The Extreme-Q Vaporizer

Samsquanch

Vapor Astronaut
It comes down to there are two different types of people , just like people who buy cars . Some buy them and enjoy them just as they come from the factory , others , (like me) like to modify and improve performance any way they can . If your the type of guy that likes to tinker with performance , your gonna play with options , no matter what object we are talking about . I'm not about to declare who is right or wrong , but there is more efficiency to the electrician's method , if you consider efficiency as a more complete vaporization and NOT having to stir the bowl . It's not about the actual temperature , its about environmental heat distribution to air volume . The extreme Q is a very versatile vape , there is no need for another unit to get monster hits , with an 18mm male connector it's not that hard to find a compatible piece to make your own wand :2c: :peace:
 
Samsquanch,

DevoTheStrange

Ia! Ia! Vapor Fthagn!
that whip should fit over the heater in the Q... however unlike the electricians set up, the bowl area might be a bit bigger.
 
DevoTheStrange,

steven22

Well-Known Member
my bags are on their way out as in being smelly and golden brown

anyways, where is a good place to find bags of these size so I can remake new ones after I clean my glass mouth piece.

I know arizer sells them at 17$ for 2 bags.... but there has got to be a cheaper alternative right?.... i dont need the glass just the plastic.
 
steven22,

gim

Well-Known Member
steven22 said:
my bags are on their way out as in being smelly and golden brown

anyways, where is a good place to find bags of these size so I can remake new ones after I clean my glass mouth piece.

I know arizer sells them at 17$ for 2 bags.... but there has got to be a cheaper alternative right?.... i dont need the glass just the plastic.
Turkey basting bags.
 
gim,

Mr. Smoke No More

Can't stop the head rush!
This was a pretty neet experiment by the cats ovaer at magicflight, thought i would post it here, although i think he uses an older model, not sure.
magicflight said:
As a general note: for most, if not all digital vaporizers, the temperature listed on the display is very unlikely to be the actual temperature at, on, or within the loaded herbs. In regards to vaporization, the critical metric is the temperature at the surface of the herb. Since the specific heat of air is extremely low, measuring the temperature even a few cm away can easily result in differences as much as 50 deg C. To really know how hot the herb is getting in the microscopic spaces on and in between the ground particles generally requires either a very small thermocouple or infrared optical techniques and very careful procedure.

In regards to the Extreme, we actually purchased one of these units recently and explicitly tested to see how accurate the readout was in our Lab. The working parts of an Extreme consists of a heating unit base which has a ground glass coupling to a glass herb chamber. We know from physical inspection that whatever is used as a temperature measurement device *must* be in the base itself -- not in the herb chamber -- because there is no wire or optical path from the herb chamber back to the base. We therefore tested in two stages: 1) measuring the actual temperature immediately where the hot air stream exits the heating unit base and comparing that with value on the digital display, and 2) measuring the temperature immediately at the loaded herbs.

In regards to our methodology, we would assemble and place a K type thermocouples into the various measurement positions, turn the unit on, set it to the desired temperature and air flow rate, and then wait 15 minutes for the unit to fully and completely equalize thermally. Each time we experimented with a different temperature or fan setting, we would again wait an additional 15 minutes for equalization. It is therefore very certain that the results obtained are accurate and reflecting the real "best possible case" operating conditions in the Extreme system.

It is our observation, as a direct result of these experiments, that real temperature emitted by the Extreme heating unit is generally about 30 deg C cooler than the indicated Extreme readout, and that the temperature at the herb itself (another few cm farther away along the air path) is another 30 deg C or so cooler than that. Further, given that the ground glass parts have a relatively high thermal mass and that
most users are only likely to wait 2 to 5 minutes before using, the actual temperature at the loaded herbs is very likely to be even lower than would be expected from looking at the Extreme digital readout -- at least 50 deg C and likely as much as 100 deg C cooler. Furthermore, while the digital display and the internal heat within the unit itself are fairly responsive to requested changes in the temp setting, coming into stability within 15 or seconds, the actual rate of temperature change at the loaded herb takes MUCH longer -- at least 2 minutes later.

However, it is important to note that these systematic differences in temperature are not due to any particular failing of the Extreme system -- it is an inherently difficult problem, having to do with the bare physics of devices of this type. For example, even if the hot air path to the herb were completely insulated, the temperature loss would still be very significant -- at least 60 deg C. (We tried this also). Altering the system further so as to measure the real temperature at the herb definitely helps, yet even that is not a real solution since now the real thermal mass effects are fully evident and the overall system performance is glacially slow -- taking dozens of minutes to respond to adjustments. This pattern is evident, for example, with the Purple Days device where it is expected that it will take a *long* time for operating temperature to be reached, and once there, for the device to be left operating more or less indefinitely so as to be ready whenever it is needed.

