VapCap Induction Heater for Desktop and in Car Use

[LabPong]

Ok, I might give this a try. It's not like my PSM is so hot that it doesn't work well, it just clicks like 2 sec sooner than my caldron. I had thought that adding a silicone disc in the chamber might affect how even the roast is in the chamber, but if it really just slows down the click a bit then it is worth a try. My unit was made without the silicone pad and uses that half rhinestone piece.

Adding a shim would only move the heat center point away from the middle area of the tip .....with the PSM and Caldrons....I found that I could add almost 3mm of shims without any issues. With the 2mm shim in the PSM or Caldrons... I got maybe 1-2 seconds slower to click.

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

I have been exploring the use of a 2mm silicone shim to make this adjustment to my PSM. I know that silicone oven mitts were recommended as a source for the silicone. I have looked online at a lot of oven mitts, gloves and mats but have found them to be either too thin, strangely textured or not mentioning how thick they are at all.
I was wondering if someone can recommend a glove or product that worked well for them?

 

[TommyDee]

@BabyFacedFinster - https://www.ebay.com/itm/333378056157 You can always remove the adhesive.

 

[shopdognyc]

@BabyFacedFinster - https://www.ebay.com/itm/333378056157 You can always remove the adhesive.

What thickness do you suggest?

 

[TommyDee]

I find that the face of the cap flush with the bottom of the coil does very well as a generic starting point. This won't cloud up the first draw, but if you follow George's technique, the second will be a ball buster.

If you do go for the hottest hit on the first heating, you will very likely combust the second heating in the session. The smaller the coil, the more sensitive this setting becomes.

The good news is that this heat-2-click relation is fairly consistent between different caps in the same IH. Only dead caps that are way outside the norm do not follow this method. By the same token, any cap will draw right at the same power another cap draws. Not the rate, but the overall packet of energy is the same.

With PSM and Caldron, the coil is fairly forgiving. A 2mm reduced depth will provide a notable faster click with less heat.

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

With PSM and Caldron, the coil is fairly forgiving. A 2mm reduced depth will provide a notable faster click with less heat.

Ok, now I'm not sure I understand anymore.

I was going to add the 2mm silicone shim in order to slow down my PSM and extend the time to click, not a faster click. I imagined a better heat soak on the first hit as a result of the prolonged time to reach the click temp. However, I also envisioned this longer cycle to hold off the roasted flavor until the 3rd or 4th hit.

Am I looking at this wrong? Again, I love both IH's but the PSM roasts a bit too quick in a shorter period of time. My caldron takes a few seconds longer to click and you also get to enjoy the terpy flavors for the first couple hits. A slightly more prolonged and enjoyable session.

 

[TommyDee]

The IH is similar to the flame. A flame up towards digger adds more heat. With an IH, the clicker "past the end of the coil" also adds more heat. The key element is to understand that the clicker is a 'delay'. The closer the clicker is to the center of the coil, the faster it will click, meaning less heat imparted to the cap.

@BabyFacedFinster - you want a little more depth. You can do this by adjusting the coil 'up' on the glass [away from the switch].

As to tuning for a cloudy first draw invariably sets you up for combustion on the second. I tune to George's 'perfect' draw... sort-of. George recommends heating to the click and take a small terp draw, then place the VC on the magnet for quick-cooling the clicker. Once it clicks, reheat to the click. At this point, George says to draw like hell, airport fully open. This makes for one serious hit! It works because the chamber has time to act like an oven. This is what I aim for when tuning my IH's. Combustion should be an outlier, not the worry.

...edit - the "sort-of" above is that I like more than terp on the first hit. Completely doable! I just tune for the second hit, not the first. That normally provides a good first draw too.

 

[RustyOldNail]

@TommyDee
Excellent and informative posts today. I like to tune my FD like you said in the end: “I just tune for the second hit, not the first. That normally provides a good first draw too.”

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

The IH is similar to the flame. A flame up towards digger adds more heat. With an IH, the clicker "past the end of the coil" also adds more heat. The key element is to understand that the clicker is a 'delay'. The closer the clicker is to the center of the coil, the faster it will click, meaning less heat imparted to the cap.

