Discontinued The Persei Vaporizer for herbs and concentrates.

[OF]

seriously.... carts dying and the double top not working. these are huge problems, how did the testing not figure this shit out? seems so simple, peoples carts died nearly instantly from fully charged batteries. how did this not get tested? and then the double top not working, what a joke. I'm sure they'll sort things out as well, but why werent they sorted out before the release? people who have been using their products are making changes to their instructions and guidelines to take better advantage of the carts and even prevent them from burning out. seems a little ridiculous that "bruno" came out with a better functioning chart so quickly and even makes suggestions that contradict the instructions for use given by the manufacturer

edit: those of us who bought the product are not supposed to be used as testers

I'm just guessing, of course, but you've never been involved with R&D stuff like this?

Nobody started out to screw up a detail, get real. There's a host of reasons problems like this show up on the road from concept to happy customers, the very reason there are experts at this sort of stuff out there, it's a too often needed skill. What is AQL (Acceptable Quality Level)? A question that never actually gets answered in most all cases. If you test say a dozen sets of prototype carts, batteries and chargers with no problems how do you know number 13 is in that group? Not an easy question. How do you forecast a year's use in a few weeks of testing? What happens when production starts and other guys hand build bunches of carts for you on the other side of the International Date Line? And more. All risks.

And let's take our share of the blame. IMO a large share is in order. Look back at the DEMANDS for updates that came at every opportunity to 'get to' THC with that self serving message? How do you think that impacts the testing? IMO it doesn't help. I use the term 'demand' advisedly since for sure there's not a single guy that thinks he's even remotely out of line for 'just asking', but put yourself in G's shoes for a minute. He's got a lot on his plate already you know..... Public messages that include 'all I want is...' are what I think MLK would term part of the problem, not the solution.

In the end it is what it is. We could have waited for a volcano or vapeman (and even they got updated models) or shared the risk of early (IMO minor) problems with a 'fast release' like this one. A chart change and some running adjustment to cover one mode of operation? Chump change, really. With very little fuss there are quick work arounds available for both issues until solution comes. Some will whine about the results, some will celebrate their courage for being 'an early adopter' others will have the warm satisfaction of letting some other guy take the risks and lumps until things sort out. In the end, I think I favor that second approach warts and all. With risk comes benefit if a sharp guy is lucky.

OF

 

[kuz]

Can you please tell me your configuration? Ie batteries, and what ohm cartridges? and are you using both cartridges at the same time? are both cartridges same ohms?

two 2.4 carts, 3.7 volts, the single 18650 battery. The charger had a green light, it charged overnight.

One cart in the double cart attachment worked.

4 ohm single cart with 7.4 volts worked great, but I didnt try the 18350 batteries with two 4 ohm carts.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

I'm just guessing, of course, but you've never been involved with R&D stuff like this?

Nobody started out to screw up a detail, get real. There's a host of reasons problems like this show up on the road from concept to happy customers, the very reason there are experts at this sort of stuff out there, it's a too often needed skill. What is AQL (Acceptable Quality Level)? A question that never actually gets answered in most all cases. If you test say a dozen sets of prototype carts, batteries and chargers with no problems how do you know number 13 is in that group? Not an easy question. How do you forecast a year's use in a few weeks of testing? What happens when production starts and other guys hand build bunches of carts for you on the other side of the International Date Line? And more. All risks.

And let's take our share of the blame. IMO a large share is in order. Look back at the DEMANDS for updates that came at every opportunity to 'get to' THC with that self serving message? How do you think that impacts the testing? IMO it doesn't help. I use the term 'demand' advisedly since for sure there's not a single guy that thinks he's even remotely out of line for 'just asking', but put yourself in G's shoes for a minute. He's got a lot on his plate already you know..... Public messages that include 'all I want is...' are what I think MLK would term part of the problem, not the solution.

In the end it is what it is. We could have waited for a volcano or vapeman (and even they got updated models) or shared the risk of early (IMO minor) problems with a 'fast release' like this one. A chart change and some running adjustment to cover one mode of operation? Chump change, really. With very little fuss there are quick work arounds available for both issues until solution comes. Some will whine about the results, some will celebrate their courage for being 'an early adopter' others will have the warm satisfaction of letting some other guy take the risks and lumps until things sort out. In the end, I think I favor that second approach warts and all. With risk comes benefit if a sharp guy is lucky.

OF

totally agree. haven't had any probs with my top or burnt carts. ( a little loose seating on one of the double connects, but works fine.) i have used 4 ohm carts on the double top and other than uneven draw (hoping for for custom mouthpiece for two carts) it hits fine. being an alpha consumer is always risky. ask anyone who bought a xbox 360 in the first 3 years. i actually said something earlier either here or on the omi thread about giving it a rest on the demands for updates about the hammer. something to the effect that the persei hadn't dropped yet so chill for a sec. these devices are obviously gonna run into some probs, but so did the omi. (had to have a pen replaced.)
EDIT
if you have any experience with e-cig style batteries and setups you would know that there is quite a lot of error in production. for what these guys are trying to accomplish in the current field you have to give them credit for even attempting to pull this off as well as addressing these issues directly

 

[Bob Loblaw]

on a secondary note i just got the nail dome from them for my stand up bubbler with quartz diffuser and other than my dabber tip broke , it hits phenomenally.
to illustrate i couldn't for the life of me figure out how to spell phenomenally without spell check.

