you’re fully entitled to your opinion my man...trouble be damned
you’re fully entitled to your opinion my man...trouble be damned
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
Seriously I don't get the hate... I stopped posting largely because of it. I mean I hate my Plenty (the one that looks like some kind of Black & Decker tool) but I don't go on their thread and post about it all the time, telling everyone who likes it that they are horrible lying shills. I've posted about it like 3 times in 6 years (other than here, and I've probably posted here about 3 times saying that I barely ever posted about it before LOL!).
In the meantime ...
I finally got the innards out of my Wild Vaple. I'm wondering if new innards can go in it now because I really loved my Wild Vaple.
I'm not using my Hawaiian Koa SC3+ at all, it is a beautiful piece but I like the chunky dogs and the Koa is a Twig. I will give it another go but I'm not hopeful. It works fine, it just doesn't feel as good in my hand as the alpha. It is the thinnest dog I've ever had and I didn't realize how much difference that might make in my hand. Nothing wrong with the dog, it is purely an aesthetic thing.
I do want another dog but I want a chunky dog, so either another Alpha or at least something as chunky as my Wild Vaple.
Stem report: I've used all the stems now that I got from UD and from Alan at HI and I like them all. Dropping a fine 1/2" screen in on top of an upside-down (eg flat side up) basket screen lets me use that powdered shake I got like 2 years ago now. I'm on my last 1/2 oz of that. I can also drop the 1/2" fine screens on top of a regular UD glass stem and hold it in place with a silicone tip, and I have become quite enamoured of the silicone tubing for sticking things together and making "air lock" tips.
There is a huge advantage to using the flat screens, number one being you don't have to make a basket screen LOL! But they also require next to no cleaning, and popping them out and back in is super easy most of the time. When the silicone tubing was new, I had to use a button battery to hold the screen in place to fit the silicone tubing over it to hold it in place, but over time the tubing loosens up a bit. Even easier for the Alpha dog, I just dump the flat screen into a tiny bowl I have (ABV, screen, and all), then all I have to do is pick up the flat screen, brush it off, and drop it back in on top of the upside-down basket screen LOL!.
It also keeps the basket screen cleaner so even that doesn't have to get popped out and cleaned. I have only had to clean the basket screen on my glass one-hitter once (its the only basket screen that comes into direct contact with herb, of all the ones I'm currently using). I haven't had to clean the basket screens in anything else yet. There is still a basket screen in the regular size UD glass stem because I didn't bother to remove it before affixing the flat screen to the top, and the basket screen in the Alpha glass stem has to be there to support the flat screen. That basket screen has collected matter along the sides of the basket screen but not enough to matter.
The plus side of using a silicone tip to hold a flat screen in place is that it becomes easier to remove/replace the screen should that ever become necessary (and so far just blowing it out is magical). The minus side is I have to remember to pinch the tip slightly because it is now possible to blow the screen out LOL! But then you can slip it back in pretty easily.
So ... really hard to do the first couple of times, after that, really easy. Same is true of using silicone tubing as glass-piece connectors (I use a 3/8" and a 1/2" glass stems to make my glass one hitter) or air-lock tips. I use a piece of 3/8" tubing on the tip of the glass one-hitter, with a piece of 1/2" tubing on top of that. The 3/8" tubing is so the 1/2" tubing will fit on the 3/8" tip and hold it in place, and the 1/2" tubing is the air-lock. I am actually not convinced that an air-lock on the glass one hitter is significantly different, but it makes a huge difference on both of the larger glass stems. The larger the stem, the more useful a silicone tip is.
My stem of choice is still my Frankenstem, my glass one hitter. I also get occasional use from a regular UD glass stem with a flat fine screen held in place with a piece of silicone tubing, which also acts as an "air lock" around the heater core and cuts down on hot-spotting and tunneling, particularly for the Alpha glass direct draw stem. But the Alpha stem actually takes SUCH a large load that I find it is overkill for me, personally, at least 98% of the time. I don't see how anyone couldn't get all they want out of the Alpha glass direct draw stem with an Alpha dog, even without the tip to reduce tunneling.
However I have come to the conclusion (I was frankly already there, actually) that more is not better when it comes to weed. Personally I get more out of more, smaller loads than one big load, but to each their own.
I mean really. Some people actually feel about the Plenty the way I feel about Underdog log vapes. I don't get why, but I get the feeling, LOL!
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I feel ya brother.........lolz.
