TinyMight / TM 2

[Shit Snacks]

Sorry, Siebter is right about lithium batteries. Whatever charge level it had when delivered will either work, or the chip in the TM will show empty at 3.2 volts, and time to charge. 3.0 volts is also ok, as most lithium batteries spec sheets are using a 2.5 volt cutoff when charging, they can get the biggest mAh capacity rating discharging to 2.5 volts. And of course the charging rate is always 4.2 volts for most 18650 lithium’s.

I don't mean to make up your mind, I'm trying to counter false info with facts here within the forum. Different cells behave very differently according to their chemistry, and there's a lot of stuff getting mixed up between different cell types when it comes to how to preserve their health. Do some research (I think I linked some info about Li Ions for you recently, didn't I?) and you will see that it is actually not an issue to use a brand new Li Ion right away.

Below is my quick research, I think it is you that are sharing the false info, but to be fair I don't feel like diving any deeper into this!

Anyone who reads here can choose for themselves how they want to treat their own batteries... I will never use a brand new cell before charging it though, personally!

 

[Siebter]

@Shit Snacks – Hm, it doesn't take very much to make up your mind – when you are able to get a bit of mental distance to this discussion, maybe look into more knowledgeable sources like this → How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Below is my quick research, I think it is you that are sharing the false info, but to be fair I don't feel like diving any deeper into this!

Anyone who reads here can choose for themselves how they want to treat their own batteries... I will never use a brand new cell before charging it though, personally!

Well, I couldn’t load that article, I’ll try a google search, but for reliable information on any battery, in my sig:

Battery University Homepage

Battery University™ is a free educational website offering hands-on battery information.

batteryuniversity.com

 

[Shit Snacks]

@Shit Snacks – Hm, it doesn't take very much to make up your mind – when you are able to get a bit of mental distance to this discussion, maybe look into more knowledgeable sources like this → How to Prolong Lithium-based Batteries.

All right well that source has a ton of crap to sift through to answer the question at hand, but I did find these two points there, which seem to support exactly what I said...

Nothing I could see skimming there referenced 18650 unprotected cells like the ones we are talking about here specifically, but if you're saying they (Sony VTC6) are li-ion polymer, then yeah I was right and thank you for proving it even further!

 

[RustyOldNail]

All right well that source has a ton of crap to sift through to answer the question at hand, but I did find these two points there, which seem to support exactly what I said...

Nothing I could see skimming there referenced 18650 unprotected cells like the ones we are talking about here specifically, but if you're saying they (Sony VTC6) are li-ion polymer, then yeah I was right and thank you for proving it even further!

I’m actually surprised an experienced member like you has not spent more time learning about the batteries I’m assuming you use. The Sony VTC6 is NOT a LIPO lithium, but INR, not there are a few 3 letter codes that manufacturers use, but I’ll try to find the article I just read on how those designations are commonly misused. But the fact remains most 18650’s are not LIPO chemistry. You can believe what you like, but 18650 lithium battery technologies as of today, are based on science, not internet user speculation/posts.

Now when you might read in an instruction manual, “CHARGE YOUR DEVICE BEFORE USING”, is not the science part, but is based on user experience and expectations with their new device, it eliminates a possible problem before it happens. If a person is not seeing an expected result, if the battery starts out with a full charge, then the battery is not the issue, so that’s smart for the company to publish, but is unrelated to battery science.

SAFETY:
Just don’t drain them below 2.5 volts, which is not an issue with a “regulated” device as the device will usually have a low voltage cutoff set to 3.0-3.3 volts, charging, internally the device will cutoff the charge at 4.2 volts, same with external chargers. The danger is using unregulated devices like ECig mods that have no electronic and BMS (battery management system), called “MECH MODS” and draining too far, like the button was on in a pocket, and that’s when you have the potential for a lithium problem, or pipe bomb....