 

[Bob Loblaw]

While this is true for the perfect battery (however, since the Ideal Battery Company of Duluth, the only known source of perfect batteries, is out of stock for some time now we'll have to use real batteries....)
OF

have no idea what the hell you guys are talkin' 'bout and i'll leave ya to it, but i have to ask a potentially stupid question. is there really an Ideal blah blah blah, perfect source or is that a socio-political comment as to all these batteries being made in China instead of America by a reputable company? or am i missing something else entirely

 

[SlideOrDie]

I am one affected by all of the issues that the Persei has had so far. From the prematurely fried carts, to the double top not working, to one of my tips not fitting the carts supplied.

To be honest, the way Delta9 and PLanetVape.ca are dealing with my problems so far has really impressed me to the point that I'm not one bit mad.

I just received my tracking number from PlanetVape for the replacement double top and carts this afternoon. That was FAST! Less than 24 hours!

Thank you PlanetVape!

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

two 2.4 carts, 3.7 volts, the single 18650 battery. The charger had a green light, it charged overnight.

One cart in the double cart attachment worked.

4 ohm single cart with 7.4 volts worked great, but I didnt try the 18350 batteries with two 4 ohm carts.

Ok so let me get this straight, 2 x 2.4 ohm at 3.7v did not work. Is it the blue battery? can you check and see if you have the 2 x 4 ohm at 7.4v work?

We have to see if the connectors are bad or wiring is wrong.

Try single cart on the double top, and try both connectors, see if they are firing the cart up.

Let me know.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Guys we are sorry for the issues and will handle it. We had tested the kits completely, but you have to understand it is a new product going into mass production. Yes we will have issues, and always will. Cant guarantee anything 100%

Please understand that we are here to fix all issues, and it would be impossible for us to account for everyone's techniques, oils, and other factors that come into play.

We did have a large tester base in house where many 4.0 cartridges have gone for weeks without issue. We only had 5 failures out of 100 cartridges tested at 7.4v

My only miss calculation was that our units where not always fully charged and we did not take into account that a fully charged 3.7v is actually 4.2 and putting two in the unit will bring it up to 8.4v our testing units where always half charged or almost charged as we needed to swap batteries out fast and did not allow full charges to happen.

This is a big screw up on my part as i did the final calculations and signed off on the printed material and production. I personally will address all issues on the Persei or any other model we have. As far as batteries not working, they do have a 14 day warranty period with original receipt.

 

[kuz]

Ok so let me get this straight, 2 x 2.4 ohm at 3.7v did not work. Is it the blue battery? can you check and see if you have the 2 x 4 ohm at 7.4v work?

Yes, thats right. Single cart works in the double configuration, put two carts in, then it doesnt work.

Good news. Two 4 ohm working with 7.4 volts.

 

[havealight101]

Yes, thats right. Single cart works in the double configuration, put two carts in, then it doesnt work.

Good news. Two 4 ohm working with 7.4 volts.

I can confirm this. I just tried 2 2.4 ohm carts on the 18650, and got a blink and thats it. 2 4 ohm carts work fine with the 18350's. Along with a single 2.4 cart works fine on the double top w/18350.

 

[JoeKickass]

I can confirm this. I just tried 2 2.4 ohm carts on the 18650, and got a blink and thats it. 2 4 ohm carts work fine with the 18350's. Along with a single 2.4 cart works fine on the double top w/18350.

That makes a lot of sense to me, I'm pretty sure the problem is the 18650 battery itself not being the high-discharge IMR variety...

A good test would be to try double 4 ohm carts on 3.7v or something higher than the battery rating, this way it won't sag the battery and should work if my hypothesis is correct.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Yes, thats right. Single cart works in the double configuration, put two carts in, then it doesnt work.

Good news. Two 4 ohm working with 7.4 volts.

Then what combination did not work?

 

[JoeKickass]

Yes, thats right. Single cart works in the double configuration, put two carts in, then it doesnt work.

Good news. Two 4 ohm working with 7.4 volts.

I can confirm this. I just tried 2 2.4 ohm carts on the 18650, and got a blink and thats it. 2 4 ohm carts work fine with the 18350's. Along with a single 2.4 cart works fine on the double top w/18350.

Then what combination did not work?

 

[OF]

have no idea what the hell you guys are talkin' 'bout and i'll leave ya to it, but i have to ask a potentially stupid question. is there really an Ideal blah blah blah, perfect source or is that a socio-political comment as to all these batteries being made in China instead of America by a reputable company? or am i missing something else entirely

Aside from my strange humor, it's a most real concept. The ideal source is just that, all the current you want, voltage never changes a bit for any reason. You can't buy them of course (Ideal Battery Inc isn't really real....) but it's the model you start with in design (typically called 'the first order model'). Then comes Thevenin (a dead guy if you want to go look him up) who proposed a new model, the 'Thevenin equivalent'. It's the ideal source (never varies) with a series 'resistance' (called Rth) in ohms that explains how the voltage sags with current drawn. This is by Ohm's law. That voltage, Vth, is subtracted from the ideal voltage you started with and it's what you 'see' on the terminals of the battery under load. That current times that Vth is also the power that's lost in the battery and causes the heating we're hoping to avoid.

