mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
We should try to weigh bowls and see if we are comparing apples to apples. Because I'm getting closer to 2o hits from every bowl.
Discontinued The Firefly Vaporizer
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We should try to weigh bowls and see if we are comparing apples to apples. Because I'm getting closer to 2o hits from every bowl.
Volteric
Well-Known Member
Man we are truly having vast experiential differences. I'm wondering if my 6 monster hits are equal in volume to your 20 hits? I guess the only way to know is for you to cruise over with your stash and have a side by side session!
Just wanted to share what a painless experience it is to contact FF cust. service. My FF tragically leapt to its death from my grasp and suffered a broken collar. It is off to the motherland for repair, Thanks to Shelby for the great support. I am sure this will be a quick turnaround.
EveryDayAmnesiac
Well-Known Member
DaKine
New Member
I'm also in the half-fill camp. My reasoning is based on following the air flow.
Any material that extends higher than the lip of the ceramic bowl is not in the air path of the heated air.
I go light on the button, continue to draw for 15-20 seconds after releasing the button, as this thing does store heat in the bowl.
2 Paces
Well-Known Member
For any that might still be interested, I do not believe my unit is broken.
After spending most of the weekend with it, I was finally able to get a feel for the draw. I'm still not getting the vapor production I was expecting, but I am definitely getting all the goodies out of the herb.
I think my expectations were what was throwing me off. Maybe I need more work on my technique, but I still have yet to get what I would call a big or dense hit off of the Firefly. I am amazed by those that say they get 20 hits from a bowl, and those that are surprised by how much vapor they exhale on each hit.
I'm still not there yet, but hopefully will be soon. So far I am getting about 5 hits per bowl. None of them are huge amounts of vapor, but it is visible.
I am starting to warm up to the Firefly, and hopefully my results will continue to improve. Regardless of the visibility of the vapor, it does its job.
This is an interesting unit for sure...
After spending most of the weekend with it, I was finally able to get a feel for the draw. I'm still not getting the vapor production I was expecting, but I am definitely getting all the goodies out of the herb.
I think my expectations were what was throwing me off. Maybe I need more work on my technique, but I still have yet to get what I would call a big or dense hit off of the Firefly. I am amazed by those that say they get 20 hits from a bowl, and those that are surprised by how much vapor they exhale on each hit.
I'm still not there yet, but hopefully will be soon. So far I am getting about 5 hits per bowl. None of them are huge amounts of vapor, but it is visible.
I am starting to warm up to the Firefly, and hopefully my results will continue to improve. Regardless of the visibility of the vapor, it does its job.
This is an interesting unit for sure...
Volteric
Well-Known Member
Hmmm...even though my pic shows it above the bowl chamber I lightly tamp it down to just under lip but I'm going to try just layering a shallow bowl and see if I get different results.
EveryDayAmnesiac
Well-Known Member
It seems as though we're starting to see that the Firefly can be used very differently.
I usually take in the 6-8 range. Filled almost to the brim. Very gently tamped one time. SCS grind. Clouds if I want them. I prefer to save my still light-ish ABV for my Ascent rather than push it in the FF. Most of what I want during the day is 390 and below, anyway.
For me, the FF is my daytime vape. I still don't think I'd use it as my only home vaporizer, but it certainly can act as one.
I still don't quite know how to explain it, but the more I use my "mouth power" rather than my "lung power," the better results I get. I have also found that making a "pucker-up" type of connection to the mouthpiece to be helpful.
If you've watched either of my 'Fly vids, you know (mini) clouds are possible!
[URL='http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/best-of-the-firefly-vaporizer-thread.16628/']
[/URL]
I usually take in the 6-8 range. Filled almost to the brim. Very gently tamped one time. SCS grind. Clouds if I want them. I prefer to save my still light-ish ABV for my Ascent rather than push it in the FF. Most of what I want during the day is 390 and below, anyway.
For me, the FF is my daytime vape. I still don't think I'd use it as my only home vaporizer, but it certainly can act as one.
I still don't quite know how to explain it, but the more I use my "mouth power" rather than my "lung power," the better results I get. I have also found that making a "pucker-up" type of connection to the mouthpiece to be helpful.
If you've watched either of my 'Fly vids, you know (mini) clouds are possible!
[URL='http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/best-of-the-firefly-vaporizer-thread.16628/']
[/URL]
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Volteric
Well-Known Member
It seems as though we're starting to see that the Firefly can be used very differently.
