The Magic-Flight Box

[JDR]

It is very possible to get potent and/or smoky hits with a more minimal impact to the throat. Note, I say minimal. I'm a singer and this is a big issue for me.

One of the tricks is the "fish-lips" approach a cm or two away from the short stem. The main skill that took me months to figure out with the mflb and others is to pull only hard enough to pull off the vapor that is coming off the herb. Pulling more/harder does not work with vaping. It either cools off your heating element or it pounds your throat and lungs with heat. It seems to take us long time smokers a while to work this pulling thing out of our system. If fact, some of the most mind-blowing hits you can get off an mflb are basically invisible, which is still hard for me to wrap my mind around in practice.

There are some vapes such as the PAX or the Solo that require some pulling. MFLB is not one of them. That said, if you grind your stuff up sufficiently and pull steadily through the MFLB adapter and a bubbler, you can get enormous clouds without burning your throat or your herb.

 

[pakalolo]

Nice! Ive actually never used a bong or bub without water. Wuts the point? Does it still cool significantly?

Don't answer that here. We have glass forums. Use them.

 

[JDR]

Per my previous post, the way to hone the only-pull-off-the-vapor skill with the MFLB is to use a 2-3 foot whip and watch the vapor come off the herb.. But you've eventually got to learn it by feel.

 

[Cereal_MF]

True. I feel like i managed to get good clouds pretty much the minute i got my mflb, but i personally see it as a totally different skill to be able to get pretty baked off only a third or even a quarter of a trench. I dunno about u ppl but ever since discovering how to really get baked w the box, ive been usin it daily!
In all honesty i put my boz down for a while until i tried my friends PAX, then i was like ohhh shit why dont i vape more often!

 

[Cereal_MF]

It is very possible to get potent and/or smoky hits with a more minimal impact to the throat. Note, I say minimal. I'm a singer and this is a big issue for me.

One of the tricks is the "fish-lips" approach a cm or two away from the short stem. The main skill that took me months to figure out with the mflb and others is to pull only hard enough to pull off the vapor that is coming off the herb. Pulling more/harder does not work with vaping. It either cools off your heating element or it pounds your throat and lungs with heat. It seems to take us long time smokers a while to work this pulling thing out of our system. If fact, some of the most mind-blowing hits you can get off an mflb are basically invisible, which is still hard for me to wrap my mind around in practice.

There are some vapes such as the PAX or the Solo that require some pulling. MFLB is not one of them. That said, if you grind your stuff up sufficiently and pull steadily through the MFLB adapter and a bubbler, you can get enormous clouds without burning your throat or your herb.

Thanks for the input! I too am shocked and awed at how some invisible hits can be more potent than cloudy hits (I can not verify that yet though).

I guess my thing is that I learned how to get a decently good amount of vapor cloud, but It must be the pulling technique that I use that makes it harsher than necessary... I'll try the "fishlips" technique; so just to make sure, youre saying to not even be touching the glass tube with my lips?

Per my previous post, the way to hone the only-pull-off-the-vapor skill with the MFLB is to use a 2-3 foot whip and watch the vapor come off the herb.. But you've eventually got to learn it by feel.

I might order a whip just for the sake of it. I kinda overlooked this aspect when ordering all the other stuff!

mod note: Back-to-back posts, merged. Please use the Edit feature, thanks.

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

Per my previous post, the way to hone the only-pull-off-the-vapor skill with the MFLB is to use a 2-3 foot whip and watch the vapor come off the herb.. But you've eventually got to learn it by feel.

I'm pretty exclusive with the whip and MFLB, when using glass. I've got a nice SSFG bedside bubbler, that my WPA is pretty much permanently attached to. However, its a small piece. Need a little bit of drag, to properly use the MFLB with glass, IMO.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

aaaand nevermind this post. didn't read earlier, thought I hit post before Paka's last post. On the plus, I'm going to the collective in a sec and will come back with pictures

 

[banana_republic]

Hello everybody,

I am absolutely in love with my MFLBox, it seems the more I had the chance to use it, more I learn, the better results I achieve... all those small details shared around here, like really fine grind, as dry as possible flowers, fresh batteries, micro hits ("kissing" the box) for sure helped me love and I'm enjoying it more and more...

