The Firefly 2 vaporizer

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mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
To me, that means the draw is more restricted, which would be very disappointing if true. Do you feel the draw is more restricted than the original Firefly?

No. It's about the same, and frankly, it's not more restricted than the P2. (I like the P2. But honestly, any P2 comparisons with FF2 are laughable. One is a Rolls Royce. One is a Honda. Both get you there....but not in the same style.)

Draw is still restricted but you won't be bothered by it....it works really well. The extra airflow in the plate has several advantages.

More later today. Much more. I promise. :)
 

darkrom

Great Scott!
The draw being "restrictive" is what makes the firefly work. If you pull air too fast it'll throw the temperature calculations way off.

Mitch gimmie. Gimmie gimmie. I want one now. I'm using my firefly 1 in anticipation again. My mighty is shaking in its boots because it knows between the Zion and the ff2 its going to be out of my rotation. Back to convection or bust.
 

marduk

daydreamer
The draw being "restrictive" is what makes the firefly work. If you pull air too fast it'll throw the temperature calculations way off.

I have a Firefly 1 so I know there is a certain amount of restriction and it doesn't bother me. I just wouldn't want it to be more restricted than it is now, which is what the guy on reddit seemed to be saying.
 
marduk,

HellsWindStaff

Dharma Initiate
Pretty excited. I didn't get a lot of use out of mine the last few months, so I recently sold it. It for sure had the best taste among any of my portables, just wasn't that "portable" with the shoddy battery life.

I also let the lid gunk up, and it was very hard to make pristine. Would be nice for a lid you could totally submerge in ISO...always read not to do that with the OG as it would screw up the seal with that material.

Looking forward to more info :)
 
HellsWindStaff,
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mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
Sorry for the delay in pulling this together....took me longer than I thought.....

Disclaimer: This info is based on 48 hours of usage with a prototype of the FF2. It's not a finished product, it has a few known issues, and though it's apparently very close to the final product, they are still making last-minute tweaks...so it's possible some things will change in the final released product. But this will give you a detailed view of the features and how they compare to FF1, FWIW....

What's the same vs FF1:
  • On-demand convection
  • Swappable battery
  • Great natural flavor
  • Sleek, gorgeous look
  • Entire vapor path still exposed; the metal surface on the inside is nearly identical, as is the little airpath slot at the end.
  • Orange glow
What's changed:
  • Dimensions and weight. It's 35% smaller and less than half the old weight (135 grams vs. 275 grams). It reads taller than FF1, because its height is the same as the 1 but has a smaller width and length. (Pictures would help, but I've been asked to refrain from sharing any at this point.) It really feels much, much smaller, mostly because of the weight. I put it in my pocket when I first unboxed it, to see how it would feel....it's pretty unobtrusive. It doesn't rival say the Pax2 for stealth, but it's way stealthier than the FF1.
  • Overall look: the front grills are gone, replaced by two deep grooves that reveal the curved outlines of the glass bowl. (You can see the bowl glow from the grooves, but overall the FF2 glows less than the 1...more on that in a minute.) The lid is the only bit that has color...the rest is silver, at least this one is. (The lid insert on this one is black.)
  • The lid: wow, what an improvement. Made of glass, with a mirror reflective finish on the back so it doesn't read like glass. There's still a silicon seal, but it's thinner. There are no separate vapor channels...it's just one big channel. No port assembly (there's still a round window, it's the one part without the reflective backing). No o-ring to make your life miserable. No little vapor grooves that are the hardest part to clean of the FF1. (I was very excited by this!:lol:) It takes seconds to clean it. I wiped it with ISO gently, twice, and was done in 30....the section inside the seal is just one smooth surface. The top of the lid is a colored metal insert with the graphical FF logo (no words). It will come in five colors...black, silver, white, gold...and maybe red? I stopped listening when he said GOLD. (Take my credit card number now for the gold, please. :p) It's still magnetized, but it's way lighter, and the seal it makes is strong enough to work, but it comes off really easily. (The improvements in the lid, as mundane as they might sound, make a huge difference.)
  • Mouthpiece: It's removable (this one's for you, EDA, wherever you are! :lol:). It's safe plastic. It contains a teeny metal screen that catches debris. (I have yet to taste a spec of anything other than vapor.) It's actually surprising how much stuff it catches.
  • The bowl: Still a glass bowl with a steel plate. But in a major improvement, the plate has a lot more holes that are much smaller. This increases airflow, but does something even more desirable to an FF owner....it eliminates the need for a screen. Just to emphasize: no screens, other than the mouthpiece. NONE. Can I get a hallelujah?? :lol::lol:
  • Control buttons: on/off toggle is gone. Two heat-sensitive side buttons control the operation and are configurable via the app (more on that below). The left reveals the heat level when tapped three times...the right reveals the battery level.
  • App control: app works on droid and iOS. It's technically not necessary for use...it changes the heat level (there are six, from LOW to CONCENTRATES), allows you to configure side buttons (either or both to heat), and reveals battery level.
  • Battery life: apparently doubled over the 770s. It's highly variable though, and ambient temps play a role here. In any case battery life is greatly increased over the FF1...it apparently delivers more heat with less power, which is why it glows less often once it's warmed up. The battery looks the same, except it has a little pry tab to aid in removal. (Put away your tape Stu! :p)
  • Charger: two contacts on the bottom of the FF rest on a cradle that charges via USB.

