Vapor Path Restriction

[Buildozer]

Vapor Atomization.. something i have had in the back of my mind for ~a few months now...
~a week ago i decided to try a simple experiment w/ atomizing vapor, by restricting the vapor path to a tiny hole.. it seemed to really break the vapor down, and give me the + results i was looking for. i didn't create my own atomizer really.. i just rigged up a test, to help rest my curiosity.. this is how i did it.

i took the glass wand from the vapor bros.. and i put a silicone band on it to use as an 18mm seal for the bubbler. then i took a silicone omicron mouth piece and cut the tip off.. i took the screen out, and stuck the silicone tip down into the whip until it made a seal.. then i put the screen back.

here's a pic of how reduced the vapor path is..

this is how it sits on the bubbler.. and i hold the Vapor Bros in my hand and use it on top like a log vape. pull the whip to clear.. or you would have to fight La Resistance ha. IMO the resistance is no problem while milking the glass.

that's all i did.. not much. i tested it w/ and w/o water.. both were nice... now there was some resistance.. but not enough to be a problem for me. i figure larger volume glass would help cut any resistance down also??
if any one tries an experiment like this i'd be interested to hear about it..

 

[poonman]

interesting ,
I thought it was the process of ' re-heating ' the THC vapor ? before inhaling ?

Explain further , how you are doing that ?
and where is your herb sitting and cooking ?

 

[Buildozer]

interesting ,
I thought it was the process of ' re-heating ' the THC vapor ? before inhaling ?
Explain further , how you are doing that ?
and where is your herb sitting and cooking ?

Atomization, Atomizer Nozzle here's a couple info links.
i breathed fire a couple times and i was told to atomize the fluid.. blow it out in a mist. so that's how i understand it. i'm no scientist.. so i'm unsure if i am actually atomizing the vapor this way.. but it feels like the vapor is night and day smooth, even w/o water, so suspect it is to some degree. i'm not sure whats up w/ the reheating the vapor thing, but i was mostly interested to test the restriction, because it was an easy test.. i was more interested in how the vapor got when it was forced through a tiny hole. i got what i consider positive results. could be better w/ an actual atomizer.. look up pics they're essentially just spray nozzles, that come in all kinds of styles and sizes..

i'm not really sure that reheating it even has anything to do w/ atomization.. it could i guess??? i wouldn't think its necessary though.. besides if you re heated vapor, wouldn't that degrade some THC to CBN??? i don't know, but that's what i figure. unless it was barely heated and only warmed?? even then i don't understand the necessity. i haven't heard a clear explanation on that one yet.

the herb goes where it usually does in the whip.. the pic doesn't have the screen in or herb in there. but that's where it goes.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i do a similar thing with my draw tube. it has seven 0.75mm holes where the vapor leaves the herb vial.

you can just see the holes in the bottom of the tube in this photo:

This particular tube (since broken) only has 4 holes. i have now gone to 7 holes -- with 6 surrounding a center hole -- all 0.75mm (0.029"). the vial only has 4 holes (also 0.75mm). my thought was to try to evacuate air faster than it can come in and (maybe) reducing the pressure in the vial just a smidgeon.

 

[luchiano]

Atomization, Atomizer Nozzle here's a couple info links.
i breathed fire a couple times and i was told to atomize the fluid.. blow it out in a mist. so that's how i understand it. i'm no scientist.. so i'm unsure if i am actually atomizing the vapor this way.. but it feels like the vapor is night and day smooth, even w/o water, so suspect it is to some degree. i'm not sure whats up w/ the reheating the vapor thing, but i was mostly interested to test the restriction, because it was an easy test.. i was more interested in how the vapor got when it was forced through a tiny hole. i got what i consider positive results. could be better w/ an actual atomizer.. look up pics they're essentially just spray nozzles, that come in all kinds of styles and sizes..

i'm not really sure that reheating it even has anything to do w/ atomization.. it could i guess??? i wouldn't think its necessary though.. besides if you re heated vapor, wouldn't that degrade some THC to CBN??? i don't know, but that's what i figure. unless it was barely heated and only warmed?? even then i don't understand the necessity. i haven't heard a clear explanation on that one yet.

the herb goes where it usually does in the whip.. the pic doesn't have the screen in or herb in there. but that's where it goes.

What I think is happening is you are allowing more vapor to cool down quicker by thinning it out with restriction, then if you were to leave it in one big mass. In theory it should clog quickly due to being cooled down so much or you will get a lot of resin on the area near the restriction. Has this happened yet?

