Discontinued VapeXhale Cloud

[Seek]

The Cloud uses vortexing too. But differently.
The Cloud has 4 holes in the bamboo. Each one creates one vortex.
The first is prabably for preheating and cooling down the bottom part of the bamboo.
The 2nd and 3rd one are main heaters, making vortices in these small glass chambers to collect as much heat as possible.
The last one sends a vortex of heated air through the ELB.

Sub has 4 small holes facing to the side instead of the 4th hole in the Cloud, so it probably does a similar thing but very differently. I believe the 1 straight hole in the Cloud makes more of a vortexing action while the sub probably mixes the air little more.
The sub also has a Cloud-like hole below the herb to atomize, that is different. It would probably need a male-femake adapter with a restriction to replicate that.
Also the airpath before exiting from the 4 holes is still unknown. Wee need to see what inner geometry is there to compare it better theoreticaly.
Right now the sub seems to me like an overpriced electric Supreme with atomizer hole made specificaly for attaching into a bong.

 

[Buildozer]

....Here's what I did: sandwiched a small glass disc screen and steel screen together and wedged them together into the 14mm end of a male 14mm-to-female 18mm adapter. Then used the little assembly with VXC unit by torching to 500+ deg F prior to drawing from the bubbler. The idea, if I understood correctly from the sub/atom threads, being to have the ELB vapor additionally heated up prior to reaching the glass tube/bubs perc/cool-down chamber.

Also used a few extra glass adapters to move the torching activity away from the Mobius Clear bubbler itself. Should be more clear in 2nd and 3rd videos below. I made 3 videos to show this more clearly (hopefully)....
...I took all 3 hits pretty close together so no idea if the heated glass restriction makes any difference. I will try testing some more and post any new findings. Also would love to hear people's thoughts on this, the more ideas and feedback the better. Thanks in advance.

are you using your normal temp w/ the cloud and that restriction?? if you are, try upping it a little.. hopefully it will make more instant and dense vapor like the sub... it does w/ my vapor bros.. i use a little higher temp than i usually do w/o the restriction.. and a little smaller load ~.1.. and i also pre-heat the glass whip for like ten mins or so.. but the restriction in it is not heated.. despite that i have been getting good results.. its hard for me to tell, but how restricted is your setup? i'm glad some one is testing the heated restriction. i tried a few times but didn't notice any real improvement.. but i did only try a few times. IMO its working good enough for me w/o it heated, that i don't really care ATM. haha. i did a non-heated restriction, dry rip w/ stu's cloud.. i wish i had upped the temp though. it was at his normal temp. w/ my vapor bros and no restriction i use the dial at ~10-12.. w/ a restriction i use it at ~12-2, and get really good flavor.

 

[Vapinghole]

We had several algorithms in the past so there are units that perform differently at the same point on the dial but our next model, everything will be consistent. Some of the other inconsistencies were attributed to some of our manufacturing processes but I don't want to beat a dead horse as it is a sore subject around here and would rather focus on the future.

Stonemonkage. I agree. And y'all rock. Let's all move forward. Viva la Nimbus!!

 

[Timothy]

The Cloud uses vortexing too. But differently.
The Cloud has 4 holes in the bamboo. Each one creates one vortex.



Right now the sub seems to me like an overpriced electric Supreme with atomizer hole made specificaly for attaching into a bong.

The Cloud has restrictions in the bamboo which do not create a vortex, they create turbulence and assist in transfering the heat to the air. These restrictions are the same as the Vapocane and most wands for whip based vapes.

And I agree that the Sublimator seems overpriced. A friend of mine has a metal lathe which he uses as a hobby, I showed him the Sublimator and his point of view, is that most of the parts are can be turned on a simple metal lathe, no more difficult to make than those screw together $10 pipes that they sell at gas stations.
But pricing is subjective and you have to factor in start up cost and value is always in the eyes of the customer, as long as they are happy...

 

[Seek]

I can even see the vortex of vapor escaping the ELB when I use a dry mouthpiece. What you mean is the difference between vortex and turbulence?

 

[Timothy]

I can even see the vortex of vapor escaping the ELB when I use a dry mouthpiece. What you mean is the difference between vortex and turbulence?

