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herbalAire

Discussion in 'Plug-in Vaporizers' started by Hudsonrulez, Nov 9, 2008.

  1. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Ictus,

    As if this can comfort you at all, i recall my 1st test with no load in the crucible, trying to get an idea how neutral the air/cannabic paths would be. The brand-new PVC tubing tasted so bad for a moment i saw myself stuck with some useless piece of junk but i gave it more thoughts and all is good now. In fact i'd argue the HerbalAire performs like a locomotive engine (long story!), euh...

    ;)

    Anyway, please give it some more faith! I'm confident this issue you're talking can be dealt with to your satisfaction (if expectations remain reasonable i guess). Perhaps a curved glass stem will do fine as i found there's vegetal matter glued within the first inch or so, before the bending. Imagine a looped glass whip, etc. I dunno but you didn't pick the cheapest offer, at least no herb falls on a red-hot heater element, etc. I'd be surprized if you won't be able to manage ultimately.

    Good luck in any case and don't despair just yet!!

    :peace:
  2. roodvuur

    roodvuur New Member

    Messages:
    1
    Hi there everyone,

    I've received my HerbalAire (H2.2) in the mail yesterday. Obviously, I tried it out aswell. And I love it, much bigger hits than the portable vape's I've used before. There's one thing I'm not sure about yet though. I've used the unit with the whip, as I think that's the most relaxed way of using it. Now, when the unit is on and heated up, but I'm not using it (vaping half a gram of herb takes a couple of minutes..), I can clearly see vapor leaving the whip (on the mouthside).

    Now I assume this is normal behaviour since the vapor has to go somewhere. I'm curious about how you guys fix this though. Do you take a couple of hits, then switch the HA off to turn it back on again when you're feeling for some more hits? Or do you just let the vapor 'leak' out of the whip, assume it's not a whole lot of herb being wasted and live with it? Or have you found another solution?

    A lot of thanks in advance.
  3. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Roodvuur,

    If you're holding the HA in one hand while performing a direct inhalation using its main white teflon mouthpiece then it would be easy enough to block the white inlet teflon opening located behind to interrupt free flowing of your cannabic vapor between each toke (i never got a finger burned doing this). Yet, if your tought process works like mine, while holding a load in your lungs there's the idea of baked goods which makes you want to hurry up but then it keeps comming and you start feeling a bit overwhelmed, as if on a train which once set in motion won't be stopped easily... Locomotive syndrome i call it!

    Good day, have fun!

    :peace:
  4. ictus

    ictus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Thanks Egzoset,

    I tried a few hand-broken nugs (just broken enough to fit) and was pretty surprised with the results and how much smoke I could pull from a half full capsule (or chamber or whatever its called heh)

    I still seem to get more particulate coming through though even using unground material based on what I see in my bubbler water. You are right I'm sure the issue can be dealt with using some tweaks. I didn't mean to sound do down on the product when I had only test driven it using one possible configuration...

    I think the main reason so much particulate comes through is the simple orientation of the screen being before the airflow, and the relatively narrow air path means high enough velocity to "lift" the material exposing all the finer particles to the high velocity air streams... if its really "Pulsing" then this would exacerbate the issue by creating localized areas of temporary higher velocity.

    On one of my portable vapes (INH004), the chamber is even more narrow, but almost no fine particulate gets through, even pulling at high speed. The only difference is that the screen is placed opposite the air flow, thus the back pressure packs the material harder together against the screen, which means it's self-filtering to an extent.

    Putting a screen laying on top of the material in the HA chamber might help a little bit, but unless the screen was a snug enough fit to stay in place against whatever back-pressure develops during a pull, it would move and the material wouldn't "self filter" as much.

    Has anybody tried operating one of these units entirely upside down? Then you could actually have the capsule in upside down held in place only by the teflon mouthpiece. That I think would solve alot of problems. I might throw together a wooden base to do this, it would also help stabilize the thing.

