The Toad from Morwood

[Duba]

You can sign me up too! it looks more affordable than the Nomad (beautiful work but out of budget for me)
It's a great idea and conception!

 

[Zuhdj]

@gordontreeman

I have experimented with this. I found that when the wood expands and contracts with the seasons it can sometimes crack the glass in the process. Obviously this doesn't happen all the time, and if you use an adhesive with some flexibility it can help for sure.... but the slim chance that it could happen.... and that you'd never know... and that you could possibly have glass shards just waiting to be dislodged inside of the stem... well that's just a huge no for me, hahaha. It would also make the entire thing much more fragile, I think a drop could crack the glass as well.

So far I'm not detecting any taste difference from the steel, so I'm feeling pretty good about that.

@Arawfish Soon! A week... maybe two...

I would really really like one. I emailed you about my inquiry though since it may only apply to me

 

[attackpoints]

@gordontreeman

I have experimented with this. I found that when the wood expands and contracts with the seasons it can sometimes crack the glass in the process. Obviously this doesn't happen all the time, and if you use an adhesive with some flexibility it can help for sure.... but the slim chance that it could happen.... and that you'd never know... and that you could possibly have glass shards just waiting to be dislodged inside of the stem... well that's just a huge no for me, hahaha. It would also make the entire thing much more fragile, I think a drop could crack the g
So far I'm not detecting any taste difference from the steel, so I'm feeling pretty good about that.

@Arawfish Soon! A week... maybe two...

I'm glad to hear there isn't a detectable taste difference. Reading about the stems made me wonder if it would be similar to stainless steel straws which can sometimes give a metallic a taste, but of course it's much more durable than glass.

Also love the sidecar idea, it's so nice to watch the vapor when you pull. Excited to see more, as always.

 

[Dan Morrison]

@attackpoints I don't have any experience with stainless straws.... but the taste of stainless could be due to individual sensitivity, acidic drinks attacking the steel, or cheaper grades of stainless.

I would assume most straws are made from the cheaper 304 stainless or something similar. And because there are a lot of acidic drinks out there, rust could definitely be an issue. I find it very easy to taste/smell rust, even when it doesn't actually look rusted.

My guess is that the main culprit is the use of cheap stainless.

I would be using 316ss, so I'm hoping that will make a big difference. I also think that the interaction between vapor/air and the stainless is less likely to transfer tastes vs. liquid drinks.

Since the steel will be encased in wood on the outside, your lips won't touch the steel either, so that may help as well.

 

[gordontreeman]

@Dan Morrison I had no idea wood expanded/contracted that much from atmospheric humidity! I'm hardly an expert though--did a few "shop" type classes in HS but that is about the extent of my woodworking knowledge and experience.

I'm always curious if stainless vs glass makes a real difference in taste. I'm pretty fanatical about my coffee, being someone who buys fresh roasted beans, grinds it by hand in the morning, and makes pour overs with re-mineralized distilled water (this last step isn't always necessary, but the water quality where I'm living right now isn't great for coffee). There are lots of debates about whether stainless tumblers affect the taste. Looking into it from a chemistry pov stainless and glass are both inert and should provide no flavor nor retain flavors (assuming you clean it properly; like the products we on FC enjoy coffee deposits oils that can eventually go rancid). What I do notice is a slight metallic taste from my stainless lined tumbler vs my ceramic mugs, but I think that is due to my tongue and mouth contacting the stainless more than it is that the coffee itself has somehow picked up a taste. I'm always curious if its the same for vaporizers--its less that the metal imparts a flavor to the vapor and more that you're mouth is in contact with metal. I see people claim to taste an "obvious" difference between e.g. stainless and glass or stainless vs ti and I can't help but be a little skeptical if that would hold up under double blind testing.

Anyway all of this to say that I think the stainless is a fine compromise personally. If you have some glass lined stems whenever my name happens to come up in your toad batches maybe I'll ping you to see if its an option. You're absolutely right that they'd be more fragile than steel, I just figure for home use that is a compromise I'm cool with making. Have you played with all wood stems similar to the nomad? With another of my vapes I was initially turned off by an unlined wooden stem, but its ended up being arguably my favorite--its cherry, which imparts a subtle woody flavor that I happen to enjoy. If you really want to just taste your flower its probably not for you, but to me it adds a little je ne sais quoi. Its a nice bonus that wood seems to be a natural insulator, so it doesn't seem like much ends up condensing on it (though whenever it does build up it will be trickier to clean than stainless/glass ofc).

edit: as a point of curiosity I wonder if the expansion/contraction problem could be mitigated by using a liner that just fits into the wood via pressure. I have a stem for another of my vapes that uses a design like this, you just pull out to clean the glass and push it in when in use. I haven't noticed any problems, though its absolutely a bear to pull it out after use when its still hot!

