Reggie Watts
Well-Known Member
Did you have to buy a new lid, or did FF send you one for warranty?
The Firefly 2 vaporizer
- Thread starter RobDaBomb
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Morimoto
Well-Known Member
I get that level of vapor production EVERY hit (minus a lid seating issue, extremely rare now that I'm paying attention to it), including the "green" hit which I'm officially renaming the FF2 Flavor hit. Yep! once I mastered the draw and just placing weed/flaking it in the bowl, absolutely no packing/tamping, and just enough that the very top of the top flakes will just barely touch the lid... then the load is "small" and can be extracted fully in 5-6 hits that are all mind chilling,
I really love the clean cerebral high from the FF2, I'm not getting that from my Lotus anymore, the Lotus seems "muted" now in all aspects, even though the clouds are bigger, it still feels "muted" AND I have my FF2 at just about the same amount of weed with flaking in in the bowl, maybe 15-20% larger on the FF2 than the same flaking/no pack/no tamp in the lotus.
I really love the clean cerebral high from the FF2, I'm not getting that from my Lotus anymore, the Lotus seems "muted" now in all aspects, even though the clouds are bigger, it still feels "muted" AND I have my FF2 at just about the same amount of weed with flaking in in the bowl, maybe 15-20% larger on the FF2 than the same flaking/no pack/no tamp in the lotus.
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Fully agree with this....I get pretty thick vapor on every hit now. After 4 I need to stir it up, hit it 3 more times, stir it again and bump it up to high and I can usually get 6 more pulls with good vapor stiring every 3 pulls. I'm always around 12-14 hits and abv comes out DARK.
The taste is amazing every pull even at the end.
Thank you for all the info! Very helpful. I think I do want the E-Nano. If I had the money, I would just order one right now to tide me over until the FF2 shows up. I'm currently still a combuster, and looking forward to making the transition.
mitchgo61
I go where the thrills are
1. Yes. You need the FF1 ac adaptor to use the external charger with either battery.
2. External charger is still IME the fastest charger.
KeroZen
Chronic vapaholic
I have a strong Deja-vu feeling with this gasket-gate issue. It reminds me when we discovered the air leak in the Davinci Ascent. In both cases, the leak is on the down-stream part, that is between the load and the mouthpiece, and it creates a non-optimal vapor/air ratio. Put simply, the actives are there but the vapor is diluted with extra air afterwards, making it less visible (and thus less enjoyable for some, due to the less noticeable visual cue)
It should be noted that in the Davinci case, they never acknowledged the issue publicly (even if their rep and other sources hinted that they were fully aware of the problem) And I think it will be the same for this company. The official reason being: the vape works and produces potent vapor, so there's no problem in their book. Now the real reason is pretty obvious: just imagine the cost if they did a public release of the issue! They would have to handle and swallow all product returns, provide free lids to all existing customers, it would be a nightmare and would ruin their margin. It would also cripple their product launch.
Note that in the Ascent case they had so many other show-stopping issues going on already and so many failing units returned to them that they simply couldn't afford such a disaster. In the end they never managed to implement a fix for the leak (but they did try, at least) For the FF2, I read some of you saying "it's just a matter of..." but this is where the harsh reality of product development in PRC kicks in: be it redesigning the lid, the gasket or even just the magnets, it will be way more work, time and money involved than you imagine. Changing the gasket means retooling the mold, changing the lid would be even harder, and for the magnets they would have to be the exact same dimensions or they would need to retool the lid production at the same time... That plus dealing with existing inventory...
For those having the issue your best best would be to develop a technique where you can press the lid and hit the trigger with a single hand... or use a rubber band as someone joked about!
It should be noted that in the Davinci case, they never acknowledged the issue publicly (even if their rep and other sources hinted that they were fully aware of the problem) And I think it will be the same for this company. The official reason being: the vape works and produces potent vapor, so there's no problem in their book. Now the real reason is pretty obvious: just imagine the cost if they did a public release of the issue! They would have to handle and swallow all product returns, provide free lids to all existing customers, it would be a nightmare and would ruin their margin. It would also cripple their product launch.
