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VapCap Induction Heater for Desktop and in Car Use

Discussion in 'DIY' started by Pipes, Nov 23, 2016.

  1. oddjobold

    oddjobold Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    267
    The more photos of the PSmini i see the more i think it will be very very cool.

    Wondering the streets heating a metal tube with a lighter looks very dodgy. Always paranoid ill walk straight in to law doing it one day.....
     
    AtomicPB, Summer, Pipes and 2 others like this.
  2. rabidnz

    rabidnz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13
    Has anyone found out the ideal amount of coil wraps and diameter to efficiently channel the heat into the base/mid tip and not cook the body or the very tip? Could we use a very small amount of windings and control the input voltage with a pot and transistor? I am completely naive to the physics of induction .
     
  3. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,011
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    I wrap them around a 17mm diameter tube which adds some wraps which I take back off to maintain the 10 turn which it's designed for. Around 4" shorted after re-winding.
    :science:
     
    AtomicPB, Hogni and Vap O matic like this.
  4. rabidnz

    rabidnz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13
    Thank you good sir. How to you ensure even heating of the load without heating the body as 10 turns is quite alot longer than the whole tip? On the Woody it won't be an issue but the M soaks heat down to the mouthpiece pretty well. Without any understanding of induction circuits this may be a silly question , but can we reduce the number of wraps and reduce the input voltage to suit, to get more concentrated heat more specifically where we want it?

    Thanks for all the hard yards you've put into this project!
     
    AtomicPB and Pipes like this.
  5. Vap O matic

    Vap O matic Member

    Messages:
    10

    Howdy! If that thing works... and i know it works!!!:brow:
    Fasten your seat belt! This thing hits like a bomb! :rofl:you should look for extra people who can solder too!:science:
     
    AtomicPB and Pipes like this.
  6. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,011
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    We're talking frequency when playing with coil or capacitor values. The voltage value hasn't much to do with it. At least not for what you're trying to achieve. Insertion depth is the only thing which is easily changed and staying within designed ranges. Do not insert past the heat sink fins. If you do, it will likely over drive the circuit and blow the FETs. This is one of the reasons I'm switching to the 8-10 amp BMS to help avoid over driving it. Taking 1 or 2 wraps off should still be OK but would have to see what results you get. I played for quite a while but decided to stick as close as possible to manufactures values. Altered the diameter some which will make some difference but not like dropping loops.
    :)
     
  7. rabidnz

    rabidnz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    13
    Thanks again for your sagw wisdom, have just ordered the updated bms and will have a tinker with the coiling :)
     
    AtomicPB and Pipes like this.
  8. rz

    rz Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    141
    @Pipes PSmini is looking good. You've kept it simple and functional. Kind of like a reliable manual car, with no computers to wonk out on you. Good move with the charge port wiring adjustment. It's not pretty when things go wrong with these batteries.

    About the BMS cutoff - In most of the monitoring circuitry that I've seen, the ICs monitor a voltage drop over the charge+discharge transistor sets (depending on architecture of the BMS). When the voltage crosses a certain threshold (thee are usually a few thresholds, for instance - 10A for 100ms, or 30A for 100uS ) , the BMS will cutoff the appropriate mosfet. I've seen in a few BMS's that they add a resistor in series to the mosfets so that the voltage drop increases, this will lower the cutoff currents at the expense of that extra voltage drop. You may notice (or maybe not, its china afterall), that there's a different series R between the 8A and 10A models. If you find yourself sitting on the threshold for some reason, you could parallel that R with something to slightly increase cutoff thresholds, as long as the rest of the circuitry can handle it. It's difficult to find a BMS chip with the perfect thresholds without buying in bulk, so theres at least a way to tweak a little.

