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Magic Flight Launch Tube

Discussion in 'Portable Vaporizers' started by magicflight, Mar 11, 2009.

  1. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hello Everyone,

    Please allow me to introduce the Magic-Flight company. We create a simple, easy to use, portable vaporizer. Our only product -- the "Launch Tube" -- is a small, fast, portable vaporizer that can be used by anyone, anywhere, anytime. Our device is compact, robust, reliable, and natural.

    The primary advantages of our vaporizer is that
    1) it can be used nearly anywhere and work instantly
    (no warm up time, no plug in required), and
    2) it is small enough to fit in a pocket (easily accessible)
    and yet have enough on-board power to last a long time.

    This thread is intended to provide a forum for discussion about this device and its usage
    and to provide a place to get questions asked and answered. Thanks for your time and
    please be sure to visit magic-flight.com!
  2. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    This is in reply to an earlier comment by "stickstones" in another thread...

    On that note, I checked out your site and have a suggestion. You refer to using your device as both vaporizing and smoking. I suggest you lose the smoking description, as it leads me to believe the maker of this product is not well versed in the differences.

    Thanks for that feedback -- I will see that our web person makes an update for it.

    Question -- I do also want to be sure to be able to appeal to people who wish to vape tobacco. Any recommendations as to how to best do this?

    Best,
    Magicflight
  3. Phaang

    Phaang Fog Huffer

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Pacific NW, USA
    OK, some questions:

    It looks like this is more a conduction rather than convection heat. Yes, the video shows the bifurcating swirl of the vapor rising from the screen, but the convection looks more like a by-product of the conduction. Is this a conduction process?

    What temperature does the unit heat the herb at? Can it burn?

    How much material can be loaded on the screen? Will it need to be stirred to get the best efficiency?


    The unit looks a little crude, but I am very intrigued by the stealth and quickness of the unit. This looks like something that could be used right in the seat at a movie theater, no getting up in the middle of a film to go to the bathroom! :p
  4. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    This is in reply to questions asked by "Jacopone" in the resellers thread...

    Can you please explain what your vaporization process is?

    Its fairly simple really -- the screen/tray in which the material sits is an enclosure shaped heating element as well as a place to load the material. The load screen is specifically designed to adhere to very specific electrical as well as mechanical tolerances -- accounting for things like infrared permeation, rate of thermal conduction and gas flow, current prorogation, etc.

    The screen and the chamber in which it sits is designed to allow for a natural convection cycle to form,
    which passes through the material allowing the vapor to be carried out of the pack. (Note: the instructions include a directive to not form a dense packing) The draw hole and the size of the chamber is setup in such a way as to balance with the natural rate of vapor convection due to the thermal difference between the inner heating element and the outer Pyrex chamber -- in effect capturing the vapor for the user before it has a chance to condense on the sidewalls.

    How do you control temperature?

    The temperature balance is maintained in the inherent physics of the device. In effect, there is a current balance with the internal impedance with the battery, which is itself a function of the battery chemistry. As the heating element/chamber warms, both the resistivity and infrared emissivity change -- both of which result in non-linear changes of energy flow. The mathematical/physical curve describing these changes (a 4th power equation) have a natural inflection point that limits the max temperature attained. Again, the specifics of the material and its shape are calibrated so as to place the typical operating temperature in the useful range -- about 380 degrees Fahrenheit for most of the pack at a delta T of 4 seconds or so from startup.

    "Look Ma -- no electronics!". The absence of digital control circuitry is intentional -- most silicon based components are fragile, degrade with time, and involve many toxic pollutants during their manufacture. Where it is possible to get the necessary temperature and energy regulation using pure physical analog techniques, the result is both more reliable, more robust, and more natural. The team at Magic-Flight especially likes the fact that we are among the most environmentally friendly companies around.

    What makes your vaporizer more efficient?