As such, if you are expecting a realistic answer of how the operating temperature of LB compares to that of the Extreme, you need to be aware that the "indicated temp" display is of very little relevance in regards to the actual operating vaporization conditions of the device. In terms of real temperatures, the Extreme *does* implement real vaporization -- it just does so at a generally overall lower temperature than is indicated on the display -- usually at least 50 deg C cooler, and perhaps sometimes as much as 100 deg C cooler, depending on timing, ambient conditions and settings.

Really, the discriminating vaporizer purchaser needs to understand that the presence of a "digital display" is much more significant from a marketing and sales point of view than it is from a user/functional one. It is the connotation of "digital displays are more accurate/precise" that makes units sell, not the actual real functional performance or correctness -- something much harder to measure and understand. For vaporizers, as with most home appliances, "good enough" really is enough for most people -- everything else is a sales tactic.

-- Magic-Flight
 
Mr. Smoke No More,
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hereatlast

Well-Known Member
My bad I shouldn't have generalized, I know a lot of people are happy with the stock glass. Its nice to know at least that there are options.
 
hereatlast,

vape4life

Banned for life
+1

I wonder how much logic and reason there is in using .025g lol That's like what, one flake of herb?

I use the elbow pack or the "gargantuan bowl" and don't stir and don't believe all the crap about "efficiency".

Mr. Smoke No More said:
Electrician, u put the herbs in the "wand" then put that on the element? Dude, not to start an argument, but are u not doing this then to increase the temp? If u want near combustions temps, why dont u buy a SSV or something that can do that, bc arizer designed the E so that it wouldnt, which i agree with as i think it is completely unnecessary. If u really wanted to solve the "gargantuan bowl" problem, wouldnt it just be better to have a glass blower make u a thinner, longer bow as to concentrate the air path through the herb better?

To say others have no logic is pretty insulting as well. I understand what you do, and respect it, but its not for me as i could get huge clouds out of my E v3, and can still get clouds out of my Q without all these modifications. My only problem with what u post is that you make it seem like these mods are essential for the Q to work great. I vape at 190C on the Q (175 for E v3), and if i wanted thicker hits i could just turn it up, but i dont want to bc thats too hot, as would be putting the herb right on the element (aka male joint sticking out of the E).
 
vape4life,

hereatlast

Well-Known Member
Wow, thanks for the quote Mr. Smoke No More thats a great read on the Extreme. I wonder what version they were using?


I think one of the best things to pull out from this for practical use (other than the insightful temperature
differences) is that the temperature of the herb won't be stabilized for 2 minutes after your input.

Mr. Smoke No More said:
Furthermore, while the digital display and the internal heat within the unit itself are fairly responsive to requested changes in the temp setting, coming into stability within 15 or seconds, the actual rate of temperature change at the loaded herb takes MUCH longer -- at least 2 minutes later.

-- Magic-Flight
Again, a very cool read; nice to see this type of critical scientific approach.
 
hereatlast,

finchrock24

Proud MMJ Patient
Magic Flight did indeed to a nice write up...but...why?

I mean we all know that digital displays are not the temp of the herb or even the air around the herb...its the temp of the element. MF sounds like they are trying to convey the idea that the Extreme is doing people wrong by misleading them...but that isn't the case. The fix is simple...just pretend to not see the degree symbol on the screen. What I mean by that is think of the temps and just different power settings. 200 doesn't have to be 200 degrees (it would be nice) but I know that when the screen says 200, its ready for me to take my first set of hits. (After I let it warm up at 220 for about 5 minutes). Just think of the temps as different setting levels. Mine are 200 for first few hits then 220.
 
finchrock24,

vape4life

Banned for life
Forsure... I think Arizer would have been smarter to just subtract the 30-50 degrees C from the display, know what I mean? Then it would actually be more useful. But regardless, who cares.... you learn your range and good to go.

I think people are overthinking this a little too much. The Q kicks absolute ass just the way it was designed. Steve at Arizer KNOWS what he's doing...believe me, I know him personally.

finchrock24 said:
Magic Flight did indeed to a nice write up...but...why?

