CCA Liger banger V3.0

[gunmetalshark]

You should check this thread
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/nautilus-glass-sapphire-and-ruby-inserts-for-bangers.26817/page-3

..much info and more over there

 

[JigMelon]

You should check this thread
http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/nautilus-glass-sapphire-and-ruby-inserts-for-bangers.26817/page-3

..much info and more over there

Perfect, thank you!

 

[Hogni]

Why not asking a well known Chinese vendor/producer for a customized quartz banger to your specifications? I'm sure there would be at least 10 in a collective purchase order.

 

[JigMelon]

Why not asking a well known Chinese vendor/producer for a customized quartz banger to your specifications? I'm sure there would be at least 10 in a collective purchase order.

Not a bad idea... I'll make a thread when I do more research.

 

[sarkunit]

Since the 20mm insert itself is just abotu 17mm it will fit inside the AH 26mm Banger no problem but i think there is even a tad too much room, the 30mm AH Banger is too small for the 30mm insert...i THINK the best fit would be the galaxy 35mm Banger but noone did try out yet

We need to find out the wall thickness on the Galaxy 35mm. If it is 2 mm and the liger is actually 29, we have a fit. It looks exciting, and the price is very good on the galaxy 35mm. I am impressed if the function is as good as High 5 at least. Maybe I will pull the trigger, because a clear liger 30 with a matched bubble that works would be next level.

 

[gunmetalshark]

Yeah, i shot them an email and did also ask if EU Shipping is possible but they did not reply
and i also need to cool down my buying habit a bit

 

[Shooby]

So i heard from someone that they are about a week or two away from shipping the Liger Airs. Early June. And they should be serial numbered like the Obsidian inserts.

I havent touched my flat liger in about two weeks. I think i will pull it out tonight and use it with the Augusthaus coil and shroud.

 

[Anon3200]

I have both to 20 and 30 mm ligers with sapphire, sic, and obsidian.

The 20mm is great for small or tiny dabs however the insert will not hold enough heat to fully vaporize a larger one without increasing the temperature or waiting for the heater to catch up.

The 30mm inserts are a lot heavier so they hold more heat while providing more surface area. This size is far superior for medium-large- to gianormous dab. The only downside is that you have to suck a little harder before carb capping to keep the vapors in. Adding the August Haus coil provides more even heating and allows for even lower operating temperatures. Early reviews of the 30mm Liger were skewed as the first design did not always make tight contact between coil and vapor bucket however the designs was subsequently changed.

Quartz bangers are better than titanium alone as quartz holds a ton more energy per degree/gram as titanium which has a very low specific heat (but ok heat transfer rates). Quartz holds a lot more heat than titanium due to having a higher specific heat, however, it has the lowest heat transfer rates of all the inserts.

Sapphire has a higher heat transfer rate than titanium and holds twice as much heat per gram/degree as quartz due to having the industry's highest specific heat. Sapphire is also denser and has like 20x+ the heat transfer rate of quartz. This makes Sapphire an ideal concentrated thermal mass for rapid low-temperature static vaporization.

I see no reason why quartz would be better than titanium for housing the sapphire insert. The titanium wall that separates the CCA insert from the coil has a much greater heat transfer rate than a quartz banger. It is stronger, much thinner, and takes much less energy to heat up. This allows for quicker, more even, and more accurate coil heating and temperature readings. Furthermore, the coil heat shield on the CCA liger improves thermal efficiency while reducing infrared exposure.

If you are having issues with the 20mm liger than you are probably a heavy user who should step up to the 30mm rig. IMHO The 20mm liger is the ideal size for the lightweight/microdoser only.

I use the 20mm at around 660-670 on my China vapcode coil. I was running the 30mm a slightly cooler with my old flat coil. Now that I have upgraded to the 30mm August Haus coil and I am finding that I can use temperatures as low as 500-580. I'm not sure how accurate these numbers are.

 

[invertedisdead]

I see no reason why quartz would be better than titanium for housing the sapphire insert.

A sizable group of people in the Flowerpot thread note increased smoothness in the vapor and flavor simply by switching the bowl from grade 2 titanium to boro glass.