Here is the data sheet for the Murata VTC6 (formally Sony)

https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/sony_us18650vtc6-2.pdf

 

[Shit Snacks]

I’m actually surprised an experienced member like you has not spent more time learning about the batteries I’m assuming you use. The Sony VTC6 is NOT a LIPO lithium, but INR, not there are a few 3 letter codes that manufacturers use, but I’ll try to find the article I just read on how those designations are commonly misused. But the fact remains most 18650’s are not LIPO chemistry. You can believe what you like, but 18650 lithium battery technologies as of today, are based on science, not internet user speculation/posts.

I'm not the one who brought up Li ion Po or whatever the hell it is! Siebter was talking about those, as if that's what the Sony VTC6 was, since that's what we were talking about, and he linked the same website as you, where I found the image I posted that covered what we were discussing, buried in a whole lot of other stuff without mention of 18650 batteries that I could see...

Now when you might read in an instruction manual, “CHARGE YOUR DEVICE BEFORE USING”, is not the science part, but is based on user experience and expectations with their new device, it eliminates a possible problem before it happens. If a person is not seeing an expected result, if the battery starts out with a full charge, then the battery is not the issue, so that’s smart for the company to publish, but is unrelated to battery science.

That's not where I am reading it, I'm not even talking about a device with a fixed battery, it doesn't matter how you charge it, I'm saying when a brand new battery, like an 18650 cell you buy from a place like IMR, like the one that comes with the TM, arrives it is without a useable charge. And using it without a charge is not good for it, especially if you try more than once, several times!

SAFETY:
Just don’t drain them below 2.5 volts, which is not an issue with a “regulated” device as the device will usually have a low voltage cutoff set to 3.0-3.3 volts, charging, internally the device will cutoff the charge at 4.2 volts, same with external chargers. The danger is using unregulated devices like ECig mods that have no electronic and BMS (battery management system), called “MECH MODS” and draining too far, like the button was on in a pocket, and that’s when you have the potential for a lithium problem, or pipe bomb....

Yeah I know all about this, the not dis charging them too much and other stuff, from beta testing the RBT vapes (Zion and Milaana) which was my first real experience with these type of cells, when I learned more beyond thermovape 13650s...

Here is the data sheet for the Murata VTC6 (formally Sony)

https://www.imrbatteries.com/content/sony_us18650vtc6-2.pdf

Great more crap to "read" and come away with nothing! If that's your thing, more power to you... Reputable sources are important, but the necessity of knowing them varies, as I trust my own initial source in this case... I did read through that sheet, it did say nothing about instructions for the initial charge or how the battery arrives brand new, it had a whole lot of other stuff that was tough to get through though!

I appreciate being regarded as an experienced member here, but I have learned plenty about batteries based on my time here, this one rule I'm talking about is a pretty basic thing that should not require extensive research... I know how to treat my batteries for safety and best performance, it didn't require hours of reading these long-winded tests and data sheets!

 

[RustyOldNail]

You’re welcome!

 

[Shit Snacks]

You’re welcome!

Haha I love this response to my rant! btw I edited my replies above a few times, but I think I'm finally done now! and thanks for sharing another side here, I don't mean to say, that you don't know what you are talking about or anything, I just want to share my own views too... I'd apologize for cluttering this thread, but anyone who follows it will understand why I won't bother!

 

[RustyOldNail]

Sharing views is one thing. BUT, saying “And using it without a charge is not good for it”, is NOT CORRECT in regards to a VTC6 or most other lithium 18650 common battery formulations. That statement alone is super unspecific as well.

I took my time as battery safety is kinda a thing with me, to write a post with links and information, I can now see I’m wasting my time. So search as you may, you will not find any real proof of that statement, it’s that simple.

I’m done, vape on......

 

[Shit Snacks]

Sharing views is one thing. BUT, saying “And using it without a charge is not good for it”, is NOT CORRECT in regards to a VTC6 or most other lithium 18650 common battery formulations. That statement alone is super unspecific as well.

I took my time as battery safety is kinda a thing with me, to write a post with links and information, I can now see I’m wasting my time. So search as you may, you will not find any real proof of that statement, it’s that simple.

I’m done, vape on......

