The Toasty Top

[Alan]

Rick - I plugged the .5 amp power supply while it was hot, but then later tried it from a cold start. It did heat it up to the same temp, but it is not quite as hot as the 1.5 amp power supply. You can get vapor from it but it is not as quite as thick when comparing with the 1.5 amp. I will not be recommending the .5 amp power supply for normal Toasty Top operation. It is close, but not quite enough for me. The 1 amp Zap power supply does have enough as mom has demonstrated. Will be interesting to see how well a .8 amp power supply works.

Orestes - I have connected my Toasty Top directly to a 12 volt 5 amp hour power wheels battery and it lasted almost 4 continuous hours starting with it hot. Polarity of the wires don't matter.

 

[Ed's TnT]

Wow TV, I am just now seeing this thread, its great bro!!! I really like the way your going, the site is very informative and easy to navigate, thats what its all about! This is awesome I wish you much luck with all of it. Really like your tubes also, I like the screw off idea for cleaning, that is the shit!

Good luck!!!

 

[Lycanthrope]

TV, I really like the appearance of this vape, it's completely unique. The fact that it's made of beautiful wood makes it even more attractive to me. Ive been looking for another vape to compliment my MZ but it must be wood. This one certainly fit's. Ive been following two other newly introduced wood vapes, but the Toasty Top looks better to me if for anything its shape/appearance and convenient size, not to mention all of the other really nice and innovative technical features.
I was wondering if the Toasty Top will run a bit hotter as it gets "broke in" like the MZ and PD do. My MZ certainly runs hotter now than it did when I got it about a year ago. In fact, I could tell that it ran a bit hotter after about 3-4 months of use. Do you have any ideas concerning what other woods you may choose?

 

[Alan]

Thanks Ed - Thought you would appreciate the roasting tube tips. I wanted to make it as easy as possible to clean.

Lycanthrope - The "break in" is a very interesting question. Have been wondering that too. This design will cause some charring of the wood. It is unavoidable. This is why I prefer woods for smoking meat. What happens to the thermal properties of wood when it becomes charred? Well, I looked into it. Why can people walk across hot coals and not burn their feet? The answer is because the charcoal insulates almost 4 times better than hardwood. Given the fact that charcoal is a better insulator than wood, there may indeed be a "break in" period as the wood becomes more charred and provides better insulation. Will continue to investigate. I have some very nice cherry wood that I will try next.

This is a good opportunity to talk about wood. Anyone who has worked with it knows how water can play hell with wood.

Here is an except from my website:
"Wood has a relationship with water that affect its physical dimensions. It will attain equilibrium with the atmospheric humidity at room temperature and expand or shrink the wood. During the creation of the Toasty Top, the wood was as dry as possible since the wood will be in this dry state whenever the Toasty Top has been operating for a several hours / days. The heat sink and sleeve are pressed tightly into the dry wood. This will ensure that the heat sink remains firmly in the top when the wood is dry from operation. It is designed to be energized 24/7 and always be ready for use. If the Toasty Top is left at room temperature in a humid environment, the wood can expand and allow the heat sink and sleeve to become loose. To shrink the wood so that it is tight again, ensure the heat sink is fully inserted and heat the top to operating temperature for a few hours."

I thought about using a clip to hold the heat sink and sleeve in place, but prefer to allow the wood to hold it. This way when the Toasty Top does fall (you know it will happen) and hit the floor, there won't be a clip to tear the wood and the heat sink can be pressed back in place.

 

[Orestes]

Got my top today!


I am extremely pleased. The first rip nearly took my head off. The Top really seems like a complete evolution of the log vape.

And thanks to alan for answering questions. I didn't know that the heater needed to be seated; it arrived with a bit of jangling metal. But I pushed it down a bit and the thing is totally stable and perfect.

I need to find a right-angle adapter that fits. I'm just using my zapadapter (zapapter?). So it sits in the stand, but at an angle. And i can't use the oil cup to melt the crazy aroma beads included wiht the zap.

It does seem to run hotter than my walnut zap. But my zap isn't always quite as hot as i'd like so i'm not complaining.


The ABV looks similar, but slightly more grey (not darker) than that from my zap. Well maybe it is darker. I've only done the one stem, though everything about this vape seems categorical to me... In fact i'm starting to dubt the efficacy of my zap at this point (kidding, but i've had a head cold for the past week so my medications have not been working as well so i'm angry at the world)

 

[lwien]

The Top really seems like a complete evolution of the log vape.

A complete evolution denotes that this vape is an "advancement" over the current designs, and a "complete" advancement at that. Please explain why you believe this to be true rather than the Top being just an alternative to the current designs.

 

[Orestes]

My top is working so well.