@BabyFacedFinster - you want a little more depth. You can do this by adjusting the coil 'up' on the glass [away from the switch].

As to tuning for a cloudy first draw invariably sets you up for combustion on the second. I tune to George's 'perfect' draw... sort-of. George recommends heating to the click and take a small terp draw, then place the VC on the magnet for quick-cooling the clicker. Once it clicks, reheat to the click. At this point, George says to draw like hell, airport fully open. This makes for one serious hit! It works because the chamber has time to act like an oven. This is what I aim for when tuning my IH's. Combustion should be an outlier, not the worry.

...edit - the "sort-of" above is that I like more than terp on the first hit. Completely doable! I just tune for the second hit, not the first. That normally provides a good first draw too.

Thanks so much for your time @TommyDee. I'm sorry it is taking me so long to wrap my head around this. I tend to be more visual on how I grasp concepts, so I have to re-read this stuff a few times and then visualize the explanation in my head.

My misconception is I equated having a faster time to click with greater heat to the chamber. Really what's happening is in my PSM, the clicker is centered closest to the center of the coil and is reaching threshold heat, causing a click before the chamber reaches its optimum extraction temp. In my C, the clicker must sit lower in the coil, because when heating begins the digger-outer portion of the cap is closest to the coil center. Thus it will recieve a greater amount of heat before the clicker end reaches its own temp threshold, causing the click.

What I guess I wanted was for my chamber to work best as an "oven" on the very first hit of a cold tip and maintain that optimal temp through the next few hits, just by cooling and heating to click. You may be able to acheive this, but it would be acheived by learning to heat a vapcap tip by feel, rather than by click.

So if my PSM is giving me too roasty of a first hit, what I should do is try adding a 2mm silicone shim on top of my rhinestone. This would give me an even faster click that the 3-4 seconds it's already set at, but will give me a slower extraction on the first hit because there will be less heat given to the chamber to act as an oven. If I wanted to extend the click time on the PSM, I would allow the cap to sit deeper in the coil, away from the coil center, but this would provide a lot of oven heat on the first hit and possibly too much heat on subsequent hits.

How's that?

 

[TommyDee]

Excellent @BabyFacedFinster - that is the right way of thinking about it.

The other equation is the overall power the IH puts out. If the deeper seat is 'hyper', you can calm this by snipping one of the capacitors. The click profile will remain the same but the heating rate will be slower.

Now mind you - this is cap dependent. I will always recommend making sure the profile still works for a 2020 cap. They are 'lightweight' in regard to IHs. I like the older caps but they do tend to get hot much faster.

And you have a PSM. These battery power units have a much different heating rate at the end of the battery than at a fresh charge. This makes tuning them a little harder. I can only suggest getting 2-3 sessions in when deciding what's right.

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

The other equation is the overall power the IH puts out. If the deeper seat is 'hyper', you can calm this by snipping one of the capacitors. The click profile will remain the same but the heating rate will be slower.

I have a new standard cap on the way. Curious to see what effect it has with some different tips.

My PSM already heats to click in about 3-4 sec. If I wanted a more mellow heat up out of the gate, it would mean an extremely short click time. Maybe a decrease in power might be the thing. Are there any youtube vids showing how to snip out a capacitor? IDK if I would have the balls to mess with it.

 

[Pipes]

There is no need to completely remove the cap. You just snip one leg and bend the un-used leg in a bit so it's out of the way.
That's it, you're done. Just leave enough leg left so it can be bent over and soldered to the adjacent leg again to reverse the mod if need be.
Easy to mod, a tad bit harder to un-mod, but still easy.

 

[TommyDee]

I have a new standard cap on the way. Curious to see what effect it has with some different tips.

My PSM already heats to click in about 3-4 sec. If I wanted a more mellow heat up out of the gate, it would mean an extremely short click time. Maybe a decrease in power might be the thing. Are there any youtube vids showing how to snip out a capacitor? IDK if I would have the balls to mess with it.