 

[Dan Morrison]

@gordontreeman All very excellent points!

Check to see if your stainless tumbler is 316ss or not. Also, stainless is "stainless" because of a thin oxide of chromium on the surface. This layer can be scratched with abrasive cleaning sponges. I notice that I get that metallic smell when I clean a stainless steel pot with an abrasive pad. It takes a little bit for that oxide layer to build back up again.

Coffee is acidic, so that doesn't help either.

I would definitely consider all glass long stems (not encased in wood), but finding skilled glass blowers with time to take on such a project has been difficult.

I guess a plan b could be to have the stainless steel enameled with glass on the interior.... but that seems a bit overkill to me.

You could definitely use some kind of O-ring to house glass inside of wood, and I do in other designs, but for this particular design it wouldn't work for a few reasons. 1. Curved sections, 2. the actual diameter of the stem being too small to allow for an O-ring groove, and 3. the fact that the glass tube itself would have to be very thin walled as well as narrow and long... which is just a recipe for disaster, ahha.

I've experimented with all wood stems, and sell all wood stems for the Nomads. I find each wood imparts its own unique characteristics.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying an all-wood long stem, it might be a good cheaper option. I am actually quite fond of roasted bamboo as a stem material. It keeps a very nice taste, a bit like caramel.... and it's not very porous. The interior walls are easier to keep clean.

I also notice there is something special about the all wood stems, I like the fact that it doesn't condense vapor as much.

 

[Razhumikin]

@gordontreeman All very excellent points!

Check to see if your stainless tumbler is 316ss or not. Also, stainless is "stainless" because of a thin oxide of chromium on the surface. This layer can be scratched with abrasive cleaning sponges. I notice that I get that metallic smell when I clean a stainless steel pot with an abrasive pad. It takes a little bit for that oxide layer to build back up again.

Coffee is acidic, so that doesn't help either.

I would definitely consider all glass long stems (not encased in wood), but finding skilled glass blowers with time to take on such a project has been difficult.

I guess a plan b could be to have the stainless steel enameled with glass on the interior.... but that seems a bit overkill to me.

You could definitely use some kind of O-ring to house glass inside of wood, and I do in other designs, but for this particular design it wouldn't work for a few reasons. 1. Curved sections, 2. the actual diameter of the stem being too small to allow for an O-ring groove, and 3. the fact that the glass tube itself would have to be very thin walled as well as narrow and long... which is just a recipe for disaster, ahha.

I've experimented with all wood stems, and sell all wood stems for the Nomads. I find each wood imparts its own unique characteristics.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying an all-wood long stem, it might be a good cheaper option. I am actually quite fond of roasted bamboo as a stem material. It keeps a very nice taste, a bit like caramel.... and it's not very porous. The interior walls are easier to keep clean.

I also notice there is something special about the all wood stems, I like the fact that it doesn't condense vapor as much.

A roasted bamboo stem sounds amazing! I totally agree about all wood stems, each wood has its own distinct character that is interesting to explore. I have a thuya burl stem that makes all the vapor incredibly spicy.

 

[mendeazy]

@Arawfish That's correct! For this first batch I'll just DM the people that shared interested within this thread so far.

In that case… I’m interested!!

 

[kanal]

@gordontreeman All very excellent points!

Check to see if your stainless tumbler is 316ss or not. Also, stainless is "stainless" because of a thin oxide of chromium on the surface. This layer can be scratched with abrasive cleaning sponges. I notice that I get that metallic smell when I clean a stainless steel pot with an abrasive pad. It takes a little bit for that oxide layer to build back up again.

Coffee is acidic, so that doesn't help either.

I would definitely consider all glass long stems (not encased in wood), but finding skilled glass blowers with time to take on such a project has been difficult.

I guess a plan b could be to have the stainless steel enameled with glass on the interior.... but that seems a bit overkill to me.

You could definitely use some kind of O-ring to house glass inside of wood, and I do in other designs, but for this particular design it wouldn't work for a few reasons. 1. Curved sections, 2. the actual diameter of the stem being too small to allow for an O-ring groove, and 3. the fact that the glass tube itself would have to be very thin walled as well as narrow and long... which is just a recipe for disaster, ahha.