Stonemonkey explained if my memory serves me that the restrictions are for heat transfer and to slow the air down just enough so that the air remains in the heating chamber just long enough to be heated to the set temperature, no matter how fast or slow a person inhales.

In order to cause a vortex in the bamboo the restrictions would need to be replaced with a corkscrew like design. I hope that helps. If not look up the 419 pipe website and look at the cutaways of their pipe, also watch the video of the clear plastic one which shows a twister effect.

 

[filteredhead]

are you using your normal temp w/ the cloud and that restriction?? if you are, try upping it a little.. hopefully it will make more instant and dense vapor like the sub... it does w/ my vapor bros.. i use a little higher temp than i usually do w/o the restriction.. and a little smaller load ~.1.. and i also pre-heat the glass whip for like ten mins or so.. but the restriction in it is not heated.. despite that i have been getting good results.. its hard for me to tell, but how restricted is your setup? i'm glad some one is testing the heated restriction. i tried a few times but didn't notice any real improvement.. but i did only try a few times. IMO its working good enough for me w/o it heated, that i don't really care ATM. haha. i did a non-heated restriction, dry rip w/ stu's cloud.. i wish i had upped the temp though. it was at his normal temp. w/ my vapor bros and no restriction i use the dial at ~10-12.. w/ a restriction i use it at ~12-2, and get really good flavor.

Yes was using my normal temp for those videos which is somewhere between 1:30 and 2:00 o'clock. Thanks for the feedback, Qs and your findings. yes upping the temp and pulling harder results in thicker vapor quicker however not as fast as it does on the Sublimator it seems from the videos. In the 3 videos I posted earlier the Cloud was set to my normal temp setting. In the 2nd and 3rd videos the heated restriction was used and note that the vapor takes longer to fill up the bub, I presume this was due to the higher restriction. I suspect my mod is not as restricted as the Sub atomizer or yours so that's an area I will look into and perhaps change with mine. Wrt heating the restriction, I wanted to try it after seeing a Sub video where it was mentioned that for the 'magic' to happen, it was important for the atomizer to be heated up to temp using the Apollo heater. In general i think I can feel the lighter high effects when running my cloud at 12 o'clock versus 3 o'clock. I wanted to test using the same heat level on the Cloud and then only add the atomizer to see if I can feel any difference.

This evening I set the Cloud to max temp 4 o'clock and used it with a dry bubbler. Had 2 separate sessions 5 hours apart with about 0.05g per hit, 2 hits per session. Again I did not notice a difference with the heated restriction added versus the Cloud by itself. Neither session made be cough, nor seemed harsher. I really could not distinguish/isolate any effects attributed to my high when using the heated restricted setup. Both sessions seemed close enough to me that i could not tell them apart. Without surprise, both of this evenings 4 o'clock sessions resulted in dark abv and degraded vapor flavor compared to running with my normal heat temp setting near or below 2pm. The upshot was that both sessions made me feel good and stoned with just a tiny bit of herb, gotta love this type of testing.

 

[Seek]

Stonemonkey explained if my memory serves me that the restrictions are for heat transfer and to slow the air down just enough so that the air remains in the heating chamber just long enough to be heated to the set temperature, no matter how fast or slow a person inhales.

Yes, the proccess i described (vortices in these heating chambers) is for this. With faster inhaling, these vortices spin more, therefore the air gets more contact with the hot glass, it goes faster and circles around more times before it exits.
This compensates the temp drops from faster inhales.

In order to cause a vortex in the bamboo the restrictions would need to be replaced with a corkscrew like design. I hope that helps. If not look up the 419 pipe website and look at the cutaways of their pipe, also watch the video of the clear plastic one which shows a twister effect.

What exactly is the difference between twister and vortex? Screw design would make the air spin too and with less drag, but wouldn't have that compensation curve as it wouldn't spin more with faster inhaling. The restriction makes the air spin too. I don't want to explain it, but it's physics. You can get more info about that in the patent. It was posted here somewhere.

 

[Timothy]

What exactly is the difference between twister and vortex? Screw design would make the air spin too and with less drag, but wouldn't have that compensation curve as it wouldn't spin more with faster inhaling. The restriction makes the air spin too. I don't want to explain it, but it's physics. You can get more info about that in the patent. It was posted here somewhere.

