707vallejo707
NorCalLeftSideWe$tSide
I was using a USB Passthrough with my computer and it was working great. For about a month. I'm just ready to experiment.
Discontinued ThermoVape Revolution for concentrates
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OF
Well-Known Member
Think what you wish, I just explained why that can't happen. This is why, for example, TV doesn't offer one for their PA.....it won't work, not enough power in a USB. You need a battery. There's not enough power to 'pass through' even at 100% efficiency.
OK, your original question is 'what's the best'? The answer is, I think, they're all electrically the same (for the reason above). Choose based on features you like.
If your duty cycle (percent of on time) is low enough, it doesn't really matter. You're overall charging (therefore gaining).
OF
I believe its even lower actually. USB typically provides 500mA max, not sure if I've seen one that outputs 1A but considering Ohms Law the wattage output would be:
P = I *E
P= 500mA * 5V = 2.5 Watts
P=1000mA (or 1A) * 5V= 5 Watts
Enough for charging but definitely not for powering directly. lol. Maybe if you made a "custom" USB power supply that could provide around 3-5A (15W - 25W) or more I think you'd be in the clear.
OF
Well-Known Member
Yup, that's the math. Lots of laptop ports are only 500mA, but desktops and some of the newer laptops will support 1000mA as you suggest. That's still short of what we need for the 'low power' Omicron cart (even at 100% efficiency in voltage conversion, which is also not going to happen), half what we need to light up a DART.
That's why we need to store energy ahead of time in a battery on board.
Thanks.
OF
OF
Well-Known Member
Yep I agree with you on that. Its amazing how much current batteries can handle, pretty cool if you ask me
On that note, any idea what the capacity is of the RCR123A batteries that come with the TV's? I wonder if there are any available with higher capacity
Yup, the other 'better living through chemistry'.
They say 750 mAh, at the levels we're using them I measured closer to 550 IIRC. No, there's a 900 mAh from the same maker, but it doesn't have that lovely low internal resistance we crave. I'm convinced these guys are the best of class as are the AW IMR 15500s. The exception is the 'funny' 17670, it's a protected Li Ion, but it was developed for the flashlight guys I'm told, for flat out draw from high end 123As in Surefires and such. It runs with the big dogs, the IMR 18650s.
TV's done their homework here I think. AW's good stuff.
OF
You are correct that the USB spec allows devices to "request" only up to 500mA of current. However many non-computer devices ignore the logical protocol and simply tap power from two of the four wires. As a result, nearly all A/C (mains for non-US) and car adapters are rated at 2Amps of current - ex.:
http://www.amazon.com/PowerGen-Dual-Heavy-Ouput-Charger/dp/B00622AG6S
I have several like this one (not this exact one though).
Many laptops do not even put out 500mA - I'm typing on one with some ports limited to 250mA. However, because of the draw of the above mentioned non-computer devices, some manufacturers have begun to implement VERY beefy USB current loads. For example, Gigabyte makes some models with 1.5 Amp current capacity for USB 2.0 and 2.7 Amps for USB 3.0 devices (3.0 can request 900mA):
http://www.gigabyte.com/microsite/239/3x-usb-power.html
So while it usually won't work, there certainly do exist USB ports capable of supplying 10 watts and (much) more.
-NDA
OF
Well-Known Member
Yup, non standard supplies using that connector can often do it, I'm looking at a 2.1 Amp one right here, but USB ports do not. They are basically useless for this use.
Chargers that just go slower if less current is available are one thing, but vapes that don't get hot is another.
And remember, selling a USB pass throughs that didn't work on even a few (let alone all?) USB ports would be a fatal claim to make. Exceptions don't count at such times, customers will be pissed and are sure to let you know.
OF
In a perfect world that would/should be true.
Here, on my (was >$3k) notebook, many devices do not work on all but one port. As an example to many here, most 510 ecig 420mAh chargers (well within spec) don't work, but cheaper 220 or 240mAh ones do. Not slower, but not at all (usually its is very bad - the lights come on, but the devices just don't work). Off-brand cellphone chargers also often don't work on 250mAh ports. Unfortunately this has not stopped either the market from being full of such devices or computer manufacturers from building notebooks that way (I've never seen an underpowered desktop). And don't even try with many USB non-powered hubs.
-NDA
Hey guys,
Just wanted to show you guys how we handle parts that don't meet our initial quality control. There are thousands upon thousands parts that we literally throw away (in the recycling bin of coarse, we recycle all of our raw parts that dont pass).
Cheers,
Tim
Just wanted to show you guys how we handle parts that don't meet our initial quality control. There are thousands upon thousands parts that we literally throw away (in the recycling bin of coarse, we recycle all of our raw parts that dont pass).
Cheers,
Tim
That's the one. I could not find it separately. Good to know.
Thanks Tim. I have both the full metal as well as that one and IMHO the delrin wins hands down on all fronts. Never have a e-juice leak problem so the extra lip, the all metal unit has, really has no benefit. For me anyway.