On a local MJ forum I participate all the other guys keep saying and sharing info that MFLB does not work, they say it's some useless crap not woth even trying, and no matter how I try to tell them that the results are amazing but there's some learning curve, they seem to just want something that works instantly, magically or with no learning at all. I guess not seeing some giant-clouds is also something that bothers them , but for me it's exactly the opposite, the lack of giant vapour clouds increases the stealth aspect of it...

Well, so lets share some LOVE

Cheers!

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

One of the vapor converts I'm making, specifically likes the Box and hitting it with an acrylic stem, over the HI log vape and glass piece, I always bring over.

Nope, if the MFLB Is sitting out, he isn't ever shy about asking to hit it, which I happily share.

As for this small forum. Just give them the address to the portable vape forum and even check out the desktop. Ask them, why the MFLB is creeping up on 800 pages of LOVE? They won't have an answer. Tell them, what I always say. The Box is what the user makes it. If they bother to learn how to use it (which, my friend picked it up and hit a huge cloud, first time), it will serve their purposes. If they want an iPod... tell them to buy a Pax.

 

[Cereal_MF]

Hahahaha the box is totally what you make it. hint hint its not a bowl. if you wanna use it as a bowl, slide the cover and use a lighter! na that would be realllllly dumb!

 

[Puffers]

So if I strip a battery to use with my MFLB will only a rechargeable one work. If so why? Aren't rechargeable and non recharagble batteries basically the same as far as the box is concerned???

 

[OF]

So if I strip a battery to use with my MFLB will only a rechargeable one work. If so why? Aren't rechargeable and non recharagble batteries basically the same as far as the box is concerned???

Nope. Not even close. And only a small part of the rechargeable batteries will work. They have to be one of a few models of high capacity NiMH ones. Other brands will run hotter (themselves, self heating) and yet at the same time deliver less heat to the load for a shorter time.

Primary cells (like alkaline) aren't even in the running. We need like 15 Amps for the box, they can deal with a tenth that. Maybe.

Stick with the proven types. This is covered well in the wiki page, which IMO you should check out.

Good luck.

OF

 

[Puffers]

Nope. Not even close. And only a small part of the rechargeable batteries will work. They have to be one of a few models of high capacity NiMH ones. Other brands will run hotter (themselves, self heating) and yet at the same time deliver less heat to the load for a shorter time.

Primary cells (like alkaline) aren't even in the running. We need like 15 Amps for the box, they can deal with a tenth that. Maybe.

Stick with the proven types. This is covered well in the wiki page, which IMO you should check out.

Good luck.

OF

Thx OF i checked wiki when i first got it a yr ago didnt remember seeing that info though, did a google search and came up with squat. I used an energizer recharagble batt this morning worked great my other batteries got trashed from shorting out on my keys. They still hold voltage but dont discharge like they should anymore. I forgot about how efficient the box is compared to my ssv.

 

[OF]

Thx OF i checked wiki when i first got it a yr ago didnt remember seeing that info though, did a google search and came up with squat. I used an energizer recharagble batt this morning worked great my other batteries got trashed from shorting out on my keys. They still hold voltage but dont discharge like they should anymore. I forgot about how efficient the box is compared to my ssv.

Cool. There's a section (five) on the topic:
http://vaporpedia.com/wiki/Magic-Flight_Launch_Box#Batteries

Good stuff, IMO.