I usually take in the 6-8 range. Filled almost to the brim. Very gently tamped one time. SCS grind. Clouds if I want them. I prefer to save my still light-ish ABV for my Ascent rather than push it in the FF. Most of what I want during the day is 390 and below, anyway.
I still don't quite know how to explain it, but the more I use my "mouth power" rather than my "lung power," the better results I get. I have also found that making a "pucker-up" type of connection to the mouthpiece to be helpful.
If you've watched either of my 'Fly vids, you know (mini) clouds are possible!
That's interesting! I am def not using mouth power but lung power and I continue to inhale debris. I've tried placing my tongue very close to mouthpiece to "feel" vape but to no avail. Maybe I should just try puffing on it like a cigar and then inhale. This thing has been very hit and miss for me just like the MFLB which to say when I get it right it's superb and when I don't I get downright ornery!
EveryDayAmnesiac
Well-Known Member
Yeah, I've started to use closer to a micro-toke method. I wouldn't recommend this to anyone but it's certainly working for me.
It's like in a cigar / old school tobacco pipe / micro-toke way that I'm using it. Using my mouth power to bring a little air over the herb and just enough lung power to keep each mini toke going downward into my lungs.
I don't recommend this method to anyone unless you're having trouble and need a new approach.
I wasn't having trouble really, but I have simply found this method to work better for me and my weak little lungs.
It's like in a cigar / old school tobacco pipe / micro-toke way that I'm using it. Using my mouth power to bring a little air over the herb and just enough lung power to keep each mini toke going downward into my lungs.
I don't recommend this method to anyone unless you're having trouble and need a new approach.
I wasn't having trouble really, but I have simply found this method to work better for me and my weak little lungs.
Un Prophete
Active Member
If you're still getting debris I'd recommend trying to leave a little bit of space between your lips and the mouthpiece, lessening the draw pressure considerably. Doing it this way you can basically draw as hard as you'd like. Since I implemented this technique my experience has improved dramatically.
Volteric
Well-Known Member
I'll give that a try. I'm basically making out with this device and feel we need some space apart so I'll try sipping as you suggest!
Shiggity
Well-Known Member
Debris can come from too fine a grind as well. The hand grind direct to the bowl has worked well for me. Also, periodic cleaning of the bowl channels on the lid and the base steel plate has worked. Thirdly I exert a lil pressure on the lid to make sure it is snug against the base. Otherwise there is enough room for debris to go where it should not. Lastly a blowout of the nouthpiece with lid off can help get out any stray particles.
DaKine
New Member
I haven't inhaled any debris myself yet, but I'm also not using a grinder at all, just the finger-crumble.
One reason we're seeing such difference of technique here, is due to the topic of "clouds", which I also saw a discussion of here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/does-one-miss-the-clouds.11967/ .
Personally, I don't need to exhale clouds to feel like it's working. Clouds represent wasted THC in my mind. I measure effectiveness from flavor, change of color of the herb, and the buzz in my head.
I hold each hit, and probably get 15 hits off a bowl, with very little visible clouds on exhale.
I know seeing clouds is important for others as a visual cue that they got something, and if that's your goal, then definitely go heavier on the button, which leads to less hits per bowl.
One reason we're seeing such difference of technique here, is due to the topic of "clouds", which I also saw a discussion of here: http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/does-one-miss-the-clouds.11967/ .
Personally, I don't need to exhale clouds to feel like it's working. Clouds represent wasted THC in my mind. I measure effectiveness from flavor, change of color of the herb, and the buzz in my head.
I hold each hit, and probably get 15 hits off a bowl, with very little visible clouds on exhale.I know seeing clouds is important for others as a visual cue that they got something, and if that's your goal, then definitely go heavier on the button, which leads to less hits per bowl.
mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
Man we are truly having vast experiential differences. I'm wondering if my 6 monster hits are equal in volume to your 20 hits? I guess the only way to know is for you to cruise over with your stash and have a side by side session!
I'm pulling into your driveway now.