Anyway, nice to see people try something different.

 

[Buildozer]

What I think is happening is you are allowing more vapor to cool down quicker by thinning it out with restriction, then if you were to leave it in one big mass. In theory it should clog quickly due to being cooled down so much or you will get a lot of resin on the area near the restriction. Has this happened yet?
Anyway, nice to see people try something different.

could be.. it makes sense, especially since that omicron tip is no atomizer.. the restriction is totally clear still. it seems like the vapor is warm enough to keep it clear.. combined w/ the air flow at that area, the resin drains out of the way... iv'e been using it for about a week like this.. i'm sure i'd take the whip apart and clean everything, before that restriction ever almost got a chance to clog. i feel like it would take a good while for it to clog.
whether it atomizes or not, i feel noticeably more medicated when using it than when not..

i was thinking about the air flow at the restriction.. wouldn't the air pressure/speed increase a lot at the restriction?? if so, i would expect the air to be smashing through w/ higher force.. it could be that's all you really need to atomize the vapor??

 

[nopartofme]

This reminds me of the Cera mouthpiece. I believe a similar effect there is what makes its vapor so cool and pleasant. The vapor there is forced through four small channels at the top of the bowl as seen in these stills from my YouTube video:




Vapor condensation and particulates do build up in these pathways, but in the case of the ceramic it's very easy to clean and collect so I see it as an added benefit.

 

[luchiano]

could be.. it makes sense, especially since that omicron tip is no atomizer.. the restriction is totally clear still. it seems like the vapor is warm enough to keep it clear.. combined w/ the air flow at that area, the resin drains out of the way... iv'e been using it for about a week like this.. i'm sure i'd take the whip apart and clean everything, before that restriction ever almost got a chance to clog. i feel like it would take a good while for it to clog.
whether it atomizes or not, i feel noticeably more medicated when using it than when not..

i was thinking about the air flow at the restriction.. wouldn't the air pressure/speed increase a lot at the restriction?? if so, i would expect the air to be smashing through w/ higher force.. it could be that's all you really need to atomize the vapor??

Yeah, I think that is all that is happening.

I think using an atomizer to break down things smaller applies more to liquids than vapor. Being that vapor is already a gas, you would need something more effective than a small hole as restriction, to break it down even smaller.

What I really think is going on in your case, is the restriction is causing you to slow down the air movement more then normal, and this allows more hot air to extract the actives form the herb. This is probably why you feel the effects more. Being that ultra slow inhales allow more actives to be released when using analogue vaporizers(since they don't have good heated air control) I would think anything that slows down the air movement is better then not having it, if you don't like such slow inhales.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

Being that vapor is already a gas

oh, man, now i'm getting really confused. studying wiki on vapor and gas and critical point. and i thought there were droplets in the vapor -- due to the injected air? -- but for sure the vapor is bouncing between liquid and vapor state, so the finer holes in the air flow could be breaking up the larger condensing globs, since the vapor is below the critical point. .... but should be farther away from the heater, where the condensation is happening.

 

[luchiano]

oh, man, now i'm getting really confused. studying wiki on vapor and gas and critical point. and i thought there were droplets in the vapor -- due to the injected air? -- but for sure the vapor is bouncing between liquid and vapor state, so the finer holes in the air flow could be breaking up the larger condensing globs, since the vapor is below the critical point. .... but should be farther away from the heater, where the condensation is happening.

Yeah, you are right. I should have been more specific. When I state vapor is a gas, I mean it's in a gas state, not that it is naturally a gas, such as something like oxygen.

I think the small hole restriction isn't going to make a major difference especially if the vapor is hot or close to the heater, but like you stated it may help where things are more cooler.

But this brings another question. Is it necessary to have this restriction ALL of the time, or when the vapor is thick?. Also, if the vapor is thick, wouldn't putting into some type of restriction to cool it off, cause it to thicken even more due to more vapor being exposed to cool air, thus making it harder to be absorbed into the lungs?.