Whaaaaaat?! Are y'all trying to say that me and my Dogs aren't universally loved?
@CurryLeafTreehugger - you could send the Vaple and Koa Pups in and we could (probably) put new innards (what happened to the old ones?) in the Vaple and transfer the Koa core to a chunkier body and I'll rebuild/reuse the Koa later.
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
Whaaaaaat?! Are y'all trying to say that me and my Dogs aren't universally loved?
@CurryLeafTreehugger - you could send the Vaple and Koa Pups in and we could (probably) put new innards (what happened to the old ones?) in the Vaple and transfer the Koa core to a chunkier body and I'll rebuild/reuse the Koa later.
The Wild Vaple was originally an air core that started to rattle, which, when I mentioned it off-handedly (thinking I needed to tighten a nut somewhere) it turned out was an issue with some vape bodies back then charring. So you replaced it under warranty. It originally had an air core in it. So between the charring (which doesn't seem TOO bad, I stopped using it right away once I realized what the issue was) and the different core now, I'm not sure one of the newer cores would still fit in there. But if it could take a new core without having to significantly ream it out (thus making the body thinner), then I would go that way if possible.
I got the ring clip out with the help of two nutpicks, which now have bent tips LOL! So the innards are out, but I haven't punched the power connector out of the side. I figured it might be glued in there.
The Koa - there is not a thing wrong with it, except I like a chunkier body. It is only slightly thinner than the Tiger Vaple (SC2) that replaced the Wild Vaple (Air in a chunky body), but apparently it crossed a line for me because I was good with the Tiger Vaple but am not grokking the Koa. It is a BEAUTIFUL piece of wood. It is one of the top 2 or 3 loveliest wood bodies I've ever seen you turn out. But I wish the wall was like 1/8" thicker LOL!
Would you HAVE to actually rebuild it? It's pretty close to pristine, could you not resell it as-is in that case? I'd be good with store credit (for the amount you can resell it for) until something chunkier becomes available. Seems like unnecessary extra work given how little I've used it - and I've waxed it up and buffed it out three times since I've had it. I wasn't thinking of making you take it back at all, but especially not if its going to be extra work for you.
It really is a beautiful, beautiful piece of wood. I'm having a hard time contemplating letting it go, but given that I'm not picking it up when I've had the opportunity, that would probably be best.
vapingtortoise
Tortoise
By some crazy turn of events it's arriving today!!!
arb
Semi shaved ape
Ah ok, didn't realize it was an old Air Core. Sometimes the body shrinks around those cores and traps them in the wooden body but if it is out or can come out then we could probably rebuild that body into a whole new vape. If it's too charred out in the middle I can usually bore it out past the char and press in a new center so it's basically a new piece of wood on the inside... can't do that on a skinny body very often but a chunky one is usually doable. Not sure what I'd charge for that without actually looking at it so I could estimate the time-sink but I'd be happy to look at it for you.
RE: the Koa SC3+ - it's usually better for me to totally take something apart and rework it on the lathe then install a new core and sell it as a new Pup rather than to sell it as a used one.. usually. It's basically just a balance between which costs me more a discounted sale or the time/labor to rework.
I have a chunky Koa body that I was playing with for a possible custom but the blank had a couple small cracks in the base and I couldn't get it
to work out for the desired shape. It was setup for an Alpha but I could swap in an SC3 Founders (basically a SC3+ with a wider Alpha top plate)
easily enough since they share the same dimensions. We could trade straight across if you wanted?
vapingtortoise
Tortoise
It arrived! Just set it up to warm up while I finish some work. Dang they changed the uploading to FC huh...I'll see if I can upload some pics with my old dog in a bit
Sorry, last image isn't that clear may take some more later. I really like the leather(or pleather?) on this one it is super neat! I have used a bunch of vapes but due to life and all that lots of them came and went. Used to have 2 UDs in college but ended up giving those to good friends and picked up the 'walnut twig'(I think?) about 3 years ago now. I think it's an SC2 core but can't tell for sure.
The Chinese Pistache is a very interesting wood to look at! The holes on the top rim and side really give the log some character.
Sorry, last image isn't that clear may take some more later. I really like the leather(or pleather?) on this one it is super neat! I have used a bunch of vapes but due to life and all that lots of them came and went. Used to have 2 UDs in college but ended up giving those to good friends and picked up the 'walnut twig'(I think?) about 3 years ago now. I think it's an SC2 core but can't tell for sure.
