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The Toasty Top

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by Alan, Jun 1, 2011.

  1. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    Orestes - Sorry to hear about your glass tube. You do have to treat them with care. It is best not to take them apart for cleaning. Cotton swabs and alcohol will clean up anything left in the tube after rinsing with alcohol in the protective poly tube. I do sell replacement glass tubes for $10 which include a new silicone seal and a protective poly tube. You re-use the stainless steel parts from the broken tube. Stretch the new silicone seal over the stainless steel tube and adjust so the edges are even. Wet the silicone and gently rock it into the glass tube. Very cool to see how you have adapted the stainless steel roasting tube to Ed's wood tube. It will fit into anything with a 1/4" hole.

    biojuggernaut - The wood Toasty Tubes are $30. The poly and gas Toasty Tubes are $20. The poly tube would probably work the best for a down stem as they are stronger than glass. A short section of 3/8" silicone tubing stretched over the poly tube gives it a diameter of approximately 13mm or 1/2". The silicone tubing stretched over the wood Toasty Tubes should work as well.

    I have successfully vaporized hash in my Toasty Tubes. I use the pointy end of a bamboo skewer to poke holes for air to flow through. I also use the bamboo skewer to stir and aerate the herb in the Toasty Tube. When the screens eventually do get clogged, I reposition the screen so it sets edgewise in the Toasty Tube and draw hot air over it. The clogged part of the screen (edges) is now in the hottest airflow (center of the tube). Rotate the screen a few times so all edges see the hot air flow. I usually get several good hits from the screen. It make a very efficient roasting tube even more efficient. The screen can now be brushed clean and re-installed. A clean screen give the best performance.
     
  2. Orestes

    Orestes Magus Septimus

    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Wales
    I've been putting far too much effort in to this... I dropped my hash in ithe aromatherapy cup, let it soften up for a few minutes, then just pulverized it, tiny little particles. Earwax (stable hash oil) i'm just mixing in with my ground bud until there is no actually exposed stickiness; i just work it in with the ground bud really well, a process again aided by heat.

    Plus there's always the screen bed method-- In this case, shape some standard screens in to cones, layer, and let your concentrate melt in to the screen; should combust before it hits the important screens, in the stems.


    Alan-- Have you spoken to any blowers regarding custom, cool looking tubes? It would be child's play. You could have something pretty, nice and thick, for like $40. I know a custom blower who is working on a tiny, durable, colorful project at the moment: Trippytips.com.
    Drop him an email: trippytips AT gmail.com. This guy is extremely skilled. He's making tips for e-cigs, mouthpieces that are about an inch long, but they're solid, functional, and just mindblowingly detailed. I've bought 5 already...
     
  3. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    I saw you mention Trippy Tips on another post Orestes and found he is from Colorado. I really like his work. I thought what could be better than a Trippy Tip on a Toasty Tube. It would be perfect for a Toasty Top. So I contacted him. Hopefully we can work something out. I would like to talk with anyone who wants try making a glass mouthpiece for the Toasty Tubes.
     
    ogcook likes this.
  4. psyshaman

    psyshaman Vapor Viking

    Messages:
    230
    Location:
    Down Under
    Cool looking vape you've created there Allan, the idea of custom glass made by the man at trippy tips seems like a prefect match to the Toasty top indeed. Another idea would be to get a custom glass roasting tube with a 14mm glass on glass end for the folks interested in vaporboning..... Plug it straight into the diffuser for Toasty Tripped Bong Rips!
     
  5. Lycanthrope

    Lycanthrope King Of The Loons

    Messages:
    206
    Location:
    Netherworld
    I just had an idea. Put a ~45 degree angle to the stainless connecting tubes where it goes into the Toasty Tubes. This would require a bit longer length of the connecting tube, but not by much. This would provide a bit of an angle to make it a bit more comfortable to use. The MyrtalZap glass Tooty stems utilize this concept incorporating the angle into the stem ~45 degrees. If you go to the MyrtalZap (Aroma zap) site youll see a few pics of the angled glass Tooty stems. The biggest problem that I see would be getting the 45 degree bend in the stainless connecting tube without crimping. This would add another variation to the Toasty Tube lineup. All of this of course may be a bigger pain in the ass than its worth. :(
     
  6. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    Thanks psyshaman. There are a lot of possibilities if I can find some glass artists that want to give it a try.

    Thanks for the suggestions Lycanthrope. I'm always looking to make improvements or enhancements.