Note that in the Ascent case they had so many other show-stopping issues going on already and so many failing units returned to them that they simply couldn't afford such a disaster. In the end they never managed to implement a fix for the leak (but they did try, at least) For the FF2, I read some of you saying "it's just a matter of..." but this is where the harsh reality of product development in PRC kicks in: be it redesigning the lid, the gasket or even just the magnets, it will be way more work, time and money involved than you imagine. Changing the gasket means retooling the mold, changing the lid would be even harder, and for the magnets they would have to be the exact same dimensions or they would need to retool the lid production at the same time... That plus dealing with existing inventory...
For those having the issue your best best would be to develop a technique where you can press the lid and hit the trigger with a single hand... or use a rubber band as someone joked about!
...had to know though and my foggy brain isn't helping me much this mornin.
Vapenado
..you can put your weed in it
I'm posting a separate post bc it's a completely separate topic.
RE: gasket issues.
I'm not sure I understand entirely. There's <16th of an inch gap between the outer edge of the lid to where the gasket begins..in some cases. Mine has this gap. However, wouldn't the seal be provided from the opposite side of the gasket...the part of the gasket that's closers to the bowl....or 'inner' portion?
RE: gasket issues.
I'm not sure I understand entirely. There's <16th of an inch gap between the outer edge of the lid to where the gasket begins..in some cases. Mine has this gap. However, wouldn't the seal be provided from the opposite side of the gasket...the part of the gasket that's closers to the bowl....or 'inner' portion?
colomarijuana
Active Member
I reached out to my POC at Firefly yesterday to try to find out more about lids and initial FF feedback. No specifics again, but they have already made adjustments to the manufacturing process and quality control. I'm sure whatever gasket/magnet/seal issues are there, they are addressing them very quickly.
You are right. Most companies will not publicly admit fault like an automobile manufacturer would. I'm sure they'll adjust the process behind the scenes and address complaints as they come in.
I'll do my best to keep annoying FF for the latest info!
Baron23
Well-Known Member
So, I don't want to call anybody's baby ugly, and it appears that this vape is working for a significant amount of owners, but let's not dismiss the fact that a number of folks have FF2s that leak outside air into the air path between bowl and mouth piece.
Either the people with lid issues are uniformly blithering idiots who can't tie their shoe laces (or put a lid on a bottom) or FF has a design/manf issue. I'm definitely leaning toward the later (sarcasm intended)
Telling people to rubber band their $350+ appliance so it works properly is complete BS. Telling people they need to perfect their approach to putting a lid on the bottom is complete BS. Telling people they need to fix the issue by not drawing as hard is complete BS. Telling people that its either all in their imagination or their fault for improper operation is complete and utter BS. There is at least one root cause of leak problems out there whether anyone here or at FF cares to admit it.
I agree with KeroZen. FF2 warranty exchanged some lids early on, problem for those owners disappeared. Now FF is getting a bit more reticent about sending out new lids for folks with issues and, I firmly believe, for the practical financial reasons that KeroZen brought up.
I have no idea if its a gasket problem. I agree completely with Vapenado that the gasket is to seal the vapor path from the inside and a bit of variance in where it lines up against the outside edge of the lid shouldn't be an issue at all.
I have no idea what is the exact root cause of air leakage into the vapor path issue. It may well be variance in gasket tolerances and/or installation. It may well be that on some units the tolerances of bottom and lid mating surfaces (how flat they are) build up of to cause a leak between specific lids/bottoms.
I do know that the design is not fit for purpose IF you need a Phd to put a frakin lid on a base unit correctly. It would appear that their tolerances and specs are too critical such that some units are getting out that have problems and need outside force to seal the vapor path from diluting outside air. But that definitely IS a problem and it definitely is FF's problem to solve.
Whatever the case, while this vaporizer has been long and eagerly awaited and I fully understand owners excitement over their new vapes that are working correctly, everybody needs to quit blaming the users for air leaks and put the blame where it belongs....with FF. They need to make people like Reggie Watts right on this deal and they must look to their manf processes and specs and ensure that they eliminate this issue.