The Chinese Pistache is a very interesting wood to look at! The holes on the top rim and side really give the log some character.
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
@underdog -
I'll keep the wild vaple and use it as a stem stand, turns out it is drilled out PERFECTLY for the base of whatever stem I am using to drop all the way to the bottom and stand upright. I can actually "stack" my 2 most frequently used stems in it and it is still stable LOL! But usually I will just put whatever stem I am currently using in it and leave the rest in the harder-to-reach Mason jar with my other vaping tools (like the nutpicks and pushers and whatnot). Otherwise I ended up laying my current stem on the table on its side, until pretty soon there is a stack of stems I was using (fairly) recently.
Corralling is good!
Also on thinking further about it, much as I loved that Wild Vaple, I loved it because it smelled like maple while I was using it - which, it didn't occur to me until I was reading your last post (or if it did I've forgotten it in the interim) - would have been because it was slow-burning on the inside. So I am unlikely to get that aroma back, which was the main unique feature of that vape. So I'll dig up the leather bottom for it (I think its in my humidor) and glue it back on and keep it as it is.
For the Koa, if it has to be reworked, I'll just try to sell it on the forum because I'm assuming UD won't want the extra trouble of having to rebuild it, especially when there is not a single thing wrong with it. I've barely used it - what do you guys think is a fair price for that? It is this one:
I paid $345 and I have used it less than a dozen times in the time that I've had it - 2 months come June 5. And I have waxed 'er up and buffed her out 3 times. I've probably used it a total of 5 days in the time I've had it.
I'll keep the wild vaple and use it as a stem stand, turns out it is drilled out PERFECTLY for the base of whatever stem I am using to drop all the way to the bottom and stand upright. I can actually "stack" my 2 most frequently used stems in it and it is still stable LOL! But usually I will just put whatever stem I am currently using in it and leave the rest in the harder-to-reach Mason jar with my other vaping tools (like the nutpicks and pushers and whatnot). Otherwise I ended up laying my current stem on the table on its side, until pretty soon there is a stack of stems I was using (fairly) recently.
Corralling is good!
Also on thinking further about it, much as I loved that Wild Vaple, I loved it because it smelled like maple while I was using it - which, it didn't occur to me until I was reading your last post (or if it did I've forgotten it in the interim) - would have been because it was slow-burning on the inside. So I am unlikely to get that aroma back, which was the main unique feature of that vape. So I'll dig up the leather bottom for it (I think its in my humidor) and glue it back on and keep it as it is.
For the Koa, if it has to be reworked, I'll just try to sell it on the forum because I'm assuming UD won't want the extra trouble of having to rebuild it, especially when there is not a single thing wrong with it. I've barely used it - what do you guys think is a fair price for that? It is this one:
I paid $345 and I have used it less than a dozen times in the time that I've had it - 2 months come June 5. And I have waxed 'er up and buffed her out 3 times. I've probably used it a total of 5 days in the time I've had it.
eideal852
Well-Known Member
DEMS LIKE REAL DAGS THEN. My Scout is the best dog in the world... to me and mine, strangers tho? might get bit... eh, nipped? herded? something. most arent into it.Whaaaaaat?! Are y'all trying to say that me and my Dogs aren't universally loved?
vapingtortoise
Tortoise
After a day or two of playing around with the Alpha core I can say without a doubt that this is a very different device from the typical UD model. Idk what everyone's reasons for vaping are but for me the two biggest factors are probably health and tolerance. If I just use my UD I find that's the best, I can enjoy on my own and unwind but if I go out with friends or w/e having a dab/bowl/joint will still work great! Of course, I limit my combustion as much as I can. The standard nylon stem is a bit narrow so I can see why you'd prefer to have a 18mm glass piece to join it with...guess I'm gonna have to visit some local shops maybe order online 
I do feel that any UD model benefits greatly from some sort of water filtration to cool down the vapor.
I haven't busted out the scale to weigh or compare but I think at a glance the Alpha Nylon bowl takes up about 3-5x as much as the typical UD stem. Still working on a sweet spot but I find having the stem about 50-60% full(once tamped) works best at 10.8. I try to limit my bowls on the Alpha as I find it can also destroy my tolerance, lol. Before, if I just used the UD my tolerance would pretty much never get too bad since the stems were so small I think even if I extracted everything from a stem each time it would take too long to affect tolerance. Ideally I try to only have 3-5 stems off the UD and if I am using the Alpha I try for 1-3.