 

[Buildozer]

Yeah, I think that is all that is happening.
I think using an atomizer to break down things smaller applies more to liquids than vapor. Being that vapor is already a gas, you would need something more effective than a small hole as restriction, to break it down even smaller.
What I really think is going on in your case, is the restriction is causing you to slow down the air movement more then normal, and this allows more hot air to extract the actives form the herb. This is probably why you feel the effects more. Being that ultra slow inhales allow more actives to be released when using analogue vaporizers(since they don't have good heated air control) I would think anything that slows down the air movement is better then not having it, if you don't like such slow inhales.

ya that makes sense.. that all seems like a good thing.. ya that restriction is like an air flow regulator.. it keeps things at one speed more or less. it's interesting how it effects things.
the smoothness has been really nice.. i took the restriction out one day, to see what i thought, and it seemed so much more harsh i ended up putting it back again. also i have been getting really good flavor out of it like this now.. i think i was just loading too much and it was killing the flavor off faster than the bowl. but now i'm putting in ~.1 at most, instead of ~.3 area.
any thoughts on what it might take to atomize the vapor?

 

[luchiano]

ya that makes sense.. that all seems like a good thing.. ya that restriction is like an air flow regulator.. it keeps things at one speed more or less. it's interesting how it effects things.
the smoothness has been really nice.. i took the restriction out one day, to see what i thought, and it seemed so much more harsh i ended up putting it back again. also i have been getting really good flavor out of it like this now.. i think i was just loading too much and it was killing the flavor off faster than the bowl. but now i'm putting in ~.1 at most, instead of ~.3 area.
any thoughts on what it might take to atomize the vapor?

I really don't know, because if you break down the vapor more it will cool off faster, resulting in a more thicker vapor, which will be harder to absorb a lot of the vapor, and you will waste a lot. It will have much more flavor though, since you are puffing up the vapor, and allowing it to touch the receptors in your mouth, and olfactory system.

If you want more absorption, one trick you can do is a SLOW inhale, and when I state slow, I mean to the point where the only movement on your body is your jaw opening SLOWLY. Do this for 10-20 seconds, until the vapor has filled your mouth. Then pull the wand away from the heater, and take a smooth deep inhale for around 5-10 seconds, with the whip still attached to your lips. Exhale as slow as you can through your nose, as this allows more absorption of vapor that the lungs may have not extracted from the air, and it gives more flavor since most of the things we taste is really our nose experiencing these flavors, not necessarily the mouth.

This will allow you to get all the flavor that a thick, cool, vapor gives, while still allowing a high extraction, and absorption, that a real slow inhale will give. If you do it right, you would be shocked at how potent the effects are. Make sure you drink some water to help keep your mouth from getting dry, and allowing you to get more flavor, and keep the vapor cool.

 

[Buildozer]

I really don't know, because if you break down the vapor more it will cool off faster, resulting in a more thicker vapor, which will be harder to absorb a lot of the vapor, and you will waste a lot. It will have much more flavor though, since you are puffing up the vapor, and allowing it to touch the receptors in your mouth, and olfactory system.

If you want more absorption, one trick you can do is a SLOW inhale, and when I state slow, I mean to the point where the only movement on your body is your jaw opening SLOWLY. Do this for 10-20 seconds, until the vapor has filled your mouth. Then pull the wand away from the heater, and take a smooth deep inhale for around 5-10 seconds, with the whip still attached to your lips. This will allow you to get all the flavor that a thick, cool, vapor gives, while still allowing a high extraction, and absorption, that a real slow inhale will give. If you do it right, you would be shocked at how potent the effects are. Make sure you drink some water to help keep your mouth from getting dry, and allowing you to get more flavor, and keep the vapor cool.

i guess that's just the price you gotta pay for really smooth vapor.. doesn't seem to be a way around that.. it seems worth it to me.. i'm gonna take it out again next time i have to clean the screen and see what i think again. ill give a slow draw a try.. but i try to not long slow draw too much on the VB.. that's how i always combust w/ it.

 

[luchiano]

i guess that's just the price you gotta pay for really smooth vapor.. doesn't seem to be a way around that.. it seems worth it to me.. i'm gonna take it out again next time i have to clean the screen and see what i think again. ill give a slow draw a try.. but i try to not long slow draw too much on the VB.. that's how i always combust w/ it.

Just lower the temperature. With vaporizers like the VB, the slower you inhale the lower you want the knob to be.

Also, I don't know if you read the edit of my last post but, make sure you exhale slowly through the nose for efficient absorption, and maximum flavor.