I've experimented with all wood stems, and sell all wood stems for the Nomads. I find each wood imparts its own unique characteristics.

I wouldn't be opposed to trying an all-wood long stem, it might be a good cheaper option. I am actually quite fond of roasted bamboo as a stem material. It keeps a very nice taste, a bit like caramel.... and it's not very porous. The interior walls are easier to keep clean.

I also notice there is something special about the all wood stems, I like the fact that it doesn't condense vapor as much.

Sometimes I don't really understand half the details you are sharing and discussing, but just wanted to let you know that I really appreciate all the insights you are giving - feels a little bit like being part of the building process even when not contributing anything Cant wait to see how this one will work out!

 

[triskelion]

Sign me up, please.

 

[attackpoints]

@attackpoints I don't have any experience with stainless straws.... but the taste of stainless could be due to individual sensitivity, acidic drinks attacking the steel, or cheaper grades of stainless.

I would assume most straws are made from the cheaper 304 stainless or something similar. And because there are a lot of acidic drinks out there, rust could definitely be an issue. I find it very easy to taste/smell rust, even when it doesn't actually look rusted.

My guess is that the main culprit is the use of cheap stainless.

I would be using 316ss, so I'm hoping that will make a big difference. I also think that the interaction between vapor/air and the stainless is less likely to transfer tastes vs. liquid drinks.

Since the steel will be encased in wood on the outside, your lips won't touch the steel either, so that may help as well.

Oh, I think you're correct about it being either the quality of the stainless steel or the liquid itself being acidic and affecting the taste. I was thinking of the times that I've had water through these straws or used a thermos from a conference and been put off by the metallic tang it can leave behind, and am glad that the vapor is unaffected. Of course, vapor isn't going to affect stainless like a liquid would.

Did you consider titanium as a material? Again, probably a non issue since we're talking about vapor here, but I believe it is less likely to impart a flavor.

I didn't mention in my previous post but I love the stem design in the middle.

 

[money2]

Formally expressing project interest

 

[bosscib]

@Dan Morrison I'm late to the party, and I see that there are a ton of other interested members already. Please add me to the list if you have room in any of your batches. I'm new to vaping and was just looking through all of your work - it's incredible!

 

[seriousTone]

Fucking Christ those stems are sick.

 

[jungpunk420]

This has been my side project for the last year or so. As many of you know I've got my hands full with the Nomads, so I've only been able to work on this when I have free time. What does a woodworker do on his days off? Woodworking of course!

The concept behind the Toad is for me to just have fun and keep it loose. I won't be taking custom orders for these, I'm just going to make em' and put them out into the world. This is an opportunity to explore my art style and see what happens.

The design is mean't to be more minimalist compared to the Nomad 1 and 2. The body is pretty much a blank canvas.

Single 18650, 100% convection, unregulated. Uses the same heaters as the Nomad 1 and 2, interchangeable between all models.

____

This is no. 001, first functional unit made. It's definitely rough around the edges, but you get the idea! haha.

The dimensions are: 0.93" x 1.76" x 3.85"

The fire button is the exact same tried and true magnetic design that's in the Nomad 1 and 2. Buttons are interchangeable between all models. The entire button can be disassembled for deep cleaning, which I tend to do every 6 months or so.

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I used oil paint on this body... and I ended up not liking it so much. More on the paint later in the post.

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Stem system is the same as the Nomad 1 and 2, the stems are interchangeable between all models. My favorite pairing with the Toad right now is a wood stem loaded with glass cooling beads.

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Magnetic bottom plate. I experimented with solid silver electrical contact in this one... so far no difference compared to brass. Time will tell if it's worth it. Just like in the Nomad 2, the brass connector is spring loaded, and there is a hard OFF built in that's super quick and easy. This is mean't to be pocket friendly, so while the bottom plate is in the OFF position there is no possible way to engage the heater.

You'll see that the side walls are suuuper thin. More on that later. I've tried to shave off every tiny bit of material so make this as small as you can go with an 18650 inside.

Installed into the body are two magnetic stainless steel pins. These are machined with side grooves so that when they're glued in place they'll never come back out. The only magnets are in the bottom plate, which can be easily replaced if the magnets are ever damaged.

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Here are some tests working out the recipe for my composite covering material. Testing various adhesives, papers, paints, and protective coatings.

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I think that the most unique part of the design is the method of construction for the body. I use a solid wood core that is machined much in the same way as the Nomads are. This core is then permanently covered in what you might consider a natural fiberglass. This composite material draws on my research and experimentation from the Nomad 1. However, it's a much different material compared to the kraft paper and glue laminate material that I made the Nomad 1 "sleeves" from.