Yeah, sorry, again this does not really relate to safety per se, but to be specific, this user made several attempts using a brand new battery never charged and is now experiencing poor battery life... Their technique could be the predominant cause of this, but I think given how they treated that brand new battery it is not unreasonable to suggest its longevity and performance were affected... Just like they would be affected naturally over the course of normal use, I think this form of use could have affected them sooner however? Maybe if they buy two new Sony VTC6 with an external charger and charge them up fully before first use, and then compare after a while of using, several charge discharge cycles, then that could reveal something or other? Still not very scientific, but very specific? Eh we both should have stopped a while ago, but whatever this just became a sort of distraction for me today, sorry if I wasted your time too! I probably seem like a stubborn fool to others reading this now lol

 

[AK47 AMI]

If you think the draw is tight, and you have not cleaned your cooling unit yet, then I assure you it is clogged with oils! If you boil it in some whole chocolate milk, before doing iso alcohol and hot water, you could probably get really ripped!

Otherwise try looking into the alternative WPA options and glass pieces like the j hook... But yeah 10 seconds is not a very long draw, although you should be able to get a hit in a little less than that?



I don't think it is his first??

Also he had already mentioned how he tried to use it several times before charging the battery when it arrived so I think that hurt the overall battery performance and longevity life cycle...

Thanks @Shit Snacks @Siebter yes I think it's difficult to take a draw, well more difficult then what ive been hearing and reading lol, interesting... I have whole milk but not chocolate, can I boil the CU in that? Should get rid of oils. And I do have iso propyl alcohol which I bought a huge bottle of, so put a bit of that in warm water? And then stick it in? Or how about take CU out complete and try that? I will try start on a higher temp maybe 5 and take a few hits at that rather than temp stepping and hopefully won't need many draws I will buy a charger too and another battery so will always have one...do you guys think you lose performance if the battery drops from 4 to 3 vibrations? Once these prescription steroids are out of my system then I might be able to take a longer draw! But at the mo I'm struggling

 

[RustyOldNail]

Yeah, sorry, again this does not really relate to safety per se, but to be specific, this user made several attempts using a brand new battery never charged and is now experiencing poor battery life... Their technique could be the predominant cause of this, but I think given how they treated that brand new battery it is not unreasonable to suggest its longevity and performance were affected... Just like they would be affected naturally over the course of normal use, I think this form of use could have affected them sooner however? Maybe if they buy two new Sony VTC6 with an external charger and charge them up fully before first use, and then compare after a while of using, several charge discharge cycles, then that could reveal something or other? Still not very scientific, but very specific? Eh we both should have stopped a while ago, but whatever this just became a sort of distraction for me today, sorry if I wasted your time too! I probably seem like a stubborn fool to others reading this now lol

Reasonable response, and getting back to the OP’s issue. Indeed, even a basic DC voltage meter would give any battery user at least some USEFUL information on the current state of the battery, but there is little to no chance of the battery being degraded by using it till the device shuts off and charging it hundreds of times. And yes, a good lithium charger is important as well. I used a simple Xtar VP2 for years, until recently buying a hobby type charger with more geeky charging options. Now, it’s always possible to get a bad battery, but that’s rare.

 

[AK47 AMI]

Yeah, sorry, again this does not really relate to safety per se, but to be specific, this user made several attempts using a brand new battery never charged and is now experiencing poor battery life... Their technique could be the predominant cause of this, but I think given how they treated that brand new battery it is not unreasonable to suggest its longevity and performance were affected... Just like they would be affected naturally over the course of normal use, I think this form of use could have affected them sooner however? Maybe if they buy two new Sony VTC6 with an external charger and charge them up fully before first use, and then compare after a while of using, several charge discharge cycles, then that could reveal something or other? Still not very scientific, but very specific? Eh we both should have stopped a while ago, but whatever this just became a sort of distraction for me today, sorry if I wasted your time too! I probably seem like a stubborn fool to others reading this now lol

Guys just been reading the posts about the batteries. I know I'm a newbie to all this but I do know that my battery does seem to go down fast and this seems to impact on the performance, this may well be because I tried using it when first got and then wondered why it kept going off! So may well have damaged the battery. I think I will get the external charger and a spare 2 batteries and do what Shit Snacks is saying and then I'll know if it works better etc

 

[Shit Snacks]

interesting... I have whole milk but not chocolate, can I boil the CU in that? Should get rid of oils. And I do have iso propyl alcohol which I bought a huge bottle of, so put a bit of that in warm water? And then stick it in? Or how about take CU out complete and try that?