I have had a DaBuddha in the past and I would say the Alpha bowls compare roughly in size to those.
For anyone who is considering an Alpha(or has one) be careful as you can pretty quickly go from 'efficient' to 'efficiently ripped'. Now I'm off to finish some work and probably hit up the dispensary later...
I do feel that any UD model benefits greatly from some sort of water filtration to cool down the vapor.I haven't busted out the scale to weigh or compare but I think at a glance the Alpha Nylon bowl takes up about 3-5x as much as the typical UD stem. Still working on a sweet spot but I find having the stem about 50-60% full(once tamped) works best at 10.8. I try to limit my bowls on the Alpha as I find it can also destroy my tolerance, lol. Before, if I just used the UD my tolerance would pretty much never get too bad since the stems were so small I think even if I extracted everything from a stem each time it would take too long to affect tolerance. Ideally I try to only have 3-5 stems off the UD and if I am using the Alpha I try for 1-3.
I have had a DaBuddha in the past and I would say the Alpha bowls compare roughly in size to those.
For anyone who is considering an Alpha(or has one) be careful as you can pretty quickly go from 'efficient' to 'efficiently ripped'. Now I'm off to finish some work and probably hit up the dispensary later...
SquirrelMaster
Well-Known Member
I find the opposite with the Alpha, it's the device that keeps my tolerance in check because I can't go through material like I can with my other devices because of the necessary breaks so the core can heat back up. That's a blessing or a curse depending on how you look at it.After a day or two of playing around with the Alpha core I can say without a doubt that this is a very different device from the typical UD model. Idk what everyone's reasons for vaping are but for me the two biggest factors are probably health and tolerance. If I just use my UD I find that's the best, I can enjoy on my own and unwind but if I go out with friends or w/e having a dab/bowl/joint will still work great! Of course, I limit my combustion as much as I can. The standard nylon stem is a bit narrow so I can see why you'd prefer to have a 18mm glass piece to join it with...guess I'm gonna have to visit some local shops maybe order online
I haven't busted out the scale to weigh or compare but I think at a glance the Alpha Nylon bowl takes up about 3-5x as much as the typical UD stem. Still working on a sweet spot but I find having the stem about 50-60% full(once tamped) works best at 10.8. I try to limit my bowls on the Alpha as I find it can also destroy my tolerance, lol. Before, if I just used the UD my tolerance would pretty much never get too bad since the stems were so small I think even if I extracted everything from a stem each time it would take too long to affect tolerance. Ideally I try to only have 3-5 stems off the UD and if I am using the Alpha I try for 1-3.
I have had a DaBuddha in the past and I would say the Alpha bowls compare roughly in size to those.
For anyone who is considering an Alpha(or has one) be careful as you can pretty quickly go from 'efficient' to 'efficiently ripped'. Now I'm off to finish some work and probably hit up the dispensary later...
I've wondered how much the "twig" style of my Alpha is playing into that equation as well. I imagine a larger block would take longer to heat soak but would retain more heat energy.
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
After a day or two of playing around with the Alpha core I can say without a doubt that this is a very different device from the typical UD model. Idk what everyone's reasons for vaping are but for me the two biggest factors are probably health and tolerance. If I just use my UD I find that's the best, I can enjoy on my own and unwind but if I go out with friends or w/e having a dab/bowl/joint will still work great! Of course, I limit my combustion as much as I can. The standard nylon stem is a bit narrow so I can see why you'd prefer to have a 18mm glass piece to join it with...guess I'm gonna have to visit some local shops maybe order online
I haven't busted out the scale to weigh or compare but I think at a glance the Alpha Nylon bowl takes up about 3-5x as much as the typical UD stem. Still working on a sweet spot but I find having the stem about 50-60% full(once tamped) works best at 10.8. I try to limit my bowls on the Alpha as I find it can also destroy my tolerance, lol. Before, if I just used the UD my tolerance would pretty much never get too bad since the stems were so small I think even if I extracted everything from a stem each time it would take too long to affect tolerance. Ideally I try to only have 3-5 stems off the UD and if I am using the Alpha I try for 1-3.
I have had a DaBuddha in the past and I would say the Alpha bowls compare roughly in size to those.
For anyone who is considering an Alpha(or has one) be careful as you can pretty quickly go from 'efficient' to 'efficiently ripped'. Now I'm off to finish some work and probably hit up the dispensary later...