The main component of the covering is Washi paper that is hand made from gampi plant fibers. It's a sustainable and eco-friendly paper making process.

I wrap the wood cores with thin layers of washi saturated with refined wheat starch paste. The resulting composite dries to a wood-like hardness, but with greater toughness. If you cut this material in half, you don't see any layers, it appears to be a solid material.

A similar process is used to make a few super obscure Japanese objects that I won't go into too much... but that is to say that this material has a history and is known to last hundreds of years.

This composite gives the wood core greater strength, allowing me to make the side walls extra-thin. It also creates the a strong and thin bottom lip that holds the bottom plate aligned.

___

For the paint layer, I've been exploring ways to put the colour in the paper, not on top of the paper. My above tests show what the colour layers look like when they're inside the paper. The washi I use is so thin that it is somewhat transparent. This allows me to add pigment to the papers before wrapping... so that when the wrapping is complete, you can see the pigment through multiple paper layers. The colour runs all the way through the covering, down to the wood core.

The final layer is an extra-thin layer of unpainted washi. This layer is practically transparent, allowing the paint to show through. This thin layer is then saturated with natural blonde shellac. This creates the water and wear resistant top layer. More layers of shellac and sanding can give different feels to the surface, from velvety smooth and soft, to a more hard glossy feel.

The benefit to putting the colour inside of the paper is that it won't wear off with daily handling. I also much prefer the feel of this composite vs the feeling of paint (or paint-like clear coats). It has a warm feeling like leather or finely sanded wood.

Another cool thing about this composite is that it's made from 100% natural, non-toxic, materials. You could literally eat this sleeve.

I'm also hoping to make most of these from woods that I've harvested from around my house. There is a secondary goal here to make these be an example of what's possible with sustainable materials.

___

The name, Toad, is mostly just because I like toads and it's fun. I like the idea of having little toad drawings adorn some of these.... I think they give off a vibe that's kinda playful, earthy... and conjures up images of forest dwellers going on little adventures in the undergrowth.

My art style is definitely moving in a mushroomy, little creatures, sort of direction, and that's the stuff that'll end up on these pieces first I think.

Price is unknown at the moment, just going to play it by ear. They're easier to make compared to the Nomads, and so I'm hoping to hit a price point that is in the $200 - $300 range.

Not accepting any dibs or anything like that just yet. I have no idea when this will be ready... like I mentioned at the top of this thread, I've got my hands full with Nomads at the moment.

I'd like to just make a few of these, here and there, working in my own style. They'll go up for sale now and then.

___

Anyhow! Totally interested in your guys thoughts, suggestions, critiques, all that good stuff! This is the only place I've shared this. An FC exclusive!

Of course I'll be posting updates here on the process as I get closer to the final market-ready units.

I love the fact that all of this is handmade in the tradition of the Japanese masters! Kudos for using sustainable materials as well Dan!
I hope to know my placement on the Nomad II wait list by late September (around my day of rebirth, the 21st perhaps?) and hope that qualifies me to be in line for the Toad as well!
Cheers and stay safe all!

 

[passenger]

Did you know that if you kiss the Toad it becomes a Nomad II?
I want one.

 

[jungpunk420]

@kanal , not sure yet. I may just dump a batch of 15 or so here on the thread. Anyone who has said or says they're interested in the thread will likely get special favor. This may be okay until I do a more public release.

@3migo , noted! one point for gradients!

With this newest Toad I made the outer shell with a hard acrylic adhesive intead of the wheat starch paste, The final result is practically identical in look and feel... but this acryic makes the shell totally waterproof and just a tad bit more stiff and durable. I think the adhesion strength between the layers is higher as well. Adhesion to the wood is on par with the wheat starch. Both shells are topped with beeswax/mineral oil.

The acrylic is a bit easier to use, less water content, more initial tackiness and faster dry time. Transparency might be a little better with the acrylic.

The acrylic doesn't need to be finished with an infusion of shellac, reducing a step.

Both adhesives are artist top grade, archival. The acrylic is made in Canada by an eco-conscious company (Tri-art).

I am torn. On one hand the acrylic checks a lot of boxes...and if im totally honest it's probably the superior thing to use in terms of durability. But the wheat starch/shellac is a very close second...with the added cool factor of being traditional and totally natural.

