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Vapman

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by spyder, Jul 3, 2008.

  1. OF

    OF Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    18,287
    Location:
    Left Coast
    Potatoes are also traditional. But you end up hating the British and trying to speak Gaelic if you do it too much. And wearing green clothes.

    Hopefully cooler heads will prevail, I see this as a couple of dedicated agents trying to make the best call they can, I see no real attack on our vapes. Yet.

    It occurs to me you can drip some 'juice' into your handy hair dryer and make lots of vapor? Perhaps they should be banned...... Mustn't play favorites you know.

    OF
     
    boon, vapman, hujdimislav and 2 others like this.
  2. vapman

    vapman Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Switzerland
    I think they know exactly what they are doing! Three parcels getting busted at three different customs in two different countries can't be a coincidence, no way!
    I don't have another choice than turning to the Swiss chamber of commerce, negotiations with customs in two different countries and two different states in Germany is a hamster wheel. My argument is simple and plausible: either all or no vaporizers are banned, definitely not vapman only!

    I hope you guys don't mind if vapman starts a world wide trade war? I am making jokes in a serious situation but crying doesn't help either.

    And if anyone thinks, that it is just a question of declaration, then you have to think again. Imagine, it would be a question of labeling your own product only, the whole new law could be bypassed with the right words and that is very unlikely. I only wish it would be as easy as that.

    I am waiting for the answer of the Swiss chamber of commerce, that will be crucial!


    vapman
     
  3. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    But there are no vapes banned in the EU!

    And what do you want from the Swiss chamber of commerce?? EU laws are no matter of the Swiss.

    Sorry, I would like to help you but i can't without the WHOLE convo. So I can't recognize their - right or wrong - argumentation. All you've published here about their decision doesn't make iuridical sense at least.
    Feel free to pm me.
     
  4. gunmetalshark

    gunmetalshark Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    190
    @Hogni

    I think that it relates to this :

    https://diepresse.com/home/wirtschaft/verbraucher/5190869/Urteil-zu-EZigaretten
    https://diepresse.com/home/wirtscha...haft/verbraucher/5190869/index.do&selChannel=

    Because here´s what vapman posted :


    and


    so basically they say that it is actually possible to heat up high enough to vaporize Glycerin (290°C) & PG (188,2°C) and has therfore to be seen as "tobacco product" ....that is NOT the case with most electric powered devices like S&B...but that would also mean that everything that gets or is possible to be heated up by torch (or at least above 290°C) will be illegal (Vapcap i.E. aswell)

    Funny Thing is, this just applies for online sales..they even state if u want to sell...open a shop..lol
    Maybe they next big thing they forbid are teaspoons since they can also get heated up beyond vaporisation temps :D :D :D





    Would that make any sense, there were elections in Austria & Germany not long ago...maybe they are more critical now...?
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    hujdimislav and vapman like this.
  5. vapman

    vapman Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Switzerland is not member of the EU but we have bilateral trade agreements with the EU. Basically, Switzerland has the same trading rights in the EU as the EU in Switzerland. If S&B can sell vaporizers to Switzerland, then we should be allowed to sell vaporizers to the Germany and Austria, simple as that!
    This is where I am putting my finger now, to the spot where it hurts most and these are the trade agreements between Switzerland and the EU. Imagine, Verdampftnochmal in Berlin is still selling vapman online and at the same time, vapman is declared illegal at the German and Austrian customs!:hmm:

    vapman
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    axakal, IAmKrazy2, vapelander and 9 others like this.
  6. vapman

    vapman Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Switzerland
    @gunmetalshark: e-liquids vaporize more or less at the same temperature as any herbs! All vaporizers can vaporize e-liquids, glycerin and pg's are organic substances and not some sort of metals with high melting points. Easy to try out, just add a drop of liquid to your herbs and you can see how well these liquids vaporize at these temperatures.

    vapman
     
  7. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    That's the thing I don't understand. There are prohibitons/restrictions regarding cross-border online trade of e-liquids and e-cigarettes within the EU but not for manufacturers/wholesalers to retailers just between retailers and end customer (distance sales). So it's primarely an issue for your retailers only and for you just if you intend to deliver directely to end customers.
    The EU directive is transferred to national laws by each EU state themselves with different juridical results. It's a bit difficult (especially - so take my pardon in advance - to translate technically jargon for me) and differs from country to country but i can explain it if wished.