Operation: The bottom line here is that FF2 works much, much better, and easier, than FF1. There is virtually no learning curve. Unlike FF1, you could hand this to your not-vaping-savvy friend and they could touch the buttons and get huge hits. Or any size hits you want....consistently. (In fact, that may be the biggest wow factor of FF2...how freaking consistently it pulls amazing vapor.) Details...

  • App control: The app, which runs on droid and iOS, allows you to change temp profile, and while I think FF may have envisioned this as something you'd set and leave for a whole bowl, or longer, I found it really useful to step up during the bowl. I like starting on Medium and finishing on High. I'm getting something like 90% extraction this way. Yes, the FF2 can run much hotter than FF1, but you have all the control. I've never experienced combustion (yet) on High, which supposedly tops out at 420F. (I didn't dare move up to Concentrates with flowers ...) They seem to be thinking Med/High is a good default setting for folks, and for sure, you start on Med/High and your first hits will be very large clouds. I find no need for a top screen because the High setting achieves near-complete extraction.
  • Controls: works much the same way as FF1, but it's a bit streamlined. Touch one or both side button(s) depending on your config. The light flashes green, and when it's a solid green, you hit. Bam, right off the bat, great hits. No real technique or coaxing necessary. The draw is restricted but not in an unpleasant way....(nothing like, say, the Solo...) Unless you let it cool entirely, it stays in GO mode, so when you touch again, you get the solid green. The more you use it, the less glow you see as the device gets warmer. And...that's pretty much it. Like FF1 there's a 30 second shut off. I've yet to get anywhere near it!
  • Doesn't get hot as easily: It gets warm, after aggressive use. It can get hot, but it takes work. They've upped the heat and maximized performance but use less power to do it, somehow. There's something powerfully efficient going on here, but of course it's way above my head! :hmm:
  • You still have to stir: If you pack densely, which I like to, you need to stir. But, I got way better results with loose packing than I do with FF1. So you can throw a small amount in, let it fly around, and, especially on High, get very serious extraction happening. No stirring necessary in that case. But pack tight and hit hard, and you'll get the usual convection unevenness, and charring, so you gotta stir.
  • Flavor: outstanding, as you'd expect. Natural and revealing of the true taste of each strain. Though it's worth noting that it's a tad less cool than FF1 for some reason. It's not a major factor, but it feels slightly warmer. Slightly.
Overall: smaller, lighter, more stealth, more features, more consistent vapor, easier to clean, easier to use, little/no learning curve, more flexibility, much broader temp range, more control, better extraction, same great flavor. In many ways it seems like FF2 is more like the FF3...it's hard to believe so many new features got packed into one generational iteration of the device. (This is very smart on FF's part...a big danger in this biz is how quickly the technology changes. The two year wait between versions made me a bit nervous that FF could give us something that's already feeling a little dated, but instead they skated to where they knew the puck was going...assuming the finished product is very close to this prototype, and the few remaining issues are dealt with before production, the FF2 is more revolution than evolution. :nod:) I am flat-out amazed how well it works...they kept all the good parts of the FF, and fixed all of the major flaws. (The one unknown is reliability, and we won't know about that until months after production.)

Sorry for so much detail but I know FF Nation wants information. :lol: I'm sure I forgot something that's important to someone, so ask me if I left something out. Hopefully I can find out the answer, or already know it (but forgot I knew it. :p) Now, back to waiting...(no, there's no release date yet...)
 
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mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are

Good ideas live on, right? ;)

How many hits per battery would you estimate you get. Can I take it out with me for a day skiing with the need for extra batteries in my pocket?