Thoughts? How important is the all-natural thing? I mean...at the end of the day these Toads will still have silicon o-rings, acrylic lenses, and PEEK heater module insulators... You simply must go with what is functionally the best material for the job...right!? hmm.

but but but.... i was looking forward to eating my toad skins!

Best material for the job gets my vote! If it’s made to last it’ll be easier on the environment anyway!

Yeah, agree with this. I love the gentle earth tones so a nice earthy red, with the green sage, and the cool river stone blue would all be great options.

Also wanted to join the echoes on going acrylic vs washi. No one would be upset about added durability.

I'd love a chance at one of these.

Yes! Like a terracotta red would be dope!

 

[Polyphone]

Oh, I think you're correct about it being either the quality of the stainless steel or the liquid itself being acidic and affecting the taste. I was thinking of the times that I've had water through these straws or used a thermos from a conference and been put off by the metallic tang it can leave behind, and am glad that the vapor is unaffected. Of course, vapor isn't going to affect stainless like a liquid would.

Did you consider titanium as a material? Again, probably a non issue since we're talking about vapor here, but I believe it is less likely to impart a flavor.

I didn't mention in my previous post but I love the stem design in the middle.

I’m a (mostly) former pipe smoker…you know, the kind made from briar loaded with tobacco…

Vapes, perhaps unsurprisingly, share many traits with tobacco pipes. Imho, there is still a ton to be mined there, but I digress.

Occasionally pipe makers will insert medical grade stainless tubing inside the stem to reinforce very thin sections of briar that would otherwise be at risk of breakage.

Slender pipes with these inserts have become popular over the last several years as a wave of Bing Crosby inspired pipes have become prominent giving a good number of folks some experience with the impact stainless can have on “vapor/smoke” flavor.

Generally, a minority detect a difference in flavor presentation, most people seem to find no difference.

I find it does make a difference and adds a harsh, acidic quality but the overall impact is minor. My preference is for no stainless.

But vapes are not pipes and the flavor natively changed quite quickly with MJ. I suspect a stainless airway would have less significance here.

 

[Dan Morrison]

@Polyphone , I got my start in the tobacco pipe world and learned a lot while posting on the pipemakersforum. I also feel like that world has many lessons to teach vape makers.

Seems like you've already flushed the idea out and we align on our conclusions!

 

[Electrofever]

Ahah, just wanting to join all the people who have shown some, or a lot, of interest in this lovely new project of yours, Dan !! Sign me in, please

 

[Polyphone]

@Polyphone , I got my start in the tobacco pipe world and learned a lot while posting on the pipemakersforum. I also feel like that world has many lessons to teach vape makers.

Seems like you've already flushed the idea out and we align on our conclusions!

Oh really? That’s probably why I picked up on a pipe-y vibe with these vapes!

Something about the resin buttons brings to mind Trevor Talbert. You both seem to have a talent highlighting the organic while using original designs.

I lurked on pmf back in the day but didn’t have the nerve to post any of my butter fingered hobby block disasters where Jeff, Todd or Rad might see them lol.

I’ve often wondered if we would see briar used in vape designs. It’s certainly more ideal than many types of wood that are commonly used though finding blocks large enough may be a challenge.

 

[Denis69]

This stem design looks really intereesting, I would love to see how it looks on its final version
I guess you are working with some glass blowers on this one ?
Anyway, please sign me in, I have been very late on the nomad train, so I feel like I'd better catch this one

 

[Dan Morrison]

@Polyphone, I like Trevers halloween pipes, super weird, haha.

I used briar for some of the Nomads, and I'll likely start offering briar stems soon.

One of the qualities I like about briar is that it's very neutral in taste. I think this partially comes from the boiling process that briar goes through to remove natural resins etc.. It also seems to be very stable.

 

[namasteIII]

Let me on the list please. I love the design, and really want a super rugged Nomad that I don't have to be precious about.

I've been thinking a lot about how good then Nomad heater is. And how we could easily take more advantage of how modular it is. The Toad is an example. Been thinking about a number of desktop designs. Could have the brains on the desk, and just small wood housing the heater snaps into. Place it on a bong, use it with stems.

Really Nomad heater could also be great for DIY you've got a great heater, and tiny, power it and a housing of sorts and you've got an amazing vape.

I don't know lots of neat places we can take this thing.

 

[fangorn]

I fully understand and respect the urge and need to collect Dan's vaporizers ...

but for the lucky owners of a Nomad 1 and / or 2 ... do you think you could give your place on the list to non-owners of Dan vaporizers? this would allow more people to have access to its radiators