I mean we all know that digital displays are not the temp of the herb or even the air around the herb...its the temp of the element. MF sounds like they are trying to convey the idea that the Extreme is doing people wrong by misleading them...but that isn't the case. The fix is simple...just pretend to not see the degree symbol on the screen. What I mean by that is think of the temps and just different power settings. 200 doesn't have to be 200 degrees (it would be nice) but I know that when the screen says 200, its ready for me to take my first set of hits. (After I let it warm up at 220 for about 5 minutes). Just think of the temps as different setting levels. Mine are 200 for first few hits then 220.
 
vape4life,

Persona Non Grata

turn on, tune in, hulk out
Rockwise wrote:

Hello Everyone,

I noticed that there has been some discrepancies in the temperatures some forum members here are getting vapor from the Extreme. All new production runs of the Extreme are designed to acheive vapor at 190-200 degrees Celcius. At Arizer and Rockwise we were both bombarded with so many emails and phone calls regarding the "indisputibale fact that thc vaporizes at 200 c" that the executive decision was made to adjust the heat sensor so that users can actually acheive vapor at this temperature. FOR ANYONE WHO ORDERS A NEW EXTREME, please start with a temperature of approximately 190 - 200 degrees celcius, and go from there.
this applies to newer v3s I think, and obviously the Q.

I assume I have an older one, as mine works great around 165-175C. using a Q had to got to 190-195C for same hits.
 
Persona Non Grata,

the electrician

Well-Known Member
vape4life said:
I use the elbow pack or the "gargantuan bowl" and don't stir and don't believe all the crap about "efficiency".
exactly, youre not exactly worth listening to then are you


just because you know him doesnt mean you have to act all offended when someone suggests a way he could improve the device. honestly
 
the electrician,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
MF said:
... Really, the discriminating vaporizer purchaser needs to understand that the presence of a "digital display" is much more significant from a marketing and sales point of view than it is from a user/functional one. ...
i don't totally agree with this (only a little) ... i know in my case, the digital display tells me that the temperature is stable, and i really like knowing that (i.e. functional viewpoint). And when i up/down the temp, it lets me know the new temp is achieved. i'm measuring the coil temperature, which is two glass walls (1mm each) and 6 mm of air away from the center of the bud material. i generally assume that 2 minutes after start of session, the bud temperature is 40F lower than the coil temperature -- radiant temperature, i.e. before forcing the hot air through the bud, but after another several minutes it is only 20F lower - from measuring in the middle of the bud material with another digital thermometer. Even so, with a setting of 440F, the bud is never black, only a rich brown.

I think Arizer would have been smarter to just subtract the 30-50 degrees C from the display
i think it's better to know the real heater temperature and make the mental adjustment ... if my vape is going fuckhouse (temperature-wise) i want to know.
 
Hippie Dickie,

vape4life

Banned for life
Offended? lol Gimme a break... it's not like I get royalties or anything... in fact, i'm always looking for something better. Just don't think there is anything wrong with the way it is now (there isn't). And you need to back off and stop being such a prick to people who have opinions different than yours.

Perhaps you should lay off the crack in the bowl and stop having a hissy fit.

Please, don't even bother responding. Thanks, and have a nice day.

the electrician said:
vape4life said:
I use the elbow pack or the "gargantuan bowl" and don't stir and don't believe all the crap about "efficiency".
exactly, youre not exactly worth listening to then are you


just because you know him doesnt mean you have to act all offended when someone suggests a way he could improve the device. honestly
Mod note: We don't allow name calling. Have you read our rules? Every forum has rules and they should be read before posting. And ignorance of the rules is no excuse.
 
vape4life,

vape4life

Banned for life
Black? The Q can make your herbs dark brown at MAX temp, never BLACK though.

Hippie Dickie said:
MF said:
... Really, the discriminating vaporizer purchaser needs to understand that the presence of a "digital display" is much more significant from a marketing and sales point of view than it is from a user/functional one. ...
i don't totally agree with this (only a little) ... i know in my case, the digital display tells me that the temperature is stable, and i really like knowing that (i.e. functional viewpoint). And when i up/down the temp, it lets me know the new temp is achieved. i'm measuring the coil temperature, which is two glass walls (1mm each) and 6 mm of air away from the center of the bud material. i generally assume that 2 minutes after start of session, the bud temperature is 40F lower than the coil temperature -- radiant temperature, i.e. before forcing the hot air through the bud, but after another several minutes it is only 20F lower - from measuring in the middle of the bud material with another digital thermometer. Even so, with a setting of 440F, the bud is never black, only a rich brown.

