Discontinued ThermoVape

[OF]

Good to know about the under charge protection. Big releif in fact.
Tell me more about the tired effect. Sorry if already discussed but sounds important.

Now as you say we hammer the hell out of these little guys to the point the bottom becomes dented in somewhat. Do you think that this is anything to be concerned with? I imagine the intelligence (protections circuits) are the nibble end?

They're like you and me, when they work too hard they get tired (and need a charge, not a nap....). If they get too tired, they fall asleep right there at their little desks, just like you and me when the tired effect is heavy on us. In this case they are typically about 2.0 Volts (one Volt tired?) at which point the output shuts down (it goes dark....) until charged back up. Perhaps not the best thing to do to them, but not fatal.

I've had dents too, no need to worry I know of. If it bothers you, put the batteries in the other way around. The positive terminal is quite strong, and the stitch button is broad and flat so it doesn't dent the negative end. No, while at one time the board was on the nibble end, now it's typically found on the nipple (positive) end.

OK, OK, you win Stu......wash anything you want. Some of us have a few suggestions if your interested, otherwise wash whatever you want with whatever you want (I'd still avoid whites with coloreds in hot water....).

OF

 

[Pipes]

No, while at one time the board was on the nibble end, now it's typically found on the nipple (positive) end.
OF

I know, it's late....

 

[OF]

I know, it's late....

Hey, it's also way too early for some poor sod elsewhere on this here internet. You know the guy, mousing with one hand, coffee in the other....not enough in him, yet?

Great to share a chuckle, thanks.

OF

 

[Futuretvowner]

So after having numerous problems I received a new body and sleeve and switch and the device works great again!

 

[sessnet]

So after having numerous problems I received a new body and sleeve and switch and the device works great again!

Hooray! Let's hope it lasts you for a long time, and you can enjoy it how you wanted to

 

[SameOldTim]

So after having numerous problems I received a new body and sleeve and switch and the device works great again!

Glad we could take care of you!

Tim

 

[OF]

So after having numerous problems I received a new body and sleeve and switch and the device works great again!

Great news! I understand the urge is to let the sleeping dog lie and not mess with it trying to find the exact problem but I think it'd be very useful to know for next time (which hopefully won't happen anytime soon). Are you going to send the switch back for post mortum (as it sounds like that's most likely the problem)? It had to die (if it did) for a reason, something nobody wants repeated.

In any event, enjoy the machine. Glad you're issues are sorted out.

OF

 

[Futuretvowner]

Great news! I understand the urge is to let the sleeping dog lie and not mess with it trying to find the exact problem but I think it'd be very useful to know for next time (which hopefully won't happen anytime soon). Are you going to send the switch back for post mortum (as it sounds like that's most likely the problem)? It had to die (if it did) for a reason, something nobody wants repeated.

In any event, enjoy the machine. Glad you're issues are sorted out.

OF

Yeah I'm sending all of the old stuff back but I'm going to do a few quick tests to see what the problem was

 

[Futuretvowner]

And my results confirm that it was in fact the switch that isn't working.

 

[PB88123]

And my results confirm that it was in fact the switch that isn't working.

Good to know. I leave my switch in the TV and far away from liquids. Sounds like the switch is the cause of most problems.

 

[OF]

Yeah I'm sending all of the old stuff back but I'm going to do a few quick tests to see what the problem was

Good plan, please do be careful, don't wanna kill the goose now that the eggs have started.....

Thanks and good luck.

OF

 

[OF]

Good to know. I leave my switch in the TV and far away from liquids. Sounds like the switch is the cause of most problems.

I'm picking up on that too. This is a very common part for them. They use it on two other (more popular) e-cig lines and a slightly modified version on a third. They've made a boat load of these guys, they know how. The difference, I think, might be due to the higher current demands in TV? Also I've seen (and been told about) floating switch issues with the o-ring that retains it and small changes in length of the cartridge screwed in. That's more an issue for Revolution I think.

One thing sure, our best chance of getting this under control is for TV to have access to as much information as is available, starting with autopsies on the dead.....

What a cool group this is. We help them, they help us....everyone wins. And made in the US by nice guys.

Guys, BTW, who are even now plotting new treasures for us.