    Trust me I'm not just somebody who shows up to bitch and trash a product.... I may however be somebody who posts frankenstein like creations of mods :)
    Egzoset likes this.
  5. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Ictus,

    Great, even better if this implies glassware! Mine have been made of unpopular PVC tubing from the very begining so i guess there won't be much competition coming from me, especially if you've got something really nice to show up...

    ;)

    The "No-Grind" claim has solid basis but there are instances when i prefer to grind anyway. In fact a moment ago i've just pack-filled my crucible with compact-hard material which got grinded 1st as i believe this happens to promote a more even thermalization process in these cases. That's definitely not what the manual instructs me to do but i figure a faster release may be obtained, which should suggest that less air is required, hence improving my vapor/air ratio as a result IMO (because it's denser when it's finally set in motion - but i'm a bag user mostly and i find these peppered enough as it is)! Of course doing so makes the particulates problem potentially worst, but i wouldn't know because direct inhalation using the main white teflon mouthpiece isn't my favourite route of action (typically i'll filter/condition if i do use it)...

    :shrug:

    I won't dispute that and i also understand the shock when something is expected while the actual experience differs significantly. Whip mode users will be able to comment better on this than i can myself since i much prefer to "condition" my cannabic vapor one way or another, because of a somewhat sensible throat...

    To me the HerbalAire appears to be LEGO land for table vaporizer enthousiasts. Its pair of connectors (1 behind, 1 on top) allows some weird experiments often innaccessible to users with a different brand/model. Give it a few weeks if not months, i'll bet it's going to come handy as a feature.

    Especially if you can appreciate monster "mods"! :science:

    I'm under the impression that it is, at least when using its pump, obviously... My perception in this matter would be that the noble molecules must diffuse through our material until they can be carried away for consumption. It seems like a synergy between convection and conduction allows my sticky content to become mobile 1st and then i hypothesize that nuggets and/or grinded material is dried starting from the bottom up. Perhaps it's all wrong but i'm sure those turbulences are what makes my HerbalAire feel like a locomotive...

    Though, there again i'm confident you can get much better advise from less tainted HA owners who get the luxury to acquire some wider expertise! ;)

    Playing LEGO style is fine but sometimes it's a good thing to have a diversity of opinions available, coming from all horizons. Have you been to the IRC channel where there used to be a few HA whip guys, as i recall?

    I was never able to acquire a good understanding of the Inhalater's air/vapor paths but that's good to know and they're Canadian too on top of that - which for a citizen of this country should mean the product doesn't have to cross the US borders, euh...

    Anyway, it looks like the INH has some convoluted paths inside, whatever. The large particles are probably projected against the sides because of inertia, in a similar way to what i've observed with a Solo glass stem from Arizer (easier maintenance/reclaiming is a bonus).

    :D

    Don't we get an equivalent function via the crucible? To me that's what it means to "diffuse": the crubible would get lighter at its base as the psycho-active content migrates toward the denser area on top (well, until it gets depleted that is).

    Oh, but wait! Do you plug your crucible's top with a grid filter??? I always do sice it prevents accidental spills, etc.

    My main white teflon mouthpiece isn't been used much these days as i prefer a glass accessory for the convenient view if offers... If i want to pack then it's going to require white teflon with a filter screen inside while my crucible has its top opening slightly obstructed by a 2nd screen. In fact i may be able to make a relevant testimony here: try 2 grids to close your crucible and you'll most likely find an accumulation of fine dust in between once your session is over. Yet, that's not what i choose for my regular vaping where a smaller load is prefered in order to help a bit with usage rationalization!... It's no exageration when the manual says "pea" size sample is recommended for initial evaluation, actually.

    :brow:

    Now that i mentioned this i recall there's also a 2nd screen inside my crucible at the bottom, to keep everything within my crucible and out of the oven during gooey tests (better safe than sorry)...

    Very creative thinking here! :cool:

    It's not something i ever felt necessary but you certainly got my attention. I'll be looking forward for more insight on that proposal. It's not clear to me how that would affect vaporization but you're demonstrating a will to verify that statement instead of just relying on an assumption and that's some kind of behaviour i feel comfortable with.