 

[Anon3200]

The issue with the flowerpot is the way the screen is held. The bottom has a more narrow diameter than the top and the screen sits on the bottom so there is an area around the sides that does not receive the hot air (thermal dry spot). Furthermore, the titanium bowl on the flowerpot remains cold so resin collects on the sides. The shape of the glass flowerpot appears better and cold glass will have less condensation then cold titanium. My titanium flowerpot tasted amazing before the vapor resin started to collect.

The titanium on the Liger remains hot so there are fewer condensation issues. Resin from vaporized flower tastes freaking horrible (worse than pipe resin), while "reclaim" from a good dab rig is just "not that great".

A sizable group of people in the Flowerpot thread note increased smoothness in the vapor and flavor simply by switching the bowl from grade 2 titanium to boro glass.

 

[invertedisdead]

The issue with the flowerpot is the way the screen is held. The bottom has a more narrow diameter than the top and the screen sits on the bottom so there is an area around the sides that does not receive the hot air (thermal dry spot). Furthermore, the titanium bowl on the flowerpot remains cold so resin collects on the sides. The shape of the glass flowerpot appears better and cold glass will have less condensation then cold titanium.

I don't find the way the screen is held to be an issue. Can't say I agree the bowl remains cold either, as I've burnt my elbow on it lol.

 

[Anon3200]

It certainly is part of the issue. Put a domed titanium screen on top of the hole and then a flat screen on top of that then lower the temp a little and you will get better results. You will still have condensation issues though. Stuff collects on the screens. If you try to pull a dry hit from an empty flowerpot you still probably get a big hit of vaporized resin from the screen and sides. Condensation doesn't start to appear in the liger until the downstem because it is consistently heated.

I suppose the flowerpot will get hot but it's not consistently hot. So you get both condensation and vaporization of nasty resin. With the liger the heating is consistent, and there is no convection heating so the areas that do have condensation do not vaporize. Convection vs conduction... Apples and oranges.

 

[Anon3200]

Please forgive me for I am new but have you tried the 30mm liger with the sapphire insert? The flavor is freaking amazing it is nothing like the flowerpot, which let's be real tastes good for the first hit only and does start to develop a bad taste. The only way you are going to get a bad taste from the liger is by running something nasty though it like resin or flower vaporizer reclaim ("the worse").

I'm not trying to knock on the flowerpot. It's my favorite dry herb vaporizer since then Vaportech that I purchased in 2003. But dry herb vaporizers all have issues with nasty residue and are nowhere as awesome as a good dab rig.

I don't find the way the screen is held to be an issue. Can't say I agree the bowl remains cold either, as I've burnt my elbow on it lol.

 

[mixchu69]

The issue with the flowerpot is the way the screen is held. The bottom has a more narrow diameter than the top and the screen sits on the bottom so there is an area around the sides that does not receive the hot air (thermal dry spot). Furthermore, the titanium bowl on the flowerpot remains cold so resin collects on the sides. The shape of the glass flowerpot appears better and cold glass will have less condensation then cold titanium. My titanium flowerpot tasted amazing before the vapor resin started to collect.

The titanium on the Liger remains hot so there are fewer condensation issues. Resin from vaporized flower tastes freaking horrible (worse than pipe resin), while "reclaim" from a good dab rig is just "not that great".

i think u should try @lazylathe mod....put an eq screen on a stubby bowl, and the flower will all rest at the bottom (near the narrow bottlneck), so all the heat will penetrate the entire load.....vapor production can start off a lil slower since the load is farther away from the heat source

 

[invertedisdead]

It certainly is part of the issue. Put a domed titanium screen on top of the hole and then a flat screen on top of that lower the temp a little and you will get better results. You will still have condensation issues though. Stuff collects on the screens. If you try to pull a dry hit from an empty flowerpot you still probably get a hit of vaporized resin from the screen and sides. Condensation doesn't start to appear in the liger until the downstem because it is consistently heated.

I suppose the flowerpot will get hot but it's not consistently hot. So you get both condensation and vaporization of nasty resin. With the liger, there is no convection heating so the areas that do have condensation do not vaporize. Convection vs conduction... Apples and oranges.