OF

BTW, I asked again yesterday when I visited TV, they still haven't ever seen a single total heat core failure. A few with one side dark. Well over five thousand in service. Less than ten problems total, field and production test (they bang 'em a bit and check the light last thing before packaging). If you've got even partial light on one side, chances are extremely good your heat core is just fine. OF

 

[Pipes]

If you've got even partial light on one side, chances are extremely good your heat core is just fine. OF

This is something which confuses me. Doesn't take too much mind you. Since this is a heater element, how can only partial heats up? And one heat up faster then the other? Can understand if some crud gets on it and has to burn off but that would be fairly quick you'd think. Connections would effect the whole thing. Just curious.

 

[Haywood]

It looks like the Tenergy "green band" batteries we use are back in stock again. I just received a second charger with six more batteries from All-Battery.com. They have the lowest prices I've seen anywhere and they're a pleasure to deal with. They also have the largest Tenergy selection I've ever seen, as well as Tenergy fast chargers for LiFePO4 that I've never seen elsewhere. Strangely enough, when I called All-Battery to check availability, they answered the phone "Tenergy, may I help you"; I don't know exactly what to make of that. Their web site makes for interesting reading and insight into Tenergy, even if you're not currently in the market for more batteries or chargers. I have no connection with All-Battery.com other than being a satisfied customer.

The batteries linked below are the ones that come with the T1, the Tenergy RCR123A 750mAh LiFePO4.
The charger linked below is the same white one that comes with the T1, including both the 12VDC cord and the AC Wall Wart.

All-Battery.com Links:

One Battery ($3)
Four Batteries ($11.50)
Ten Batteries ($28)

Charger ($15)
Charger + Two Batts ($19)
Charger + Six Batts ($25)

I think the Charger + Six Battery combo is an ideal addition to what comes with the standard ThermoVape Package, and is a great bargain as well. You wind up with double the number of batteries, which means they last twice as long, and you have double the number of chargers, which cuts the charge time in half.


OF: Been following your messages on the ThermoVape for Concentrates thread. Seeing the results of the synergistic relationship that ThermoEssence has with its users here is pretty impressive. The "AA" and particularly the "AAA" size prototypes are very cool, and very stealth, if you have access to oils. Have you seen anything coming (that you can talk about) that might prove to be as wonderful for T1 users who don't have access to oils and the like?

 

[OF]

This is something which confuses me. Doesn't take too much mind you. Since this is a heater element, how can only partial heats up? And one heat up faster then the other? Can understand if some crud gets on it and has to burn off but that would be fairly quick you'd think. Connections would effect the whole thing. Just curious.

A low voltage condition causes strange things to happen in parallel deals like this when you only consider light from fixed points. Watch your toaster element as it fires up, some show this well, my prior one used ribbon (not round wire) and you could see it clearly as the 'hot areas' moved back and forth.

The physics involved usually comes down to the hotter bit has it's resistance go up higher than the rest (cooler) so more voltage is 'dropped there', thus more power. As the power shifts from cold to hot, if there's not a lot to replace it thing cool before other factors push the shift back (light brings radiation to the game as a way of getting rid of heat fast). Normally this is mostly masked by plenty of power but one element is sure to light differently from the other in low volt conditions, they won't share well, just like the guys you work with.

To take this one step further, the advantage to the heat core idea, as opposed to a exposed heater like you see mostly is the very high heat in small masses well insulated. In a matter of a few seconds basically everything inside the ceramic heat shield around the outside (body, both coils, both forms) all comes up to the same temperature as they madly trade Infrared Radiation back and forth. It's called 'the kiln effect' because like a ceramic kiln where the heat enters at one point everywhere you look is basically the same temperature looking back at you. Everything in the kiln gets baked this way. The fresh air is purposely pulled through a twisted path to break up the air flow so it doesn't zip through the hot area, nor linger in the corners. In the process it picks up a fairly well controlled (obviously) amount of heat. Good stuff.

OF

 

[OF]

OF: Been following your messages on the ThermoVape for Concentrates thread. Seeing the results of the synergistic relationship that ThermoEssence has with its users here is pretty impressive. The "AA" and particularly the "AAA" size prototypes are very cool, and very stealth, if you have access to oils. Have you seen anything coming (that you can talk about) that might prove to be as wonderful for T1 users who don't have access to oils and the like?

Sorry if I left you with the wrong impression, those are NOT prototypes, they're models long in production for e-cig guys. You can buy them today on e-cig sites, but I'd stand by and see how TV bundles it up for us. It might be the 'bare unit' is the way to go (get your own batteries and charger)? Or maybe a full on kit with LR revolution, batteries, charger maybe a case? I'm sure if you do a Google on 'Alpha Ultra' and 'Alpha Ultralite' you'll find someone to take your money if you can't wait.