The new cap will tell a lot. A cap that clicks in 3-4 seconds in a Caldron is a keeper. It is an older high iron cap that links hard with the magnetic field. The new cap will be a Goldilocks cap in a hot heater. You can tell me I'm wrong when you get the new cap and you will not hurt my feelings one way or another. I am aware I am going on heavy assumptions here but this mimics my adventure into old and new caps. And I took data. If indeed the new cap also clicks in 3-4 seconds, I'll eat crow. I'm betting 5 second with a similar bake

The only reason I know this stuff is that I dove off the deep end in figuring this widget out. I simply don't know how to share the difference in an effective way.

I was going to put some number behind this as well. Let me do that. brb

Edit; okay, so here is my analogy - I am assuming you are drawing nearly 8 amps or whatever your power supply can muster to achieve a 3-4 second click. Let's keep it real at a 90 watts draw from the power supply for a moment. I don't have the perfect setup for my test atm but the snipped cap should be about 15 watts less. IMHO, 90 watts is too hot. 75 watts is hot but manageable for a hot cap. This would bring the 2020 cap in at about 60 watts. 60 watts is nearly ideal for the older caps. At 75 watts, you are fairly universal for any v-cap you throw at it.

@BabyFacedFinster - does your hot cap have a DYn-nnnn serial number under the "Made in USA" on the outside? My '18 is marked "DY7-nnnn".

 

[Pipes]

Now just to add yet another variable about the heating along with all the other many variables.
Insertion placement, other than depth, also plays a role. Inserting on an angle or as close to the glass tube as possible will also do things.
If you look at the diagram below, taking out one of the caps, which will lower the frequency by 1/2, will deepen the eddy line penetration. I suspect this is why the power drops as there is not much metal past the VC shell. Except for the bottom and screen.
So before you do the mod, do some playing here as this effect will lessen after the mod.
Also, yes, different VCs behave differently. Model, year, material, or even different batches seem to make noticeable differences between how VCs behave. All boils down to how much iron is in the mix.

 

[TommyDee]

Also known as 'electrical reference depth'. Caps are pretty thin, fortunately. Great illustration!

 

[Planck]

Seems like a non metallic nut and bolt would provide an easy and precise depth adjustment. Delrin, nylon that sort of thing. I imagine the issue with that scheme is how to activate switch?

I don't have an IH just woodshedding. My mind tells me it thinks this is an interesting design problem.

I see myself out thanks.

 

[TommyDee]

There is a happy sweet spot @Planck .

 

[Planck]

@TommyDee Yes of course there is and its called and alcohol lamp.

Kidding aside your sweet spot and my sweet spot are very likely different.
Clipping caps; not anywhere near my sweet spot.
Turning the screw; hell yeah.

I suggest there are several sweet spots, for me at least that is fact. Strain, moisture content, mood, desired result, time allotted are a few of the factors that will define my sweetest spot at that unique point in time. It is a moving target. I use a portable ~100 billion neuron network as a controller.

I had not see a post from your for sometime, was somewhat concerned so that is a relief. Cheers.

 

[TommyDee]

I'm in lab doing IH work @Planck Thanks for the concern The testing is the best part of the work.

 

[Pistol Pete]

I'm interested in an additional power cord for my Caldron so I can use it in another room. BTW my favorite way to use the Caldron is with a dry vapor cooler from Dave at DDaveMods.

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

@BabyFacedFinster - does your hot cap have a DYn-nnnn serial number under the "Made in USA" on the outside? My '18 is marked "DY7-nnnn".

Yes, the caps I use most often are both marked with the DY7-nnnn. I believe each came with a 19M. When my new cap arrives I will check on the click times and report back.

 

[TommyDee]

@BabyFacedFinster - Thanks for that. Those DY7-nnnn caps should have a true separation between clicks. They may also have a habit of a last cooldown click when your session well over with.

These are 'high iron' caps. They pull the most power out of an IH. Where these caps pull 80 watts, a 2020 cap will pull 60 watts. Awareness is all one needs to understand how to use the IH properly for each. You will have a different experience with the newer cap.