    This wasn't my impression as i also happened to be relatively worried during my discovery period, prior to real initiation.

    So, go for it!! Good day, have fun!...

    :peace:
  6. ictus

    ictus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Well some pages back (I think?) somebody mentioned taking a Bud larger than the crucible and cramming it in... well I tried that a few times last night and I was really pleasantly surprised by the results with this style of use. For one, with a single nug jammed in, there really wasnt any noticeable particulate getting through (even hand broken had a bit I noticed). So this makes sense because the single bud was a self-filter. Not sure why I was so skeptical about being able to roast a whole bud like this, but I have to admit that there are huge advantages doing it that way with this device. For the first draw there was some resistance but then it was a very nice medium draw with more consistent vapor then using grinded herb.

    So now if I have some shake, I will try to "cork" it under an solid nug big enough to have to be squeezed in place....

    Still going to try experimenting but I always seem to have things come up around the house when I get free time...
  7. OO

    OO Technical Skeptical

    Messages:
    1,167
    Location:
    Paraphernalia Museum
    I would like to clarify on "pulsing".
    The pulse is through all the holes at once, and comes from the aquarium pump. It is therefore not present during direct draw.

    Also, the crucible is supposed to go on in an orientation with the screen on the end opposite of the air entry. This way the device can be emptied easily by inverting over a glass tray, which will catch the crucible, and hold it safely until it can be held by the hands (30-60 seconds).
  8. ictus

    ictus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Thanks 00.

    If the pulsing is just from the pump impeller, then I suppose you could say anytime you draw through a bubbler type device the same pulsing principal applies.

    Can somebody link me to a place where you can replace the teflon mouthpiece with a glass one?

    What about the high temp 1/4" silicon tubing? I am definitely noticing a bad taste from the included tubing. There's less taste without but then the air is pretty hot. Also I swear the teflon itself is giving off a taste that I only get close to 400F. I find that I get most vapor out of the 1'oclock range (and I find this vape fairly clean at that range), but to get the most complete exhaustion I like to slowly creep to max. When I get up to max I'm tasting something not quite right.
  9. GratefulVapor

    GratefulVapor Phish Head

    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    The Dirty South
    I consider the pulsing that's previously mentioned to be referring to how the Air Pump works, when ON. It is my understanding that the stock one(maybe others?) 'pulse' when pumping the air; which I interpret as the air being pumped in bursts of High Flow>Low Flow>High Flow>etc. I could be COMPLETELY wrong, for I have never used the pump personally:nope:. I do not believe that when drawing through a bubbler, a similar 'pulse' would exist. If one is constantly drawing on the water-pipe, it shouldn't be 'pulsing' air through the unit. Maybe it does? It isn't noticeable if it is happening.:suspicious:

    To replace the teflon mouthpiece with a glass one; check back a page or so. There have been MANY posts about this. There are a few different mods you can perform if you desire. This reminds me of some awesome news about a Glass mouthpiece replacement that's made custom for the HA.
    PLANETVAPE has the new HA GonG Adapter up on their website. They are still revising the design, so there is a delay(unfortunately the fritted screen isn't going to work). Once it comes out, officially, it is going to be awesome(IMO)! I have heard that it performs great, & I personally can't wait to see a video. :science: :tup::spidey:
    http://www.planetvape.ca/vaporizer-accessories/glass/adapters.html
  10. ictus

    ictus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    There is pulsing action any time you use a bong. Just think about the physics. You pull a tiny tiny bit and nothing happens, until you pull hard enough to overcome the water pressure. At that point a burst of air bubbles get through but the water channel will close back up and you have to overcome the same pressure again. Thus on the intake side, air would enter as a series of burps. That's why bongs made that stereotypical burping noise.
  11. GratefulVapor

    GratefulVapor Phish Head

    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    The Dirty South
    I understand your point, for sure. I guess I am just thinking of more modern bongs/bubbs, where there is very low drag & no 'chug'(same thing as what you are calling 'burps'); & also no 'stereotypical noise'. I still don't consider running through water 'pulsing', either way. Yes, one does have to over-come the initial pressure for the air to start flowing in a water-piece. Unless someone intentionally pulses their inhale, it shouldn't be a noticeable pulse of action (IMO). This is off-topic; *The End* :horse:
  12. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations GratefulVapor,

    Why not post an image for that link? Such an event is certainly worth it!