No sorry, I haven't seen or discussed anything I can't tell you about. Then again, what would you expect me to say? However, if I were you I wouldn't give up hope....I haven't. Those guys have a lot on their plates, but they seem to take it in stride and the results are darn near unique. Fun, really fun.

OF

 

[Pipes]

I have discovered tonight that liquid lighter fluid seems to work wonders in cleaning the battery holder. The sliding seemed to be giving me some trouble and found I was really starting to push fairly hard to get good contact. Usually I would just use ISO which worked but was running low. So I decided to go with lighter fluid and found the paper towl was really really black. So cleaned battery contacts and bottom of handle by pushing paper towel, dampened with fluid, with a pop sickle stick. Noticed the slider felt like new. (Forgot the feel) I swear the unit performs better. My imagination?????
Can you folks confirm my sanity?
Pipes

 

[OF]

I have discovered tonight that liquid lighter fluid seems to work wonders in cleaning the battery holder. The sliding seemed to be giving me some trouble and found I was really starting to push fairly hard to get good contact. Usually I would just use ISO which worked but was running low. So I decided to go with lighter fluid and found the paper towl was really really black. So cleaned battery contacts and bottom of handle by pushing paper towel, dampened with fluid, with a pop sickle stick. Noticed the slider felt like new. (Forgot the feel) I swear the unit performs better. My imagination?????
Can you folks confirm my sanity?
Pipes

Yes, cool stuff. Naphtha is what ya got. A collection of dead dinosaur parts (crude oil) centered around gasoline. It's something less than a third of crude and mostly goes straight to gasoline (which has other supplies from different processes). Some to solvents and 'feed stocks' (stuff to make other stuff out of), some for 'white gas' stoves and a tiny bit for our Zippos. Cool stuff, we couldn't run this fun little planet the way we do without it for sure.

Another really neat trick is to put a single drop on a nasty stick on label and let it soak into the paper for a bit, sucker wipes right off with a paper towel.

Downside is, like gasoline, there's stuff in there you really don't want to be breathing. Our livers already get a work out, some of the chemicals likely to show up from time to time in this kind of stuff are known issues. It's not poison in such small doses as you'd normally classify things, use it as needed. But think about where the nasty old dinosaurs are going to vape away, because evaporation is exactly what the naphtha in the paper towels and such is going to be doing. I don't think you want to be downwind? I don't.

OF

 

[Kaptan]

If you include shipping costs, the amazon deal with charger and 6 batteries is a few dollars cheaper
http://www.amazon.com/Kits-RCR123A-...HO9G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333200183&sr=8-2

 

[darkrom]

I still can't seem to get any hits with the pureflow. In fact I realized I almost completely stopped using the TV since I got it. Now with the extended mouthpiece back and no pure flow I am able to get hits again. Anyone using it with good results? Any tips? I really want to like the pureflow for the moisture and filtering, but so far I don't. I'd like to keep trying to see if I can get any results at all.

 

[Haywood]

If you include shipping costs, the amazon deal with charger and 6 batteries is a few dollars cheaper
http://www.amazon.com/Kits-RCR123A-...HO9G/ref=sr_1_2?ie=UTF8&qid=1333200183&sr=8-2

Yeah, but Battery Superstore (the Amazon seller you mention) has been out of stock for almost a month, with promised ship dates slipping twice. I still have four batteries on back order with them from when I first got my T1. If they don't ship by next week , I'm gonna cancel my order with them, request a refund, and just get them from All-Battery.

 

[Pipes]

A low voltage condition causes strange things to happen in parallel deals like this when you only consider light from fixed points. Watch your toaster element as it fires up, some show this well, my prior one used ribbon (not round wire) and you could see it clearly as the 'hot areas' moved back and forth.
OF

I am starting to realize this. Seems there are a lot of variables here. I also experience the twisting to get hotter effect. Or stated earlier as not turning on till battery holder is twisted. Really feels like it gets hotter if you feel vape dropping then a little thumb twist and the temperature goes up again.

Overall the T1 performs excellent when everything is working 100%. The power troubles are a bit of a pain and educating ourselves in what's exactly happening inside this seemingly simple device is proving to be quite complex.

