Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by ThermoCoreTim, Jan 24, 2013.
I wonder if a latching switch could be made using the Silicone mouthpeice sleeve down at the bottom.
hopefully battery life won't be an issue much longer for anyone
Sorry beat you to that first I've had one down in Melbourne for a few Weeks now, been posting my findings since.
Also I agree with OF I have not been able to combust, vaped very dark but deffo not burnt. How fine did you chop? Buchee said he managed it, but had almost powdered the load and packed very tight, I aim for fine but not powder and packed just before it restricts draw (if that makes sense)
Edit: supposed to have a quote was talking to jivebuggered
I've been using the TET-supplied flat-top 18650 (2250 mah) batteries with the LL cart without any issues. I have been rotating 3 batteries for awhile now and have gotten 3 consecutive loads from 1 battery on at least 2 different occasions (run time approx. 21 mins.). I prefer to take it easy on batteries and had planned on limiting them to 2 sessions (say 15 mins. of use?) each before replacing, but it's nice knowing they can last longer. BTW, if anyone is interested I'm using the XTAR SP2 charger (NOT the XTAR SP2 II) with 3 charging rates (500 mah, 1A and 2A vs the 500mah/1A found on the SP2 II) BUT ONLY BECAUSE I already owned one. The TET-offered charger seems like an excellent one, but the approx. $20 saved has already gone into my CERA-MINI savings jar (LOL).
I also have not stirred the LL bowl at all - finding my medicinals evenly vaped and ranging from medium to dark brown depending on how 'aggressive' my session. I don't own the original T1 LL so I've never experienced the 'palm roll/bowl stir' process - and guess I'm glad that I won't have to. Still getting real nice vapor! My experience very similar to Buchee's.
Want to give you (and Jamband) a big 'Thank You' for your comments on the 'Infamous Bubbler' and to provide you some feedback on how it works with CERA. I've been using it with the LL cart lately and ladies, it works VERY WELL!! If you use one of TET'S silicon MP sleeves I think you'll find that CERA will 'mate' with just about any WP. CERA's LL cart works fine 'upside-down' - I actually find it easier to activate the momentary switch in that manner (in fist with thumb up) as well. Vapor is nice and cool and the WP is remarkably nice given its' low price. THANKS AGAIN LADIES!!!! (Imagine smiley faces with a BIG thumbs-up).
Sooooo, I upon a little thought I had to wonder, how, and if, the dimensions of the Cera switch are similar to past products. Being the owner of both the Evolution LV, and regular 6v Evolution I decided to whip out the ruler and camera to get some speculation going about this thought I had.
My focus was mainly the top part of the Evolution switch that that battery is pushed up to for connection ( seems like the Cera is basically the same setup but reversed, put on the bottom of the device and doesnt directly touch/transfer the energy to the atomizer connection....anyways heres some pics..
So Basically I meausred the thread on the Evo's underside switch/spring connector and it is roughly 19mm in diameter.. I believe this is the same size as Cera.. correct me if I am wrong. Also the length is roughly under 27mm (I think 25mm to be exact) from the top of the switch to the bottom point of the spring.
So in pursuing a flashlight or some sort of automative push button switch these may be helpful dimensions to look out for.
FYI , this idea is a full switch replacement proposal, not just modding the momentary switch, so be sure that you find A switch with appropriate conductivity, amps, volts, etc...
I know it may be hard to follow without the pics of it up next to a ruler but just putting my food for thought on the menu. Hope this helps somebody with brainstorming!
You cannot upload pictures directly yo FC. You have to upload them to a hosting site and then link to them. I use imgur.com. I have an account there but you don't need to sign up, and it's free. Your pictures are stripped of any identifying information so you can remain completely anonymous if you want.
Thank you Pakalol, but I believe I tried just what you mentioned I used imugur, then copied the bbcode the first time, then the linked bb code the second time but I couldn't see my image when previewing the post, did I do something wrong or does the pic not appear till the post is submitted?