If one could find a 4 volt 3 amp supply with the 5.5 mm plug, they would be good to go. ??
OF, you should know better then to say no such thing. Just not yet found.
The adapter is a go, either the TV solution or my contraption for the vaporist on a budget.
Going to have to search around. I would assume 3.5 to 4.2 should be safe enough.
Are these numbers good OF?
Pipes
OF
Well-Known Member
Something like that should work, but it's not even close to a USB port is it? That was the original topic you're quoting me from, not a PA.
What I said is absolutely true.......and yes I know what I'm talking about.
OF
Oh I know you know what your talking about. As usual I'm jumping ahead. Would not even attempt a computer's supply. Last time I tried an external DVD blue ray burner without the recommended external supply it took out my laptop. Guess I just immediately dismissed that idea.
Anyway, seems to be a lot of 4 volt 2 amp supplies out there but think 8 watts is a little shy. But then again we thought the T1 needed 5 amps but in fact runs fine under 4 amps. (3.3 amp in fact) Do you think 2 amps might cut it? (as long as it's current limited and not cut out all together) In my mind it's still a little under what is needed by the book.
If so this one would do.
Not interested myself but seems some could use it if works.
Pipes
Part of the problem is knowing what to look at and where to look
There is at least one industry who uses 3-10 Amp power supplies in the interesting voltage range. AND the parts intended for this purpose have already been used by many vape (mostly log, but also D9's VV looks like one) manufacturers.
I think you can find a tattoo power supply to do what you want
You'll have to look around a bit since many (most?) have 3 Amp limits, but those intended for multiple operators are usually 5, 6 or even 10 Amps and usually 3 to 18 or 18.4 volts. Should be under $50-60US AND it should handle any of 3.7-4.2v, 6.4-7.2v or 7.4-8.4v for all common devices. If you REALLY want, a Mastech switcher (not a linear model) should work just fine for about $125US. (a linear would heat your house and cost much more).-NDA
707vallejo707
NorCalLeftSideWe$tSide
Ok so im thinking maybe I should just get a T1 Base for my LV dart. Would I be able to use the RES on it? It looks like it would help keep the Dart covered.
Cool, a little pricey. IMO 3 amp should??? be good enough at 4 volts. 12 watts.Part of the problem is knowing what to look at and where to look
There is at least one industry who uses 3-10 Amp power supplies in the interesting voltage range. AND the parts intended for this purpose have already been used by many vape (mostly log, but also D9's VV looks like one) manufacturers.
I think you can find a tattoo power supply to do what you want
-NDA
Now this is not for me but for an alternative for those interested. I'm just throwing around ideas.
Maybe Tim could let us know the actual current the LV runs at? Somehow 10 watts rings a bell.
Pipes
Part of the problem is knowing what to look at and where to look
There is at least one industry who uses 3-10 Amp power supplies in the interesting voltage range. AND the parts intended for this purpose have already been used by many vape (mostly log, but also D9's VV looks like one) manufacturers.
I think you can find a tattoo power supply to do what you want
-NDA
I would much rather go with a regular computer power supply for several reasons.
For one, it is much cheaper. You can get one for around $20 that will give you more than enough current at 5V. Like this one here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152019
Less than $20 and gives you 29 Amps at 5V, WAY more than you would ever need. Plus its got 12V and 3.3V to experiment with other things if needed. I use PC PSUs a lot because of the high current capability, usually built-in short protection, and they are usually a lot cheaper than other types of power supplies.
Hell I use an xbox power supply to attach to my charger for my high capacity battery packs for my RC cars, and it puts out 19Amps at 12V! lol you just gotta know where to look. PC power supplies are pretty easy to hook up to turn on without a motherboard as well, just jumper the green switch wire to ground on the main ATX connector and itll turn on!
There isn't variable voltage, but a voltage divider circuit could easily be implemented with the 12V to allow a variable voltage.
Just my two cents
Your computer supplies haves very low efficiency when run well below near the maximum rated load. Expensive ones may approach 85-90%, but most are closer to 65% at low loads. They're also much larger, noisier and are not variable voltage or packages for table top usage. They do make good cheap 5v or 12 volt (or load current -5v) supplies for some usesI would much rather go with a regular computer power supply for several reasons.
For one, it is much cheaper. You can get one for around $20 that will give you more than enough current at 5V. Like this one here:
http://www.newegg.com/Product/Product.aspx?Item=N82E16817152019
Less than $20 and gives you 29 Amps at 5V, WAY more than you would ever need. Plus its got 12V and 3.3V to experiment with other things if needed. I use PC PSUs a lot because of the high current capability, usually built-in short protection, and they are usually a lot cheaper than other types of power supplies.
Hell I use an xbox power supply to attach to my charger for my high capacity battery packs for my RC cars, and it puts out 19Amps at 12V! lol you just gotta know where to look. PC power supplies are pretty easy to hook up to turn on without a motherboard as well, just jumper the green switch wire to ground on the main ATX connector and itll turn on!