The reason I asked was to know the best advice to give @BabyFacedFinster - those older caps benefit from taming the IH. My '18 cap is the reason I came up with the 'HalfPint' IH. My experience says that the older caps act more like the newer caps in the IH if you clip the lead on the capacitor. However, the 2020 caps will lag in heating performance afterwards. The 2020 will still heat and click appropriately, just slow. This is the only reason for my caveats as to the solution. Take care of that old cap. They are becoming more rare every day. My '18 is the hardest hitting cap I own. I have a couple of '19s that are close.

Edit - Brainfart - Why not put a switch on the cap's leg Let me count the ways LOL

 

[BabyFacedFinster]

@BabyFacedFinster - Thanks for that. Those DY7-nnnn caps should have a true separation between clicks. They may also have a habit of a last cooldown click when your session well over with.

These are 'high iron' caps. They pull the most power out of an IH. Where these caps pull 80 watts, a 2020 cap will pull 60 watts. Awareness is all one needs to understand how to use the IH properly for each. You will have a different experience with the newer cap.

The reason I asked was to know the best advice to give @BabyFacedFinster - those older caps benefit from taming the IH. My '18 cap is the reason I came up with the 'HalfPint' IH. My experience says that the older caps act more like the newer caps in the IH if you clip the lead on the capacitor. However, the 2020 caps will lag in heating performance afterwards. The 2020 will still heat and click appropriately, just slow. This is the only reason for my caveats as to the solution. Take care of that old cap. They are becoming more rare every day. My '18 is the hardest hitting cap I own. I have a couple of '19s that are close.

Edit - Brainfart - Why not put a switch on the cap's leg Let me count the ways LOL

The new cap should be here tomorrow. I look forward to some experimenting.

I have one cap that came with a second gen tip. The cap is so enlongated, compared to others, that it doesn't even fit properly on most stems. The digger hits the top of most stems before the tip "hits bottom" within the cap and it doesn't seat properly.

 

[RustyOldNail]

@BabyFacedFinster - Thanks for that. Those DY7-nnnn caps should have a true separation between clicks. They may also have a habit of a last cooldown click when your session well over with.

These are 'high iron' caps. They pull the most power out of an IH. Where these caps pull 80 watts, a 2020 cap will pull 60 watts. Awareness is all one needs to understand how to use the IH properly for each. You will have a different experience with the newer cap.

The reason I asked was to know the best advice to give @BabyFacedFinster - those older caps benefit from taming the IH. My '18 cap is the reason I came up with the 'HalfPint' IH. My experience says that the older caps act more like the newer caps in the IH if you clip the lead on the capacitor. However, the 2020 caps will lag in heating performance afterwards. The 2020 will still heat and click appropriately, just slow. This is the only reason for my caveats as to the solution. Take care of that old cap. They are becoming more rare every day. My '18 is the hardest hitting cap I own. I have a couple of '19s that are close.

Edit - Brainfart - Why not put a switch on the cap's leg Let me count the ways LOL

Interesting, wish I had an old cap to test. 60w versus 80w, wonder if this was DV planned, laying the groundwork for their future, (now cuurent) BATTERY IH units. Longer battery life and a bit less stress on battery pack. I doubt iron has gone up substantially to use less. And torchers most likely would never notice this subtle difference. Just a thought.

 

[TommyDee]

Interesting, wish I had an old cap to test. 60w versus 80w, wonder if this was DV planned, laying the groundwork for their future, (now cuurent) BATTERY IH units. Longer battery life and a bit less stress on battery pack. I doubt iron has gone up substantially to use less. And torchers most likely would never notice this subtle difference. Just a thought.

I've pondered these avenues extensively to no avail. I do believe George has been dialing in a particular experience. I'm only curious to know as to how conscious this material decision was. I do believe the IH performance and the, at the time, pending patent could have been elements of the change, yes. However, I equally believe that a new supplier or material came along and here we are.

The '19 caps are a bit hotter than the '20. I'm having to check providence on Reddit to see what people are really selling. I'm glad these things are serialized.