    I have heard that my roasting tube tips will not fit in the other log style vaporizers. I may be able to make some custom size roasting tube tips. I just need a diameter accurate to three decimal places. Mine are .313 inches.
     
  7. budballer

    budballer Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    128
    question. where do you get the steel for the heat exchanger?
     
  8. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    I used to get the stainless steel for the heat exchangers from the hardware store. Now I get it online.
     
  9. gvape

    gvape Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    514
    Been meaning to do a review but been way to busy with work.

    Quick few notes:
    1. Unit not only runs hotter then the PD, but it feels MUCH hotter to the hand.
    2. Much Larger Hits and More per stem compared to PD
    3. Darker ABV than PD... All my stems are browned much more in center than edges.

    I got a bunch of pictures I took that I haven't been able to post yet. Hopefully able to do this all this week. Have not really been able to play with the unit too much though. Not sure how much of a fan I am of the marshmallow technique either. Kind of a pain to not insert it all the way. Just feels much more comfortable to do so.
     
  10. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    Thanks for the feedback gvape. Great way for me to make improvements.

    I was reading another thread about containers for cleaning vapor tubes with alcohol. The protective poly tubes I use for my glass tubes work great for cleaning, but are too small for my poly tubes. I found they make a larger size poly tube that will accept my poly Toasty Tubes. The inside diameter of the poly tubes is just a hair over 1/2". Perfect for cleaning the poly and also glass tubes with alcohol. Very little alcohol is required and it makes it easier for recovery of the residue. The smaller poly tubes even fit inside the larger ones. There is also no smell from your dirty roasting tubes when stored in the poly tubes.
    I will be providing a larger storage tube with the purchase of each roasting tube. The glass tube also gets the smaller protective poly tube. I included the battery in the photo for a better size comparison.
    The wooden tubes should not be cleaned in the poly tubes with alcohol. Cotton swabs soaked in alcohol can be used to clean the inside of the wooden tubes. Beeswax melted with your finger on the Toasty Top can be worked into the wooden tube to keep it conditioned and looking good.

    [​IMG]

    Thanks for the purchase biojuggernaut. I will sell the cleaning tubes separately. I bought the poly tubes in bulk so I'm not sure where else they might be available individually.
     
  11. biojuggernaut

    biojuggernaut Snob

    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington 98133
    just purchased my TT from Alan. Extremely good communication and one hell of an easy transaction! Cant wait to get it in the mail!


    Alan is there any way to purchase those tubes from you in the future or can you post what site you currently buy the tubes from?


    Just started ripping the TT. WoOo0owzerz. Soo effective! Alan you have a great product here! Will buzz butter do the trick for the wood?
     
  12. Orestes

    Orestes Magus Septimus

    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Wales
    Wax is wax, ennit? But I like the beads of beeswax. like alan says on his website, it "will give you a chance to bond with your Toasty Top"

    BTW, I've dropped my Top quite a bit. Barely a nick on 'er. Though I did Burst one of my wood tubes. But with a careful and judicious application of glue, it's good as new.
    It mostly falls off its stand because I haven't yet found a right angle plug, so it's sitting off-kilter in the stand; unbalanced.

    Also, alan, i've had no need to use the silicon ring, though i've played around with it a bit. I don't think you really want or need a seal; it's obstructing an extremely small air channel aroudn the tube that is just adding to the convective process.

    Thanks to the friction created between machined steel parts, I just jam it in and it stays put until it tastes a bit kicked; Then I nudge it forward a bit, and once more, until it's all the way in.

    Still loving it!
     
  13. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    Pleased to hear you like the TT biojuggernaut. Thanks again. It does give some great hits. Curious to how the poly tube with silicone tube fits into the 14mm. I have never tried the buzz butter, but it should work fine. I like how the beeswax bee'ds melt into the wood with your fingertips. It is a nice way to connect with the wood which will darken over time and use.

    Glad to hear you are still loving the TT Orestes. Nice to hear it is holding up well. Good job with the tube repair. Thanks for trying the o-ring. Always fun to try new things. You never know what you might discover. I do like the close fit of the roasting tube into heat sink tube that allows temperature changes by mixing in some room air. It allows you a fairly wide range of roasting temperatures.
     
  14. Orestes

    Orestes Magus Septimus

    Messages:
    117
    Location:
    Wales
    Just got an opportunity to install a new screen. What a breeze!
    I just unscrewed the bowl and popped out the screen.
    I had some SS pipe screens sitting around, so I just quartered one and used the old screen as a template. Took two tries to get it right. Then I just popped the new screen in. Working perfectly!