This 'second order model' is generally considered close enough for jazz WRT designs of this sort. The third order has to include discussions of time.

High Rth is why, for instance, only some batteries will work for MFLB and TV. Other versions with higher internal resistances drop too much voltage (and therefore also heat too much) to work well.

So now you know too, aren't you glad you asked?

OF

Edit: I almost forgot, for those who don't like Thevenin (and there are lots of folks like that....), there's an alternative guy, Norton. He says it's all about current, not voltage. His model is an ideal current source at the maximum current with that same resistance (in Ohms) but now called Rn of course in parallel. This means you can get full voltage at no current (out, In (the Norton current) is still ideally flowing....) or zero voltage at full current (when the load is taking all the current and none flows through Rn), same answers Thevenin gives us, different way to get there. Most non physics guys like Thevenin, the 'particles and fields' guys seem to like Norton and current??? OF

 

[Jeppy]

Aside from my strange humor, it's a most real concept. The ideal source is just that, all the current you want, voltage never changes a bit for any reason. You can't buy them of course (Ideal Battery Inc isn't really real....) but it's the model you start with in design (typically called 'the first order model'). Then comes Thevenin (a dead guy if you want to go look him up) who proposed a new model, the 'Thevenin equivalent'. It's the ideal source (never varies) with a series 'resistance' (called Rth) in ohms that explains how the voltage sags with current drawn. This is by Ohm's law. That voltage, Vth, is subtracted from the ideal voltage you started with and it's what you 'see' on the terminals of the battery under load. That current times that Vth is also the power that's lost in the battery and causes the heating we're hoping to avoid.

This 'second order model' is generally considered close enough for jazz WRT designs of this sort. The third order has to include discussions of time.

High Rth is why, for instance, only some batteries will work for MFLB and TV. Other versions with higher internal resistances drop too much voltage (and therefore also heat too much) to work well.

So now you know too, aren't you glad you asked?

OF

Edit: I almost forgot, for those who don't like Thevenin (and there are lots of folks like that....), there's an alternative guy, Norton. He says it's all about current, not voltage. His model is an ideal current source at the maximum current with that same resistance (in Ohms) but now called Rn of course in parallel. This means you can get full voltage at no current (out, In (the Norton current) is still ideally flowing....) or zero voltage at full current (when the load is taking all the current and none flows through Rn), same answers Thevenin gives us, different way to get there. Most non physics guys like Thevenin, the 'particles and fields' guys seem to like Norton and current??? OF

Hey, you have a nice evenin.

 

[OF]

Hey, you have a nice evenin.

Thanks, same to ya. Not even close yet, just past four. I just got back from supervising the cats in the garden......it's going well, I think the evening will be nice as you suggest.

Some moon, eighwhat? Full last night, clear skys, way cool.

OF

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

Yes, thats right. Single cart works in the double configuration, put two carts in, then it doesnt work.

Good news. Two 4 ohm working with 7.4 volts.

Do you have the blue battery? or trust fire?

 

[bruno13]

I just want to say thank you THC and the omicron gang. The carts you designed are, to me, one of the greatest development in cannabis use. The persei is a big step in this deveolpment. The persei had a bumpy start but I am sure all will be corrected and everyone will be happy. Early adopters often discover problems not found in development. Customer service is and always has been exceptional at delta9vapes. Give them a chance, all will be well.

 

[StepInToSpace]

@THC - since you admitted a miscalculation, if I order more carts, will you throw in 2 4ohm carts to replace the 2 that fried. Either way, I agree with bruno13, this thing is revolutionary. Thank you and keep up the good work. I'm sold.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

We will not honor warranties on any ebay bought devices, amazon bought devices and any other website unless the seller is authorized by us.

We are putting a page up for Authorized sellers now.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

@THC - since you admitted a miscalculation, if I order more carts, will you throw in 2 4ohm carts to replace the 2 that fried. Either way, I agree with bruno13, this thing is revolutionary. Thank you and keep up the good work. I'm sold.

We will please contact us on our ticket system.

 

[havealight101]

Can you take a video and email it?

Hey, I just sent that to contact@delta9vapes.com. Edit: I guess its still sending, ill make sure it works within the hour.

 

[havealight101]

We will not honor warranties on any ebay bought devices, amazon bought devices and any other website unless the seller is authorized by us.

We are putting a page up for Authorized sellers now.

Sorry, off topic, will you accept 3rd party-out of state checks?

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

We will not honor warranties on any ebay bought devices, amazon bought devices and any other website unless the seller is authorized by us.

We are putting a page up for Authorized sellers now.

 

[THC SCIENTIFIC]

All Perseis will have serial numbers and we will start tracking them to the dealers, any dealer caught undercutting prices will not be allowed to purchase anymore.