I think Arizer would have been smarter to just subtract the 30-50 degrees C from the display
i think it's better to know the real heater temperature and make the mental adjustment ... if my vape is going fuckhouse (temperature-wise) i want to know.
 
vape4life,

the electrician

Well-Known Member
vape4life said:
Offended? lol Gimme a break... it's not like I get royalties or anything... in fact, i'm always looking for something better. Just don't think there is anything wrong with the way it is now (there isn't). And you need to back off and stop being such a prick to people who have opinions different than yours.

Perhaps you should lay off the crack in the bowl and stop having a hissy fit.

Please, don't even bother responding. Thanks, and have a nice day.
ill be a prick to whoever i feel deserves it. i came in here posting an idea ive sunk plenty of time and effort into in hopes that it would solve some problems that people have raised with the unit. then you appeared and decided to act the fool for some reason, didnt contribute a fucking thing and generally went out of your way to make a bunch of no content bullshit posts. it seems to me like youve put no thought into this at all, and if anyones thrown a fit and shat their pants its you little man

Mod note: The rules apply to everyone and retaliation in kind will get you the same infraction as the person who started it.
 
the electrician,

Hippie Dickie

The Herbal Cube
Manufacturer
just to be clear(er): i was referring to my Bud Toaster's digital display, not the Q, since the MF statement was kind of generic ...
 
Hippie Dickie,

vape4life

Banned for life
Now that hurts lol You really are a POS... give it a rest mr. know it all. You know FUCK ALL.

Too many electroshocks to the head? Or is your head so fucking fried from your "EFFICIENT" herbs? hahaha

the electrician said:
vape4life said:
Offended? lol Gimme a break... it's not like I get royalties or anything... in fact, i'm always looking for something better. Just don't think there is anything wrong with the way it is now (there isn't). And you need to back off and stop being such a prick to people who have opinions different than yours.

Perhaps you should lay off the crack in the bowl and stop having a hissy fit.

Please, don't even bother responding. Thanks, and have a nice day.
ill be a prick to whoever i feel deserves it. i came in here posting an idea ive sunk plenty of time and effort into in hopes that it would solve some problems that people have raised with the unit. then you appeared and decided to act the fool for some reason, didnt contribute a fucking thing and generally went out of your way to make a bunch of no content bullshit posts. it seems to me like youve put no thought into this at all, and if anyones thrown a fit and shat their pants its you little man
 
vape4life,

the electrician

Well-Known Member
vape4life said:
Now that hurts lol You really are a POS... give it a rest mr. know it all. You know FUCK ALL.

Too many electroshocks to the head? Or is your head so fucking fried from your "EFFICIENT" herbs? hahaha
you being ignorant doesnt imply i know everything

if youve got a problem with my use of the word efficient youve got a problem with pretty much the entire forums use of it too. when i refer to a method (not the weed you idiot) being more efficient, i mean less weed is producing equal or greater results
 
the electrician,

vape4life

Banned for life
Yeah that's my problem with you...you're full of shit. Less weed my ass. But if your delusional state of mind believes that, then hey have a field day!

And if you think the bowl is huge, have you ever seen the herborizer's? lol It's at least twice the size! But yet still an awesome vape.

the electrician said:
vape4life said:
Now that hurts lol You really are a POS... give it a rest mr. know it all. You know FUCK ALL.

Too many electroshocks to the head? Or is your head so fucking fried from your "EFFICIENT" herbs? hahaha
you being ignorant doesnt imply i know everything

if youve got a problem with my use of the word efficient youve got a problem with pretty much the entire forums use of it too. when i refer to a method (not the weed you idiot) being more efficient, i mean less weed is producing equal or greater results
 
vape4life,

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
I believe the electrician's method does conserve herb. But I say "to each his own" and if you are not concerned with efficiency, then don't worry about it and vape happy!!

Peace out, you guys... go vape a little and then we can all have a group hug... what do you say??

Cheers!
 
Stu,

ForbesDotCom

Well-Known Member
Gettin kinda rowdy for stoners, lol... i think some people need to stop fighting about the Q and start USING it. haha just a joke
 
ForbesDotCom,

vape4life

Banned for life
Agreed, but Mr. Smoke No More said it well, and I just couldn't take this dolt's "holier than thou" attitude anymore that the stock Q isn't as good as his mods. Maybe he should market them to Arizer, but i'm pretty sure they would just laugh at him.

For those looking to buy a Q, please don't worry about all this efficiency hype. Anyone who tells you they are vaping .025g is a fool. Unless that was ofcourse a typo.

Vape on...elbow or bowl.
 
vape4life,

Stu

Maconheiro
Staff member
I'm gonna load an elbow AND a bowl right now to celebrate this detante!
 
Stu,
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