Little tricky to estimate....this prototype has a few little bugs, one of them relating to the battery....the indicator isn't consistent. So I haven't been sure of where the battery is, all the time, until I get the red flashing light. Based on my early use I was getting maybe four fully packed bowls on a full charge. This would be something like 80 hits. I think this is consistent with what the FF guys told me they were getting. (I would think that's plenty for your ski day, but remember that cold temps negatively affect performance. If I were going to be outside in winter I might throttle expectations down like 20-30%.)

Also what about a full but loose pack would I need to stir then?

No....as long as there's room for the herb to fly around, or be shaken, you won't need to stir. You just need to expose all of the material to the airflow during the course of the bowl. Stirring is really only necessary when you pack tight....and again I got way better vapor from a loose pack than I've ever achieved with the FF1.

Thanks @mitchgo61 I'm sold. I want one. :ko:

Me too, my friend. I wasn't kidding...they can have my Amex number right now for one of the gold models. I won't even ask about the price. :p
 

Derrrpp

For the world is hollow and I have touched the sky
Yep...

shut-up-and-take-my-money_o_202409.jpg


Thanks for the details @mitchgo61!
 

mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
That was a wild write up. I wonder what the price point is gonna be on this. But I have to say having temperature settings is amazing and the reason as to why I did not like the FF1 as it was lacking temperature settings.

Thanks. It's been kind of a wild ride! :p I have no idea what the price will be. We could probably speculate on a range but it's early days yet.

The temp profiles are really cool, really easy to use, and work quite nicely. I notice a fairly dramatic difference between Medium and High.
 

namasteIII

Well-Known Member
Thanks for answering my questions. Battery sounds suitable for my needs. I know the batteries are replaceable but that's not excuse for bad battery life. I like to know I can take it for an outing and be fine on one battery which it seems like I can. Little worried about the app for temperature selections I may be in the minority but I don't want my vape connected with my phone. So long as it's quick and convenient to change temps I'm sure I'll live. I've never had or used a Firefly but seeing the way it works I don't think you need to change temps Mid session like you have to with something like the Solo. I'm getting pretty excited for this, I knew I wanted my next vape to be instant on convection and If this lives up to or dare I say surpasses they way you've described than it may be very close to prefect for what I look for in a vape. Hope we will here some official news soon and some pictures would be nice. Either way thanks for the report, looking froward to hear for you a lot in these next few days so I can get even more excited.

(you should consider doing a Reddit AMA or something of that nature, If your up for it I'm sure people would be thrilled to see more of what you have to say.)
 

marduk

daydreamer
  • Mouthpiece: It's removable (this one's for you, EDA, wherever you are! :lol:). It's safe plastic. It contains a teeny metal screen that catches debris. (I have yet to taste a spec of anything other than vapor.) It's actually surprising how much stuff it catches.
...
  • Charger: two contacts on the bottom of the FF rest on a cradle that charges via USB.

Thanks for the detailed rundown!

Is the mouthpiece the same shape as the FF1 mp, or is it round now?

Re the USB cradle charging with two body contacts... I'm probably in the minority here, but I prefer to keep things more minimal... since they're already using USB, I would much rather they use a simple USB Type-C connector on the FF2 itself for charging. USB Type-C is the future! :)
 

mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
Thanks for answering my questions. Battery sounds suitable for my needs. I know the batteries are replaceable but that's not excuse for bad battery life. I like to know I can take it for an outing and be fine on one battery which it seems like I can. Little worried about the app for temperature selections I may be in the minority but I don't want my vape connected with my phone. So long as it's quick and convenient to change temps I'm sure I'll live. I've never had or used a Firefly but seeing the way it works I don't think you need to change temps Mid session like you have to with something like the Solo.

I know what you mean, and I think the whole phone app thing can be a plus or a minus depending on a number of factors. (For me, I often see "extra features" as "more things that can go wrong" but that's the neurotic Jew in me. :lol: But simplicity definitely has its advantages.) I really think you'd be fine leaving it on Med High for a day or so, or maybe indefinitely. You can get at least like 85% extraction at that level, and the early hits can be large but nothing overwhelming. (It's not like, say, accidentally leaving your Nano on 10 when you hit a fresh load....) If I weren't trying to get every last bit, and I were out and about, I'd be fine with Medium High for the duration. It basically covers at least the full temp spectrum of the original FF.
Is the mouthpiece the same shape as the FF1 mp, or is it round now?

Same basic shape, although I think there's already another version of the mouthpiece that post-dates the one I'm using...but it would have to be the same shape in order to fit into the body.