    [​IMG]

    Too bad i won't have one in time for Chistmass! Thanks anyway...

    Oh my! I think that's a sintered glass filter i see right there!! :mmmm:

    I'll most definitely need a clarification on the "carbed" vs "non-carbed" versions!...

    :peace:
    GratefulVapor likes this.
  13. ictus

    ictus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Very interesting. From reading the page, that adapter there actually replaces the stock metal crucible, and is meant for the HA to be used inverted on top of a glass peice, kind of like I was envisioning trying with a wooden jig. That actually inverts the filter to be against the airflow meaning you get less particulate coming through.

    So most of the glass end on the right must dissapear up into the HA. I like the idea a lot.

    And GV I see what you mean: especially with complex bubblers all the multiple air paths would offset the little burps which would average the noise into more of a constant flow... my bubbler is dead simple oldschool single tube style so was all I was imagining when I wrote what I did.
  14. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations Ictus,

    Unfortunately i didn't catch that part and that's a big one for me because i was hoping the crucible would slip on it just like the Arizer Solo glass tube does, actually keeping my herb inside...

    [​IMG]

    :peace:
  15. GratefulVapor

    GratefulVapor Phish Head

    Messages:
    155
    Location:
    The Dirty South
    I knew you wouldn't like that aspect of the design Egzo ;). I talked to a CS rep. at PV about the adapter, & from what I can gather it is designed to be used in an inverted position(I haven't seen it in use yet, time will tell); which should also allow for easy removal of the HA from the 'stem/adapter'. The lack of an 'attached crucible' will make it easier to dump out ABV & re-load(IMO). Also, I'm looking forward to being able to easily remove my HA from the adapter between hits while leaving the adapter itself in the GonG joint of 'X Water-Pipe'. This will eliminate(..lessen?) any vapor from escaping, in the time between hits. The potentially 'saved' vapor may be minimal or not notifiable, but either way I think it is going to function very well for DIRECT Vape-Bonging (HA --> Glass Water-Pipe; no tubing). They are still tweaking the design I believe, so it's possible the crucible could fit the adapter like Solo stems...:shrug: I don't see that being useful though, for most will be using it inverted. You know far more about these types of things than myself, so feel free to put me in my place. :rolleyes:

    No matter the final design, I am happy to see some love being given to the HA. It is long over-due! :luv:
    Egzoset likes this.
  16. ictus

    ictus Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    154
    Normally isn't there around 1/8 to 1/4" of an inch of space left above the crucible? I wonder if that would be enough room to just use the glass adapter in the normal upright position, so that its merely sitting on top of the crucible, like the teflon mouthpiece?

    Maybe it won't be as stable as possible, but it seems like it should work.

    Wonder when they will be available. Shame about the fritted screen not going to work, but now I'm even more curious what they come up with to keep the design. Would be funny if they decided to toss the whole upside-down design because of that.
  17. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations GratefulVapor,

    Oh well, then lets consider i'm not representative of the manufacturer's target niche. :|

    Nah! You should know me better than this, i value my serenity and hence i'd never ever want to fill my hobby time with such futilities. Vape barons may feel entitiled to such behaviour but i certainly don't share the same taste for this form of vertical "socialisation"... Personnally i can think of a few other motivations.

    My opinion as well, sometimes this thread feels like an orphaned place... I can testify about what i like but i gather from your explanations i just can't comment about the product as described here now.

    Maybe in a year or 2, etc., we'll see... :popcorn:

    Never mind. Thanks for the clarification, good day sir!