IIRC guys reported OK performance but short service life with those guys? It's an extremely demanding application, one I'm sure the battery maker would not support. Heat can be a real problem. Most of the ill hinges on a not specified specification, Internal Resistance. Not only the physical metals involved but the chemical ions which carry the charge. It's like what makes the lights dim when the washing machine starts, what makes batteries 'sag down under load'. In our case, the power associated with that sag (nearly half the total, BTW) ends up just were we don't want it, in the battery itself. Add to this loss, the losses in the contacts to the battery and two steel rails and you only have something like .75 Volts (electrical pressure to move electrons..) left of the initial 1.2. One third of the power where we don't want it, only 2/3 of what we paid for where we want it......and that's when conditions are optimum.

Good luck with your box and batteries. There are many that will work OK, few that work Well, and a bunch 'not so very well'. My advice is to go with the ones proven, as is almost always the case, the 'factory battery' is really a good choice (or they'd use the better one.....).

BTW, the caps from "Chapstick" and similar products work great as safety caps for your loose batteries.

OF

 

[Puffers]

Thanks for your help OF I appreciate the Chapstick tip too. The vaporpedia looks a bit more comprehesive then it was, lots of good info there.

Wow like 15amps to run this little thing huh I woulda never guessed it was that high

It's like what makes the lights dim when the washing machine starts, what makes batteries 'sag down under load'. In our case, the power associated with that sag (nearly half the total, BTW) ends up just were we don't want it, in the battery itself. Add to this loss, the losses in the contacts to the battery and two steel rails and you only have something like .75 Volts (electrical pressure to move electrons..) left of the initial 1.2. One third of the power where we don't want it, only 2/3 of what we paid for where we want it......and that's when conditions are optimum.


OF

So what your saying is my launch box needs a run capaciator, and maybe a start capaciator with a potential relay......I mean who wants to wait 5 seconds for vapor we want instant gratification here

 

[OF]

Thanks for your help OF I appreciate the Chapstick tip too. The vaporpedia looks a bit more comprehesive then it was, lots of good info there.

Wow like 15amps to run this little thing huh I woulda never guessed it was that high

You're welcome. Yeah, the current is a jaw dropper for sure. But it's really amazing when you start looking at the details. Great engineering. A lot is fixed by the .75 Volt part, it's the right drive for the strands of the mesh. Thicker or longer strands would have called for more voltage. Then you want a reasonable size bowl, that means extra current.

In the end it's like 12 Watts at the load. 150% of what a PD or similar 'stem vape' is 24 hours a day. Very efficient. Look at say the TV T1. 30 Watts building heat for maybe 20 seconds to get a hit. Yes, it's a 'bigger hit' (maybe), but it eats up the power for sure. The D9 Bender seems to be even worse in this respect.

OF

 

[JDR]

Yep, don't touch the glass with your lips. This allows the vapor to cool slightly in the space and is actually a method in itself for controlling the heat inside the box. It also ensures that you are creating a vacuum in front of the opening rather than directly pulling. You could do the same basic thing with your lips locked on the whip or the glass. But fish lips turns out to work best. I used to not believe it. But now I give the fish lips their due.

Also, there is a basic rule to all vaping that the MFLB turns out to be the perfect instructor for. It's super simple and obvious in any post around here. But it can't be overemphasized. Here is my (er the) method:

1. Heat it up.
2. Grab vapor.
3. Cool it off.

Crazy, no? Seriously, this is key esp. when you do fish lips, as it's going to heat up hotter and quicker. The MFLB also teaches the vape principle of getting more with less. More vapor comes from less action on your part but for a shorter time than you might expect. How zen, eh? So, on a fully charged battery with my coffee-grinder-ground herbs I might heat it up for 4-5, grab vapor for another 5-10, let go of the battery and keep grabbing vapor until nothing more comes. At this point feel free to abandon fish lips and pull as you wish...without sucking the particulate down the tube, of course. This squeezes more vapor from a range of temps, going up and down, as well as cooling off your herb that the MFLB will keep cooking once you set the box down.

As to the whip and glass, I know some folks don't like any kind of non-glass tubing. Understood. Probably good to be prudent. My take is, the connecting piece doesn't get hot and correct technique can pull vapor with minimal heat. Glass is groovy, no doubt. But the whip is very handy, almost required to really learn the thing. Pulling through a bubbler works great, the best even, but it takes all the subtlety and flexability out of the box.