There isn't variable voltage, but a voltage divider circuit could easily be implemented with the 12V to allow a variable voltage.
Just my two cents
This isn't one one those uses/cases.-NDA
Gee, If you'd sell your mini-tube pass-through with switch (in the DIY forum), I'd maybe buy one just for this case - Handle all TV and D9/W9 parts (assuming your wiring and switch can handle the current).
Add you micro/mini volt meter to the deal and you''ve got a sale
-NDA
Your computer supplies haves very low efficiency when run well below near the maximum rated load. Expensive ones may approach 85-90%, but most are closer to 65% at low loads. They're also much larger, noisier and are not variable voltage or packages for table top usage. They do make good cheap 5v or 12 volt (or load current -5v) supplies for some uses
-NDA
I would have to disagree, even at low efficiency its still going to have higher current output than those table-top supplies. I just don't want to see someone spend $60 bucks on something they could get for half or less finding the right place
Not saying the PC PSU is the only option but you don't need a super high quality power source for this purpose, you just need enough power and something that doesn't dramatically vary voltage. If it were an audio application for example, then noise introduced into the signal would be an issue, in this case not really. lol. Something very sensitive may be an issue, but a simple circuit like a heating coil wont really matter. It really depends on the application used though, I'm just throwing out ideas.
This is speaking from a DIY perspective and also from someone that doesn't have a lot of money so the economical use always appeals to me. lol
OF
Well-Known Member
Of what possible value is current capacity you don't use but pay for with larger size, the noise of a fan, more heat and higher operating costs (uses more electricity to power your vape)? You can get more modest supplies that are more appropriate for less than that by a long shot from Jameco, Digikey, Mauser and those kinda guys.
I think it's also very important that using a computer supply 'in the open' means it is no longer certified. If someone burns their house down, I want no part of the blame. Or gets a shock.....or just says they got a shock. I think finding a low cost device certified for the service (hopefully with the correct connector already on it) is the call. There are some real risks involved.
OF
You seem to have completely missed either part of the point or just lack some understanding.I would have to disagree, even at low efficiency its still going to have higher current output than those table-top supplies. I just don't want to see someone spend $60 bucks on something they could get for half or less finding the right place
Not saying the PC PSU is the only option but you don't need a super high quality power source for this purpose, you just need enough power and something that doesn't dramatically vary voltage. If it were an audio application for example, then noise introduced into the signal would be an issue, in this case not really. lol. Something very sensitive may be an issue, but a simple circuit like a heating coil wont really matter. It really depends on the application used though, I'm just throwing out ideas.
This is speaking from a DIY perspective and also from someone that doesn't have a lot of money so the economical use always appeals to me. lol
Simply 12 volts or 5 volts is fairly worthless for any case we're considering.
Yes, you could use a voltage divider: A passive divider would be at best 50% efficient going from 12 to 6 volts. If you add a PWM or buck circuit, you have nullified your original "simplicity" and price advantage. We need to find a 6.0 (or 6.4) to 7.2 volt supply and a modified computer PSU just wont do it sell (I pay > $.40US/kWh - no way I want to use what you've recommended).
-NDA
I am an electronics engineer so no need to question my understanding. I'm just throwing out ideas because I like to build stuff, which I know doesn't apply to everyone.
And yes, by the way 5V does very much apply to the previous conversation talking about the limits of 5V USB ports for pass through devices. Which is why I mentioned it in the first place
I guess we're talking about two different things. lol
OF
Well-Known Member
Well, the USB port powered vape discussion seems to have died down.
If you guys really want to do this for Revoution/DART (or even Evolution) I think you're missing the obvious. Borrow a page from the e-cig guys, put an IMR 15500 inside the adapter. Don't make it a hollow tube like the TV unit currently is, but add the same sort of connector to the bottom of the tube (and a hole in the outer tube) to match and connect the cable to the USB charger that's plugged into your computer. In use the internal 15500 will power the vape, and automatically recharge between hits. The only thing you need to invent is a cable with female 510 connector on one end (lots of options there) and the mating connector to whatever you decide on in the adapter tube.
OF
If you guys really want to do this for Revoution/DART (or even Evolution) I think you're missing the obvious. Borrow a page from the e-cig guys, put an IMR 15500 inside the adapter. Don't make it a hollow tube like the TV unit currently is, but add the same sort of connector to the bottom of the tube (and a hole in the outer tube) to match and connect the cable to the USB charger that's plugged into your computer. In use the internal 15500 will power the vape, and automatically recharge between hits. The only thing you need to invent is a cable with female 510 connector on one end (lots of options there) and the mating connector to whatever you decide on in the adapter tube.
OF
707vallejo707
NorCalLeftSideWe$tSide
I mean it seems like it's just time to get an ultramax and wait for the tv passthrough for LV.