    :peace:
    GratefulVapor likes this.
  18. itriplots

    itriplots Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    61
    Damnit, i just bought a LSV over thanksgiving for the ease of water pipe use. Its ridiculously crude compared to the HA, and 7th floor has been ignoring my emails for weeks about the build quality issues ive had since the get go with it.

    Im very excited for this adapter to come out! I will certainly be selling the LSV soon after I get one, my 5 year old HA still works so much better.

    This is great news to me! Im a chemistry grad student and I hate cleaning fritted funnels out. The HA will never have an all glass air path, so I hope they just throw a screen in there so its easy to clean and replace.
    MG23 likes this.
  19. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Salutations ITripLots,

    [​IMG]

    Now that sure seems like a reasonable assumption to make at the moment!! ;)

    :peace:
  20. itriplots

    itriplots Well-Known Member

    Messages:
    61
    Also, I missed the PTFE discussion a few pages back but I have some indirect experience with testing for PTFE traces at high temperatures. GC-MS is an analytical method for determining trace presence of organic compounds. Some common valves on the GC ovens are made of PTFE and they are directly in the heated air path (up to ~300 C). GC-MS is basically heating up compounds, pushing them through a long skinny tube with a coating on it which separates out the molecules and then they are pushed into a detector of some sort (the MS in this case). The gas used to push the molecules through the oven is usually ultra pure He. Im not an analytical chemist, but Ive spent a couple months using a GC with a PTFE valve and I never found trace amounts of PTFE. While this was at higher pressures than our lungs can produce, its still PTFE being heated for long periods of time and then the vapors (if any were produced) are blown into a detector.
    McNerdius, hanfhead and Hippie Dickie like this.
  21. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Hi again,

    Do the rationalisation over teflon/PTFE include long term heat stress scenarios?...

    Perhaps it should raise some concern to see teflon parts changing colour after a while. Is that an indication to the effect that this material absorbs contaminants or does it mean it's the teflon that slowly turns into some potential contaminant itself???

    :hmm:

    Considering how smelly my old "tokeu" used to be when i was a student that's no bid deal but i still prefer alternatives meant to limit exposure, just because it's me.

    Anyway, has anyone ever published a measurement of the assembly's temperature at full power?

    :peace:
  22. Live-N-Learn

    Live-N-Learn Higher, Higher, Baby...

    I have been reading this thread and I have a few questions before my bday hits and I pull the trigger on the Herbalaire 2.2. I hope you guys can help me out.

    1. With the updated pump they provide, is there any problems with the bag mode?

    2. Can someone post a link of an adapter to a bubbler/bong since I read the direct MP gets real hot and I want the home unit to have a cooler vapor compared to my PAX.(I seen a glass piece but didnt know for sure what it is)

    3. Is the whip mode any good? Ive seen mix reviews, I dont only want to use bags for this device.

    4. Is there anything I should know from an experienced owner before buying the HA 2.2?

    5. Is there anything I need to buy that is vital to make the HA2.2 more enjoyable/efficient?
  23. Egzoset

    Egzoset Vaporist v2.0

    Messages:
    2,270
    Location:
    Shawinigan/Qc, Canada
    Did it depend on anything similar to what's shown below for a tight seal?

    [​IMG]

    :peace:
    GratefulVapor likes this.
  24. t-dub

    t-dub Vapor Sloth

    Messages:
    4,013
    Location:
    Oregon
    I would get some 5/8th screens for packing your crucible :)
    GratefulVapor likes this.
  25. Live-N-Learn

    Live-N-Learn Higher, Higher, Baby...

    I dont know what your picture is of exactly. LOL

    I was looking at this piece yesterday, I seen in the thread conversation about 18mm and 14mm adapter pieces, do I need those to hook it up to the bubbler?(Also have a Pax)

    http://www.pipesdaddy.com/ProductDetails.asp?ProductCode=VP-0022&CartID=1

    Thank you. I just dont wanna make the purchase and have to buy additional things later :)

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