Either the people with lid issues are uniformly blithering idiots who can't tie their shoe laces (or put a lid on a bottom) or FF has a design/manf issue. I'm definitely leaning toward the later (sarcasm intended)
Telling people to rubber band their $350+ appliance so it works properly is complete BS. Telling people they need to perfect their approach to putting a lid on the bottom is complete BS. Telling people they need to fix the issue by not drawing as hard is complete BS. Telling people that its either all in their imagination or their fault for improper operation is complete and utter BS. There is at least one root cause of leak problems out there whether anyone here or at FF cares to admit it.
I agree with KeroZen. FF2 warranty exchanged some lids early on, problem for those owners disappeared. Now FF is getting a bit more reticent about sending out new lids for folks with issues and, I firmly believe, for the practical financial reasons that KeroZen brought up.
I have no idea if its a gasket problem. I agree completely with Vapenado that the gasket is to seal the vapor path from the inside and a bit of variance in where it lines up against the outside edge of the lid shouldn't be an issue at all.
I have no idea what is the exact root cause of air leakage into the vapor path issue. It may well be variance in gasket tolerances and/or installation. It may well be that on some units the tolerances of bottom and lid mating surfaces (how flat they are) build up of to cause a leak between specific lids/bottoms.
I do know that the design is not fit for purpose IF you need a Phd to put a frakin lid on a base unit correctly. It would appear that their tolerances and specs are too critical such that some units are getting out that have problems and need outside force to seal the vapor path from diluting outside air. But that definitely IS a problem and it definitely is FF's problem to solve.
Whatever the case, while this vaporizer has been long and eagerly awaited and I fully understand owners excitement over their new vapes that are working correctly, everybody needs to quit blaming the users for air leaks and put the blame where it belongs....with FF. They need to make people like Reggie Watts right on this deal and they must look to their manf processes and specs and ensure that they eliminate this issue.
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Super Stinky
New Member
Well said.
I'm curious if anyone has investigated whether or not the lid issue is specific to a certain colour of lid? I'm completely guessing here, but it might be worth looking into considering they probably produce one colour batch at a time. There could be slight variances between production runs.
Just a thought.
peterloveslubey
Well-Known Member
for anyone that has one, can I ask for a picture? Really debating on which color to order...the blue looks fantastic but its a bit bright for me so debating between white, gold, or black at this point (maybe blue or red, to match a new grinder).
Too many options..
Too many options..
Totally understand this and for the most part agree but I dont think anyone here was blaming the user....people are just trying to help and figure out whats wrong. Clearly there could be some defects out there, to be honest it would be more shocking if there were none. FF does have to step up if they recognize the problem. If you are persistent I am sure they will exchange the lids. The fact that @colomarijuana had his lid exchanged and it corrected all issues tells you its a lid issue.
People have been giving pointers and tips to others because its a new device that can have a very slight learning curve. Also, the vapor is unlike vapor we have seen before. It is different from my Solo for sure. Its hard to tell you are drawing anything until you exhale because it just feels like you're breathing in cool air. So it was possible that some people were thinking they weren't getting vapor when in fact they were. Again though, there most likely is defective units out there.
colomarijuana
Active Member
Completely agree with you and that was my stance. $330 for something so sensitive is BS. Any product owner that blames a consumer for not using the product right has failed as a product owner.
My first sentence of feedback to Firefly was how much this costs and how much effort (grind, pack, draw, lid pinch) it takes to use correctly.
Honestly just talking it out over the phone with FF made me feel 100x better. The assured me I shouldn't need to use special grind, pack, or draw. They made it more dynamic to work without so much effort. The only true requirements are taking long enough draws to build up heat to produce vapor and to make sure the lid is free of debris. I've not seen FF blame anyone for the product not working as intended. I've seen that more from other FF users who like to assume I'm doing something wrong and don't know how to inhale.