    But read this in english as a first overview and check the countries you want to deal with for links for TBC registration
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
  8. vapman

    vapman Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Switzerland
    This makes sense, may be we are not allowed to sell directly to end customers in some countries anymore?
    Why didn't tell us anybody about this? Could you tell me which countries in Europe are affected by this new law? Is it Germany and Austria? What about the States? I think this would be a valuable info for all members and the right place to publish a list of countries, which implemented new tobacco regulations.

    Thank you,

    vapman
     
  9. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    For sure.

    Unknown situation up to now: (EU directive still not transferred to national law)

    - Iceland
    - Croatia
    - Slovenia

    Generally forbidden:

    - Belgia
    - Italia
    - Austria
    - Poland
    - Spain

    Allowed or restricted by TBC (see also link above)

    - Germany
    - Danemark
    - France
    - Ireland
    - Malta
    - The Netherlands
    - Norway
    - Sweden
    - Slovacia
    - Czechia
    - UK

    Delivering to end consumers needs a TBC registration in EACH country you want deliver to before shipment. Otherwise you have to aware a penalty fee. Links for each registration administration you will find in the english link above.

    If your called cancled deliveries were adressed to end consumers you probably have to pay a penalty fee, if they were adressed to retailers a fee wouldn't be right. Cause of it's a new legal situation I would ask for forgiveness. Perhaps it does work - probably not. If you should need a translation to German I' d do so for you.

    If you want to know more just ask.

    Who should tell you about if not your local retailers? ;)
     
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2018
    axakal, KidFated., vapelander and 9 others like this.
  10. splitz

    splitz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    101
    Vapman with Bubblehash to add a little brightness to this page :-)

    Click to play YouTube Video
     
  11. Kozzmozz

    Kozzmozz Infinite realities, infinite possibilities

    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    Belgium
    Any updates on those pesky burocrats @vapman?
     
  12. vapman

    vapman Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Switzerland
    Finally we received an answer from the Swiss administration, telling us to sort things out with the German authorities. Of course, this is no help at all. Last Monday, I wrote an email to the German department of
    health and consumer protection, asking to clarify the confusing situation which is affecting us since weeks.
    It is the department, which wrote the email I published here before. My simple question is: why are our parcels refused while shops in Germany are still selling vapman without having to adjust to the new tobacco law? This simple question seems to be a challenge, as we haven't heard a word since. I decided to wait another few days before I will put more pressure on them.

    Our situation on the German and Austrian market is bad and can't get worse! Nothing left to loose is an another word for freedom and I will use this freedom to the very end, without regard to any losses on the right nor on the left, my word!:nod:

    vapman
     
  13. Kozzmozz

    Kozzmozz Infinite realities, infinite possibilities

    Messages:
    168
    Location:
    Belgium
    We stand by you René, if you wish some help at any point, I'm positive you will get a lot of response.
    Heck, we can even sign some sort of petition :lol:

    Hang in there.
     
  14. vapman

    vapman Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Switzerland
  15. Dynavaper

    Dynavaper Karma Farmer & Dynavap Maniac

    Messages:
    897
    Location:
    Europe
    What a shitty situation! :( Lots of positive vibes to you, my gut feeling tells me that everything will be good in the end. But how unfortunate that you have to go through this, that is not deserved!
     
    axakal, vapman, RUDE BOY and 3 others like this.
  16. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    I don't see any confusing situation of laws. What didn't you get?

    There are two points to pay attention:

    1) Is the VapMan an e-cig or may regulations apply analogue to vapes which are able to use with (trates) liquids? Probably there are internal instructions for German and Austrian customs to apply the regulation analogue to it. You should appeal (Widerspruch) against their decision for a new decision. Even a simple spoon is able to vaporize liquids if heated long enough with a flame so what?

    2) You can send your devices to Germany (not to Austria) after registration with no issues. For sure German retailers can sell their stuff in Germany bc there is no cross-border sale. And Germany is in the EU. How should European customs control parcels from Germany to another EU state? They have to create a "blacklist" of retailers who could cross-border send e-cigs within the EU and check the parcels of them.

    It's not so easy for me to explain the situation in english. If you are speaking German send me a pm or we can call. Then I can expain it to you en detail.
     
    Last edited: Apr 16, 2018
    axakal, IAmKrazy2, vapelander and 5 others like this.
  17. KidFated.

    KidFated. We Don't Even Live Here..

    Messages:
    4,113
    Location:
    The Cold Shoulder
    The vapman is one of those vaporizers that gives that full bodied taste and effect from the vapor. And it feels so damn elegant.
     
    axakal, Modicum, vapelander and 9 others like this.
  18. Whissmu

    Whissmu Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    449
    yeahhh !!