    @rabidnz feel free to read back on some of my posts, I've written a bit about lower voltage IH. The main problem is driving the gates hard enough to keep them cool. I've found the IH will oscillate pretty well down to about 4~5V, but the gates need AT LEAST 8~10 to stay cool at working current. I plopped in a boost circuit to drive the gates at ~20v with 12v zenners, and they saturate pretty well. Of course, lower V will reduce output, so I bumped up capacitance to 1uF for about 10A*7V with 7 windings. Dropping below 4~5V will end up stalling oscillation and poof. A decent BMS is set to cut off at 2.5V CELL voltage, minus the drop and it gets awfully close to 4V, so software should intervene by then. We shouldn't push our batteries that low anyway if we want them to last much.
     
    KeroZen, Pipes, AtomicPB and 3 others like this.
  9. SloJimFizz

    SloJimFizz Unknown Member

    Messages:
    450
    Location:
    Joe's Garage
    Love my Skelator, awesome tool for the vapcap.
    A trip to Hobby Lobby turned not so sucky by finding a better box with a flip top lid to complete my "Bedside".
    $4.50 after 50% off. Yes please.

    [​IMG]

    [​IMG]
     
  10. jerseydvd

    jerseydvd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    @Pipes

    How long should it take the cap to click on the Portside? Something must be wrong as I’ve held the vapcap in there for 30 seconds and no click. The tip of the VC is warm, but that’s it.
    Batteries are fully charged yet the test button on the PS only has the first red led lit.
    Yes, tried both switch positions.
    Any ideas?
    Thanks ✌️
     
  11. stickstones

    stickstones Vapor concierge Retailer

    Messages:
    11,744
    I tested 5 different caps and they all clicked in the 8 to 10 second range.
     
    AtomicPB and Summer like this.
  12. jerseydvd

    jerseydvd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    Thanks, definitely something going on here then. Appreciate you testing! ✌️
     
  13. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,011
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    The gauge only showing one red led is telling us the heater's not getting power.
    Batteries installed correctly? What did you use to charge them?
    Please PM me the answers.
     
    Summer and AtomicPB like this.
  14. jerseydvd

    jerseydvd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    Was a very simple fix. Thanks to @Pipes for the quick help!
    Buy with confidence and enjoy!
     
  15. 55cruzer

    55cruzer Member

    Messages:
    7
    what secures the battery holder in the Portside. mine is lose and rattles around. is there anything I can do to secure it permantly?
     
    AtomicPB likes this.
  16. Summer

    Summer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    544
    Location:
    Long Island, NY
    Mine rattles around, too. @Pipes said it's secured with double sided taped. You can reinforce it with additional double sided tape. I haven't as yet. Guess the rattling hasn't gotten to me yet.
     
  17. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,768
    @stickstones is that with a Skelly and if so which batteries?

    My VTC4's, 15C rated, run about the same 8-10 seconds to the click.
    Their 2100mah's give me 4-5 days run time doing 'dip 'til done' bowls.

    Just wondering if people with different C rated batteries have noticed any difference in this initial heat time.
     
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  18. jerseydvd

    jerseydvd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    The VTC5As I use, are faster. Probably 5 sec tops.
     
    phattpiggie likes this.
  19. Dustydurban

    Dustydurban Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    In the Bushes
    Wouldn't a cpc(clicks per charge) be a better indicator for the batteries
    to determine the "most useful" battery
    Heat up time not so much:hmm:
    The batteries I have used seem to take 5 to 8 seconds to heat to click
    I seem to want as many cpc I can get
    Wondering aloud:)
     
    Pipes likes this.
  20. Pipes

    Pipes Addicted DIY Enthusiast Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    2,011
    Location:
    Southern Ontario
    As mentioned before by @KeroZen, there is no real free ride with batteries. Always a trade off.
    Generally, high mAhs means it met for low power devices. They have a higher internal resistance (lower C value) which means more voltage sage if used for devices requiring more amperage. The extra missing voltage is being taken by the internal resistance which also means it will run hotter. Running hotter means less overall life.