Among my 15-20 hits are at least six that I would call "monster" but maybe they are not that big to you. As I mentioned in an earlier post, a bowl lasts me two days. (Now, I use the FF only at night, and my V Tower during the day...but one filled-to-the-rim bowl in the FF will last me for two nights of at least 30 minutes of vaping each night, maybe 10 good hits in each session.) The last half dozen hits aren't the best but are still useful, visible hits. (And I still get two more large hits from every bowl when I finish the ABV in the V Tower.)Again, this is a bowl filled to the rim, level-ish, with medium grind. I'm gonna weigh the next couple and report back. Maybe we can start talking apples/apples.
Right, you don't *need* big visible hits, and obviously many folks prefer not to get clouds as it wastes material. But you *should*, with practice, be able to get big visible hits if you want them. Only towards the very end of a pretty darkened bowl am I unable to get big hits. Otherwise, hold the button down longer and you get bigger hits. You also risk charring, of course.
I'm glad you think your unit is working properly. Hopefully more time will get you the results you are looking for. As I said above it is pretty standard for me to pull close to 20 hits from a medium-grind, filled-to-the-rim bowl, most of which are medium or large.
I personally got horrible results when I didn't use enough. Couldn't really get enough vapor...I assumed a function of overall lower temps due to less material heating up. I find I get the best results when filling the bowl all the way.
It seems as though we're starting to see that the Firefly can be used very differently.
For me, the FF is my daytime vape. I still don't think I'd use it as my only home vaporizer, but it certainly can act as one.
I still don't quite know how to explain it, but the more I use my "mouth power" rather than my "lung power," the better results I get. I have also found that making a "pucker-up" type of connection to the mouthpiece to be helpful.
One of the beautiful things about the FF is how folks are finding their own unique rhythm with it.
Funny you mention daytime...the FF is my nighttime vape. Different strokes...And the mouth thing, I totally get. I find this is useful on the MFLB as well, or any vape where you are trying to extract a larger amount in one hit than you might normally be able to pull with just lungs. Keep sucking, repeatedly, like you're trying to suck a thick shake. It's almost a process of aggregation...you are pulling multiple hits of vapor into your mouth before sucking all of them into your lungs. I find this is helpful with the Solo, as well...a great way to overcome a stiff draw, not stress your lungs, and still pull a big hit.
EveryDayAmnesiac
Well-Known Member
$10 and eligible for Amazon Prime.
So that's the FF, power adapter, external charger, three batts (one in FF), three small aerospace containers, tools, smokebuddy jr, wipes, cotton swabs... and a little extra space. There's also a little compartment on the back of the "flip" insert.
It's a bit of a tight fit, and it sure as shit ain't perfect, but for $10, it'll do!
And it says Amazon on it, so it's pretty inconspicuous.
-E.D.A.
Link
So that's the FF, power adapter, external charger, three batts (one in FF), three small aerospace containers, tools, smokebuddy jr, wipes, cotton swabs... and a little extra space. There's also a little compartment on the back of the "flip" insert.
It's a bit of a tight fit, and it sure as shit ain't perfect, but for $10, it'll do!
And it says Amazon on it, so it's pretty inconspicuous.
-E.D.A.
Link
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EveryDayAmnesiac
Well-Known Member
My first thoughts there are you're either leaning on the button too long or hitting the button again too soon, i.e. "pulsing it," which apparently some people do with success.
Maybe simply breathing too slowly with extra dry herbs? But I wouldn't think it would cause that type of charring. I only get that type of charring on a 2nd or 3rd toke that I'm taking very soon after a previous toke and lean on the button extra long. Can always taste when it happens.
Might want to try the @steama approach where you inhale fast enough to feel resistance and then scale it back just enough so that you're not feeling resistance. If you haven't already.
Maybe simply breathing too slowly with extra dry herbs? But I wouldn't think it would cause that type of charring. I only get that type of charring on a 2nd or 3rd toke that I'm taking very soon after a previous toke and lean on the button extra long. Can always taste when it happens.
Might want to try the @steama approach where you inhale fast enough to feel resistance and then scale it back just enough so that you're not feeling resistance. If you haven't already.
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genericandorwittyusername
Well-Known Member
Just wanted to add the perspective of a 20something tech and physics nerd (but no expert by any means) to this discussion.
I didn’t see these things covered in my read through, but perhaps I missed some of them.
First off, my Firefly brand power adapter is rated at 100-240V,
so unless they’ve changed this in the past few weeks since I got mine, international users should be fine with just an adapter. Perhaps other owners can chime in.
