB and less resistance?? IDK.. any thoughts on that anyone? all i know is it's working great for me.. not exactly sure how its working though. also, i think the taper on my whip effects things, but i'm not sure how..
 

ShadowVape

Vrip CSR
Manufacturer
It's wild there are so many different variations on how the venturi effect actually affects the flow form and, in the case of convective gas flows, the thermal accumulation --- in turn the actual extraction quality you get to inhale and enjoy.... Really gets you thinking about how to optimize the flow form physics given all the variations possible.

I was just playing with a stack of three glass screens with a 2.0 mm center hole and six 2.5mm slightly ovaled outer holes all slightly offset so the outer holes became more like twisting slots to reduce the flow rate for concentrates. Check the images on the VHW forum if you want to see the melt rate that resulted....effective!

http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/vriptech-heat-wand.282/page-102
 
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