    Lower mAhs higher amps, means it is designed for higher power devices. They have a lower internal resistance (higher C value) which means less voltage sage even when more power is required. Less resistance to steal the voltage, which means less heat build up inside the battery. Running cooler means longer overall life.

    How one can test this, is to do a battery check while heating the VC. Higher capacity cells will give a more noticeable drop in level.

    So it's a real trade off here as the IHs kinda sits right where it's hard to pick one. Higher mAh cells will run longer but will also run somewhat slower to heat the cap. Enough to take away the mAhs gained?? Probably at some point. The heat from the battery getting hot is just a waste and over time will take some life away from it. However, because of our application here, a overly huge current rating is not so important. 20-30 Amp continuous discharge is good enough and the cells stay cool.

    :science:
     
    Summer, cybrguy, jerseydvd and 7 others like this.
  21. Hippie

    Hippie Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    51
    Yes and no as there are clicks from cold, continuity clicks, and duration after the click to add to the equation.

    Like for example you can dip a tip maybe 10 times for a full extraction sometimes, dipping to 2 seconds after the click without letting the tip cool completely, or let the tip cool completely between dips and heat it to 5 seconds or so after the click for a full extraction in 2 or 3 cycles .... or you may have your own timing and dipping preferences combining both techniques or somewhere in between :)

    I do a lot of 2 seconds after the click dipping and only get 2-3 days from HG2s
    So I'm concluding that method is quite inefficient, judging by the length of time some people are getting between charges. Either that or my HG2s are fake :hmm::)
     
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  22. Dustydurban

    Dustydurban Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    In the Bushes
    I've tried to keep a record of my dip counting:rofl: but ya know!
    I only get a 2+ day max if I only use the PS using LGhe2 and a little less with the excell LiMN
    There can't be many of us battery PS SK users
    How many days can you go on a charge? Everyone?

    How many dips
     
    Pipes likes this.
  23. phattpiggie

    phattpiggie Well-Known Member Accessory Maker

    Messages:
    1,768
    @Dustydurban I must be one of the only stoners to be able to keep my shit together enough to do this.
    I first did it with my INH05 when I was disproving ridiculously claimed battery run times.

    We all have differing vaping styles and daily consumption rates so instead of looking at it as 'how many minutes vaping' or 'how many bowls to a charge' I have looked at it as 'how much weed can I vape' per mah.
    I think the 05 was around 0.6g this was with a 3000mah battery, Skelly results put this to shame at just shy of 2g's to 2100mah.

    Given the subject matter it's not the easiest thing to do so I always 'count' a few times and then take an average.
    I've done tallies for 'click to click' and 'dip 'til done' with both 4th gen Ti and M tips.

    Here's where I got to with my Skelly a while back.

    Last time I did this the weather had changed and ambient temps in my shed and outside were low so this will have made a difference in my final numbers.
    This is a mix of bowls indoors, in the shed and outside whilst I was BBQ'ing in the evenings.
    Other variables may have played a part but I went from 35 to 27 bowls.

    I'm currently putting another device thru it's paces but will go back to the Skelly when I'm done.
     
    duff, cybrguy, rz and 5 others like this.
  24. Dustydurban

    Dustydurban Active Member

    Messages:
    27
    Location:
    In the Bushes
    @phattpiggie
    Sorry I fogot about your previous research
    My napkin math suggest that I am in the same 35 - 27 area
    Alas, Seems there are so many variables
    Just stating the obvious :Wish the batteries would last longer than they do:rockon::rockon::rockon:
    Quest for encased"fire" continues :brow:
     
    phattpiggie likes this.
  25. jerseydvd

    jerseydvd Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    74
    I have the VTC5a’s which are fantastic 2600mah 25amp continuous discharge. Fucking great batteries BUT, for the IH heater it does seem the VTC4 works just as well and is much cheaper. I’ll probably switch them out and use the 5a’s for my Tera alternates, and put VTC4’s in the Portside
     
    Summer and Pipes like this.

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