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Magic Flight Launch Tube

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by magicflight, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. max

    max This space available Staff Member

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    Clears the meaning up there. Thanks for the correction.


    As a former Vapolution user, I (and many others) can identify with that issue.
  2. Hennessy1414

    Hennessy1414 Terrorist

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    so CD...are you saying you put a mini layer of un-ground nuggets on the screen..then sprinkled a very finely ground layer of nugget on the top?

    hmmm seems like you are working with different techniques. :tup:

    :peace:
  3. Purple-Days

    Purple-Days Tom Manufacturer

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    2,722
    Hi Magic Flight,

    Thanks for the response. The old spell checker problem in a high tech discussion...

    As to the second point, your use of the word natural, I knew you could qualify it somehow.

    Excluding portions of your device to make claims of natural? Is the Magic Flight operable without the PMMA 'draw tube' or NiMH batteries? And if not, is it fair to call your 'device' natural? As in your first post? You say,"Our device is compact, robust, reliable, and natural." With no qualifiers, you state the 'device' is natural.

    Talking about less attractive battery alternatives doesn't make your NiMH any more natural. Choosing PMMA over glass for the tubing, for whatever reasons, doesn't make it any more natural.

    Refering to Butane (CH3CH2CH2CH3) as a synthetic?

    LPG comes from two sources. It can be obtained from the refining of crude oil. When produced this way it is generally in pressurized form. LPG is also extracted from natural gas ... coming from underground.

    Refining and extraction from a natural substance (produced from long ago decayed organic materials) is not synthesis.

    Again your use of the language seems geared to promote rather than inform. :2c:

    Tom
  4. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    Hi Purple Days,

    As the maker of a "competing" vaporizer, I can well understand what seems to be your 'picking of nits'. However, since your basic point seems to be that we should fully and completely qualify any and all claims made in the interest of being informative, I will for the record explicitly declare the following:

    1) As a matter of the existing record, when previously asked about what was shipped with the Launch Tube, Acrylic did get listed as the material used for the draw tube (i.e., demonstrates our intent to be informative).

    2) It is acknowledged that the draw tube, nor the batteries, nor the provided charger, are "natural" materials in the strict sense of the term. Magic-Flight does not make the batteries or the chargers, nor do we "actually make" ANY of the other raw materials used in the manufacture (we merely "shape" them). As such, we can make no specific claims in regard to the provided batteries and chargers.

    Without wishing to sound even more like "Data" in the Star Trek series (as you would seem to want me to do -- a very unnatural way to communicate), I could also point out that the unqualified use of the term "natural" is also connotative of "a natural choice". Naturally (pun), this could be seen as indicative of our general enthusiasm for our product and of our desire to promote and publicize our features: 1) the use of renewable materials wherever possible and 2) our philosophical emphasis on sustainable systems.

    I apologize in advance if my efforts to answer general questions posted in this forum seem to our apparent competitors to be biased in favor of our own product -- they are, mostly because we happen to really like our product! In our defense, I could point out that over 95% of the Magic-Flight posts here have been exactly that -- responses to questions with intent to inform -- hardly an "all out effort" to publicize our product with a glitzy advertisements. Personally, I see no basis for your implications that we have been anything less than completely informative.

    Also, for the record, we did make and do have ready to ship units (in stock now!) that do not require a draw tube at all, and we can even, per explicit customer request, send them without the bundled batteries and charger (cost to the user is even less!). The launch tube can be operated without the draw tube (although it is not as much fun). Further, a car is still a car, even if it is "shipped" empty (no gas). As such, we have and do make the Launch Tube itself in a manner that is composed of 100% natural materials -- no qualifiers because none are needed. If that is what people want, that is what we will ship. We think that it is better for the customer to decide what is important to them, rather than to be arguing about the finer points of communication here.

    -- Magic-Flight
  5. stickstones

    stickstones Wasted Staff Member

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  6. djelimon

    djelimon Well-Known Member

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    Sounded interesting, especially the speed and the laser, but I'm leery of charring from conduction (used to have a BC vape, it's prejudiced me).

    Needs a usage vid and from the sounds of it, more support for herb insertion even at home.

    The lack of :ninja: factor kills it as a portable for me, but I'm in the market for a home vape replacement. No rush, so I'll keep an eye on you guys.

    Use a mini Oxygen at the moment, no charring, lots of stealth, but slow as fuck.

    How does the unit hold up to harsh Canadian winters I wonder?
  7. mrshock486

    mrshock486 Well-Known Member

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    ha you read my mind!