I'm with you on conservation of herb, LOL! I have also found a fully loaded Alpha glass direct draw stem - which has the largest bowl - is more than I need or actually want. I don't really get much higher than when I'm microdosing. Even when I don't load it heavily, just using 2 or 3 times as much in the Alpha glass stem compared to my homemade Frankenstem (glass one hitter) for maybe 20% more initial rush that quickly wears off to normal is not really my goal, LOL! (My glass one-hitter literally loads up with just crumbs, VERY conservative of my herb)
I have loaded it up more than that and I still prefer sequential microdosing. I will also add, the glass direct draw stem for the Alpha dog works better with little or no hotspotting if you use a piece of 1/2" silicone tubing (heat resistant, food safe, try brewer's supplies) as an air lock - apply it to the tip of your Alpha glass stem and then the overhang will fit over the heater core and seal the airway so you get more even draw. It's way easier than any other method I've ever used for reducing hotspotting, and for me at least (because I have next to no technique) the hotspotting in the glass Alpha stem is REALLY BAD. I find myself kind of automatically and naturally wiggling it around a little bit and that seems to prevent tunneling.
I have not been able to make my finely ground shake (its like flour) pack even in the Alpha glass stem, though perhaps someone else could. I'm shy of heavy loading so my heavy load is probably not someone else's heavy load. It does pack a little bit in my glass direct draw stem (the tip on that is a piece of 3/8" glass tubing), but less than my SC2 used to pack with larger tubing when using fine material. The airway on these newer heater cores is REALLY an improvement. By the time the airway becomes noticeably restricted, the microdose in the glass one-hitter is done anyway.
arb
Semi shaved ape
How long does it take between hits to bet back to temp?
vapingtortoise
Tortoise
Depending on what I am doing sometimes I'll absent mindedly use it(if I'm gaming with friends or really into reading something). Neither of my two UDs seem to have a heating issue even though the older unit is a twig(I think). For what it's worth I used to have an ambrosia maple UD and that one did not seem to retain heat well and was also a 'twig' style.
I find that I prefer 1 or two 'big hits' so that I can feel it and then stop. I find that with vaping once I hit the sweet spot it doesn't go much past that so I try to cut down. I was a former alcohol(about 1.5 years sober now) and I know that I'm prone to wanting 'more' so I stop before the train leaves the station, so to speak. The alpha does indeed have more hot-spotting than the normal UD but I think for myself it comes down to the fact that the material is packed much taller so there's less area for heat to spread over and also the nylon stem I'm currently using seems to barely cover the stem. I'm sure if I used a NtoG 18mm adapter this would help reduce the channeling of the hot air.
Idk, I haven't had a problem with the alpha myself. I know you were asking @SquirrelMaster but I figured I'd throw my 2 cents in. I'm going to be bringing it to show some friends this weekend as I'm trying to convert them into vaping lol. I would definitely say the UD is not for everyone
just something I’ve found to reduce / eliminate almost completely for me this, I lowered the temp and slowed my draw
as for my alphas recharge rate I haven’t even noticed as much as a temperature sag, but maybe I’m just not hitting it as frequently/long?
I finish a stem in one sitting, basically as fast back to back hits as I can handle. Or at the very longest, texting / scrolling FC between hits.
A full stem smacks me pretty good and I don’t need to do another one for a good bit... never timed it but minimum 30 minutes if I were to guess?
I’d need help to test out 2-3 full stems back to back to back
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
I might be able to perform the test, but reporting on it later could be a problem ...
Buildozer
Baked & Fried
This is pretty much how I use my Alpha most all of the time. I only use it with the large NonG.
Bigger loads, lower temps, slower draw to prime the load, then I pick up draw speed just enough to keep it in check. I make sure to stir well and make sure the herb is broken down evenly in the process, and ultimately I end up with very even and fully vaped AVB. All that's needed to have good results is experimenting a bit to find the perfect combination of draw-speed, voltage(temperature), and load-size (/screen placement) for you; basic analogue vape stuff. I personally prefer the Alpha to my other UD's most of the time.
The Alpha definitely has a finer line than the other UD's, and from what I've seen this vape can be too touchy for the less intuitive/experienced vaporists to manage, and if you were going to pick one I'd recommend the SC3(+) over the Alpha to anyone who isn't up for the task of experimenting a little bit more to dial in their experience; but once it's dialed in and consistent, you're good to go, and can expect consistent results. I wouldn't go making comparisons to any TC E-nail Coil vapes, but similarly, the Alpha definitely hits way bigger than is even necessary IMO.