    The two factors that are important are 1) the efficiency and completeness of vapor extraction, and 2) the efficiency of the vapor delivery. Most vaporizers are fair at at attaining the first part, but many simply do not think about the second. The crucial issues are ensuring that everything that touches the load is evenly and correctly hot and preventing any possible vapor condensation during delivery. These two aspects will be considered separately below.

    Many systems are not very good at ensuring thermal equilibrium along the surface of the load volume, and those that do pay specific attention to this aspect, usually do so by adding a lot of thermal mass. For example, the butane based portable unit that people are talking about takes a full 5 minutes to heat to optimal working temperature. High thermal mass means lots and lots of heat energy wasted.
    Our design has very *very* low thermal mass, allowing for complete thermal cycling in tens of seconds rather than in dozens of minutes. Furthermore, due to the folding design of the heating chamber, there is an effective immediate physical guarantee of heat energy to only and exactly those places where it is needed. Thus, our design is not only reasonably efficient at extraction (since heating is fairly even) but it is also very energy efficient too (typically only 5 watts). This makes our unit much smaller, lighter, and longer lasting than other portable systems. For example, our competitors will either need a lot of battery power or will need to use butane in order to get to the energy levels needed to work.

    In regards to the vapor delivery, this is a whole other series of calculations. Here, the aim is to ensure that there is very little chance for the vapor to condense anywhere. Condensed vapor is lost vapor, and any device that does not account for this will be less efficient overall, even if their extraction does not suffer from the issues above. Therefore, the Magic-Flight designs ensure that gas and vapor flow are also optimal for actual delivery -- they have very little chance to condense. How this is done is a little more complex, but basically involves airflow thermal modeling and various construction techniques.

    I hope that this post has been helpful.
    -- The Magic Flight team.
  5. Hennessy1414

    Hennessy1414 Terrorist

    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Real life, Tulsa
    could i easily get shocked? and how the heck does it heat the herb...im really lost here
  6. Frickr

    Frickr Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    618
    Location:
    South Dakota
    Me too, so the bowl is also the heating element? wouldnt that be a conduction vape instead of a convection vape?

    maybe a close up picture of the bowl/heating element would help us to understand.
  7. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi Phaang,

    It is genuinely a convection system, although both conduction and radiation play significant parts also. Obviously, if the user hard packs the device, the convection (and radiation) aspects will be lost and conduction aspects will predominate. Naturally, we recommend that people pack the device loosely with ground materials so as to optimize the convection.

    One rather important aspect about the 'convection vs conduction' discussion that is often overlooked is that the phase transition of vaporized components from solid and liquid phases to the gas phase involves a significant increase in volume. This volumetric increase is important, and under some circumstances, makes the difference between conduction and convection much less significant. The Launch Tube device has its parts arranged in such a manner as to permit vapor emission from the herbal mass in ALL directions. This is important as it allows the infrared aspect have maximum impact -- the solid and liquid phases tend to adsorb infrared whereas the gas phase tends to pass it. In the Launch Tube design, the equations describing the infrared behavior are at least as important as those describing convective gas flow aspects.

    In regards to your question about temperature, the average temperature through the load volume tends to be between 380 and 400 Fahrenheit under most conditions. No part of the pack gets hot enough to burn.

    In regards to the load volume, the optimal load for the Launch Tube tends to be about 35 to 40 cubic centimeters.

    In regards to stealth, you have hit on the main benefit of this design. It might not be the most efficient device in the world (although it is probably close), but it is definitely one of the fastest. It can absolutely be used immediately, going from loading to toking in seconds. Furthermore, after you have toked it out, you can also empty and reload immediately -- no waiting minutes for it to cool off. If you are reasonably discrete, your immediate neighbors are unlikely to even notice anything (very little odor).