Well a "vortex" is a habitat in which vortices or "a spinning motion" can form with any fluid, which could mean gases or liquid. I know little about physics too. I also own a Cloud and tried blowing vapor though it by attaching a silicone hose to the bottom of the bamboo and exhaling vapor through it and it did not come out in a spinning, it still produces excellent vapor though, so spinning or not it preforms as well as I could ask.
I have not read the patent but the reductions do not cause a spinning motion, not in my experiment.

 

[Seek]

That was too far, a restriction will make the air spin for only few centimeters. Then the air calms down and goes straight again as there is nothing to keep it spinning (like the screw design mentioned). That is enough for spinning in heating chambers and through the ELB. When i use a dry tube, the spinning calms just two centimeters above the ELB. It would need a restriction every few centimeters to make the air spin through the whole tube.

 

[pakalolo]

Thanks to the great pictures from vtac above

I respectfully disagree about the "vortexing" to create a vortex or wirlwind effect you need to chanel the air a certain way. Do you see how the holes in the Apollo's heater are in drilled in a straight taper?

This would not cause the air to swirl, when someone is pulling air through, the air will simply follow the path of least resistance, which in this case is down.

This is just an hypothesis, but I have come to think that the restriction is slowing down the flow of air in a manner as such to allow the heat to concentrate on the herbal matierial for a longer period of time than most vaporizers with an "open airflow".

A great expample of this vortexing is the 419 pipe http://www.model419.com/magento/pics-videos.html

First, I did not say it was actually making a vortex, I said Enrico called it "vortexing". I said it was doing things to the airflow to increase extraction. So did you, so I guess you weren't disagreeing after all. Second, the air inlets lead into an inner chamber. I don't know what characteristics it might have, and neither do you. An actual vortex can't be ruled out.

If filteredhead continues to do experiments with his mods then perhaps we can start to understand more about how both the Cloud and the Sublimator work.

 

[Hippie Dickie]

As for the sub-atomizer my understanding is that it uses a single 1.7mm hole, whereas my hack glass disc/steel screen thingy has several tinier holes

the other difference with the atomizer on the sub is the several inch long tube coming out of the bottom of the atomizer. But a long glass tube would be hard to heat - no where near as much heat conduction with glass - you would have to torch the entire length, or several spots no more than 1" apart.

 

[lwien]

I have no idea if this has been posted up before, but I just ran across this review and I thought it was pretty well done, so here it is. Apologies if this is a repeat, but if not........enjoy: http://www.medicaljane.com/review/the-cloud-vaporizer-by-vapexhale/

 

[brewer]

Spending the weekend in Maine, brought along a cloud to show some friends and get them on board with its fun times.. Forgot elb's.... Anyone got an idea to improvise? There is a Home Depot in the neighborhood....

 

[John Lewus]

Spending the weekend in Maine, brought along a cloud to show some friends and get them on board with its fun times.. Forgot elb's.... Anyone got an idea to improvise? There is a Home Depot in the neighborhood....

Try pulling off some qtips wrapping your bud in cotton. You would have to wedge a big enough piece to cover the male joint so when you wedge in it does not just fall through. A piece of fabric might work better. Tape could help hold in place temporarily. I imagine the hydra tube could pinch the fabric/bud to hold it in place.

 

[mmafighterthe25]

so is the nimbus suppose to give better hits, will it have even more improved performance.

 

[Pickz]

so is the nimbus suppose to give better hits, will it have even more improved performance.

I do not believe there are any specifics about it yet, but they did say:

We went back and forth about how much we should improve this unit and we thought it would be a waste of time if we did everything EXACTLY the same. What we did was make incremental improvements without increasing the price of the machine.

Hope that answers some questions.