    Plus, the whole process took under 5 minutes. And yea... I was vaping a mix that included some granulated hash. If I'm anal and put a tiny bit of untainted bud on the bottom the screens will last longer.... But I just suck up the mix through the straw and start vaping. So i'm glad the screens are so easy to change!
     
  15. biojuggernaut

    biojuggernaut Snob

    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington 98133
    TT I personally like the silicon ring that goes around the poly tube. Orestes is right by saying that it does restrict air flow but I think it helps with the high vapor to low air ratio. Idk all I know is my mini tubes, beakers, and bubblers love this little dude. I do too :ko:

    However, I will remove that ring and try a couple of stems for yall anyways and report my findings!

    Also, Alan that yellow bag of beads is inceanse right?
     
  16. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    biojuggernaut - The little bag contains beads of pure beeswax. They melt very easily on the hotter parts of the top. Don't drop any onto the heat sink. Just smash one onto the hot wood on the sides of the top and spread the liquid wax as it melts. You can use them when you feel the wood is getting dry or could use a little more shine. It gives the Toasty Top a warm beeswax smell. You should never smell any hint of burned wood.

    Good to know that the poly tubes fit into a 14mm joint with the section of silicone tubing on them. Water filtration is always so nice.

    Orestes - Glad you are enjoying the threaded roasting tube design for screen access. I sometimes have to just burn screen to get all the gunk from it. Then it all shakes right off. As long as there are no holes poked in the screen, it should last quite a while. Nice that you can just make your own whenever you need one. I use a 1/4" punch and get 7 (if I'm careful) from a 3/4" pipe screen.
     
  17. VWFringe

    VWFringe Naruto Fan

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    South Orange County, CA
    are the stems made out of stabilized wood, like wooden pen blanks?
    if not how do you avoid checking? I thought all woods get checking along their grain as they lose moisture with age?
     
  18. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    I haven't tried stabilized wood for the mouthpieces. It should work well. There are so many possibilities with pen blanks. I have been using wood that was sealed and dried slowly for several years. Checking occurs when the wood initially dries too quickly or non-uniformly. The stress created from the uneven drying tears the fibers apart. If the wood has been dried without creating stress in the wood, there should be no more cracking or checking as it gets older.
    Some woods just have a weaker grain structure and are more susceptible to cracking when force is applied. Oak just happens to be one that is more easy to crack.
     
    ogcook likes this.
  19. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    I have been curious to the actual internal temperature of the Toasty Top since it has been reported to be higher than the cylinder style vaporizers, so I bought a very accurate temperature probe.

    I took temperature readings on my Toasty Top with the probe between the heater and the heat sink in contact with both. I varied the voltage between 11 and 14. Here are the results in degrees F:

    11.0 - 335
    11.5 - 350
    12.0 - 360
    12.5 - 375
    13.0 - 388
    13.5 - 400
    14.0 - 410

    The temperature of the air passing through the roasting tube may be slight lower due to air mixing. My top has definitely been broken in. The temperatures explain why the taste degrades above 13.5 volts.
    The power supplies for the Toasty Top put out 12 volts and provide an internal temperature of around 360 degrees F.
     
  20. biojuggernaut

    biojuggernaut Snob

    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington 98133
    I read it would shorten the life. Obviously this rein true with any tool, but for us at home how could we increase the voltage? What ac input would we need to buy?


    Also Alan where can we get those bad ass screens you use. Im about to try my luck with titanium screens.
     
  21. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    Operating the heater at too high of a temperature for too long of time can shorten the life. The voltage should be adjusted only enough to give the desired temperature changes. There is no need to go above 400F. A variable voltage power supply with a voltage meter (0-15 max) will allow you to fine tune the temp. A power cord is needed from the power supply to the Toasty Top. I made mine using sturdy speaker wire and banana plugs. It is very important to always know what voltage you are applying.

    As far as screens, I just punch them from regular 3/4" stainless steel pipe screens. I wonder how my punch would hold up to titanium screens.
     
  22. Ed's TnT

    Ed's TnT Woodsman Manufacturer

    Messages:
    2,045
    Titanium screens do sound impressive though, I think I will look into those also!
     
  23. biojuggernaut

    biojuggernaut Snob

    Messages:
    1,058
    Location:
    Seattle, Washington 98133
    aqualabs push them at a steep 10 dollars. Anyone have any experience getting them anywhere else for cheaper?