Vapor channel is larger, though the tube itself is smaller. The stainless stem is a bit wider than the PD/Zap stems, and slightly longer.

I have absolutely no concerns about the temp. I'm nowhere near combustion. The ABV is golden, and the smell exhaled is ABV. but the taste is solid.

I've had no need to 'toast the marshmallow' as MOG put it. I've had no need to take hits longer than maybe 5 seconds, too.


well played alan!

 

[Alan]

I'm glad you are pleased with your Toasty Top Orestes. I forgot to tell you how deceptive the first hit can be. Many people trying it for the first time don't think they are getting anything until it is too late and they have taken too big of a hit.

 

[Orestes]

The Top really seems like a complete evolution of the log vape.

A complete evolution denotes that this vape is an "advancement" over the current designs, and a "complete" advancement at that. Please explain why you believe this to be true rather than the Top being just an alternative to the current designs.

stainless steel tubes with unscrewable stems. Big plus.
Slightly wider inner diameter of tubes, better (IMO) screen. Same as is used by Ed in his Zap tubes. Thinner wire; less stuff ruining screens.
Recessed heating fixture-- No need to worry about that wobbling around
ergonomics-- It's really nice to hold.
Furthermore, the top is a perfect shape shape to insulate heat towards the top. It's a great heatsink, and it makes more sense than a plain log.

and log vapes are pretty simple implicitly so there's not much to improve on. Thus this TT is a significant advancement

 

[Orestes]

OK, the TT stem bowls are about 1mm longer than those found on the standard plastic tubes that come with the zap. And maybe .5mm larger in diameter.


Loading technique-- Suck herb into bowl using tube as straw. Give it a light tap, jam in to the TT. With the zap I try to leave a bit of empty space on top but this is fine filled to the brim. Weird. I will try packing it n a bit next round, even.


The herb was ground and dryed in the aroma therapy cup, last night, so its totally ready to be vaped.

 

[Alan]

The outside diameter of the roasting tube is approximately 0.313"

Orestes - have you tried the Marshmallow Roasting technique to get more hits?

 

[Orestes]

Definitely getting more hits with a bit of care.

I've had 2 and a half stems in all and i'm pretty faded. About to eat some food so i can get some work done.

I have a radioshack down the street, i'll stop in later to grab a right angle adaptop, thanks alan,

BTW I'd say I have an above average tolerance. I've been medical for 6 years, with combustion I'd use about a gram per day. Sooo much less since going combustion-free. But I was having trouble getting faded with my LB/Zap.

Adding kief helped. But I'm out of kief, though now I guess I don't need it.
And this is some bargain bin 'Willie's Wonder'. I ground up a nug last night, maybe .25g... Should get me through tomorrow. How absurd is that

 

[Lycanthrope]

Question, when the roasting tube is inserted into the heat exchanger is it a relatively tight press fit or a loose fit. When the Toasty Top is turned upside down will the roasting tube fall out or stay put?

The more that I hear about this the more I like it.

 

[Orestes]

BTW this is perfect for bong rips. Just not right out of the box, cause the vapor tubes are too small-- Which is increasingly one of my favorite things, btw. The tube is not much larger than a cigarette. Feels great in the mouth.

You just need a rubber grommet. Home Depot. Or some headshops may carry them for standard (non GoG) bongs. I need to get one, hah... but the TT is ideal cause you can get a ton of milk; of that much i am certain


edit: Werewolf: Yes the tube will fall out if you turn it upside down. I just tried for curiosity's sake and if fell out about 15 degrees from vertical. The gap is not large. small enough that providing a relative spatial comparison is difficult. Though i wonder if it adds to the convective power of the thing by providing a more direct air channel? hm.

 

[momofthegoons]

Lycanthrope, I do think you would like this vape. It's very well made.

 

[Alan]

I put one of the poly mouthpiece into some 3/8" silicone tubing from my easy vape and the outside diameter measured 13mm. A short section of 3/8" silicone tubing on the end of a poly mouthpiece tube may work with a 14 mm gong. Wish I had a 14mm gong to try.
The outside of the 3/8" silicone tubing is 12.5mm with the glass mouthpiece inserted.

The fit of the roasting tube into the heat sink tube is primarily so they don't get stuck together. It would require very precise machining to get a perfect metal fit. I'm not that good.
When I place the roasting tube only part way into the heat sink tube, it allows some room air into the roasting tube. If the air is moving very fast (keeping good airflow), it can't turn direction around the end of the roasting tube fast enough to keep from mixing with the hot air in the heat sink. More turbulence in the airflow, will allow more heat transfer. That is also why the torturous path through the washers transfer heat so well.