    Thanks again for your questions,
    Magic-Flight


  8. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    In regards to the question about "will I get shocked", the answer is definitely not! The maximum operating voltage is 1.2 volts, and that is about 50 volts too low to even be a question, so no worries there. :peace:

    -- MagicFlight
  9. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    The bowl is a heating element and it is also a screen. As the screen/bowl heats, a convection cycle is setup, and since the air passes through the screen, this convection current carries both heat and vape through the load. In the Launch Tube design, conduction, convection, and infrared heating are to occur together. Although conduction heating happens, it is not the most important aspect of what makes this vape work.

    I will see if I can get a closeup picture (may take awhile).

    -- MagicFlight

    Me too, so the bowl is also the heating element? wouldnt that be a conduction vape instead of a convection vape?

    maybe a close up picture of the bowl/heating element would help us to understand.
  10. Skunkypete

    Skunkypete Escape Artist

    Messages:
    241
    Location:
    Over the rainbow
    Hi Magicflight ,

    I'm wondering if you could tell me what materials the "prongs" and bowl are made out of. Looks like copper to me but i guess I could be wrong? I guess my question is: can you elaborate on the types of material used to build the magicflight?
  11. Phaang

    Phaang Fog Huffer

    Messages:
    75
    Location:
    Pacific NW, USA
    Hen-

    Mfr answered you in a very esoteric complicated fashion, but essentially it looks like it is a resistive wire approach (like the filament in a lightbulb).

    I must say, this looks very intriguing...
  12. biopharmacopeia

    biopharmacopeia Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    20
    Hi Magicflight:

    I think it's great that your firm is taking such an empirical, hard-core science and engineering-based approach to vaporizer design. We need more of that. Can you post or refer us to any relevant papers, presentations or patents regarding your unique approach to vaporization?

    Can you estimate the load amount (in grams; presuming high grade cannabis is used, not tobacco)? How many hits might this typically provide?

    Can the device do single potent hits, or just multiple draws?

    What is the function of the protruding rods or tubes?

    It looks as though use requires two hands. Is that correct?

    Any plans to bring out further models, perhaps adapt your heater design to rugged single hand-held or desktop units?
  13. vtac

    vtac vapor junkie Staff Member

    Messages:
    4,962
    Location:
    FC R&D
    Hey there magicflight, thanks for stopping by to answer the deluge of questions. I hope we don't overwhelm you. :D This is certainly one of the more intriguing designs I've seen, I look forward to learning more about how it works.

    Re-posting this from the other (now closed) thread:

  14. SpiralArchitect

    SpiralArchitect ? & beyond

    Messages:
    1,528
    This is all very interesting.....

    could you explain the difference between the battery units and the USB units? Is the AA recharger simply via USB instead of a wall wart?


    Hi-res pic I found;

    [​IMG]

    Any pictures of spent material?
  15. eLiguL

    eLiguL Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    316
    Perhaps a tutorial video on a streaming site would quell a lot of very basic questions. :2c:
  16. Hennessy1414

    Hennessy1414 Terrorist

    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Real life, Tulsa
    Defiantly^

    Just a simple video like the Extreme Vape review would be key for this new portable vaporizer.

    At least a pic of it all hooked up and ready for action :brow:

    SOMETHING! if you do FC will give you a cookie :D

    :peace:
  17. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    The prongs are copper clad steel (need both
    strength and good electrical conduction).

    The screen is 304 stainless.

    The main glass is Pyrex. The two end parts are hardwood (Birch).
    The draw-stem is Acrylic. The battery holder is copper.

    -- Magicflight

  18. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    In regards to papers, things do collect over the years. I will see if I can find something to have posted on the website that is not owned by someone else (possible copyright issues). Of our own research specifics, patents, trademarks, etc, it is unlikely that we will be able to publish details until the lawyers are done (could be a longish while). Partly, this may be due to concerns about telling too much about what makes this device work so well. We do have to keep some secrets, after all :)
    All that I can say is that this has been a pending effort of several years.