I'm actually not having any issues with my setup, did I say something that would suggest so?
As I said I much prefer to use a glass bowl for flavor and smoothness, as do many others @Shooby @gunmetalshark @just_the_flu

Please forgive me for I am new but have you tried the 30mm liger with the sapphire insert? The flavor is freaking amazing it is nothing like the flowerpot, which let's be real tastes good for the first hit only and does start to develop a bad taste.

You don't have to use the same bowl for flower and extract my friend. Many run sapphire on their flowerpots. I don't personally have a sapphire halo.

 

[Anon3200]

Exactly. I believe you about the properties of boro, and the shape of the bowl/ screen being more ideal for the flowerpot. I want to get one of them glass flower pots myself. I definitely notice uneven vaporization near the edges and bad flavors from the vapor resin in the screen and neck.

However I dont feel that moving from the CCA liger to a quartz Enail would be an upgrade for me and my 30mm Sapphire inserts. It takes long enough to heat up that sapphire without using a material that is going to suck up a huge amount of heat itself and has very low heat transfer rates. Having a shielded coil is the biggest advantage the liger has over my Dnail, the second would be the lower splatter loses. The thermal mass of the 30mm insert is high enough that I would not see a benefit from the added thermal mass of a quartz wall. The temperature drops slowly on the 30mm sapphire and the August Haus can compensate quickly and deliver more heat to the sapphire with a better thermal interface material.

You don't have to use the same bowl for flower and extract my friend.

 

[Hogni]

I believe here is a little misunderstanding.

Anon's position regards to the thermal properties of titanium as heat source for the inserts and he believes therefore that titanium is the best material for that and he don't believe in different flavour properies bc the material doesn't come in contact with the ti when using an insert.

The other guys are referring to flavour properties and mean that titanium as dish surface and used in the air path are not the best material solutions flavourwise.

Maybe you all are right?

1) Titanium as best dish material cause of it's thermal properties
2) SiC, Obsidian, Sapphire inserts for best flavour
3) Quartz airpath for flavour

 

[Shooby]

I

Exactly. I believe you about the properties of boro, and the shape of the bowl/ screen being more ideal for the flowerpot. I want to get one of them glassflower pots myself.

However I dont feel that moving from the CCA liger to a quartz Enail would be an upgrade for me and my 30mm Sapphire inserts. It takes long enough to heat up that sapphire without using a material that is going to suck up a huge amount of heat itself and has very low heat transfer rates. Having a shielded coil is the biggest advantage the liger has over my Dnail, the second would be the lower splatter loses.

Your absolutely right. And you have every right to feel that way. I nor anyone on here have not pushed quartz bangers on anyone in this forum but rather note or state my goals and progress. I do not own or work for any quartz company.

I wanted to resolve two issues. First, to have options to the shittiest company in the vape business and to reduce my coughing. Having an all quartz banger and sapphire inserts for 25mm 30mm and 35mm bangers gives me options to see what i like the best for myself without having to wait for CCA to make something or ship somthing that will be scratched or nippled. Since switching to quartz, i cough less and not as hard. Oh wait, sorry, there is a third issue, taste. I want pure taste as i have been getting more expensive meds and to ruin a nice hash house dab with Ti taste just seems to be a waste of $160 gram. I could take smaller dabs so the oils do not splash but i simply do not want to. Those are my challenges i was facing with dabbing and quartz bangers has been my solution.


**Edit**
Most of the quartz banger walls are 2mm thick which isnt very thick to suck a lot of heat. Any issue with heat would be with the insert not getting heated evenly cuz it does not fit the banger.

 

[Anon3200]

It sounds to me like you are happy with the products but you are not happy with the shipping/communications delays. I understand that. I'd be pissed if I was still waiting and did not already have my set up.

It sounds like there are a lot of things going on behind the scenes. We know Josh works hard and put in a ton of hours. I think it is just hard to start a small specialty business like this. I heard there were issues with suppliers that were beyond his control. I'm guessing that is why he just invested a ton of money into the equipment to make stuff in house. My guess is that this choice will be good for them in the long term but for now it has left them shorter on inventory and cash. I'd like to see them succeed, for them to catch up on their orders and to produce newer and better products in-house with better quality standards.