Yeah the whole milk alone is fine, the chocolate was for the taste! You just want enough fat for the THC to bond to. I would take apart the cooling unit out of the glass, put it in the glass altogether and maybe a little mesh strainer, dip that into the boiling whole milk (it comes to boil very suddenly, so you have to watch it and then turn it right down to simmer, then dip the vape parts in)

Then I would rinse and put it in the iso alcohol to soak a bit more, then rinse again with the hot water to fully clean!

I will try start on a higher temp maybe 5 and take a few hits at that rather than temp stepping and hopefully won't need many draws

I think temp stepping is fine, just only take one hit at each step, especially if you are doing small steps? Honestly there are so many variables!

I will buy a charger too and another battery so will always have one...do you guys think you lose performance if the battery drops from 4 to 3 vibrations?

It should not affect your performance, and the battery should not die on you until 2 or 1 vibrations, but it depends on the battery itself too... I'm hoping when you get a new battery and charge it up fully before first use, that you will see overall better battery life but it could end up the same who knows lol

Maybe try setting it to 5.5, and taking shorter hits? Little hits

 

[AK47 AMI]

Yeah, sorry, again this does not really relate to safety per se, but to be specific, this user made several attempts using a brand new battery never charged and is now experiencing poor battery life... Their technique could be the predominant cause of this, but I think given how they treated that brand new battery it is not unreasonable to suggest its longevity and performance were affected... Just like they would be affected naturally over the course of normal use, I think this form of use could have affected them sooner however? Maybe if they buy two new Sony VTC6 with an external charger and charge them up fully before first use, and then compare after a while of using, several charge discharge cycles, then that could reveal something or other? Still not very scientific, but very specific? Eh we both should have stopped a while ago, but whatever this just became a sort of distraction for me today, sorry if I wasted your time too! I probably seem like a stubborn fool to others reading this now lol

Guys just been reading the posts about the batteries. I know I'm a newbie to all this but I do know that my battery does seem to go down fast and this seems to impact on the performance, this may well be because I tried using it when first got and then wondered why it kept going off! So may well have damaged the battery. I think I will get the external charger and a spare 2 batteries and do what Shit Snacks is saying and then I'll know if it works better etc, which is the best external charger and spare vct batteries to get please and best place to buy, in UK if possible?

 

[AK47 AMI]

Yeah the whole milk alone is fine, the chocolate was for the taste! You just want enough fat for the THC to bond to. I would take apart the cooling unit out of the glass, put it in the glass altogether and maybe a little mesh strainer, dip that into the boiling whole milk (it comes to boil very suddenly, so you have to watch it and then turn it right down to simmer, then dip the vape parts in)

Then I would rinse and put it in the iso alcohol to soak a bit more, then rinse again with the hot water to fully clean!



I think temp stepping is fine, just only take one hit at each step, especially if you are doing small steps? Honestly there are so many variables!



It should not affect your performance, and the battery should not die on you until 2 or 1 vibrations, but it depends on the battery itself too... I'm hoping when you get a new battery and charge it up fully before first use, that you will see overall better battery life but it could end up the same who knows lol

Maybe try setting it to 5.5, and taking shorter hits? Little hits

Lmao I don't get it, chocolate for the taste? I'm not going to drink it after? Or do you mean boil it in there and then can drink it once the THC has mixed with it etc?? So anyway, take the cu out, wait till milk has come to a boil and then turn to simmer and then dip it in and leave, is that what you mean mate? How long is best to leave in there please? Then take out and leave in pure iso propyl alcohol for how long too? And then rinse with hot water, or boiling to clean? Then how's best to dry it?