I'm probably in the minority here, but I prefer to keep things more minimal... since they're already using USB, I would much rather they use a simple USB Type-C connector on the FF2 itself for charging. USB Type-C is the future! :)

I agree, we have USB blocks on every flat surface in our house. :lol:
 

namasteIII

Well-Known Member
Same basic shape, although I think there's already another version of the mouthpiece that post-dates the one I'm using...but it would have to be the same shape in order to fit into the body.

Does that mean we won't see either 1st or 3rd party water pipe adapter mouthpieces that attach directly to the unit?
 
namasteIII,

HD Springer

Well-Known Member
Man I'm glad they are going with multiple heat settings. I am a little disappointed that they didn't go with 650's battery's. Very cheap and easy to get a hold of out and about. Not to mention that they can't be beat as far as performance goes.IMO
My only other worry I guess is that the lid being made out of glass and taking a drop(like my ff1 has multiple times)and still being able to be used.
 

darkrom

Great Scott!
@mitchgo61 I'll be right there with you. Gold FF2? Insta pre-order. Don't care how broke I am after everything I've read, thats what credit cards are for.

I know batteries are variable, but with that in mind how many bowls do YOU get with your personal technique and variables per battery? I just need to know how many I need to buy haha.


USB-C would have been great, BUT it would still need removable batteries. I can't stand internal batteries anymore unless its REALLY robust like the mighty 10-12 bowls or so per charge. Anything less and it just causes stress, just in case.
 

namasteIII

Well-Known Member
@mitchgo61 I can't stand internal batteries anymore unless its REALLY robust like the mighty 10-12 bowls or so per charge. Anything less and it just causes stress, just in case.

Even still internal batteries have life expectancy, it's a pain in the butt to send your beloved vape for up to 2 weeks to get new batteries, not to mention the cost of such a procedure. A vape that comes out in this day and age should have replaceable batteries plain and simple.
 

mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
My only other worry I guess is that the lid being made out of glass and taking a drop(like my ff1 has multiple times)and still being able to be used.

No worries. It's not fragile at all. Me and glass do not get along, and I was a little worried when the "g" word was mentioned. But the glass piece sits in a metal frame (with a round hole for the "port window") and the metal colored insert sits on the other side of that frame, and the assembly is super-strong from what I can tell. I don't think the lid is going to break, or even scratch, very easily.

@mitchgo61
I know batteries are variable, but with that in mind how many bowls do YOU get with your personal technique and variables per battery? I just need to know how many I need to buy haha..

I think I'm reliably getting three full bowls, maybe 60 hits, before getting a dead battery. That includes quite a few on HIGH setting, which is probably draining a little more power...some of my hits have been pretty aggressive, though always short of the 30 seconds.

I apologize for my inability to accurately quantify "hits per charge"....I'm going to try and do a better job of counting and see if I get consistent results.
 

darkrom

Great Scott!
I'm getting 2-3 bowls on my 770. Not doubling it for me :/ I'll probably need a stockpile just like I have with FF1.
 
darkrom,

mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
I'm getting 2-3 bowls on my 770. Not doubling it for me :/ I'll probably need a stockpile just like I have with FF1.

Right, me too. To be clear it's supposed to double or nearly double the 770s, and again I'm living with an unfinished product, in a house we don't keep all that warm....basically I'm loathe to come to any real conclusions about the battery, yet, and I take the FF guys at their word that they are getting something like 2X the 770 life...but that doesn't mean it's a bad idea to have extra batteries either. :p
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
Also @mitchgo61 you did say 60ish hits, meaning more than the usual 6-8 hits per bowl thanks to temp controls? Or I guess shorter hits, but 20 hits a bowl is damn good imo. So many variables that's always a test later type thing ;)

Glad you got a hold of this thing finally, early too, so you can give us the dirt :brow: For the most part dig that they kept what works and added more, streamlining, even with so so batteries, you get two in the box which is nice (could retail $300 ofcourse though lol). I also don't like the sound of that dock thing, more cumbersome to carry than a charger cord? The old one was fine to me... But i take it still no use while charging? And they give two batts but still have to charge both in the FF without buying a separate charger?

Also not thrilled about needing the app, agreed temp stepping during a bowl may not necessarily be needed though it is usually quite fun, but with only a few settings anyway (I guess they can be updated later) why not work it into the two buttons? Maybe they can work that out, I do like that you can tweak them a bit, and a battery indicator will be great on the device, but temp selection in the device would be much better imo if they still can...

Oh and how about the low setting? Very curious as a 360 limitation on a Firefly sounds pretty damn amazing... What's it like? Especially with a full tight bowl? I would imagine crazy taste and still cloudy no? Also excited about medium 380, I like to stay low a lot and in a vape like this it sounds pretty wonderful.
 

mitchgo61

I go where the thrills are
Also @mitchgo61 you did say 60ish hits, meaning more than the usual 6-8 hits per bowl thanks to temp controls? Or I guess shorter hits, but 20 hits a bowl is damn good imo. So many variables that's always a test later type thing ;).