Firefly really was great telling me about the specific algorithms that define each heating profile and how they dynamically change based on draw speed for different users. If you think there is an issue call them! They really are great people.
Went from filing a dispute and wanting to return my product to a very happy FF2 owner.
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Baron23
Well-Known Member
I hear you, man, and I haven't pointed fingers at anybody in particular. But I have been lurking and reading this thread for quite a while. While I'm sure "blaming the owners" was not anybody's malicious intent, I do think its very clear from reading this thread that many who have invested a money and emotion in this vape did INDEED work very hard to push this as a operator error and are somewhat defensive on the subject. I mean we really DO have some posts where the poster said that he solved his air leak problem by some sort of front to back lid installation technique.
Dude, now that's stretching it a whole lot in order to support FF2 and, in my view, throws crap on the poor guys and gals who have whistling frakin air leaks and are just trying find out what's wrong.
Seriously....this is an appliance, for heaven's sake, and not an experiment in advanced physics. If there is anything about the design that requires some esoteric assembly technique by the operators, then that design is deficient.
Sorry, but you should be able to give this vaporizer to a 18 y.o. or an 88 y.o. and they should be able to operate it without having to read 71 pages in an online BBS.
Just saying, mate....we need to hold these manf to the same standard as any other appliance we would purchase and I don't see that happening yet.
Yeah, but you got a new lid under warrant, right? I don't think Reggie did
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Yep, I agree with what youre saying. I think everyone's first approach was trying to see if there was something the user was doing wrong before jumping right to a defect but at this point its clear its pretty difficult to use it incorrectly and there are some defects out there.
Reggie Watts
Well-Known Member
Nope, they're making me buy another lid when they get more in stock later this month. Whatevs. I appreciate the emotional support
@Baron23 I agree with Firefly needing to be responsible for helping people if they have defective lids(as they already have for some people) but I also wouldn't blow the FF2 issues out of proportion.
If people are really comparing grinding your material and taking a longer hit to solving theoretical physics equations, I'd say that's a bit of a stretch.
I will admit I did say quite a few pages ago something like "I'm ok with getting my device a little later so that any minor kinks in manufacturing are sorted out before I get mine."
This kind of thing is what I was referring to
If people are really comparing grinding your material and taking a longer hit to solving theoretical physics equations, I'd say that's a bit of a stretch.
I will admit I did say quite a few pages ago something like "I'm ok with getting my device a little later so that any minor kinks in manufacturing are sorted out before I get mine."
This kind of thing is what I was referring to
Baron23
Well-Known Member
Nope, they're making me buy another lid when they get more in stock later this month. Whatevs. I appreciate the emotional support
Yeah, well....that's exactly the kind of "not my fault" crap I'm talking about with FF. They need to make this right going forward and to people they already screwed.
purplenurple24
Well-Known Member
I thought they offered you the option to send yours in for testing? Did they decide not to do that, or was that your choice? I'm still not convinced mine is good, but I'm also not convinced that my technique is good.Nope, they're making me buy another lid when they get more in stock later this month. Whatevs. I appreciate the emotional support
Firefly's got me questioning myself so they better be right....
Honestly, I agree with you, but I can also understand Firefly being hesitant to replace every claim they get. My biggest problem with this situation is that they offered very little troubleshooting support to me via email. @colomarijuana had better luck using the phone, which is good, but I think he was also one of (if not) the first people with this issue.
If they are confident enough in their product to tell people that their technique is wrong, then they need to have an all-encompassing video/tutorial teaching people the proper way to operate these things.
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Reggie Watts
Well-Known Member
I decided not to send it in for "testing" because I want to have two lids in my possession at the same time, so I can compare them myself. And I suspect that FF would just tell me nothing is wrong again, which would be a waste of time.
A similar thing happened with my Mighty cooling units, but that was much easier to handle dealing with Storz and Bickel. Within 12 hours of sending them an email, they had already sent me a new CU free of charge (and free 2-day shipping). A Mighty CU is $25, while a FF2 lid is $40, but still.
Did you try sealing the bowl with something to test for a leak?
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