 

[tron]

I have been following this board for a few months. This is my first post.
I was going to get a different "log vape" but a buddy of mine told me about the Toasty Top. I found one at a shop in Denver, I picked it up about a 2 weeks ago and all I can say is WOW.
I am really happy with the build quality. the packaging it came was just a box, definitely more time was spent on making a great product than a fancy package but that's what really counts to me.
I have used other vapes (hot box, volcano, home made crap) and I can say this is the best unit so far.
My wife that does not enjoy the smell of burning herb says that this smells fine... even when sitting right next to me using it! I wish i had one when I was in college.
The only "complaint" I have is it is so efficient that I am not able to buy new herb. this thing is going to save me a ton of money.
great job Alan

 

[gvape]

Wow those tubes are a lot smaller than I was thinking they were gonna be. Interesting to see that the tubes are smaller, but the bowl is just a tad bigger.

Glad to see that you got the vape at a shop in Denver Tron. Its nice to see that the TT is not just being marketed off the internet. Looks like I am ready to pull the plug and order one. Ill throw up a review and a TON of pictures when I end up getting the unit. Oh what a bad spending habit I have for vapes...

 

[SD_haze]

If you took .1g of properly cured topshelf bud, and ran it through a PD/zap and a Toasty Top, is there an efficiency difference?

 

[momofthegoons]

IMO, the efficiency is the same between the TT and the Zap, especially if you are careful with your roasting method. If you use the "marshmallow" method, you will get several good hits off of one stem full. If you just stick the tube into the heat exchanger and go, you will get less hits resulting in less efficiency. The real difference seems to be how vaped the herb is when finished. It is browner with the TT than with the Zap.

 

[Orestes]

IMO, the efficiency is the same between the TT and the Zap, especially if you are careful with your roasting method. If you use the "marshmallow" method, you will get several good hits off of one stem full. If you just stick the tube into the heat exchanger and go, you will get less hits resulting in less efficiency. The real difference seems to be how vaped the herb is when finished. It is browner with the TT than with the Zap.

I disagree... If I get fewer hits, they are significantly larger and I get massively baked. Efficiency is less about temperature than the vapor path and convection style. Given the slight wiggle room in the stem, the TT has slightly better convection, too. So it's equal to or better than a zap regardless of how one hits it.

But both are super efficient. THe ABV from one cannot be re-vaped in the other, because they are both extremely efficient.

 

[Lycanthrope]

Using my MZ an oz. of herb lasts me about 5 months, as I only use about 1/2 to 3/4 of a full stem load of Super Skunk. This amount really gets the job done for me. I have found that the 3 most important parameters for getting good long thick draws from my MZ are: density of stem packing, dryness of your herb, and draw technique. I would imagine that those same parameters also apply to the TT. I would continue to load the TT roasting tube as I do my MZ stem. Like Mom said, using the "marshmallow" method works well getting more draws while providing reasonably thick vapor. Applying all of these techniques I should achieve the same or even better efficiency than my MZ while not sacrificing build or materials quality. I would never purchase any vape that wasn't wood, and the TT seems to have everything that's important to me along with quality materials and build with its unique appearance.

Mom, your right about me liking this vape.

 

[Alan]

There have been some questions asked regarding having too much amperage available for the Toasty Top.
Here is an analogy to better understand power, voltage and amperage.

Power is the amount of water you can force through a certain size pipe as it falls from a waterfall.
Voltage is the height of the waterfall.
Amperage is the flow rate of water over the waterfall.
Resistance is the size of the pipe.
The *heating element* is the pipe.
Only so much water flow rate can be forced through a certain size pipe at a given waterfall height. The extra flow rate is available (but not used) in case you have a bigger diameter pipe. Power can be increased by either getting a larger pipe or making a taller waterfall. If you make the waterfall twice as high, you only need half as much water flowing into the pipe for the same power level. The more you force water through the pipe, the hotter it gets. Having more water flow rate available does not make it hotter. The inside diameter of the pipe gets a bit smaller as it gets hotter which reduces the amount of water you should be able to force through it. If there is not enough water flow rate for a given pipe size and waterfall height, the power will be limited.

 

[guardian]

hey tv if ordered via email do you use paypal or? and also what dimensions of wood can u turn a toasty top from? theres a rare piece im eyeing online and most log vapes are about 2.5" dia this piece is 2.75"x2.75"x7.5" but if i ever were to request a custom would a turning blank of that size be enough for 2 tries? thanks :edit: awsome thanks for the answers

 

[Alan]

guardian - I do take paypal if you would like to order one. The wood for a Toasty Top is approximately 2.75" x 2.75" x 3.5". I like to keep the diameter at or larger than 2.75", so that piece may work. I may be up for some custom work.

Thanks