Yes, had it on 5.5 tonight seemed to work first, but didn't last long then I was taking draws and not much cloud. Increased to 6-6.5 and was hit and miss a bit? Think I'm gonna give it a clean out and take battery out and clean connectors as feel as if should be giving cloud all the time really? But it's hit and miss and annoying when you I take a long draw and then.not much comes out!

 

[Shit Snacks]

Lmao I don't get it, chocolate for the taste? I'm not going to drink it after? Or do you mean boil it in there and then can drink it once the THC has mixed with it etc?? So anyway, take the cu out, wait till milk has come to a boil and then turn to simmer and then dip it in and leave, is that what you mean mate? How long is best to leave in there please? Then take out and leave in pure iso propyl alcohol for how long too? And then rinse with hot water, or boiling to clean? Then how's best to dry it?

Oh hahahaha yeah I'm saying the milk is literally just so you can drink it as an edible instead of wasting it! if you have a lot of oil built up in there... The milk does not help with the cleaning, if anything it makes it dirtier, which is why I say make sure to rinse it right after and then do the iso alcohol...

Don't let it sit in the milk, it will boil off the oil into the milk quickly, so like if you had a mesh thing you could just dip it a bit and you'll see the oil wash right off into the milk...

Then yeah with most of the oil in the milk it will be quicker to clean with the iso alcohol, you can put it in a little bag and shake it all together, for the glass you need to be careful though don't do that with other things keep it on its own safer... if you want to just clean it then just use the alcohol and you can soak it a bit too.

Yes, had it on 5.5 tonight seemed to work first, but didn't last long then I was taking draws and not much cloud. Increased to 6-6.5 and was hit and miss a bit? Think I'm gonna give it a clean out and take battery out and clean connectors as feel as if should be giving cloud all the time really? But it's hit and miss and annoying when you I take a long draw and then.not much comes out!

Yeah so how many hits were you trying to take at 5.5? I wouldn't try to take more than two hits at one setting personally, because the TM extracts so well... You should be able to get a good hit when you increase to 6 or 6.5, maybe a a decent second hit there, but yeah like I said I only take one hit at each setting typically...

I don't know about cleaning the connectors, it doesn't sound like it should be necessary really, certainly not yet, but honestly it's possible mine could benefit from that as well, I don't really want to take things apart etc... Because really if you are getting some good hits, that means the battery contacts are probably fine?? I don't know

 

[Siebter]

I'm not the one who brought up Li ion Po or whatever the hell it is! Siebter was talking about those [...]

No, I was referring to Li Ion cells (like the VTC6 used in the Tinymight), then you quoted best practice scenarios for LiPos (totally different type of cell, not used in the Tinymight). Thank you for reading more carefully in the future.

 

[RustyOldNail]

Guys just been reading the posts about the batteries. I know I'm a newbie to all this but I do know that my battery does seem to go down fast and this seems to impact on the performance, this may well be because I tried using it when first got and then wondered why it kept going off! So may well have damaged the battery. I think I will get the external charger and a spare 2 batteries and do what Shit Snacks is saying and then I'll know if it works better etc

Charge your battery right in the TM, when you first turn on the TM, it will vibrate quickly, from 1 to 4 times, 4 meaning full charge. Perhaps you are expecting too much run time. If you post approximately how long and how many bowls you vape, other users can give you an idea of approximate run times. I doubt there is any issues with your VTC6, they are very good batteries.

 

[Shit Snacks]

No, I was referring to Li Ion cells (like the VTC6 used in the Tinymight), then you quoted best practice scenarios for LiPos (totally different type of cell, not used in the Tinymight). Thank you for reading more carefully in the future.

Yeah I miss remembered, sorry, but there was nothing about what we were discussing that I could find in the links you shared, I really tried to read them and see, I swear!

Charge your battery right in the TM, when you first turn on the TM, it will vibrate quickly, from 1 to 4 times, 4 meaning full charge. Perhaps you are expecting too much run time. If you post approximately how long and how many bowls you vape, other users can give you an idea of approximate run times. I doubt there is any issues with your VTC6, they are very good batteries.