On the electrical system in this thing, we have to do a bit of math, and I’m simplifying and rounding, but there are a few unknowns we can figure out. The battery is a 5.55 Watt-hour unit,
if my understanding of electrical systems is correct, that means it should be able to put out 5.55 watts for one hour. The podcast that was linked to a while back had an interview with the designers. They mentioned that this little gizmo can draw up to 50 watts, but usually runs lower.
5.55 watts (joules/second) * 60 minutes per hour * 60 seconds per minute ≈ just shy of 20,000 joules stored in this little battery.
≈ 20,000 joules / 50 watts ≈ 400 seconds ≈ 6 and two thirds minutes that this unit could run at full tilt (assuming it could dissipate that much heat, which it can’t) before the battery was drained.
rehash
Now we know that power delivered to the heating coil (it’s coil shaped, of course I took it apart) varies in order to make sure the temperature of the air doesn’t go above 400 degrees Fahrenheit (204.44 C, 477.59 K), but the designers mentioned that you can get a heat boost by restarting the heating cycle, that’s why it will glow brighter for a few seconds when you do that. The coil also reduces in brightness as air flows over it, but I think most of the dimming as you inhale is due to the heating/power curve winding down to maintain rather than heat.
/rehash
I did do a test to see how many 30 second hits (the time before my unit turns off when holding the button) one could take on a charge. The total time it was running was just shy of ten minutes (running time, not including cooling time), meaning that it averaged 20,000 joules / 600 seconds ≈ 33.3 watts for about ten minutes, meaning that it averages about 2/3 of its heating capacity, stacked toward the front end of each heating cycle.
My unit did not overheat (amber light) during this test, but it did get too hot to hold comfortably at about the five minute mark, so I put it on a cool surface for a few minutes. This is why they are so heavy (also what the designers said, heat dissipation and thermal mass), you would get a pretty serious burn from a 50 watt (or even a 30) bulb after it had been running for five minutes. Also where most of your money went, that alloy and the thermal design. Only a very small amount of material in the heating coil, but a light bulb without its protective inert gas and glass shell would burn out in seconds. This thing has to cycle rapidly between room temperature and probably well above 400 degrees for short periods of time (hate thermodynamics work, and I don’t think it’s possible to know the actual temperature without knowing the composition of said proprietary alloy. If one did know, then I believe you could figure out the temperature based on the color of the glow). Otherwise the whole thing is a very simple and robust design. It must have taken some very serious engineering to get everything balanced just so, because that’s a hell of a lot of thermal energy to play around with.
This is also why they didn’t use Li-poly batteries. You can’t get that much power out of a Li-poly that quickly. Also the reason you can’t use while charging. You can fully charge a battery in about 45 minutes (have not timed this), but it only takes 10 minutes to drain it. The power (temperature) regulation chip design must not allow for both paths to run at the same time, and clearly the charger doesn’t provide enough (750 milliamp-hour battery, 310 milliamp output from the charger) juice to run the heating coil.
tl/dr: Some numbers and math, you won't find any help here.
I believe that’s all I’ve got. Questions, comments, concerns?
[URL='http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/best-of-the-firefly-vaporizer-thread.16628/']
[/URL]
I didn’t see these things covered in my read through, but perhaps I missed some of them.
First off, my Firefly brand power adapter is rated at 100-240V,
so unless they’ve changed this in the past few weeks since I got mine, international users should be fine with just an adapter. Perhaps other owners can chime in.
On the electrical system in this thing, we have to do a bit of math, and I’m simplifying and rounding, but there are a few unknowns we can figure out. The battery is a 5.55 Watt-hour unit,
if my understanding of electrical systems is correct, that means it should be able to put out 5.55 watts for one hour. The podcast that was linked to a while back had an interview with the designers. They mentioned that this little gizmo can draw up to 50 watts, but usually runs lower.
5.55 watts (joules/second) * 60 minutes per hour * 60 seconds per minute ≈ just shy of 20,000 joules stored in this little battery.
≈ 20,000 joules / 50 watts ≈ 400 seconds ≈ 6 and two thirds minutes that this unit could run at full tilt (assuming it could dissipate that much heat, which it can’t) before the battery was drained.
rehash
Now we know that power delivered to the heating coil (it’s coil shaped, of course I took it apart) varies in order to make sure the temperature of the air doesn’t go above 400 degrees Fahrenheit (204.44 C, 477.59 K), but the designers mentioned that you can get a heat boost by restarting the heating cycle, that’s why it will glow brighter for a few seconds when you do that. The coil also reduces in brightness as air flows over it, but I think most of the dimming as you inhale is due to the heating/power curve winding down to maintain rather than heat.