I wonder if what's happening is that a super fine grind allows a bit to fall through the holes in the bottom of the LL bowl, and once inside the oven, they combust against the coil or the ceramic, which inside the oven, is hot enough to support combustion. Then at the next inhale, the now burning bit of plant material is drawn back into the bowl (out of the oven), and that's enough to char and/or burn the bottom of the load.
Just a thought.
On another note, I've been doing some investigating as to what the best batteries FOR THE CERA LINE are, and there are some surprises. (But TET won't be surprised as they picked the two best cells even before they started selling the Cera). The 2250mAh Panasonic CGR18650CH is probably the best, with the new 2900mAh Panasonic 18650PD that TET just got in being a very close second (either will perform essentially the same, but note that the 18650PD MUST have a protection circuit board; the CGR18650CH doesn't need a protection circuit because it's using similar technology that's used in the IMR cells). The 3400mAh Panasonic NCR18650B cell is actually not nearly as good FOR THE CERA LINE as either of them. Not "just as good", or "almost as good" but not nearly as good.
I'll give you a couple of hints, as I probably won't have time to post the whole diatribe with graphs and math until late tonight or Friday. The Cera line, particularly the LL core, doesn't work very well at 3.2v or less. At 3.2v, the core gets hot enough to glow, hot enough to make the Cera get very warm to the touch (even sometimes too hot to hold if left on for a long time), but NOT hot enough to produce great vapor. The same is true for the EO core, but not to the extent of the LL core. The lower core temp is the same, but EO works better at lower vape temps than LL does.
Here's my very simple mod to bypass the switch for LL
The BB codes should work but only if you paste them directly into the post. The mistake people tend to make is to get the BB code and then use the Image button in the editor here and paste the code into that. That won't work. If you use the Image button, you need to copy the Direct Link (email & IM) code and paste that. No matter which way you do it, the image should show up in your preview.
so how does your mod work buchee?
I think the switch is in permanent on mode and so it becomes a switch that activates by screwing it in to make contact, and turning it off is done by unscrewing it and breaking the connection. It's like how some people drop a little folded up piece of foil in between the outer body shell and the battery sleeve for the older line, the extra thickness automatically engages the switch once it's screwed in properly, regardless of if you're touching the switch or not. I might be wrong, my understanding/explanation is a bit muddled by an edible that I thought wasn't as strong as it actually is... I read 1, apparently it had 2 grams of hash...
Anyone else dropping something extra into their Cera packs?? Had the opportunity to pick up some hash earlier but I passed on it because my DART is liquids only Might actually spend my tax return on the Cera though
First all of us here at TET thank those of you who posted videos, they look great!
Things are doing well here at TV, we are underway assembling components to get Cera's together. Had another 10 or so ship out today.
All these latching switch ideas are pretty cool i must say, I cant wait to start seeing some of your custom additions to Cera!
A couple of very important and useful points, IMO, I hope folks appreciate them? I just got a sample of the -PD version and a couple of quick checks seems to confirm Brother Haywood's 'take'. The -PD is a serious contender, which the -B (and the -A) were not. Freshly charged, it's hard to tell the difference between the -CH and the -PD. I'm a little concerned about the lack of protection board, running it down past 2.5 Volts could be very bad, but if a guy's paying attention that shouldn't happen. Adding the board, it seem, introduces too many losses to make Cera really happy.
I also think the advice on going under 3.3 Volts with LL is spot on. Performance really suffers with LL but switching to an oil cart shows little problem and lets you vape a fair bit more before charging. This last part, the ability to 'limp along pretty good' on a weak battery is a trap sometimes, it can get a guy to throw too much concentrate in thinking it's running dry. You still have a dead battery of course, but now you have a flooded cart to deal with, too. The best advice here is, I think, unless you're absolutily sure the battery is fresh enough, suspect a weak battery before low oil.