SquirrelMaster
Well-Known Member
Ideally I'm waiting at least a few minutes between hits to keep the core really heat soaked so I can cash very small loads in 2 hits (always needs a stir). If I'm waiting 30+ seconds between hits I can finish a multi-hit bowl but then I need to leave the Alpha for a while to heat soak again. I'd have to pull out the scale but the latter would be 0.1-0.15g roughly.
Stem choice makes a big difference in the recharge time; my glass stems, being wide open, are hardest to use since they don't have the same conduction effects as the stainless steel tipped nylon stems, they fit more material (which can be deceiving), and they are so wide open it can be easy to let my breath get away from me and then I drain the core faster. Having some restriction is a must whether it's a smaller diameter stem or something inside the stem like hemp fiber or glass balls.
The Alpha is a great micro doser and although I don't own a more conventional log vape I have a good guess as to how they would preform which is that they would recover quicker but not be able to store the same amount of heat to release in the first place for the same hard hitting effects.
So the Alpha needs a stir mid-sesh to avoid hot spots and get even AVB?
To be fair, even with my normal UD (and also my woodscents for that matter) I like to take a big hit, then dump the bowl out into a lil dish, mix it up, suck it back into the bowl, then give it a finishing hit. But then I'm also weirdly obsessed with having super even avb, I hate chucking out green stuff.
I never have to stir my WS nor should I with such a small bowl, my ABV is always even, I would say you are packing your WS tighter than I would like if you are not getting even abv without stirring.
Buildozer
Baked & Fried
These are analogue convection vapes, and I think many of you are focusing too much on "hot spots" when you should be focusing more on ending up with even AVB. If you aren't charring, then hotspots are a non-issue IMO. Stirring and breaking the herb down evenly in the process is very important if you ultimately want evenly extracted AVB. If you are trying to use these vapes(especially for bigger rips and higher temps) and not stir frequently, like after every hit, or every time you see a hot spot, then you aren't doing yourself any favors IMO. Convection vapes typically all need stirring for best results, unless there's enough conduction/radiation involved and or the load is small enough. Having to stir isn't a bad thing, and inherent to most all truer convection vapes IME.
@LesPlenty, If you don't need to stir, I'd imagine that's thanks to more conduction/radiation at play from the way you go about it? I don't have a WS, but if I did, and I was experiencing the same thing as you, I bet I could give a more accurate explanation. I do have a VapCap though, and they don't hold the largest loads, and the tip is metal and thick enough that it can add that conduction to the load if it's been heated up enough, and IIRC the WS has a pretty thick core, so in my mind it's adding up.
I can load approximately 3x the normal load of a SC3(+) UD GonG in my large Alpha NonG. It's just ridiculous to expect to not have to stir, or to only have to stir once. The Alpha just isn't a vape for people who can't be bothered to properly wield it, and I really don't find it that hard to wield. I'm not trying to condescend, that's just what it is, it's touchier, but IMO rewarding.
@LesPlenty, If you don't need to stir, I'd imagine that's thanks to more conduction/radiation at play from the way you go about it? I don't have a WS, but if I did, and I was experiencing the same thing as you, I bet I could give a more accurate explanation. I do have a VapCap though, and they don't hold the largest loads, and the tip is metal and thick enough that it can add that conduction to the load if it's been heated up enough, and IIRC the WS has a pretty thick core, so in my mind it's adding up.
I can load approximately 3x the normal load of a SC3(+) UD GonG in my large Alpha NonG. It's just ridiculous to expect to not have to stir, or to only have to stir once. The Alpha just isn't a vape for people who can't be bothered to properly wield it, and I really don't find it that hard to wield. I'm not trying to condescend, that's just what it is, it's touchier, but IMO rewarding.
CurryLeafTreehugger
Well-Known Member
See I don't get that impression at all - that the Alpha is "touchier" or harder to use than regular UDs. I came to the Alpha via an SC2, and the improved airway alone is a huge leap forward over older UD cores.
Keeping in mind I exclusively use glass stems and have since day 1, over 6 years ago now. I did try the other stems back then and it is glass all the way for me. I was so glad to finally manage a glass one-hitter - something I tried to find way back when the Alpha was first introduced (and couldn't). I can't see what is happening with the basket or whether or not the stem needs to be cleaned yet in non-glass stems, and I like the vape through glass way better. YMMV.