    I have several vapes of butane .. and the vapman is the only one that gets of bad flowers something acceptable on my palate and in my brain :rockon:, the rest of vapes only fulfill their function, the magic of the vapman for me is that it goes beyond and is the king of the discretion par a mi !!
     
    axakal, hujdimislav, Shannock and 9 others like this.
  19. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    626
    i believe the text says it has to have a mouthpiece, but not explicit for inhalation i believe, so that's gonna be a bit tricky :D
    But eg clearly all brass instruments can hit hard with e-liquids and are atm the best bet to trick those customs and get a 'tobacco device' without them knowing...:lol:
    Seriously if patents could be formulated like that there would be only one or two...:uhh:
    @vapman maybe ask the German department of health and consumer protection why they think it's important to look after a few direct sold vapmans out of save materials while other manufacturers sell toxic products that let u inhale teflon(boundless) or silica dust(xvape) - i'd love the hear a response to that from their side, sometimes those bureaucrats believe they are the last moralic institution to save the country, so push that button...
    Maybe it helps if other germans write a similar question to them? - what's the email?
    I have tons of storys with german customs from my german uncle who used to import fashion from all over the world.. - he was accused for insult 7 times, but only 2 times convicted :evil:
    In austria it's not much better... - "I can dispose it for u..." seems to be an international customs suggestion if they have no clue :goon:
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
    vapelander, vapman and gunmetalshark like this.
  20. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    Sorry, but your suggested inquiry is iuridical absolutely irrelevant and so not effective in no way.
    And why should people who are not directely affected by this interpretation of law write that senseless inquiry too? This is a law issue not a poll.
     
    vapman likes this.
  21. btka

    btka Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    1,014
    @vapman I ordered a newvape flowerpot showerhead from usa 5 or 6 months ago to austria.... after waiting 2 or 3 weeks at this time the package was held by austrian custom, I decided to call them... they told me that e-cigs are forbidden to import... I told them it is a aroma therapy device which you are using with herbs... maybe you could declare it as an aromatherapy device... also I would not wright on the packages anything like vape (also vapman and so on...) I am sure they hold my package from newvape in customs because of the name on the package.. because when I called them they did not know waht is in the package.... (normally it is forbidden for them to open the package without your approval... non the less it looked like they opened it after I told them it is a aroma therapy device and no e-cig thing)

    maybe you could tell them that the vapman is not meant for vaporizing (inhaling) but to be used as an aromatherapy device... so to say you put any herb in the vapman and then you put the vapman on the heating station which then will release the oils of the herb in the air... as like candels where you can put essential oil which evaporates in the air... or something like this...
     
    vapman likes this.
  22. Hogni

    Hogni Honi soit qui mal y pense

    Messages:
    2,602
    Location:
    Berlin, Germany
    @vapman 's video broke his neck cause there he told it's also for use of "liquids". You shouldn't get this probs with the FP. Not vaporization itself is the issue but vaporization of liquids (= e-cig). Herb vaporization isn't affected.
     
    vapman likes this.
  23. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    626
    Why not? - it is named "German department of health and consumer protection" after all and i am pretty shure also they don't make the laws, they are not aware of such actual real problems
     
    vapman and OF like this.
  24. vapman

    vapman Well-Known Member Manufacturer

    Messages:
    331
    Location:
    Switzerland
    We have not received an answer from the mentioned department yet, on the 25th I asked again for clarification but it looks like this department got cut off from electricity and they aren't able to answer emails.

    We always did declare vapman as an inhaler or sometimes as a aromatherapy device. As said before, declaration doesn't help, if they think and see, that a device can do tobacco products (leaves, liquids), that's it, that makes it a e-cigarette, whatever declaration is used. They watched our video and saw at the very end, that vapman can do liquids. This exactly, is the point, every vaporizer can do tobacco leaves or it wouldn't be a vaporizer and this is also our question to the department, which is not answering at all!!

    Therefore, it is no use to change the label, they explicitly stated, that the labeling is irrelevant in the question of assignment. They declared our device as a cat, to label it with "dog" doesn't help at all. If it would be that easy, I would not write this post anyway.


    vapman
     
  25. Used2use

    Used2use Sometimes to stupid to become a fool

    Messages:
    626
    another thing is - there are official 'liquid pads' for almost every herb vape avaiable :hmm:

    btw my uncle would have called them and started the conversation like: "So your trainee accidentially hit the update button for the first time on your 10yr old computer or what?" leads to nothing, but would sound really funny in bavarian :lol:
     
    Last edited: May 4, 2018
    vapman likes this.

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