 

[Buildozer]

Yes was using my normal temp for those videos which is somewhere between 1:30 and 2:00 o'clock. Thanks for the feedback, Qs and your findings. yes upping the temp and pulling harder results in thicker vapor quicker however not as fast as it does on the Sublimator it seems from the videos. In the 3 videos I posted earlier the Cloud was set to my normal temp setting. In the 2nd and 3rd videos the heated restriction was used and note that the vapor takes longer to fill up the bub, I presume this was due to the higher restriction. I suspect my mod is not as restricted as the Sub atomizer or yours so that's an area I will look into and perhaps change with mine. Wrt heating the restriction, I wanted to try it after seeing a Sub video where it was mentioned that for the 'magic' to happen, it was important for the atomizer to be heated up to temp using the Apollo heater. In general i think I can feel the lighter high effects when running my cloud at 12 o'clock versus 3 o'clock. I wanted to test using the same heat level on the Cloud and then only add the atomizer to see if I can feel any difference.

This evening I set the Cloud to max temp 4 o'clock and used it with a dry bubbler. Had 2 separate sessions 5 hours apart with about 0.05g per hit, 2 hits per session. Again I did not notice a difference with the heated restriction added versus the Cloud by itself. Neither session made be cough, nor seemed harsher. I really could not distinguish/isolate any effects attributed to my high when using the heated restricted setup. Both sessions seemed close enough to me that i could not tell them apart. Without surprise, both of this evenings 4 o'clock sessions resulted in dark abv and degraded vapor flavor compared to running with my normal heat temp setting near or below 2pm. The upshot was that both sessions made me feel good and stoned with just a tiny bit of herb, gotta love this type of testing.

IMO the cloud was hard to tell the difference w/ the restriction.. the cloud is incredibly smooth and awesome as it is.. stu didn't notice a real difference either.. but w/ my vapor bros its night and day.. i had a feeling upping the temp wouldn't be enough for the cloud.. i suspect its because the male joint doesn't get nearly as hot as my preheated whip.. which IMO is most important for that instant dense vapor like the sub gives.. i want to ask charliedontsurf if he would be willing to try and make me a 1-pc. custom bowl for my Vapor Bros.. that has a glass restriction closer to the bowl.. to minimize the size of it all.. and so it could get pre-heated w/ my whip bowl... so i can do a more accurate test.. even if it doesn't stay hot enough at the restriction.. i would still be happy w/ it.. i'll draw a rough idea of what i'm talking about and take a pic of it by the vb whip.. i'll try to get around to it today and edit it back into this post.. but no promises, i'm in no rush ATM ha.. i was going to draw it up and do the picture beside the whip anyway because i wanted to show it to CDS and see what he thought. so i'll just post it here too when i make time for it. keep experimenting man, that's what its all about.. if you get any interesting results, it would be cool to bring it up in the Vapor Path Restriction thread too. just to have more related info in one place.

 

[Lostclusters]

+1 for the $1000 level. After I contributed it said that the campaign total was $11,575

 

[luchiano]

IMO the cloud was hard to tell the difference w/ the restriction.. the cloud is incredibly smooth and awesome as it is.. stu didn't notice a real difference either.. but w/ my vapor bros its night and day.. i had a feeling upping the temp wouldn't be enough for the cloud.. i suspect its because the male joint doesn't get nearly as hot as my preheated whip.. which IMO is most important for that instant dense vapor like the sub gives.. i want to ask charliedontsurf if he would be willing to try and make me a 1-pc. custom bowl for my Vapor Bros.. that has a glass restriction closer to the bowl.. to minimize the size of it all.. and so it could get pre-heated w/ my whip bowl... so i can do a more accurate test.. even if it doesn't stay hot enough at the restriction.. i would still be happy w/ it.. i'll draw a rough idea of what i'm talking about and take a pic of it by the vb whip.. i'll try to get around to it today and edit it back into this post.. but no promises, i'm in no rush ATM ha.. i was going to draw it up and do the picture beside the whip anyway because i wanted to show it to CDS and see what he thought. so i'll just post it here too when i make time for it. keep experimenting man, that's what its all about.. if you get any interesting results, it would be cool to bring it up in the Vapor Path Restriction thread too. just to have more related info in one place.

I will make a post about this in the vapor restriction thread.

 

[Pappy]

My Clouds work so shitty that they keep wearing out these ELBs... Not!

 

[Seek]

They only look heavily discolored to me. What is the reason they got retired?
I have retired only one ELB so far because I broke it with force. They can work for months or years i think.
They look ok to me, if you don't want them, you can seey send me some

 

[Pappy]

They only look heavily discolored to me. What is the reason they got retired?
I have retired only one ELB so far because I broke it with force. They can work for months or years i think.
They look ok to me, if you don't want them, you can seey send me some

Punctured seams or mesh, THC tar, or deformed by accident... These ELBs are years old, have stepped on and set on fire. Saving them for rainy day or... On sale now, $4 for 5, LOL!