As for stirring, with the new SC3/+/Alpha, and as long as I am using a piece of silicone tubing to seal the stem around the core - I only need to do that with large deep loads, which I typically don't use anyway, for any size of stem. Without an air lock on the 1/2" glass stem ("regular" size) or the 3/4" glass stem (ALpha), I get hotspotting which is particularly exaggerated with the Alpha glass direct draw stem. Stirring is often used to break up hotspots and move less vaped material to the center of the stem where heat is highest. Using a piece of silicone tubing to make a seal around the heater core entirely eliminates that feeling of breathlessness that SquirrelMaster refers to. The issue is that glass tubing is not made to mate with heater cores, if you get close with off-the-shelf stuff that's the best you can hope for. And the glass direct draw stem for the Alpha is just that little bit too loose around the core for optimum draw. At least at my level of dexterity or whatever is required here LOL! The silicone tip air lock makes this a purely mechanical, easily replicated process.
With my smallest diameter stem - the glass one-hitter aka "Frankenstem" - I don't see hotspotting per se but I still use an airlock at the tip - it just FEELS like a better draw. The advantages of the airlock are much more obvious the larger the diameter of the stem (remembering ALL of mine are glass so there is no conduction to speak of). Since custom-making glass tubing to mate effectively with the heater core is prohibitively expensive, an airlock at the tip makes up for the fact that no off-the-shelf glass stem is likely to mate perfectly with an off-the-shelf heater core.
It would be nice to be able to think of myself as somehow particularly accomplished in my use of the UD, as an "intuitive/experienced vaporist", but that doesn't ring true for me and my melty brain, much as I would like to think differently. I'm not sure the Alpha is EASIER to use than the SC3/+ cores, but it is certainly no harder, for me at any rate, with the help of a few inches of silicone tubing. And btw the airlock has the same effect used with the SC3/+ that it has when used with the Alpha, that's not just an Alpha thing. I didn't try it with my SC2, but I'm pretty sure the reduced airway on that would not likely support use of a silicone airlock, eg it would restrict the draw enough on top of the already more restricted draw on the older cores to be pretty much useless.
The reason people keep talking about hotspotting is that it happens a lot with larger stems. And that is NOT a separate issue from even ABV - you can't have even ABV when you've got hotspotting. The more disparity there is between the heater core OD and the stem ID (for glass as that is all I ever use), the worse the hotspotting will be - that is just physics. (Of course, with the Frankenstem, that is stem OD and heater core ID because it fits INSIDE the Alpha core. It will also fit on top of the SC3/+ core with the help of an airlock, otherwise you can't use it with the smaller cores at all, similarly I can use the "regular" UD glass stem on top of the Alpha core)
I'm sure most UD users (not me, but most) DO become accomplished at avoiding or reducing this with "technique", but for me - way easier and more reliable to just stick a couple of inches of silicone tubing on there so whatever stem I am using will seal around the core.
Maybe its "cheating", but that's the way I like it.
I still stir, mostly just the once - because my flour-like shake that required me to switch to finer screens sometimes tends to crust over during the first draw. Breaking it up makes it easier to hit it a second time. I occasionally hit it a third time though there is virtually nothing left by then (with the glass one-hitter it is fully extracted on the first draw but I still stir once and draw once more just to be sure). I haven't found using ground bud much different except for the crusting over issue, which doesn't happen with herb I grind myself, just the flour-shake. But I don't need to stir anymore to ameliorate the effects of hotspotting as long as I am using a silicone seal around the core. Honestly, I'm still stirring mostly out of habit at this point, or if I've loaded the stem more deeply than intended.
Keeping in mind I exclusively use glass stems and have since day 1, over 6 years ago now. I did try the other stems back then and it is glass all the way for me. I was so glad to finally manage a glass one-hitter - something I tried to find way back when the Alpha was first introduced (and couldn't). I can't see what is happening with the basket or whether or not the stem needs to be cleaned yet in non-glass stems, and I like the vape through glass way better. YMMV.