This expansion has to the risky and hard for Josh. This is when they could use their loyal customers support the most.

I expect that as they catch up on the liger orders and as the new investment is recouped that they will be able to improve customer service and begin only selling products that are in stock. Selling items that weren't in stock is probably the only way that Josh could stay in business during this expanse. I doubt a bank would give a loan for this sort of thing.

 

[Anon3200]

I will be honest though I am curious about opaque quartz. The little air bubbles gives more textured thermal surface which increases nucleation.

I'm sure we will see something similar from CCA as time progresses.

How many of these 30mm quartz bangers are just rebranded DHGate gavels?

 

[invertedisdead]

to ruin a nice hash house dab with Ti taste just seems to be a waste of $160 gram.

That Jolly Rancher

We've been getting a lot of Hash House in SD lately.

 

[Hogni]

Probably you are right in all points but nevertheless Josh isn't able to hold his dates and timeframes at least since spring '17. And the more probs he has the worse is communication with him. And that all really sucks.

 

[Shooby]

I will be honest though I am curious about opaque quartz. The little air bubbles gives more textured thermal surface which increases nucleation.

I'm sure we will see something similar from CCA as time progresses.

How many of these 30mm quartz bangers are just rebranded DHGate gavels?

Eternal is making or will be making when he has time, inserts for CCA with bottom opaque. Not full opaque which is what Cryptic is selling.

The only 30mm quartz i know of is Eternal, Toro and Hoyes. All uses GE214. I wont buy China glass to use daily. I will only buy them as a tester. I prefer brand name quartz with logos.


@invertedisdead That was my fav for a lil while. So tasty and clean.

 

[Anon3200]

Why would the vapor traveling through titanium hurt your lungs? Are you suggesting the temperature is different or that the titanium changes the chemical makeup of the vapor?

I cough more if I do a big dab on the 20mm. This is because the insert runs out of heat and vapor is not created fast enough. Then I am holding in a hit while new vapor is created or doing in two portions. Also, a hit with laggy vaporization will give more heavy stuff like wax toward the end, tastes less clean. With the 30mm insert, I can take a nice big (to me, not you crazy gram dabbers) dab smear it across the surface cap it and clear it in seconds without coughing.

What you are describing sounds like laggy vaporization to me.

I will fully agree that a thick quartz wall would provide extra heat (thermal mass) so if you overload the thermal capacity of your insert so you would be less likely to have vapor lag. Use a bigger/better insert or do smaller dabs = problem solved. Glob mode also helps with lag.

I think there is also a psychological factor, glass is clear and seems cleaner.

I



Your absolutely right. And you have every right to feel that way. I nor anyone on here have not pushed quartz bangers on anyone in this forum but rather note or state my goals and progress. I do not own or work for any quartz company.

I wanted to resolve two issues. First, to have options to the shittiest company in the vape business and to reduce my coughing. Having an all quartz banger and sapphire inserts for 25mm 30mm and 35mm bangers gives me options to see what i like the best for myself without having to wait for CCA to make something or ship somthing that will be scratched or nippled. Since switching to quartz, i cough less and not as hard. Oh wait, sorry, there is a third issue, taste. I want pure taste as i have been getting more expensive meds and to ruin a nice hash house dab with Ti taste just seems to be a waste of $160 gram. I could take smaller dabs so the oils do not splash but i simply do not want to. Those are my challenges i was facing with dabbing and quartz bangers has been my solution.


**Edit**
Most of the quartz banger walls are 2mm thick which isnt very thick to suck a lot of heat. Any issue with heat would be with the insert not getting heated evenly cuz it does not fit the banger.

 

[invertedisdead]

Are you suggesting the temperature is different or that the titanium changes the chemical makeup of the vapor?

I am. I think it changes the vapor enough that nobody in this thread wants to dab off it.

How can we all admit that, but not that the vapor path could have some effect?