 

[Abysmal Vapor]

I always wanted to try vapir magnetic filters with vapor .... Now i search i find similar tech in some e-cig filters . http://www.vapornation.com/vapir-magnetic-cigarette-filter.html

The Vapir Magnetic Filter System features a revolutionary row of magnets that through reverse polarity are able to capture 50% more of the harmful toxins associated with combustion.
I wonder if it also can benefit concentrate consumption, which is most of oftently bound with imputiry of solvents and waxes issues |
There is even a bullet proof design lol.. http://www.ecigarettesalesweb.com/c...f-glass-magnetic-recycling-filter-system.html

These looks interesting too http://www.ecigarettesalesweb.com/cigarette-holder-recycling-filter-tar-nicotine-tobacco.html
http://www.ecigarettesalesweb.com/cigarette-filter-holder-reusable-tobacco-smoke-tar.htmlhttp://www.ecigarettesalesweb.com/cigarette-holder-smoker-nicotine-tar-tobacco-filter.html

 

[Frederick McGuire]

^^^
Is there any science behind that magnetic filter?

Anything that uses magnets sets my bullshit detector off hardcore, but if it actually works, it'd be cool

I checked out the vapornation link, and I could swear I saw it has activated carbon in it.
My money would be on that doing all the filtering, and the magnets being an excuse to up the price...

 

[djonkoman]

If you want more absorption, one trick you can do is a SLOW inhale, and when I state slow, I mean to the point where the only movement on your body is your jaw opening SLOWLY. Do this for 10-20 seconds, until the vapor has filled your mouth. Then pull the wand away from the heater, and take a smooth deep inhale for around 5-10 seconds, with the whip still attached to your lips. Exhale as slow as you can through your nose, as this allows more absorption of vapor that the lungs may have not extracted from the air, and it gives more flavor since most of the things we taste is really our nose experiencing these flavors, not necessarily the mouth.

how do you fill (just) your mouth with vapor? I've often read and heard that mentioned, also with smoke, but I've never been able to do that, if I inhale all required power for the air-intaker comes from my diaphragm or ribmuscles, I can focus on belly or stomach, but I've never been able to use my mouth to collect it, all vapor and smoke just goes straight to my lungs and only passes trough my mouth. I'm just kind of curious how it's possible to collect it ion you mouth, since everytime I hear it it sounds so easy, yet it isn't

 

[Hippie Dickie]

how do you fill (just) your mouth with vapor?

like using a straw to drink a milkshake/smoothy -- fill the mouth and then swallow - or inhale in the vapor case.

 

[djonkoman]

been making virtual straw-sucks etc for a few minutes now, but whatever I try, the driving force stiill is coming from my lungs, and I automatically make my mouth smaller so there isn't much room to collect, so it still ends up going almost straight to my lungs

 

[Hippie Dickie]

i just inhale verrrry slooooowly, myself - and finish with just air.

 

[luchiano]

been making virtual straw-sucks etc for a few minutes now, but whatever I try, the driving force stiill is coming from my lungs, and I automatically make my mouth smaller so there isn't much room to collect, so it still ends up going almost straight to my lungs

Maybe the back of your tongue isn't blocking your airways, and this is why it's activating your lungs. You can try to raise your tongue, to the point it is touching the roof of your mouth, and then do the inhale. Have you ever seen someone smoke a cigar, hold it in their mouth, then exhale it out without ever inhaling it?. That is "mouth smoking"

IDK, maybe someone else can give a better direction on how to do it. Keep trying, you will eventually get it.

 

[Buildozer]

yesterday i was over at Stu's and we did a test to see the vapor spray pattern from the omicron tip.. since i had not checked it yet.. then we compared it to the normal vapor spray pattern.. just to be clear.. this is an omicron tip, it's no atomizer nozzle.. this is just an atomization experiment... here is the video..

cloud + omicron tip test..

wasted vapor in the name of science..

dry cloud/devastator rip w/ the omicron tip..

the rips from the omicron tip are soo smooth that it almost feels like you have lungs full of air.. IMO.. i feel i get more deeply medicated from using it.. especially when i hold it in.. it is kind of subtle though.. but i notice i vape less bowls through out the day w/ it than w/o.. maybe its just a placebo effect?? i encourage any one interested to rig up an experiment and tell me what you think.. based more on the experience than speculation.

i felt pretty much no resistance testing this w/ the cloud.

 

[Stu]

i felt pretty much no resistance testing this w/ the cloud.

This was the strangest part for me. The difference in resistance is hardly noticeable even though all the vapor is shooting through a ~2mm hole.

 

[Tweek]

Next time you guys test, hotbox...no wasted vapor.

 

[poonman]

Now I'm intrigued .
So just by funneling it down to a pin stream vapor , is basically what you guys tested .
I gonna try to squeeze my Omicron tip on the end of the Solo stem and give it a try .
So far it fits in easily inverted , but I have to fold it in the funnel down size way .
Gonna get some O-rings to give it a better seal .....