They did already mention, that they were only getting like two bowls, but yeah usage is still the most likely explanation... Spare batts and external charger are still a good idea though and we'll see what it reveals!

Sorry guys, I'll shut up now!

 

[Tweakz]

@AK47 AMI , -
have you tried going on 7 or higher ? your draw is about 10 seconds?

for example, I used to move on 10 mode and my draw took about 20-25 seconds to achieve a suitable result.

now I have raised the temperature and only move by 6 and my draw is about 15-20 seconds. abv is evenly very dark brown almost black without burning . perhaps combust if overpack and press the material hard

everything has been working perfectly for 11 months now. Sometimes I clean the contacts on the batteries, but not often.

I ordered a 2nd TM for backup. this is my really favorite device

 

[SixStringToker]

All this battery banter brings back good (not) memories from the R/C forums.

So I have my TM nicely dialed in now. I'm using a titanium pipe screen as a diffuser between the stock screen and the stem as well as a deep vapexhale basket in the stem (with the rim and some length removed). With a "normal" session of 3 to 5 hits (after a few short puffs to heat saturate the herb), my no stir abv is very even all the way through. Even with a lung-buster pull I'm hard-pressed to get hot spots, though the herb closest to the coil will always be darker than the herb that's further away:



I poured that out in a line to show how the ABV fared through the depth of the basket. The herb on the left side was closest to the oven.

The basket was cut to about 14mm deep and the bottom of it is ~20mm into the stem. I load the stem by pouring in loose herb to the rim of the stem and then lightly tamp it down 5 or 6mm so that it's flush with the top of the basket. It's not much of a tamp, but it gives good results and is easily repeatable.

Here are the two 15(ish) second hits (along with a few short ones to pre-heat the herb) that gave the ABV pictured above:

That was 0.25g of Gorilla Glue ground with the extra fine screen in the Flower Mill. The Tinymight was set to 7.5.

 

[m0sh]

So........I got a little something

Here is my review for the dosing capsules.

The dosing capsules are fairly small and fit the TM perfectly.
Not sure why people said they won't come out, if you put it like this, it falls - if you put the lid the other way around, it might get stuck, but using like shown in the picture is good.

Its not the most convenient way to load a bowl, but you should do it in batches.
Its really nice to pack a few and put the capsules even in your pocket, its that small and pretty stealthy I'd say.
I did not measure the amount you can pack inside 1 capsule, but I reckon its about .1g to maybe .12g.
I suggest you pack it nice and tight to get best results, there's not a lot of space anyway...

The performance is as good as using it without, though I must admit that I barely use it dry, mainly because I can't get huge clouds like with water, so I didn't recognize a huge difference between using the capsule and without, except when you use the capsule the AVB is much more balanced, and I like that...
I don't think you need to stir, I was able to get like 4-5 clicks on temp6, it might make it a little bit cooler because I never thought I'll make it alive on temp 6 without coughing

So when out and about, switching it so easy and low key, this is the perfect solution to make this vape full on stealth mode.


Overall, I recommend getting the dosing capsules!

 

[AK47 AMI]

@Shit Snacks I think it was mentioned that you can use a poker or a steel rid to push the CU out if the short stem for cleaning? Do I need to unscrew the CU first to remove it or just push down hard as it's just not budging! What is best way to clean the mesh screen where the herb sits too please?? I don't want to break the short stem either! I'm just having one bowl a night tbh mate and find that it drops after 1 approx 20 sesh, I see I may be trying take too many hits out of a bowl, get a few at 5 and 5.5 and 6, 6.5, don't really go higher as can be harsh which can't be great? 10-12 draws altogether out of a bowl? @Tweakz i find that if I go above 7 it's a bit harsh and that's when coughing starts as I'm doing it without water, my herb is never black though just a faint brown, should I be going higher with it?

 

[androponic]

@Shit Snacks I think it was mentioned that you can use a poker or a steel rid to push the CU out if the short stem for cleaning? Do I need to unscrew the CU first to remove it or just push down hard as it's just not budging! I don't want to break the short stem either!

it will slide, try running some warm water over the outside of the stem and it will slide free.