Anyway, as of right now I'm still a big fan of the 2250mAh -CH version. IMO it's a top pick. The -PD shows promise (and TV did qualify it) but for now I'd like to see some more testing (under real field conditions to include the deep discharge issue). No doubt about it, TV did some homework picking batteries, buying 'superior' ones based on published specs is a risk as I see it.
My mod works great. It was what I was using when i made vid#3. Q was dead on in that as soon as I screw it in the connection is made and im good to go. I unscrew it a bit to break the connection. Can't get much easier than this and still make it look good. I've been using it for all my cores now. I quite like it for it's simplicity until I can make a real latching switch.
Please share the materials used, how much material is used, best way to put it on. This will help a lot of people do the same thing. Thanks.
All of you people drooling over the Panasonic CGR18650CH batteries had better snap up whatever you can find, because they've been discontinued. They were the best for this sort of purpose without a doubt. Those are the batteries I used to beta test the FV Stage 2 kit.
I talked to TET today and I will be getting the 2900 battery, what is all this talk about protected and unprotected, yes I'm a noob. Well if TV is supplying it with the Cera it must be safe or if it messes up still under warranty? I really have no idea what I'm talking about what is the risk?
Found this (19mm SPST switch) on a website and Im thinking about ordering it as a possible latching switch.
It came across this and other switches on a website by the name of mouser, Im not exactly sure if this switch is compatible though, how exactly would I know without actually ordering it ad testing to see if it fits or conducts properly?
Its 19mm, rating of 48V DC, 2 A
It's a tad weak I'm afraid. TV Tim originally posted that 2A was sufficient, but then revised (I believe OF also chimed in on this matter) the MINIMUM to be 4-5A @36V. 19mm Panel Mount and no longer than 27mm. I guess our search continues?....
The discharge curves I have are for the protected versions of the -PD (and the -B). I think using an unprotected (non-IMR) battery is a very BAD idea. The curves I sent you with the -PD were with a protection circuit installed on the top of the cell. If one were foolhardy enough to run the -PD without protection, it actually does better than the -CH. Not much longer, but about 0.14v higher throughout the discharge. I'll send you the curves for the -PD with and without the protection circuitry.
I'm willing to speculate that TET will not be selling unprotected -PD cells, but I have no inside info about this. Their original word, before they discovered the -PD cells couldn't be delivered in time, was that they were having a custom designed protection circuit made for them.
Again, I couldn't agree more. The concentrate is in the oven, not sitting above it; it's not being vaporized by hot air going through it, it's being vaporized by the heat all around it. I haven't done any measurements, but I suspect that the EO core (and e-juice core) will probably work just fine down to 3.1v or so. Checking out the intensity of the coil glow, as well as how long it takes to start glowing from cold, is how I judge when the problem is low (not dead, just low) battery as opposed to low concentrate.
I ordered a bunch of -CH batteries a month ago, when I got wind that they were being discontinued by Panasonic. They're sitting in my drawer with a storage charge on them (50%, as I recall). I always prefer IMR type cells to begin with, and these are really outstanding cells for almost any use. Shame that Panasonic is discontinuing them, probably due to low sales compared to the rest of their line. "Well, 3400 must be better than 2250, right?" sigh.
About the only place that the -B cells and their close cousins might be better is with a voltage regulated vape, where the regulator keeps the voltage where it belongs as the cell drops in voltage, especially when it goes below 3.2v. One could probably get 10% more life with the -B (over the -CH) in that case, but not more, because while the -B still has reasonable capacity left between 3.0v and 3.2v, at 3.0v the regulator is going to be drawing over 6A out of the poor -B cell, which is right at its 2C limit. Not a nice thing to be doing to your batteries on a regular basis.
I would like to know if Thermovape would be willing to share the research they have already done on latching switches in detail. For example, what switches were considered but ruled out and why. I think it would be a great help to pick up where they left off than having to start by our own trial and error. I can't find many switches that don't require bulk purchases of 50 or more.