Holy crap, I'm quite the MFLB expounder. Maybe, cuz I get no joy from the GF when I show her my magic gadgets.

-JDR

Thanks for the input! I too am shocked and awed at how some invisible hits can be more potent than cloudy hits (I can not verify that yet though).

I guess my thing is that I learned how to get a decently good amount of vapor cloud, but It must be the pulling technique that I use that makes it harsher than necessary... I'll try the "fishlips" technique; so just to make sure, youre saying to not even be touching the glass tube with my lips?


I might order a whip just for the sake of it. I kinda overlooked this aspect when ordering all the other stuff!

mod note: Back-to-back posts, merged. Please use the Edit feature, thanks.

 

[OF]

Also, there is a basic rule to all vaping that the MFLB turns out to be the perfect instructor for. It's super simple and obvious in any post around here. But it can't be overemphasized. Here is my (er the) method:

1. Heat it up.
2. Grab vapor.
3. Cool it off.

While useful here, and fairly often with other vapes, I'd be careful promoting it as the secret meaning to life. It is not "a basic rule to all vaping", in fact is sure to lead to problems with Omicron carts for instance. There the drill is pull before and after heating.

The key, if there is one, is to experiment I think. Follow the results. Often what works perfectly for one guy doesn't for whatever reason for the next.

Good luck, enjoy the process.

OF

 

[utekai]

Looking for ideas for glass that pairs well with the MFLB. Giving a gift of an MFLB and likely a nice glass piece (pipe, bong, bubbler, etc) and so trying to find a few pieces that work well with the box to be able to pick one that matches need. My budget is anywhere from $100 to $500.

Looking for glass that performs particularly well when matched up with a MFLB. Easy to use together, get consistently good draws and hits. Likely the glass piece will be frequently used and placed on a coffee table.

In addition to a recommendation for glass, if you'd also point out any accessories needed to pair it up to the glass that will also be much appreciated. MF offers a pipe adapter, but not sure if this is the right adapter for any particular piece of glass to get consistently good results.

 

[Quetzalcoatl]

Looking for ideas for glass that pairs well with the MFLB. Giving a gift of an MFLB and likely a nice glass piece and so trying to find a few pieces that work well with the box. My budget is anywhere from $100 to $500.

In addition to a recommendation for glass, if you'd also point out any accessories needed to pair it up to the glass that will also be much appreciated.

All you would need is the water pipe adapter (check their website). I recommend glass on the smaller side for milking. I like my pieces 1 foot or under.

 

[JDR]

While useful here, and fairly often with other vapes, I'd be careful promoting it as the secret meaning to life. It is not "a basic rule to all vaping", in fact is sure to lead to problems with Omicron carts for instance. There the drill is pull before and after heating.

The key, if there is one, is to experiment I think. Follow the results. Often what works perfectly for one guy doesn't for whatever reason for the next.

Good luck, enjoy the process.

OF

Far be it from me to claim to have the only true technique. Maybe, I should add to my sig: "Results may vary" or even "The above may be overstated. The author is using the product he is describing." I'm all over the map myself in how I do it. It has been nice for me to read/observe others who have their approach worked out so that I have a starting point.

My point was to emphasize the cooling step, which was not even on my radar when I went from smoking to vaping. With the MFLB, it is doubly critical due to the fact you pointed out way up there somewhere, that it runs at what.. 15V? ... and it gets there so quickly. I waste a lot of herb if I don't cool it down sufficiently. The fish lips approach I describe is tricky business, but reaps rewards and is instructive.

 

[OF]

My point was to emphasize the cooling step, which was not even on my radar when I went from smoking to vaping. With the MFLB, it is doubly critical due to the fact you pointed out way up there somewhere, that it runs at what.. 15V? ... and it gets there so quickly. I waste a lot of herb if I don't cool it down sufficiently.