/rehash
I did do a test to see how many 30 second hits (the time before my unit turns off when holding the button) one could take on a charge. The total time it was running was just shy of ten minutes (running time, not including cooling time), meaning that it averaged 20,000 joules / 600 seconds ≈ 33.3 watts for about ten minutes, meaning that it averages about 2/3 of its heating capacity, stacked toward the front end of each heating cycle.
My unit did not overheat (amber light) during this test, but it did get too hot to hold comfortably at about the five minute mark, so I put it on a cool surface for a few minutes. This is why they are so heavy (also what the designers said, heat dissipation and thermal mass), you would get a pretty serious burn from a 50 watt (or even a 30) bulb after it had been running for five minutes. Also where most of your money went, that alloy and the thermal design. Only a very small amount of material in the heating coil, but a light bulb without its protective inert gas and glass shell would burn out in seconds. This thing has to cycle rapidly between room temperature and probably well above 400 degrees for short periods of time (hate thermodynamics work, and I don’t think it’s possible to know the actual temperature without knowing the composition of said proprietary alloy. If one did know, then I believe you could figure out the temperature based on the color of the glow). Otherwise the whole thing is a very simple and robust design. It must have taken some very serious engineering to get everything balanced just so, because that’s a hell of a lot of thermal energy to play around with.
This is also why they didn’t use Li-poly batteries. You can’t get that much power out of a Li-poly that quickly. Also the reason you can’t use while charging. You can fully charge a battery in about 45 minutes (have not timed this), but it only takes 10 minutes to drain it. The power (temperature) regulation chip design must not allow for both paths to run at the same time, and clearly the charger doesn’t provide enough (750 milliamp-hour battery, 310 milliamp output from the charger) juice to run the heating coil.
tl/dr: Some numbers and math, you won't find any help here.
I believe that’s all I’ve got. Questions, comments, concerns?
[URL='http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/best-of-the-firefly-vaporizer-thread.16628/']
[/URL]
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EveryDayAmnesiac
Well-Known Member
Did you take any pictures of the Firefly as you were taking it apart?
genericandorwittyusername
Well-Known Member
No, but could do so within a few days, unfortunately my Torx T6 (or whatever it was) was since sacrificed to my Macbook pro while I was doing some work on that machine, so I need to go out and buy a new one.
Also just remembered there was some discussion on the magnets in the device a while back. They are (just tested) powerful enough to put an Apple laptop to sleep if you put the lid in the right place. That's how the computer senses the screen is closed. If you have a solid state computer, don't worry about it besides keeping the lid away from that point. If your computer has a spinning disk, don't put the lid near the hard drive while it's running (probably fine while off, but backup your data before testing any of this).
Should be fine next to a credit card in a wallet, but don't put the card under the lid and close the device. I'm also not going to test this one.
The glow is a bit counter-intuitive. That it dims at all when air passes over it (easier to see if you inhale briskly with no material in the bowl) means the aerodynamic design is very effective at removing heat from the coil, thus into the air and through your herb. That said, a huge amount of the energy is lost(ish) to the device. The lost energy is not actually lost, the coil doesn't have to work nearly as hard when the device gets hotter.
I think most of the heat in the air is lost after it passes through your material and collides with the lid, which is somewhat thermally isolated from the bowl (good thing glass to metal is such a terrible way to transfer heat, not that the bowl gets very hot near the top anyway), and has quite a bit of thermal mass itself. I believe this is why you see the window and lid getting dirty, a few of the heavier molecules condense out of the air as it cools rapidly on contact with the lid.
In short: as the device heats, the glow will dim and move from the yellowish to the orangeish (these are highly technical terms) part of the visible spectrum, all this indicates is that it has sensed the coil is the proper temperature to heat the air to about 400 degrees. I believe at this point it is mostly variation in draw speed that will cook material different amounts, and obviously the bottom of the bowl cooks a bit faster as the air cools on its way up. I've found it to be quite effective with a moderate but consistent draw (10-20 seconds) and occasional stir, but don't really want to get into dissecting method. It's all rather intuitive for me.
[URL='http://fuckcombustion.com/threads/best-of-the-firefly-vaporizer-thread.16628/']
[/URL]
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