    I too am worried about my cheap flimsy hole punch :uhoh: Good thing I will be purchasing the least dense screens. . .

    I am telling you though, you have gem screens in there my friend. All the smoke shops around here have either too dense or too flimsy wire.
     
  24. Alan

    Alan Master JedHI Manufacturer

    Messages:
    883
    I have been studying the properties of wood for the Toasty Tops and have discovered some interesting things. I went back to the basics of heat transfer and heat energy (HE) to understand what is happening. The HE is transferred in three ways; Conduction, Convection, and Radiation.

    Conduction transfers the most amount of HE and occurs in solid materials. Metals transfer HE the fastest. Hardwoods are also good conductors of HE. The amount of HE transferred depends primarily upon the thermal conductance of the material, the thermal mass, the difference in temperature, and the available transfer area. All wood conducts heat. Harder woods conduct heat faster.

    Convection transfers a moderate amount of HE and occurs in gaseous / liquid fluids. Liquids transfer HE faster than gaseous fluids. The amount of HE transferred depends upon several more factors including thermal conductance of the hot material, thermal conductance of the fluid, difference in temperature, surface roughness, velocity of the fluid, and the available surface area.

    Radiation transfers the smallest amount of HE and can occur even in a vacuum. The darkness of the two materials, the temperature difference, the distance apart, and the surface area are the main factors in Radiation HE transfer. The HE transfer only occurs between two solid materials. Air cannot be heated directly with radiation HE.

    All three types of HE transfer occur in the Toasty Top. The HE flow begins at the heating element since it has the highest temperature. It is conducted to the stainless steel heat sink via any contact from the heating element. Much of the HE is transferred to the stainless steel heat sink via convection in the small air gap. Some radiation transfer also occurs although the shiny stainless steel in not a good absorber of HE radiation. Conduction through the stainless steel takes the HE to the wood very quickly. The mass of the stainless steel heat sink also works well to store the HE. The hardwood transfers the HE to outer surface of the wood via conduction fairly quickly. The HE is transferred to the atmosphere via convection and a tiny bit of radiation from the wood and heat sink surfaces. The HE is also transferred to your hand via conduction. This is why it makes such a good hand warmer and heat massage device.

    The Toasty Top has less thermal mass and a smaller outer surface area than a cylinder of the same diameter. There is less wood and outer surface area available to transfer the HE to the atmosphere. The Toasty Top must attain a higher outer surface temperature to be able to transfer the same amount of HE as the cylinder and maintain the same HE flow rate. The internal temperature must also be higher. As the wood in direct contact with the stainless steel heat sink becomes Thermally Altered, it begins to lose some ability to transfer HE. The steady state internal temperature should theoretically rise a bit over time as the ability to transfer HE has been reduced.

    The air drawn into the roasting tube is heated as it flows over the surface of the hot stainless steel heat sink and heating element. A higher internal temperature, larger heat sink air flow surface area and turbulent air flow will increase the HE transfer rate. Convection is the only means of HE transfer from the heat sink to the air.

    A wood cylinder dissipates more HE and is a better heat sink than a Toasty Top of the same diameter and material. Therefore, the wood cylinder should have a lower internal temperature than the Toasty Top given the same HE input.

    I built a unit as a cylinder using the same wood (hard maple) and the same diameter as a Toasty Top to test my theory. The Toasty Top has an internal temperature of 360F with 12 volts applied. The cylinder has an internal temperature of 320F with 12 volts applied. I built another cylindrical unit, but removed rings of wood to reduce the area and thermal mass available to transfer the HE. It has an internal temperature of 400F with 12 volts applied, but the outside is barely warm. It has a greater outside surface area overall, but the area of wood available for conduction of HE away from the small central core is smaller. The leg supports allows either a right angle or straight power plug. The core temperature is too high for me. I will just need to adjust the number of rings and depth of cut to fine tune the core temperature when applying 12 volts. We now have the Toasty Tower.

    [​IMG]
    [​IMG]
     
    ogcook likes this.
  25. VWFringe

    VWFringe Naruto Fan

    Messages:
    935
    Location:
    South Orange County, CA
    that is so cool, the higher temp and the reading

    i wonder if it were a cup filled with vermiculite or broken charcoal around the heat exchange, if it would work any better or worse...? (not making a product request, just curious...and not thinking of making anything)

    when you say the temp is too high for you, is it because of any harshness to your lungs, or that you want to minimize the haze and body-high?

    thanks again for sharing that info!
     

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