Cool, if you think it's important then by all means say so, sharing ideas is the whole idea here. I'm just suggesting not using sweeping statements like "a basic rule to all vaping" unless it is indeed a rule for all vaping? In this case, I think it's not. I gave one example, the TV T1 and Evolution would be another where there are two distinct steps before 'grab a hit'.

As far as cooling down the box after a hit, I don't find that useful. The power usage is 'just barely there' for vaping (too much air or weak battery will prevent it all together), I think vaping stops the instant power drops but cool down can't hurt so go for it.

If the goal is conveying tips for MFLB use I think 'shake between hits' should be high on the list. Unless fresh material is moved into contact with the screen it's not happening. My list of tips would include grind fine, use dry herb, preheat until vapor is produced, draw slowly (sweep the vapor, don't draw excess cold air in), moderate the hit as works best for you and shake between hits. As always, trying what has worked well for others is probably a good way to go.

BTW, is's 15 Amps, not that it really matters. What does is the total power produced (about 12 Watts in this case), where and how. And how you use it, of course. In the end, results count more than how you got there perhaps?

Thanks.

OF

 

[JDR]

Cool, if you think it's important then by all means say so, sharing ideas is the whole idea here. I'm just suggesting not using sweeping statements like "a basic rule to all vaping" unless it is indeed a rule for all vaping? In this case, I think it's not. I gave one example, the TV T1 and Evolution would be another where there are two distinct steps before 'grab a hit'.

As far as cooling down the box after a hit, I don't find that useful. The power usage is 'just barely there' for vaping (too much air or weak battery will prevent it all together), I think vaping stops the instant power drops but cool down can't hurt so go for it.

If the goal is conveying tips for MFLB use I think 'shake between hits' should be high on the list. Unless fresh material is moved into contact with the screen it's not happening. My list of tips would include grind fine, use dry herb, preheat until vapor is produced, draw slowly (sweep the vapor, don't draw excess cold air in), moderate the hit as works best for you and shake between hits. As always, trying what has worked well for others is probably a good way to go.

BTW, is's 15 Amps, not that it really matters. What does is the total power produced (about 12 Watts in this case), where and how. And how you use it, of course. In the end, results count more than how you got there perhaps?

Thanks.

OF

Word. Fine grind. Dry herbs. The unconsious mflb auto-shake response. Slow draw (using the style of your choosing). The cool down comes into play when I want to mess with the quantity. I regularly commit the crime of filling right up to the clear cover. Sometimes I wait as long as possible before drawing and then draw even more gently than regular mflb gently, take a short hit, then release the battery and continue to draw slowly.

When someone says to me 15 amps, I want to see what kinds of guitars they have to go with them. Yo soy electrical dunce.

JD

 

[OF]

. The cool down comes into play when I want to mess with the quantity. I regularly commit the crime of filling right up to the clear cover. Sometimes I wait as long as possible before drawing and then draw even more gently than regular mflb gently, take a short hit, then release the battery and continue to draw slowly.

When someone says to me 15 amps, I want to see what kinds of guitars they have to go with them. Yo soy electrical dunce.

I think it's a huge mistake to overload the box, for a number of reasons. I load .125 grams at a time, never over the rails, to do so slows the action and invites fouling at the rods. Then again, it sounds like we manage heat differently. I run on the lean end of enough heat for the job, I don't let it build up in the box, if I want to collect it I do so in the WP, I try to run the box at a uniform rate once it's too temperature.

Others do slightly differently, of course, but I think I'm using a very common scheme.

Not to get too hung up on the numbers. Watts is what counts overall, and that's Volts times Amps. So 15 Amps is a scary number at 120 VAC in a bathroom heater, at .75 Volts it's more like a pair of nighlight bulbs, enough for our use, but not a huge amount. Nothing to waste for sure.

Fun stuff.

OF

 

[BigDaddyVapor]

Oh... don't get me started on overloads. You know damn well, I load high. Wait...

Never mind.