Swell, isn't that the way it is? Murphy never misses and easy bet like that I guess. Dozens of types to pick from, and they drop the hot ticket for our narrow use.
Thanks, Pak. Might be a good time to stash one or two?
That doesn't matter, this is cutting edge stuff, ever changing. There are, I think, two key points to keep in mind. First is we put a very big demand on the battery in terms of flat out power, we demand stuff that's normally part of tradeoffs given for other characteristics. Secondly, we want it to provide this unmatched performance forever between charges.
Oh, yeah, we want it cheap, too.
Some types of batteries must never be fully discharged. These same types also provide the best "energy density" (power per pound if you will). So cell phones and laptops (as well as cameras and so on) use this high energy density type, but use circuits to shut it down if the battery gets weak (sometimes happens with cell phones I'm told?).
The real danger with this kind of battery is if it's part of a pack and it's the weak one (one has to go flat first....), the others can force current through it, basically trying to charge it backwards.....not successfully, but enough to keep the owner wondering why the lights are dim. In our case, having only one battery in use at one time, there is no chance of this really deadly situation. Still, I think, if a guy got err..r.r.rr distracted(?) and kept the power button on (like if he had a latching switch, maybe?) taking it under 2.5 Volts is considered bad for it's lifespan.
Back to the first point. We not only want four or more Amps but we want it delivered without 'voltage sag under load'. That voltage sag represents power lost heating the battery. If it sags 10%, 90% of the power produced is delivered where we want it, 10% is heat in the battery.....exactly where we don't want it. Not only don't we get to make vapor with it (the whole goal originally for most of us) but it is very bad for the battery as well. Double loose.
So, using Longshoreman Logic, we demand more to be sure of getting what we really want. We want/need five, so look to batteries rated for 10 Amps. This makes the shopping much easier, really, there are two batteries on that list. The one that doesn't need protection goes maybe 20 minute or a little more, the other closer to half an hour with the same power levels. One is pretty much bomb proof, the other is likely to loose capacity if you deep discharge it too often. Once deep enough (like to zero?) could well be enough. Adding the protection circuit negates this 10 Amp feature we crave.
Or so it seems right now. At least to me.
Bottom line is either is a great choice (go figure), a cut above the others in the brute power arena and both should give long service with reasonable care on your part. IMO both are worthy choices for Cera.
First off, howdy, good to meet you! Do you have yours yet?
As to the question, I seriously doubt it. First off, it's often part of the NDA (non disclosure agreement) you enter into with vendors, they swear you to absolute secrecy first before they talk fancy stuff like this so they can keep customers from exchanging pricing and beating them up. TV would be bound by those contracts for some period forward. Secondly, for a host of reasons (some of which I'm sure you can spot) that's not good 'business sense', in fact quite the opposite. Investors tend to shy away from companies that tell their competition the 'intellectual property' that gives the company value. To the bean counters, that's exactly what that to us very useful information is. They paid for it, they want you to pay at least as much to get it.
So, while it'd be very nice, I wouldn't hold my breath.
We know plenty to go forward. Package, size and electrical specs. Funny how search engines don't find a ready fix even when the 'made in USA' filter is take off?
Thanks for all the replies. The mix probably was not as dry as could be or moist as could be. I cut the mix finely with scissors but i do have the round grinder so will try it with that also. I dont have a WP but i would say it would be ideal (with adapter) because you would not get the heat from the mouth piece. Does anyone have the /a link to a simple, cheap and effective water pipe and where could i get the adapter to fit air tight? I am trying to source a switch from a large component company in Sydney i will get back to you if i have any luck They did say they had illuminated ones also a bit of da ja vu re initial order! Is it possible to remove the switch from the SS housing or would i have to get the housing remade by fitter and turner or similar (if replacement switch was available?) Thanks
Can the panasonic 2250mah battery be a flat top? Or must it be the button top?
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