    How hot is it to inhale from the version without the draw tube?
    Is there anything different about this version? any pictures?
    Also, how much is it without charger, battery, tube? just the bare essentials
  8. Purple-Days

    Purple-Days Tom Manufacturer

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    Hi Magic Flight,

    I do not consider your product, a competing vaporizer, as you put it. And my vaporizer is no more natural than yours. ;) I would never make such a claim. :cool:

    However another of my products, which you may not know of, Buzz-Butter :buzz: , is "All Natural" and "100% Non-Toxic". Neither of those statements/claims requires any qualification.

    You may note that I don't hide my identity and under normal circumstances would not even think of posting in another vaporizer's thread. But again your use of language seems odd to me, and inappropriate in regards to your 'device'.

    I only asked about your use of two words. I accept the spell checker explanation for the first word.

    I am not picking at nits.

    You used four words to describe your 'device' in your opening statement. I only have a problem with the last one. Natural. I have no problem whatsoever with your device, just your words, or in this case the one word, natural.

    It is as a maker of an all-natural product (not a vaporizer), that I take offense at your use of natural to describe your 'device' composed of some natural substances plus synthetics and inorganics etc.

    I don't blame you for being enthusiastic about your product. And you should be proud of your accomplishments thus far.

    You have made a lot of claims, and I will not challenge the others. No need, others will judge those claims for themselves. I only asked that you elaborate on your use of the word natural, as used in your opening statement.

    Good luck,
    Tom
    Inventor and maker of the Purple-Days Diffuser and Buzz-Butter (our All-Natural and 100% Non-Toxic wood finish)
  9. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    Hi,

    In regards to the question about Canadian winter, the Launch Tube will work with a moderately cold environment, but is not expected to perform as well in a very cold environment. Anything below 50 degrees Fahrenheit ambient temperature is probably iffy. Also, the unit does not handle water/wet very well -- it tends to cause the wood to swell and make the glass hard to fit. Long exposure (days) to high humidity can cause fitting problems too.

    -- Magic-Flight

  10. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    Re hot: Not very -- at least, I have not heard any complaints/comments about it, and we do ask our testers about such things.

    The difference is that there is a 1/4 hole in the center of the side of the larger glass chamber (the hole is through the glass and there no hole in the wood base). Lips are placed directly on the glass on either side of the hole to draw. This design has the advantage of a very low degree of possible condensation, (more efficient), a little more stealthy, and fewer parts. However, it also has the disadvantages of 1) user cannot see anything, and 2) a user drawing too fast can pull material off of the tray and into the mouth. More than 80% of our testers reported that they wanted to see what was going on and preferred the draw tube. Previously to my joining FC, we had stopped advertising that version as a result.

    If you order a bare essentials device from the Blissville distributor, the cost would be $60 (link accessible from the main page of our web site). You would need to provide your own rechargeable batteries and charger (for technical reasons, the one-use disposable batteries do not work). We recommend that you get one of those 15-minute battery chargers from a hardware store -- the "Energizer" one works well for this, although it typically costs around $30. We also recommend that the batteries have their label peeled off (improves performance and fit). NiMh batteries of at least 2000 mAh capacity are best.

    If people do order one of these units, please be sure to indicate in the comments section that you are explicitly requesting a side hole unit without batteries and charger.

    -- Magic-Flight.
  11. mrshock486

    mrshock486 Well-Known Member

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    47
    Location:
    vancouver
    Any chance we can get a picture?
  12. Clear_Dome

    Clear_Dome Vaporhead Glass Blower

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    Quebec
    I agree , seeing what happen during the vaporization is defently cool LOL you can see the magic happen !
  13. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    Hi Purple Days,

    Understood -- Accepted.

    I agree that without commentary and user feedback, it would be hard for us as developers to know what sort of improvements would be helpful. No offense intended or taken.

    Best,
    -- Magic-Flight
  14. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    10,491
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Ya know, I used to write ad copy for a living, but this particular marketing effort (and that is what it really is), is a bit over the top.

    The unit looks like a high-school science project made in some one's garage, and yet with all of the verbiage regarding the manufacturing of this unit, it not only sounds like a part that was designed for the space shuttle, but also has the backing of a large manufacturing facility with it's own R&D department and a clean room.

    It's really amazing how one can make something so simple sound so complicated.

    To steal a term from Randy Jackson, "I'm just keepin' it real here, dawg. Just keepin' it real".
  15. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    USA
  16. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    Hi,

    You are welcome to your opinion. In fact, it is to gather opinions and provide information that I even joined the FC forum.