    In regards to the weight question, my guess would be about 40 to 90 milligrams. Considering that various samples will have different water content, density, etc, we tend to design in terms of volume.
    From each filling, you can usually expect at least three full hits, each about 10 to 15 seconds long -- ie, whatever your lungs can hold when drawing naturally, slowly, and evenly. After that point, without several more fresh test subjects on hand, it gets a little hard to tell what is going on... (although we are working on it!).

    Of course, if you have enough lung space to draw all of this in one long continuous pass, then all the better!

    The protruding rods provide electrical/mechanical connectivity.

    Its easier with two hands, but not strictly necessary. Gravity tends to hold the swing connection together well enough for operation. If the user wants more specific control of the heat/taste, then two hands are needed, and then it becomes a question of skill. For most people, this sort of thing is of no interest or need.

    We do have a number of other prototypes in the lab. At least two of them are very likely to become full products, to be released in the next year or two, (depending on market conditions, placement research results, etc). Both of them are portables -- we do not do desktop units. We regard desktop work
    as redundant, since this is a fairly well "solved" problem by other companies.

    Magic-Flight.com

  19. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    All shipped units use the same batteries -- the difference is in the battery charger. The "regular" battery charger simply plugs into a wall socket. The "USB option" is a battery charger that plugs into the USB port of a computer. The "USB option" also includes a USB power unit that plugs into the wall if you need to charge the batteries and you do not happen to have a computer handy.

    When going portable, the only gear that you need to take with you for vape action is the basic unit, one battery (even though two are available), and the battery holder. Everything else can stay at home for when you need it later.

    Also, be aware that there is limited stock for the USB option -- the 'bean counters' have apprised us that the USB components are likely to be discontinued.

    RE: pictures of spent material -- I will ask the webmaster about that. Thanks for the suggestion!

    -- Magic-Flight.com

  20. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    I agree that a vid of a typical user setting up and using it would be helpful -- it is in process. There is a technical vid of the device in action at http://magic-flight.com/mfvp/vid_test_5.htm

    On the main page of the magic-flight.com website, the second to last picture shows it 'ready for action' and the last picture shows it 'in action'. The planned vid would mostly contain this same sequence.

    Magic-Flight.com

  21. Hennessy1414

    Hennessy1414 Terrorist

    Messages:
    1,352
    Location:
    Real life, Tulsa
    is it possible to view those in high-res? they are pretty small to see whats going on in there :hmm:

    :peace:
  22. illadelph

    illadelph vaked fresh daily

    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    home of the illadelph
    so, in order to keep this unit going, you have to hold the battery to the top of the unit the whole time its operating? that might be hard to do whilst i desire to vape and drive. :/ im really interested in this unit though since i have been looking into a portable.
  23. magicflight

    magicflight Manufacturer Manufacturer

    Messages:
    667
    Location:
    USA
    Hi,

    In regards to the question about hands free, usually, the battery holder is attached to the pin nearest you, with the point of the battery facing away from you and below the pin (makes more sense when you have one in hand). In this configuration (see below), the weight of the battery itself makes the connection -- it pivots down when you pick it up -- only one hand needed. In the vid, we attached the battery overhand so as to ensure that the unit remained in the same position on the bench (where the laser was configured to hit it).

    For those asking for a more detailed picture, our webmaster put up the following
    [​IMG]
    Note: the device is loaded with wood chips -- something easily at hand when in a shop!

    Magic-flight.com
  24. illadelph

    illadelph vaked fresh daily

    Messages:
    425
    Location:
    home of the illadelph
    so in this picture above, the battery pack is attatched to the unit? im also trying to understand how you get more precise temp using two hands with the unit.
  25. Clear_Dome

    Clear_Dome Vaporhead Glass Blower

    Messages:
    1,727
    Location:
    Quebec
    I know that some of you seem suspicious about this vap but in my head it make a lot of sence how this vap work LOL I cant wait to try it :brow:

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