These are pretty packed bowls, so I'm used to getting 20 ish hits from an FF bowl. Pretty long-ish hits too...

Also @mitchgo61
Glad you got a hold of this thing finally, early too, so you can give us the dirt :brow: For the most part dig that they kept what works and added more, streamlining, even with so so batteries, you get two in the box which is nice (could retail $300 ofcourse though lol). I also don't like the sound of that dock thing, more cumbersome to carry than a charger cord? The old one was fine to me... But i take it still no use while charging? And they give two batts but still have to charge both in the FF without buying a separate charger?.

The dock I have is not the final product, or even the final prototype of the dock, apparently. Not really sure exactly what the most recent version looks like. This one is a little fussy. ;) Still can't use while charging (given it rests on contacts, it's pretty much impossible anyway!). I don't think there's a plan to include two batteries, that I'm aware of. You can probably charge these batteries in the old external charger...I should try that. :uhoh:

Also @mitchgo61

Also not thrilled about needing the app, agreed temp stepping during a bowl may not necessarily be needed though it is usually quite fun, but with only a few settings anyway (I guess they can be updated later) why not work it into the two buttons? Maybe they can work that out, I do like that you can tweak them a bit, and a battery indicator will be great on the device, but temp selection in the device would be much better imo if they still can...

Oh and how about the low setting? Very curious as a 360 limitation on a Firefly sounds pretty damn amazing... What's it like? Especially with a full tight bowl? I would imagine crazy taste and still cloudy no? Also excited about medium 380, I like to stay low a lot and in a vape like this it sounds pretty wonderful.

I really think there's a couple settings you could leave it on and not have to worry about the app. I achieved pretty dark abv on Med-High. I haven't tried the Low yet...I've used the Med-Low, and you get fairly thick hits even at that setting, but they taper really quickly. Not sure I'd wanna leave it below Med-High for a full session.
 

Shit Snacks

Milaana. Lana. LANA. LANAAAA! (TM2/TP80/BAK/FW9)
These are pretty packed bowls, so I'm used to getting 20 ish hits from an FF bowl. Pretty long-ish hits too...



The dock I have is not the final product, or even the final prototype of the dock, apparently. Not really sure exactly what the most recent version looks like. This one is a little fussy. ;) Still can't use while charging (given it rests on contacts, it's pretty much impossible anyway!). I don't think there's a plan to include two batteries, that I'm aware of. You can probably charge these batteries in the old external charger...I should try that. :uhoh:



I really think there's a couple settings you could leave it on and not have to worry about the app. I achieved pretty dark abv on Med-High. I haven't tried the Low yet...I've used the Med-Low, and you get fairly thick hits even at that setting, but they taper really quickly. Not sure I'd wanna leave it below Med-High for a full session.

Yeah I was doing packed course grind bowls and getting max maybe 10 hits long slow draws on a nice moist herb. Never every got 20 hits in any type of bowl that I can recall...

My first seemed to be set to a lower more 380ish temp that I loved, even avb without stirring, sounds like fun here, I don't find that to be a low temp at all but the perfect medium personallly. Although that was with conduction, not used to precise temp control with convection much at all actually... But setting a limit seems like a good way to do it (kinda similar to Zion voltage knob i guess).

Can't believe you have tried the low setting yet though man, pretend this is a finger wagging and not waving lol :wave: I would love it actually if you would try to temp step a load 5 hits each too. But with pure convection usually even 360 could go really far. I do often like to keep my avb lighter but well extracted so I would enjoy these two sub400 temp limits me thinks...

But yeah I'm sure plenty will change. I'm sure they are working on an ac power adapter accesory with all these other improvements. Have you been using one button as usual, or trying two? Miss the power switch at all? I guess no gap between screen and glass bowl now right? That'll be nice and removable mouthpiece could mean water adapters... This certainly seems like a right proper sequel doesn't it? Thanks man :tup:
 
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Mr. Me2

Well-Known Member
Does that mean we won't see either 1st or 3rd party water pipe adapter mouthpieces that attach directly to the unit?
I'll bet @Ratchett can come up with something...

@mitchgo61 - I'm guessing, but can you confirm that there is no cooking in the oven in between pulls? Just confirming this is true on demand (like the ff1) and not a session vape.

Sounds like there may be an insect battle: firefly v. grasshopper.
 
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