    I can accept that not everyone likes the look of the device -- that was expected. We have other units with other "looks" that are in development, so we tend to view this as not a problem for now.

    In regards to manufacturing, we do have the backing we need. Furthermore, we actually have designed and prototyped over 50 different "models" -- using real science -- with markedly different designs, experimenting with all sorts of different parameters. This has occurred over multiple years and, yes, it has been expensive. The apparent simplicity of our current offering was arrived at as a reasonable compromise after having tried many much more complex ideas. If you have ever actually tried to build/engineer something, particularly something "simple", I am sure that you also know that there is very often a lot more involved than appearance alone would indicate.

    I apologize if things do not seem "real" enough for you.

    -- Magic-Flight

  17. Hennessy1414

    Hennessy1414 Terrorist

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    1,352
    Location:
    Real life, Tulsa
    If I may add my :2c:...

    this thing looks official like a referee with a whistle...I love how the wood is beautifully crafted. In that last pic MF showed us it looks like he drilled a small card/loading hole right above the screen. almost like it would limit how much you put in there creating the perfect vapor..but who knows I am still yet to get one :uhoh:

    this thing is by no means cheap or bullshit. It really seems like a well crafted vaporizer that took thought and effort to make. I remember reading posts in the beginning of the PD thread...I read a lot of, now PD owners and even myself, semi-bashing the unit saying it wouldn't fit into their vapor lifestyle...guess what, some of us were wrong(minus spyder :lol:) so I think we all need to give this vape time to see what it can really do...or buy one yourself :p

    :peace:

    edit/// http://magic-flight.com/launch_tube_side_hole.jpg the screen chamber on that bad-boy is HUGE possibly a defect MF? so whats the deal do all the MF units shipped out have varying screen sizes? that would be kinda funky :/
  18. max

    max This space available Staff Member

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    lwien, this is the only forum (for mj anyway) that allows manufacturers to post info about their products. We feel that it's a plus for members and the manufacturers as well (as long as they have a good product ;) ). Obviously, you can't separate information from marketing to the extent that it will satisfy everyone. But so far, the manufacturers have provided the info we're looking for without the sales hype. magicflight knew the rules, and the pluses and minuses involved in starting his own thread, and has towed the line to our satisfaction. Believe me, any vape maker that comes here and doesn't follow the 'builder posting rules', which are simple and easy to understand, will be promptly banned and the thread/posts deleted.

    As magicflight said, you're welcome to your opinion. But I don't think many members will agree that the thread is just a "marketing effort". FC is now the best place to go to get info on this vape. The same goes for the PD and I-inhale/iolite. We're not going to pick apart the way someone chooses to present/portray their company. We're more interested in the product.
  19. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

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    667
    Location:
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    Hi,

    In regards to the picture, I should have put a coin or something in to indicate scale. The screen is actually about the same size, although it is somewhat flatter in shape and is bonded differently. I should have mentioned that in the caption (sorry).

    In the previous side-hole build, we had tried a flatter shape to make more room for a finger (so that a tool was not needed) and to optimize the convective aspects. However, testers reported that the unit dumped its load a little too easily while handling and they wanted a deeper tray. Also, filling the tray more than with a thin layer of ground material tended not to work as well (uneven heating when people tended to over-fill them). Finally, there is an infrared "gathering" effect that occurs when the tray is deeper and narrower, that tends to contribute to more even heating, despite some loss of the convective aspect. For units that we ship from that series, we will be removing the screen shown and replacing it with a standard one. They should all be the same at this point -- if not, it needs to get fixed -- and I will make sure that it happens.

    The hole is too small to load into -- the cover still needs to be slid off.

    Also -- thanks for your support. After reading that more than one FC member had disapproved of my communication style, I had been feeling a little low.

    -- Magic-Flight

  20. NoSmoke

    NoSmoke Well-Known Member

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    403
    After reading everything on this thread I think I will be purchasing one after vacation, very interesting vape.
  21. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    Location:
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    Aw, man, I didn't mean to do that. It's just how your description of your product and it's manufacturing just seemed a bit grandiose and overly complicated, that's all.

    The LAST thing that I would want to do is to dissuade any mfg from introducing and promoting his/her product here, because I truly believe that this is the best vapor site on the net.

    I do agree with Max. It really is all about the product and I guess we'll see how it goes here the more they get into peoples hands.