 

[oldiebutgoodie]

so is the nimbus suppose to give better hits, will it have even more improved performance.

fwiw, SM posted this on indiegogo last night:

I just got to test the Nimbus prototype and it lives up to all expectations!

I've been hoping that this week we would hear more about those "updates" that Troi ref'd to, which I presume to be the "expectations" that Nimbus lives up to.

Side note: I wonder if more explanation re the Plus upgrade/warranty might not also be helpful to the campaign? Troi indicated that Plus repairs would resume with start-up of VXL's in-house manufacturing facility; does that include the Plus upgrades and will the Plus still be supported through the extended warranty period? That would seem to mean that VXL would have to either maintain different components (for the Plus as well as the Nimbus) or that the Nimbus internals can be retrofitted into a Cloud (does that make a Cloud Plus into a Plimbus?). Or???

 

[John Lewus]

After reading the posts in this forum about the atomizer and how it works and how the restricted air flow might help the cloud it got me wondering how accurately the temperature is kept during the draw process on the cloud or any of the vapes. I don't know where the temperature sensor is on the cloud but I do know it is not in the air path that flows over the glass.

I had that Eureka moment when I realized that my expensive thermoworks thermapen meat thermometer has a long pointed metal rod for measuring temps. This thermometer can get accurate temperatures within 3 seconds. At least it gives a basis for comparison. I was inspired by the herbalizer's claim of always being within 5 degrees Fahrenheit and it had me wondering if that was truly the temperature of the air or not. Well I only have the cloud to compare to.

Setup
1 old ticker style cloud laid on its side turned on for 40 minutes to get to a steady state heat. Ambient temperature was around 70F. I setup the thermapen so that the tip went into the male joint inside the shaft centered mid air a couple mm before the little hole where the air comes out. Nothing was touching the glass and I went to great care to keep the thermapen at equal distance around the glass not touching the glass inside the male joint. The dial was at the 9 oclock position. Since I had the thermapen stuck down the male joint and not up the rear I had to blow through the female flared bottom to simulate as if I was sucking air through the male joint. There is probably some variance in the heat of my breathe but I don't think it would alter the final temp by any significant margin.

Experiment
After 40 min I let the cloud get to a steady state and measured the temperature. The cloud was on its side. I then blew air through the bottom at a reasonably fast pace and measured the final temp. I waited ~30 second between each blow and measured subsequent temperatures. I then did 2 sets of 10 quick fast blows to simulate the hardest possible pull on the cloud by someone with lungs greater than myself. I waited another 30 seconds and did 3 very long slow draws.

Results
Steady State after 40 min - 210F
Blow 1 - 303
Blow 2 - 308
Blow 3 - 304
10 fast blows - 296
10 fast blows - 292
Long slow blow - 308
Long slow blow - 312
Long slow blow - 318

Conclusions
For my old ticker model the cloud does a very respectable job of keeping the actual airflow around a particular temperature point even with hard draws. The range I measured was 26 degree Fahrenheit difference from the absolute worst case of hitting it with 20 hard fast blows to the third time in a row I did a very very slow long draw.

What I find interesting and obvious if you think about it is that the cloud maintains a higher temperature by about 10 degrees if you pull very slow which I sometimes do. If you pull in roughly the same way each time then each pull was within 5 degrees of each other. These conclusions are all based off of one single experiment so even though I quote exact numbers I think the only thing you can draw from this is that (slower draws produce higher temps and in my observation slightly thicker clouds at the same temp setting). I have seen people make the statement in this thread that you hitting the cloud hard pulls thicker vapor. I disagree and think that a very slow pull will always pull slightly thicker vapor at a given dial setting.

How hard you pull does have a small difference in how the cloud functions. I was impressed with how well it maintained a particular temperature range during a normal blow. I wish there was a way to get the actual temperature in real time displayed while you used the device.

I will continue to do this test at different temperatures to at least figure out what the range is on my ticker cloud.