As for stirring, with the new SC3/+/Alpha, and as long as I am using a piece of silicone tubing to seal the stem around the core - I only need to do that with large deep loads, which I typically don't use anyway, for any size of stem. Without an air lock on the 1/2" glass stem ("regular" size) or the 3/4" glass stem (ALpha), I get hotspotting which is particularly exaggerated with the Alpha glass direct draw stem. Stirring is often used to break up hotspots and move less vaped material to the center of the stem where heat is highest. Using a piece of silicone tubing to make a seal around the heater core entirely eliminates that feeling of breathlessness that SquirrelMaster refers to. The issue is that glass tubing is not made to mate with heater cores, if you get close with off-the-shelf stuff that's the best you can hope for. And the glass direct draw stem for the Alpha is just that little bit too loose around the core for optimum draw. At least at my level of dexterity or whatever is required here LOL! The silicone tip air lock makes this a purely mechanical, easily replicated process.
With my smallest diameter stem - the glass one-hitter aka "Frankenstem" - I don't see hotspotting per se but I still use an airlock at the tip - it just FEELS like a better draw. The advantages of the airlock are much more obvious the larger the diameter of the stem (remembering ALL of mine are glass so there is no conduction to speak of). Since custom-making glass tubing to mate effectively with the heater core is prohibitively expensive, an airlock at the tip makes up for the fact that no off-the-shelf glass stem is likely to mate perfectly with an off-the-shelf heater core.
It would be nice to be able to think of myself as somehow particularly accomplished in my use of the UD, as an "intuitive/experienced vaporist", but that doesn't ring true for me and my melty brain, much as I would like to think differently. I'm not sure the Alpha is EASIER to use than the SC3/+ cores, but it is certainly no harder, for me at any rate, with the help of a few inches of silicone tubing. And btw the airlock has the same effect used with the SC3/+ that it has when used with the Alpha, that's not just an Alpha thing. I didn't try it with my SC2, but I'm pretty sure the reduced airway on that would not likely support use of a silicone airlock, eg it would restrict the draw enough on top of the already more restricted draw on the older cores to be pretty much useless.
The reason people keep talking about hotspotting is that it happens a lot with larger stems. And that is NOT a separate issue from even ABV - you can't have even ABV when you've got hotspotting. The more disparity there is between the heater core OD and the stem ID (for glass as that is all I ever use), the worse the hotspotting will be - that is just physics. (Of course, with the Frankenstem, that is stem OD and heater core ID because it fits INSIDE the Alpha core. It will also fit on top of the SC3/+ core with the help of an airlock, otherwise you can't use it with the smaller cores at all, similarly I can use the "regular" UD glass stem on top of the Alpha core)
I'm sure most UD users (not me, but most) DO become accomplished at avoiding or reducing this with "technique", but for me - way easier and more reliable to just stick a couple of inches of silicone tubing on there so whatever stem I am using will seal around the core.
Maybe its "cheating", but that's the way I like it.
I still stir, mostly just the once - because my flour-like shake that required me to switch to finer screens sometimes tends to crust over during the first draw. Breaking it up makes it easier to hit it a second time. I occasionally hit it a third time though there is virtually nothing left by then (with the glass one-hitter it is fully extracted on the first draw but I still stir once and draw once more just to be sure). I haven't found using ground bud much different except for the crusting over issue, which doesn't happen with herb I grind myself, just the flour-shake. But I don't need to stir anymore to ameliorate the effects of hotspotting as long as I am using a silicone seal around the core. Honestly, I'm still stirring mostly out of habit at this point, or if I've loaded the stem more deeply than intended.
arb
Semi shaved ape
I hit it,stir it,hit it and dump.
Gong and Nong both work exactly the same.
I get zero scorching or hotspotting and my abv looks the same as a volcano for reference.
Stepping back and reading this I would think there's a big variation in how the units work.
But having 5 of them and the 3 production cores all work almost identically......within .02 of a volt.
My guess is if you have used a log and liked it but thought.........more would be nicer the Alpha is for you.
If you're hanging multiple logs on a piece to get a good hit the alphas for you.
Every one else should prolly just keep looking elsewhere.
Gong and Nong both work exactly the same.
I get zero scorching or hotspotting and my abv looks the same as a volcano for reference.
Stepping back and reading this I would think there's a big variation in how the units work.
But having 5 of them and the 3 production cores all work almost identically......within .02 of a volt.
My guess is if you have used a log and liked it but thought.........more would be nicer the Alpha is for you.
If you're hanging multiple logs on a piece to get a good hit the alphas for you.
Every one else should prolly just keep looking elsewhere.