    I really do wish you the best of luck with your vape and apologize for any hurt feelings. It was just the old ad man in me comin' out.
  22. Progress

    Progress 'Socratic Existentialist, MD'

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    Location:
    Fuck Combustion
    Hello Magic Flight,

    Could you please tell us a little about what may have happened to CD when he first used his MF (http://www.fuckcombustion.com/viewtopic.php?pid=20122#p20122). I know that he said he tried it with less/more-finely-ground herb (and it worked better), but any insight you could provide to ensure that others have a positive first experience would be greatly appreciated.

    I think that the current running directly through the herbs makes your design very unique. At this time, I can not think of a particular purpose it would serve for myself, but am still excited about the novel design of the MF.

    In closing, I'd like to welcome you to FC (this is my first post in the Magic Flight Thread). I, too, appreciate your willingness to answer questions here at FC (despite my awareness of the often-reciprocal nature of such relationships).

    Best luck with your current and future ventures! ;)
  23. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    Thanks for the clarification. For whatever its worth, it is not my intent to make our company seem grandiose.

    For my own part, my viewpoint (as you can probably tell) is closer to engineering and product development than to marketing (hence my awareness of the complexities involved). It is true that we are a smallish startup with fewer than 15 people involved in design/development (excluding testers, of which there are many more), which just happens to have excellent lab support. We consider ourselves very fortunate to have the right sort of equipment, know-how, and people -- that in itself is a rare and significant blessing in any business, particularly in a venture as marginal as this one!

    At the moment, we have only one product offering. Our company is at least as interested as any possible "buyers" in the sort of FC reviews the Launch Tube gets, particularly since it could potentially have a direct effect on 1) how our product is eventually marketed (when we do begin that effort), and 2) what sort of things we should be optimizing for in any future products we may be able to offer.

    In any event, thanks for the apology and the good wishes -- all gladly accepted.

    -- Magic-Flight

    PS: If you have any suggestions as to how I might improve our communications/marketing, I would be interested to know them.

  24. lwien

    lwien Well-Known Member

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    10,491
    Location:
    Arcadia, California
    Ok. Suggestion. Don't have any engineers or product development guys write your ad copy. They should provide input, but not be intimately involved in marketing communications.

    Communicating here is a mixed bag. On one hand, you are desiring input into product development, but on the other, the site offers you a free marketing vehicle.

    Engineers and product development people can't market a product worth a damn, and marketing guys typically can't screw in a light bulb without instructions.

    I guess the problem here is that, as you've said, you are more geared into engineering and development and your are communicating on that level, but you are also, in a very real sense, marketing your product, and in most cases, the two don't mix.

    When I look at your product, and then read things like, "....both the resistivity and infrared emissivity change -- both of which result in non-linear changes of energy flow. The mathematical/physical curve describing these changes (a 4th power equation) have a natural inflection point that limits the max temperature attained.", my eyes just do one of these >>>>>>>> :rolleyes:, and for me, the product then loses some credibility because it seems like it's being over-sold, if that makes any sense.

    I also question when you say, "It is true that we are a smallish startup with fewer than 15 people involved in design/development (excluding testers, of which there are many more), which just happens to have excellent lab support.", for that implies that you have 15 engineer/design/developement people plus a whole bunch of testers AND excellent lab support. I just don't see how a start up venture like this could have these kinds of resources, especially for a product, that by it's very nature, would have relatively low volume sales. To me, a small start up company is what Purple Days is all about. Two people banging out product on their dining room table.

    Having lab support and 15 people involved in design and development on a product such as this is just a bit tough to comprehend and to me, it sounds like an over-the-top sales pitch designed to lend credibility.

    Anyway, you asked for some input, and I provided some. I'm just sensitive to stuff like this because of my marketing/advertising/sales background. I promise that you will get no more input from me on this, 'cause I think I've said all that there is to say.
  25. Clear_Dome

    Clear_Dome Vaporhead Glass Blower

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    1,727
    Location:
    Quebec
    I'm still testing it ... to be fully honest , I still feel like this vaporizer over cook . let me explain the way i think , when I put a thin layer of finely ground herb over the screen , the vapor taste like vapor during about 2-3 second and right after it taste the baked popcorn but the top of the herb is still green with visible pollen on it, after 2-3 hits the herb is fully brown but the herb that touch the is always darker .... I have question for you Magic flight , what is the maximum temp that the screen will reach with fully loaded batteries ? I'm someone who like the taste of fresh low temp vapor cause this way I'm sure it is healtier than smoking

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