The biggest issue I have is the inconsistency I seem to have with the batteries. Although, I just pull out any batteries that show any sign or not performing and replace. This keeps the frustration level down. Since I am a e-cig user as well so I use the suspected battery set for that application until depleted.
It actually feels like the battery over current protection is really on it's border thus turning off at will sometimes. Funny, while writting this it is hitting me what single possible problem might explain my power troubles....
Hmmmm, TV, Tim, OF, could I get an opinion(s) on this.

Symptoms:
Batteries seem to function with unpredictable performance.
Rare but have had combustion and have to actually hold back on draw not to combust. (I thought that particular charge cycles they got into steriods)
The vaped product has many black specs. Normal? Heat streams? Thought that was just the way it is.
Some batteries start off fine but wimper out quick.
Fiddling with sleeve and/or contacts make differences.
Now what I am thinking, what if my element is actually getting too hot.
I have measured the resistence to be .9 ohms. This would make it over 36 watts if batteries could maintain 6 volts. I seem to remember 30 watts somewhere in the thread. This would indicate the resistance should be around 1.16 ohms. Is it possible that this tolerance could be pushing the batteries to shut off?
If so?
I measured when T1 was new. I will measure again, make sure I zero the meter because of the low resistance, and report back again.


Edited: Still .9 ohms. Kind of odd though measure .9 and in a couple seconds it wants to jump to 1.4 ohm. Measured with switch removed.

 

[OF]

Batteries seem to function with unpredictable performance.
Rare but have had combustion and have to actually hold back on draw not to combust. (I thought that particular charge cycles they got into steriods)
The vaped product has many black specs. Normal? Heat streams? Thought that was just the way it is.
Some batteries start off fine but wimper out quick.
Fiddling with sleeve and/or contacts make differences.
Now what I am thinking, what if my element is actually getting too hot.
I have measured the resistence to be .9 ohms. This would make it over 36 watts if batteries could maintain 6 volts. I seem to remember 30 watts somewhere in the thread. This would indicate the resistance should be around 1.16 ohms. Is it possible that this tolerance could be pushing the batteries to shut off?
If so?
I measured when T1 was new. I will measure again, make sure I zero the meter because of the low resistance, and report back again.

I'll take a stab at a couple, but it's a huge list you got there....

Yes batteries are a variable, but best to get the unit going well first then come back to them? I'm pretty sure being 20% high in power (if indeed you are that) for a couple of reasons. First of which is I'm now testing a prototype high output Heat Core running 35 Watts and it works great. I'm not sure if it's a good trade off between extra battery drain against higher heat available on demand, but it does work just fine. Secondly, the real resistance (at temperature) is really hard to measure. In fact, it's not easy to measure it cold without a 'four point' system to remove lead and fixture issues. Calculation based on load current and voltage is far better than all but the very best DMMs (and no, not just 'good Flukes'). But if you have a before measurement, it means something against the after measurement if it's done the same way.

I'd trust this part for now and work on technique. You should be mixing enough and drawing such that the load is pretty uniform. And you shouldn't be getting black before the green is gone. However, when mixing is weak (and you hit it several times) it tends to 'track' up a few paths (I suspect because the herb dries?) and you burn with raw herb a fraction of an inch away.

LiFePO4s should be pretty tough customers (and they'd better be, we use 'em hard). After you get the unit under control I suspect well find most of them are fine, but for now I agree, put the questionable ones aside for now and soldier on.....

Good luck.

OF

 

[Pipes]

Yeah, but Battery Superstore (the Amazon seller you mention) has been out of stock for almost a month, with promised ship dates slipping twice. I still have four batteries on back order with them from when I first got my T1. If they don't ship by next week , I'm gonna cancel my order with them, request a refund, and just get them from All-Battery.

I had ordered that exact unit a couple weeks back and got it in 7 days to Canada. Also, it is white the same as TVs charger. Even though picture shows black. Yep, Amazon's always worth a check.

 

[OF]

So the pressure and stress of Beta testing this new Revolution cart was starting to get to me (not to mention my stash of CO2 wax was taking a serious hit....) so I decided a little decompression time was in order.....what more natural tool to reach for than the trusty T1?

It occurred to me when I did that I never passed on what I think is a good thing, putting a screen on top of the load. I've been goofing with loosening the cap and rolling the unit to mix after the load is dry and loose (I still do a dump in the palm a time or two first). In the process I tried adding a 5/8 inch SS screen on top (it just fits). Not only does it keep the top clean but I think it helps in the mix when I roll it as the load tends to stick just a bit and then break up.

If you have the screens handy from your other projects, I suggest you try it out.

OF